Guide Drastic Improvement

[Deleted member]

1 year is way too short.

I really don't think so. I agree that it takes longer to be a top player now and ~3 years seems to be normal. But I also don't know anyone that constantly pushes themselves to be amazing at it like a full time job. We're talking like 50+ hours a week, focusing on one character, playing as many talented people as possible and exchanging ideas with them. I can't see how anyone would do that for a solid year and not be at their personal best. Even the tier 1 players with 3 years of experience still largely treat smash like a hobby.

I'm going to get back to work on this now. It's been long enough.

 

[Veetaak]

I really don't think so. I agree that it takes longer to be a top player now and ~3 years seems to be normal. But I also don't know anyone that constantly pushes themselves to be amazing at it like a full time job. We're talking like 50+ hours a week, focusing on one character, playing as many talented people as possible and exchanging ideas with them. I can't see how anyone would do that for a solid year and not be at their personal best. Even the tier 1 players with 3 years of experience still largely treat smash like a hobby.

I'm going to get back to work on this now. It's been long enough.

If only melee had some kind of good online support then we could actually be able to play tons of different playstyles and whenever and how often we wanted to. Although the average smasher would probably be better and the pros even more so if this was the case. You wouldn't reach the top as fast then because of everyone having easy access to playing others in melee.

Traveling is a *****. Melee should've been created in like 2010 or something so that we could have some proper online play. Lan events would still be there for the awesome get-togethers

 

[Deleted member]

If only melee had some kind of good online support then we could actually be able to play tons of different playstyles and whenever and how often we wanted to. Although the average smasher would probably be better and the pros even more so if this was the case. You wouldn't reach the top as fast then because of everyone having easy access to playing others in melee.

Traveling is a *****. Melee should've been created in like 2010 or something so that we could have some proper online play. Lan events would still be there for the awesome get-togethers

if melee had been created in 2010 it would be **** like all of the other newer iterations of games. it's like a running trend for the last few years for competitive games to suck. consider:

melee vs brawl
mvc2 vs mvc3
guilty gear vs blazbue
pokemon

and probably many, many others that i don't have any experience with.

 

[Bones0]

if melee had been created in 2010 it would be **** like all of the other newer iterations of games. it's like a running trend for the last few years for competitive games to suck. consider:

melee vs brawl
mvc2 vs mvc3
guilty gear vs blazbue
pokemon

and probably many, many others that i don't have any experience with.

Halo 2 vs. Halo 3


I think you're missing his point though. If Melee as we know it today had been created in 2010 with good online play, players would only need a fraction of the time to get as good as they are now. I know I personally could have been where I'm at now several years ago, but I was a kid who couldn't drive and had no one near me so I never had opportunities to improve.

 

[Winston]

If only melee had some kind of good online support then we could actually be able to play tons of different playstyles and whenever and how often we wanted to. Although the average smasher would probably be better and the pros even more so if this was the case. You wouldn't reach the top as fast then because of everyone having easy access to playing others in melee.

Traveling is a *****. Melee should've been created in like 2010 or something so that we could have some proper online play. Lan events would still be there for the awesome get-togethers

Is the technology we have good enough that they can have online lag with < 2 frames of latency consistently? I don't know anything about it really, but I got the impression its not feasible even today.

 

[Veetaak]

Is the technology we have good enough that they can have online lag with < 2 frames of latency consistently? I don't know anything about it really, but I got the impression its not feasible even today.

That is true. Melee requires less lag then the games played online at this moment. Still wished we had some kind of lag free online melee.

I wouldn't mind some latency problems though because it would be worth it.

 

[Bing]

I think another thing that should be mentioned in the bad players section is how Bad players could/will eventually become good players. I remember way back when Mango would money match Ken just so he could play ken and get better, now look where he is. Not many people just step into a community as a top player. We all need to develop our game. I mean, sure, we can **** a level 9 Fox across the stage, but good luck ****** the top locals the same way

Also I can see why M2K could get better playing alone... he plays like a Robot or a computer. So Like, his perfect style is basically his tech skill, and his knowledge being so great... And I think that may be why he's slowly but surely sliding down the ranking just a bit... with that being said, he's still amazing

 

[Master WGS]

guilty gear vs blazbue

Thank you SO much. This makes me respect you even more than I already did for your excellent OP.

 

[Divinokage]

I think another thing that should be mentioned in the bad players section is how Bad players could/will eventually become good players. I remember way back when Mango would money match Ken just so he could play ken and get better, now look where he is. Not many people just step into a community as a top player. We all need to develop our game. I mean, sure, we can **** a level 9 Fox across the stage, but good luck ****** the top locals the same way

Also I can see why M2K could get better playing alone... he plays like a Robot or a computer. So Like, his perfect style is basically his tech skill, and his knowledge being so great... And I think that may be why he's slowly but surely sliding down the ranking just a bit... with that being said, he's still amazing

Actually it's been quite a while seeing a new player break out to being a great player.. Fresh blood to beat is always good.. but.. not sure if EVERYONE is capable that would be very odd if so..

 

[KirbyKaze]

I really don't think so. I agree that it takes longer to be a top player now and ~3 years seems to be normal. But I also don't know anyone that constantly pushes themselves to be amazing at it like a full time job. We're talking like 50+ hours a week, focusing on one character, playing as many talented people as possible and exchanging ideas with them. I can't see how anyone would do that for a solid year and not be at their personal best. Even the tier 1 players with 3 years of experience still largely treat smash like a hobby.

I'm going to get back to work on this now. It's been long enough.

Under those absolutely ideal amazingly perfect conditions, I can agree.

 

[Deleted member]

I updated the original post with some stuff. Give me some feedback to work with, it will give me more ideas.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

More good ****!

The only thing I'd add is how necessary innovation is. So often I see players expect to emulate their way to greatness, when in reality, just about every high level player innovated a ****-ton to get to where they are, and none of the main players of each character share the same styles. So though emulating top players is obviously a good idea, mid level players shouldn't look to videos as their only source of solving a problem. Building a unique style perfectly suited for yourself is part of becoming great; the innovators are the ones who win tournaments, not the emulators.

 

[Bones0]

To build on what Crimson is discussing, a section on style would be interesting to read. It could talk about anything from the vague archetypal styles that people use to the style changes within sets, matches, or particular situations. From there it can be taken to developing a personal style of your own to increase your effectiveness and how your style may compliment or be a result of your character.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I like the developing your own style section idea!

The thread was really good and insightful, I didn't really think about guaranteed vs dangerous and tricks like that.

Is there a way you can talk about reading opponents and becoming a smart player and adapting?

Also, how important is knowing each character's frame data as well as the CP stages?

 

[gm jack]

Going to nitpick and point out the example of a guaranteed thing is not actually that. You can ground tech Sheik's fair.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Great write-up Umbreon. I think I might try reading this every so often to make sure I do not forget something important. With melee, it is so easy to get into a methodical approach to the game. Then once you actually start using your head, plan out your moves, read your opponents habits, and other things, game play really does go up.

I think this write-up could certainly be expanded upon. Each point in itself is a good look at the game, but I cannot help but feel that the intersectionality of all of them gets ignored at times when you focus solely on one piece. For example, taking a look at rule 4 of simply playing the game. There are wrong and right ways to play the game. One example I have of this is playing someone who doesn't punish all your mistakes like someone else who is better does. It is very easy to get lulled into that methodical play of where you Dair ever approach as Falco because it works against 6 times out of 8 against the less skilled player while against the skilled player it only works like 1 time, then you drop your combo starter because they DI in ways to escape heavy follow-ups. Rule 4 falls apart unless you include 5 and 6.

 

[Winston]

Here's an easy example.

It doesn't matter that the edge guard is half the stock. The kill is guaranteed. The game simply does not offer the ability to avoid this edge guard.

Isn't this not a very good example? It seems clear to me that Darkrain could have DIed down and ground teched it after it became clear what m2k's intentions were. To me it looks like a method that trades guaranteedness for easier execution.

Useless.

They are, well, useless. There exists something better you could be doing. Your innovation might trick someone, but for the most part your opponent has some options to deal with your set-up and "that doesn't actually work". I don't want to give a video example or dwell on this one for very long. It's usually just silly stuff like Fox trying to upthrow > upair combo Luigi. They're pretty worthless really.

Why is fox trying to uthrow -> uair Luigi worthless? It's not a true combo, but I'm fairly sure that at many percents Fox can aim the uair to beat a nair attempt, forcing Luigi to either jump or get hit by it. Luigi burning his jump while still being trapped in the air above fox is fairly valuable.

 

[Deleted member]

Isn't this not a very good example? It seems clear to me that Darkrain could have DIed down and ground teched it after it became clear what m2k's intentions were. To me it looks like a method that trades guaranteedness for easier execution.

Why is fox trying to uthrow -> uair Luigi worthless? It's not a true combo, but I'm fairly sure that at many percents Fox can aim the uair to beat a nair attempt, forcing Luigi to either jump or get hit by it. Luigi burning his jump while still being trapped in the air above fox is fairly valuable.

DI down on sheik's fair wouldn't have mattered, he wasn't even close to the stage.

It's not a combo, it's not the optimal choice, and it doesn't gain you any options. Hence, "it doesn't work." It would be much better for you to ensure a way to keep Luigi in the air if you could, but Fox isn't great at that particular strategy. A much stronger strategy in that match is to look for a shine that gets him off the edge, and then to abuse his poor recovery. Play to your strengths and exploit them fully.

 

[gm jack]

Darkrain landed between every recovery. M2k landed the fairs in it's landing lag. Darkrain was DIing every fair up, while instead he could have gone to ground tech any of them.

 

[Bing]

Bah, Kage you know what Im saying. Theres very little potential for new "pros" to come out if we're not coming out to get our ***** kicked by players like you...

 

[The Star King]

If only melee had some kind of good online support then we could actually be able to play tons of different playstyles and whenever and how often we wanted to. Although the average smasher would probably be better and the pros even more so if this was the case. You wouldn't reach the top as fast then because of everyone having easy access to playing others in melee.

Traveling is a *****. Melee should've been created in like 2010 or something so that we could have some proper online play. Lan events would still be there for the awesome get-togethers

IDK about this. Smash 64 has pretty good online and the community still seems quite under-developed, or at least to me. I'm not quite sure why - maybe it's a lack of tournaments, or people not being motivated to improve with such a tiny scene, but my point is that I don't think online necessarily means the skill level will be much higher.

 

[Strong Badam]

Isn't this not a very good example? It seems clear to me that Darkrain could have DIed down and ground teched it after it became clear what m2k's intentions were. To me it looks like a method that trades guaranteedness for easier execution.

probably wouldn't have worked. darkrain was hurt too much.

 

[Veetaak]

IDK about this. Smash 64 has pretty good online and the community still seems quite under-developed, or at least to me. I'm not quite sure why - maybe it's a lack of tournaments, or people not being motivated to improve with such a tiny scene, but my point is that I don't think online necessarily means the skill level will be much higher.

I think it would be bigger if the online system was built in the game and the console. I don't know how big the 64 scene is anyways.

 

[leffen]

Thats just because you're hella lazy veetaak ;o

 

[Battlecow]

IDK about this. Smash 64 has pretty good online and the community still seems quite under-developed, or at least to me. I'm not quite sure why - maybe it's a lack of tournaments, or people not being motivated to improve with such a tiny scene, but my point is that I don't think online necessarily means the skill level will be much higher.

The skill levels are a hell of a lot higher than they would be without online- you, of all people, should know that.

Any underdevelopment that might exist exists because we have like 4 players.

 

[Veetaak]

Thats just because you're hella lazy veetaak ;o

I just h8 to travel =(

I'll start playing more again soon anyways

 

[Deleted member]

I'm almost done with this. Leave feedback so I have material to work with.

 

[Mew2King]

I disagree. I used tons of characters because I played this game for an insanely long time. Some matchups (falco) my Fox just sucks at, but my Marth and Sheik and even my jigglypuff and even falco dittos I can be better at it. That's one of the reasons I changed characters.

The other reason is because my fox controller broke just before MLG finals in 06 =( so after that I practiced hard with a new controller until I got really good and then was going to be iready for 2007's MLG, but then they dropped the game as I was peaking =[

the other reason is because Ken (and Azen) inspired me

my multiple characters is mostly out of getting bored of 1 character and then using another for fun. I have a lot more than 3 good characters. I'm sure I am top 3 or 5 with at least 10 characters in melee, for no reason except for fun.

(For Brawl though, I decided I would do the smarter thing and only focus on one character. By the time summer of 2008 came around I decided I would only use metaknight and never switch. LOOK WHERE THAT GOT ME LOL and now they wanna ban him). I'm scared to focus on 1 character in smash 4 now lol, even though that honestly is probably the most effective strategy.

I don't even know who my most used character in Melee is, but whoever it is, I doubt any single character even takes up more than 20% of my total play time. (In Brawl MK is 99.x% of my total play time)

edit - maybe like 25% or so, idk, just an educated guess

but ive played smash probably like 6000 hours, so 20% still means like 1200 hours

brawl it's probably 3000 but it's almost only with 1 char

of course these are just educated guesses of mine

 

[Deleted member]

you actually just agreed with me and/or reinforced what i said. almost perfectly, with relevant examples.

 

[The Star King]

The skill levels are a hell of a lot higher than they would be without online- you, of all people, should know that.

Any underdevelopment that might exist exists because we have like 4 players.

Well, yeah, I suppose you're right.

 

[kevo]

my multiple characters is mostly out of getting bored of 1 character and then using another for fun. I have a lot more than 3 good characters. I'm sure I am top 3 or 5 with at least 10 characters in melee, for no reason except for fun.

Out of curiosity, what are those 10 characters? I know you have a Falcon, Peach, and Jiggs somewhere in there. How good is that Mewtwo of yours? lol

 

[clowsui]

Great read. Applicable to any game. I think it's worth submitting to other FG websites. Have you considered that, Umbreon?

Also I would like to know about Secret Arts/Forbidden Techniques...

 

[strawhats]

Out of curiosity, what are those 10 characters? I know you have a Falcon, Peach, and Jiggs somewhere in there. How good is that Mewtwo of yours? lol

Fox
Marth
Sheik
Falcon
Doc
Peach
Falco
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Roy

 

[Divinokage]

Top 5 with all of them? Wow.. wow.. lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Not quite. At the very least put DK over roy, his roy sucks. he actually play DK very, very well.

edit: idk what a FG site is.

 

[Max?]

Being really good at CGing with a number of characters on FD =/= being top 5 with them.

 

[Strong Badam]

Not quite. At the very least put DK over roy, his roy sucks. he actually play DK very, very well.

edit: idk what a FG site is.

fighting game site

& m2k's dk is loltastic

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I highly doubt M2K thinks hes a top 5 falco.

 

[SpongeJordan]

I'm in love with that Bruce article.

 

[Nakamaru]

I'm almost done with this. Leave feedback so I have material to work with.

A section on sets would be a good addition i believe. Using smart Counterpicks of both characters and stages as well as bans is essential if you want to do well in a tournament setting.

There are the obvious things like don't let jiggs pick brinstar if you're a fast faller, or picking yoshi's because you're marth. (Thats a bad one, but i think it is the most identifiable of the character + stage synergy) But there is also things you can take from your previous game to help with your ban/counterpick. Like if you are playing Falcon vs peach and got stomped because you didn't have enough space to abuse mobility then taking her to dreamland would be a good idea. Where as if she is a campy peach then going to somewhere like yoshi's would be better. Giving her less area to camp and allowing you to keep pressure on much easier.

Light example.