Guide Drastic Improvement

[ShroudedOne]

I'm not sure if you explain exactly how to be innovative/creative well enough. You mentioned things that are guaranteed, and then everything below that line, but I think a section on how to incorporate fresh ideas into your game would be a nice idea.

 

[Sinji]

I think confidence and the will to learn from other players will cause drastic improvement.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm on vacation for the weekend. At some point in this upcoming week, I'll cover all of those topics.

 

[kevo]

I went to a tournament today and just got *****. The top players from my state were going to be there, and I was feeling pretty good about myself going in. I had some strategies and I was going to try my hardest, learn from my defeats, keep a good mindset, and hopefully at least take a few games.

After going 0-2 twice to get knocked out, I felt so bad. Not because I lost, but because of how hopelessly I lost. The opponents I fought just felt like a blur, and I didn't feel that any part of my game was going at all. I felt stuck, headless, and completely missing the few chances I did get.

It's been 10 months since I decided that I was going to elevate my game to the tournament level, but for the first time I started to wonder if I really can get there. For the past month or so, I've lost to the same people over and over again. It's frustrating, but it just makes me want to put in more work, and play more people. I'm definitely not blessed with anything, so I have no choice but to stick with it. Still, I wish that my drastic improvement comes soon.

 

[sulliman1]

kevo you're a smart guy

you may understand a lot of smash things on a conceptual level from analyzing video and reading, but you gotta play a whole lot to really integrate game knowledge to the point where it's instinctual and you don't have to stop and think about it. plenty of good players (read: all of the first generation of pros) weren't/aren't good so much because of the information they got online because there wasn't as much as there is now, they were good through empirical knowledge (an assumption but i dare you to disprove it). in fact it could be argued that smashboards/other information have somewhat of a detrimental effect on creativity because kids will copy what works and not solve problems themselves...copying is generally good as long as you comprehend why something's good and have the mindset that what you're copying has room for improvement and isn't optimal. in the moment you can't intellectualize situations, at a certain point you have to "feel" what to do due to the speed of the game and that's what is so attractive about melee to many of us, specific improvisation with a general gameplan, as opposed to brawl's more specific gameplanning and methodical execution, which appeals to a different kind of person.

gotta practice your techs so what you're thinking can translate into what your character is doing, that's the most frustrating aspect for me

i'm definitely not gonna show my face at any tournaments until i can go around even with my training partner who does go (hypocrisy with my final paragraph lol). i don't have exceptional natural talent (decent reflexes/vision, pretty un-dexterous sweaty small hands that aren't great with precise inputs...no johns), but i have a decent analytical mind, which is apparent in you too from reading your posts. so i know i'll never be the greatest since greatness requires both natural talent+hard work, i just want to not suck.

tl;dr don't give up unless there's nothing you enjoy anymore or it's not worth it from an input>output standpoint, we're the future of smash. it's accepted that you're gonna suck at whatever you do when you first start doing it, even eating (...literally babies sucking on teats...), it's just that smash has a pretty damn high learning curve, so don't worry about what people think of your gameplay, worry about what people think of your attitude. sounds like you've got a pretty good mindset which means results will eventually show, i hope this post can be that little boost to push you to the next level.

 

[Battlecow]

I went to a tournament today and just got *****. The top players from my state were going to be there, and I was feeling pretty good about myself going in. I had some strategies and I was going to try my hardest, learn from my defeats, keep a good mindset, and hopefully at least take a few games.

After going 0-2 twice to get knocked out, I felt so bad. Not because I lost, but because of how hopelessly I lost. The opponents I fought just felt like a blur, and I didn't feel that any part of my game was going at all. I felt stuck, headless, and completely missing the few chances I did get.

It's been 10 months since I decided that I was going to elevate my game to the tournament level, but for the first time I started to wonder if I really can get there. For the past month or so, I've lost to the same people over and over again. It's frustrating, but it just makes me want to put in more work, and play more people. I'm definitely not blessed with anything, so I have no choice but to stick with it. Still, I wish that my drastic improvement comes soon.

Hey, I have a protégé/buddy in Minnesota who's looking for competition... what tourneys are there? Couldn't find any MN stuff in the MW regional boards (lol).

 

[Wake]

I went to a tournament today and just got *****. The top players from my state were going to be there, and I was feeling pretty good about myself going in. I had some strategies and I was going to try my hardest, learn from my defeats, keep a good mindset, and hopefully at least take a few games.

After going 0-2 twice to get knocked out, I felt so bad. Not because I lost, but because of how hopelessly I lost. The opponents I fought just felt like a blur, and I didn't feel that any part of my game was going at all. I felt stuck, headless, and completely missing the few chances I did get.

It's been 10 months since I decided that I was going to elevate my game to the tournament level, but for the first time I started to wonder if I really can get there. For the past month or so, I've lost to the same people over and over again. It's frustrating, but it just makes me want to put in more work, and play more people. I'm definitely not blessed with anything, so I have no choice but to stick with it. Still, I wish that my drastic improvement comes soon.

Kevin don't worry! I felt the same way when I first started! Stick with it and you'll get up with the rest of us eventually!

Hey, I have a protégé/buddy in Minnesota who's looking for competition... what tourneys are there? Couldn't find any MN stuff in the MW regional boards (lol).

We do all of our stuff on this website http://z6.invisionfree.com/MNSmash/index.php?act=idx

 

[Divinokage]

I went to a tournament today and just got *****. The top players from my state were going to be there, and I was feeling pretty good about myself going in. I had some strategies and I was going to try my hardest, learn from my defeats, keep a good mindset, and hopefully at least take a few games.

After going 0-2 twice to get knocked out, I felt so bad. Not because I lost, but because of how hopelessly I lost. The opponents I fought just felt like a blur, and I didn't feel that any part of my game was going at all. I felt stuck, headless, and completely missing the few chances I did get.

It's been 10 months since I decided that I was going to elevate my game to the tournament level, but for the first time I started to wonder if I really can get there. For the past month or so, I've lost to the same people over and over again. It's frustrating, but it just makes me want to put in more work, and play more people. I'm definitely not blessed with anything, so I have no choice but to stick with it. Still, I wish that my drastic improvement comes soon.

Just think of it this way, it took me at least 30 tournaments of getting 17-25th all the time before actually starting to break through higher rankings. Count that as about a few years. =P But you cannot give up, find solutions to every problem.

 

[kevo]

Hey, I have a protégé/buddy in Minnesota who's looking for competition... what tourneys are there? Couldn't find any MN stuff in the MW regional boards (lol).

Send him my way, I could use someone else to play on a regular basis

 

[Battlecow]

He's not in Minneapolis, so I doubt it'd work out

But yeah, thanks for the forum link, I'll pass it on.

 

[Sethlon]

Somehow I haven't already subscribed to this. Lets fix that.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

Brilliant guide! It gave me a lot of very useful new ideas and angles of how to improve my game! This guide is not only good for Melee, but for Smash in general. Thank you very much for this amazing guide!

Subscribed, Tweeted, and shared in Facebook!

 

[Deleted member]

added counterpicking and one of the forbidden arts. leave feedback as per usual.

i'd add a section on style, but honestly any deviation from optimal play is just... suboptimal. I don't see a point.

 

[BigD!!!]

recent koreandj vs thorn gf has a beautiful second sweetspot example

azen's 3 stock comeback has an airdodge example as well

both marths though

i agree that you cant really give someone a section on style, the fact that people are asking for clarification on style and/or specific ways to innovate is a testament to the dependency we all have on emulation of other players

 

[Sinji]

Brawl somewhat helps you play more methodical

 

[choknater]

brawl definitely helped my patience game a lot

usually style just comes from intuitive decision making, and also the most enjoyable way of playing to each specific person

i like very fast dashes, high damage off grabs, and safe ASSISTS LOL

(you'd be surprised how similar my ice climbers are to strider + doom in mvc2)

and i usually have secondaries based on projectiles

 

[ShroudedOne]

i agree that you cant really give someone a section on style, the fact that people are asking for clarification on style and/or specific ways to innovate is a testament to the dependency we all have on emulation of other players

Well, asking someone on how to innovate (how to get thinking about new things, how to expand their views) is different than copying innovative things (or emulating these things).

 

[Divinokage]

What if I said that my style is a combination of everything I've seen and experienced in melee based off my memory? Does that make sense?

 

[Sinji]

learning patiences and reacting to situations

 

[Deleted member]

What if I said that my style is a combination of everything I've seen and experienced in melee based off my memory? Does that make sense?

No, and you'd be wrong anyway. If you were some chimera of skills, you'd have retained both the good and the bad and you'd be a no-name player. Clearly somewhere in there you decided to keep the better material and the stuff that works best, which is what this is all about.

 

[Keblerelf]

recent koreandj vs thorn gf has a beautiful second sweetspot example

Do you mean something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlFBvJAKRTY&feature=youtu.be#t=27m26s

 

[EthereaL]

Hm...

Why did you not go into technical skill underneath the heading "Back to the Basics", Umbreon?

 

[BigD!!!]

yeah keebler, that **** was tight

 

[Keblerelf]

But isn't that kind of obvious? How would that be filed under "forbidden techniques"? I mean, if someone is on the edge, you NEED to shoot past him to get back.

Or is the point being made that you should recover so you barely land?

 

[BigD!!!]

the point is to recover in such a way that they have trouble telling if youre gonna be on the stage or not

they can ledgehop and risk giving up the ledge, or roll and not cover the landing on the stage

its just mixing up your recovery in a way that makes it difficult for the person to cover, instead of easy

 

[Deleted member]

Hm...

Why did you not go into technical skill underneath the heading "Back to the Basics", Umbreon?

Technical Ability should never really be an ability. It should be a constant, a non-variable I suppose. You should always do exactly whatever it is that you want to do. Otherwise, why are you doing it? I can tell the reader "make sure you can do this" but if they can't/don't then nothing I can type will help them execute it.

Raw technical details are best left to grinding out test runs of experimental ideas and are largely micro in nature. I prefer a macro approach to the game, where anyone that learns from me can do the micro work on their own and do it correctly without my help on their own time.

I'll start working on this again soon. If there are any questions or requests I'll gladly answer or include them.

 

[EthereaL]

Technical Ability should never really be an ability. It should be a constant, a non-variable I suppose. You should always do exactly whatever it is that you want to do. Otherwise, why are you doing it? I can tell the reader "make sure you can do this" but if they can't/don't then nothing I can type will help them execute it.

I prefer a macro approach to the game, where anyone that learns from me can do the micro work on their own and do it correctly without my help on their own time.

I assumed that was why, but I wanted to be sure. I felt as if, especially considering your "forbidden techniques" section, briefly discussing the importance of technical skill would be good. So many players don't consistently FF, or consistently L-cancel, or have good platform mobility, or space properly, or, or, or...even Mango suicided several times in his recent showing against Armada (although he was playing quite spastically/had tournament pressure).

I didn't mean specific technical tricks; I simply meant as a whole.

I understand why you hadn't included it, though. I was simply checking...hm.

 

[FrootLoop]

Since you talked a bunch about pushing/maintaining advantages, could you talk more about neutral position? I have a hard time coming up with a gameplan for neutral positions. Would you say that neutral is when you are playing the player the most as opposed to playing the character?

 

[Deleted member]

Since you talked a bunch about pushing/maintaining advantages, could you talk more about neutral position? I have a hard time coming up with a gameplan for neutral positions. Would you say that neutral is when you are playing the player the most as opposed to playing the character?

yes absolutely. great idea. i'll work on it tomorrow evening at some point. i'll have to think on it a bit.

 

[Jasou]

That was a really great read. I must try to apply your guide to my playing. Thanks a lot.

 

[Sephy95]

This is a good thread. I'll come back to this more. Need to work on that whole emotion thing...

 

[Sinji]

Melee players hating on brawl yet brawl is what made PP the man he is today.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Well, it helped. I'm not sure how much credit you can dish out one way or another, though it did shape my thinking in a pretty big way.

@Umbreon: I'm interested in whatever you end up writing for that neutral position thing. =)

 

[Strong Badam]

Melee players hating on brawl yet brawl is what made PP the man he is today.

It's still Brawl regardless of any positive effects it has had.

 

[Johnknight1]

LOL at the stage part. That's why I try to be good and memorize the timing on every stage. While I can face players who know the game far better than me, all it takes is a good counter-pick stage to throw them off, or a small little tidbit of timing knowledge on a stage to win a match. One little detail can win a match, and learning every stage completely is a huge advantage, even in casual matches where you just play some random banned stage like Hyrule Temple, Mute City (well it is banned in most tournaments), Peach's Castle, Termania: Great Bay, etc.

You gotta make as many "advantages" for yourself as you can. He who has the least and smallest disadvantages, the most and biggest advantages, and executes all of that the best and most effectively, WINS!

 

[blindfreak9]

once you get good with one character, is it ok to try to play as another character that has an advantage over your main's weakness?

 

[Tee ay eye]

if you're fine with being a little *****

 

[blindfreak9]

What S2J said, 50% of the game is to have fun, if you hate playing the game then you will not get as good as if you liked the game

 

[Tee ay eye]

i wouldn't be satisfied with myself (read: i wouldn't enjoy myself) if i explicitly counter-picked someone for a win, provided that my main stood a legitimate chance at winning the matchup, but that's just me.

other people do it and are completely fine with it, and i won't stop them from doing what they want to do, although i honestly think that it's self-destructive in the long run if you use it as a crutch.

 

[Deleted member]

i wouldn't be satisfied with myself (read: i wouldn't enjoy myself) if i explicitly counter-picked someone for a win, provided that my main stood a legitimate chance at winning the matchup, but that's just me.

other people do it and are completely fine with it, and i won't stop them from doing what they want to do, although i honestly think that it's self-destructive in the long run if you use it as a crutch.

It's not a crutch if you're using it to win. It's either good and subsequently a legitimate strategy, or it's not and it's a jank strategy. You shouldn't evaluate things on satisfaction, you should base them on how likely they are to help you win. Hopefully, winning and satisfaction eventually are the same thing.