Dtilt Miscellany (pics included)

[ZoSo]

I've mentioned this a few times to different people, but I haven't really carefully explained it, so I decided to make a thread about it.

Keep in mind that the only way I have of capturing these images is photographing the TV screen with a digital camera, so the quality isn't Magus level, but they get the point across, I think.

Basically I'm showing what Marth's dtilt looks like against Sheik's shield, then what happens when Marth holds away while Sheik grabs on the soonest possible frame.

This one is just to show the spacing. I don't know what the minimum safe range is. Jumping forward a bit...

This is the final frame of Sheik's shield stun.

This is the frame before Sheik's grab hits. I wonder what will happen...?

HEY WHERE'D YOU GO?

Same image as above with hitboxes/hurtboxes shown. As you can see, Marth could start the dtilt even closer and still be safe.

Like I said, this demonstration assumes perfect timing on Sheik's part and a simple directional input on Marth's part. It's extremely practical and easy to do.

This works even better against characters with smaller grabs (Fox, Falco, Peach).

I hope somebody can find some utility in this.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Wow this looks amazing...So you just hold away? What if you're spaced even closer?

 

[Kyu Puff]

When do you hold away, and why does it work?

 

[ZoSo]

Yes, just hold away.

If you're too close, it's possible to get shield grabbed regardless of anything, but players aren't perfect, so you can try to buffer a spot dodge or dash away if you're confident in your timing.

Dylan: You can start holding away at any point in the dtilt animation. It works because holding away activates Marth's turning around animation exactly on the dtilt's IASA frame, which causes Marth's hurtbox to shift in a very unusual way, as you can see from the pics.

 

[Niko45]

As close as you are, it looks like you'd have to be completely on top of each other to get grabbed. So you just hold away as soon as you dtilt, then? Gonna have to play with this.

Edit: So in that 4th picture, is Marth in the midst of turning around in that shot?

 

[ZoSo]

As close as you are, it looks like you'd have to be completely on top of each other to get grabbed. So you just hold away as soon as you dtilt, then?

Yes and yes.

So in that 4th picture, is Marth in the midst of turning around in that shot?

That's the first frame of his turning around animation.

Something else to consider: If you dash cancel into a dtilt, Marth will slide forward a bit during the dtilt animation, which could ruin your spacing. Just keep that in mind.

 

[otg]

Good **** dave.

 

[ArcNatural]

Nice stuff Dave. Gotta spread the word.

 

[booshk]

very nice. will try this out.

 

[Uck]

Couldn't I dtilt then away to a grab even an uptilt as soon as they miss there grab? >.> What will you call this technique

 

[#HBC | Mac]

dtiltin g

 

[ZoSo]

Couldn't I dtilt then away to a grab even an uptilt as soon as they miss there grab? >.> What will you call this technique

You can do pretty much anything to them after their grab whiffs. Grabbing is probably the best option unless they're at dumb high percent or something. I'm not gonna give this "technique" a name because that would be dumb.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Are you sure it's not called grab contortion parry interrupted d-tilt?

 

[Cort]

I think we should call this "fire crotching"

 

[ZoSo]

I'm cool with that.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

dtilt pivot fsmash tipper

 

[ChivalRuse]

Marth's dtilt is so stupid.

 

[Dart!]

i'd like to call it gay canceling, because shield grabbing with sheik is ******** good.

 

[ZoSo]

Also good.

 

[P. O. F.]

This is nice.

Video to show this in action possibly so we can awe? cry? laugh? lol

 

[Rappster]

I think we should call this "fire crotching"

nah, man.
fire crotch is what my cousin got from the hooker in mexico

 

[Dart!]

This is nice.

Video to show this in action possibly so we can awe? cry? laugh? lol

AustinRC did it alot in a recent tournament i'll try to find it. i believe he won that same tourney too

 

[Diatenshi]

so wait.... marth just got gayer? i approve!!!!

 

[Niko45]

Got to test this out on a sheik the other day and this is truly amazing. Particularly with sheik on the edge you just wait for the waveland up and either dtilt her or if she manages to shield it you just react with this technique and especially under the pressure of being near the ledge sheik loves to try to grab. This covers the entire near-ledge area without being at risk of ledge hop fair or up B explosion. This honestly feels like a major breakthrough in the sheik matchup because from the ledge it leaves them no options but to get hit by dtilt or basically expect this.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

sheik can invincible waveland->ftilt fyi

if marth had an invincible waveland i'd be #1 in the world.

 

[FluxWolf]

This is so cool, dtilt is so good!

I usually would never try to grab a Marth out of dtilt as sheik tho.. just because of the various options for iasa frames in the first place, honestly the best thing for sheik to do is wd back oos and wait to see what they do and punish.. or do a quick fading nair on them.. this games not really about looking at the frames and punishing those lol if you want to be consistent at least.

but ****, if this is the only option for you because you screwed up or something..

I kind of see this as a worse version of falcos sheild pressure technique where he late dairs your sheild -> shine -> fading nair/dair -> fsmash or grab their missed grab that you baited. However what I've seen m2k do to trump this technique was simply wd oos and grab them (not falling for their trick)

edit: it sounds like im ****ting on this technique but im not this is craaaazy........., just trying to figure out any holes it may have early on

 

[#HBC | Mac]

how the hell do yur pronounce miscellany

its been bugging me for a while now

 

[ZoSo]

honestly the best thing for sheik to do is wd back oos and wait to see what they do and punish.. or do a quick fading nair on them..

That's kind of the point. Once they're afraid to grab, you can observe the ways in which they try to counter the dtilt and respond accordingly.

this games not really about looking at the frames and punishing those lol if you want to be consistent at least.

I agree, but it's not like this requires incredibly strict inputs. Like I said, it's extremely easy to replicate.

Yedi: Miss—Uh—Laney

 

[Metal Reeper]

So don't you have to use Dtilt's IASA's to get out of the way in time?

 

[Niko45]

Just smack the other direction as soon as you realize ur dtilting a shield. It's an extremely reasonable window.

 

[FluxWolf]

i like your way of thinking zoso, i need lots of work on my mindgames so this is something i can try to use to help read my opponents.. plus yea i tried this and theres really no down side to doing it when you're in that position, and all u have to do is hold back lol so why not?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

you playing marth now flux?

 

[FluxWolf]

yeah.. and falco a bit

i realized that i wasnt doing the fundamentals correctly, and I think marth is a good teacher of such. gotta beat out those bad fox habitss lol

 

[#HBC | Mac]

daveee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqTS4Gsgi30#t=0m31s

 

[ZoSo]

Yeah, I just decided it was easier to play Sheik.

 

[Strong Badam]

invincible waveland wat.

 

[Cosmo!]

wow this is pretty cool zoso

 

[KirbyKaze]

firecrotch --> f-smash!?

 

[Tee ay eye]

this works on other chars, right?

 

[ZoSo]

It sure does. It almost works too well against some, because you still avoid the grab up until the range where the weaker hitbox of your dtilt hits their shield, which results in less shieldstun and them being able to theoretically grab you no matter what.