"Dragonic Reverse" -- Yoshi Can Wavedash!

[Silent Beast]

Similar to above, I'm interested in the button configurations/presses people use to DR? I'm trying to do it with simple X-X-A, but my accuracy is extremely low and completely nil in practice. I'm practicing constantly but improvement seems to be slow...

A lot of us have switched to bigman's Y-B-C stick method, where you have Y and B set to jump, and move specials to X or a trigger. Then, you can just slide your thumb across Y and B and flick the C stick in one motion (though you have to adjust your thumb a little bit so you don't hit the A button). It's a lot easier than X-X-A or Y-Y-A; once you get used to adjusting your thumb to avoid the A button, you should be able to successfully DR a lot more often.

 

[Yokipi]

A lot of us have switched to bigman's Y-B-C stick method, where you have Y and B set to jump, and move specials to X or a trigger. Then, you can just slide your thumb across Y and B and flick the C stick in one motion (though you have to adjust your thumb a little bit so you don't hit the A button). It's a lot easier than X-X-A or Y-Y-A; once you get used to adjusting your thumb to avoid the A button, you should be able to successfully DR a lot more often.

Okay, thanks! I'll try and practice that as soon as I can and see how it is.

Edit: Works much better. =D I'm having the exact problem of hitting the A button occasionally, but otherwise I can do it over half the time standing still and lose little accuracy while moving as well. With more practice, I think I can become reasonably adept at it. Thanks again!

At below: R + Y + C probably won't work easily because R has to be released before Y is pressed, and you might accidentally do them too quickly. Maybe you're doing Y + B + C too fast as well? I tried Tap Jump + L (as jump) + C, but I didn't like it because personally I couldn't slide well while doing it.

 

[Reinhart_x]

o_O

Okay, I have been off this section of Smashboards for WAY too long. I drop back in here because I realise aurorean lives somewhere remotely close to me, and now I read something about a Y-B-c-stick method for DR?

>_<;

If this doesn't say it; I'm STILL unable to do DR. xD. I'm too reliant on the "Melee" setup to change it and also need tapjump on for the whole egg toss pivot (or whatever it's called... x_x) thing...
Wasn't there a way to do that with tapjump off? -_-

I'll think I'll shut up with my off-topic and hope that someone can clue me in and help me to finally (finally) get DR / DT down. I REALLY want to get this down.

YOSHI POWA!

(formerly Mac Matrix)

Hey bro, I'm no master at this but I have been trying all different styles of configurations for a long time now and I hadn't been able to do it . I have finally gotten it down to where I can do it in place 95% of the time and I can get him to slide oh, I don't know, 75% of the time. By the way, this was only like 10 minutes ago I found out this method that works for me.

Ok, so I might not have payed too much attention earlier in the thread and perhaps it was already mentioned but the closest thing I found to this so far is tap jump on + Y + C-stick. I only changed one thing and that is R for jump instead of Y. Wow does this make it like a million times easier. Now, I am used to R being jump already on my other controller configuration because I use it to up-B OOS with tap jump off, so it might take you a little getting familiar with it.

The one problem for me with this setup is, of course, tap jump being on. I foresee a lot of suicides by loss of second jump... But I suppose he had tap jump in Melee so I guess I could get used to it. It sounds to me that you like tap jump so by all means go for this. Good luck!

P.S. I'm not sure how you guys can do Y + B + C-stick, it doesn't register the second jump almost ever for me, and I'm certainly not pressing them at the same time. Also, it's the same with R + Y + C-stick, it doesn't register. Hmm...

 

[Forsworn]

Wow, Y+B+C-stick ftw. I could hardly DR with any other combinations, but after two days with this one I can DR about half the time. Simply amazing! Must. Practice. More.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Slowly starting to get the hang of this but it's difficult, no doubt.

 

[.Marik]

Okay, could someone please simplify effective DR button methods?

Would be appreciated. I'm hearing that Y+B+C-Stick is effective, but I haven't done this before, I want to know what I am doing.

Y/B is jump, and X/Y are attacks, and the C-Stick helps you complete the slide in a shorter amount of time?

 

[bigman40]

Okay, could someone please simplify effective DR button methods?

Would be appreciated. I'm hearing that Y+B+C-Stick is effective, but I haven't done this before, I want to know what I am doing.

Y/B is jump, and X/Y are attacks, and the C-Stick helps you complete the slide in a shorter amount of time?

Y/X attacks? I'm a little confused as to why you said this.

 

[Silent Beast]

Okay, could someone please simplify effective DR button methods?

Would be appreciated. I'm hearing that Y+B+C-Stick is effective, but I haven't done this before, I want to know what I am doing.

Y/B is jump, and X/Y are attacks, and the C-Stick helps you complete the slide in a shorter amount of time?

typical Y-B-C stick configuration:

A: attack (default)
B: jump (necessary)
Y: jump (necessary)
X: specials
C stick: smashes (necessary)
L: shield (default)
R: jump (for ETS)
Z: grab (default)

B, Y, and C stick are "necessary" because you need those button assignments to perform the Y-B-C stick slide to DR (actually, for C stick, I'd assume you can use tilts too, though I'm not 100% sure). You can assign any function you want to any of the other buttons.

 

[.Marik]

Hey, thanks. I'll be sure to try it out when I have time.

 

[Elefterios]

can anyone post some frame data for DR?


After mastering and using it for a couple of weeks now, I'm still not convinced that it really is the great tech that a lot of members make it out to be.


These are some observations I made.
-DR is slightly faster than walking. (but the DR lag halts your movement. so you'd walk dr, lag, then continue walking.... in the end, you'd cover the same distance had you just walked normally.
-slower than running.
-there is lag after a dr. ( i want to compare frames for running dr fsmash, to running pivot (first frames) to fsmash. I cannot tell which one is faster.)
-not safe. After a DR, you always have to be in the offensive. Shielding is not an option.
-pretty useless against characters with range or projectiles.


Good for:
-mindgames.


Everything you can do with a DR can be done easier and safer with a combination of yoshi's pivot/dash dance/ DPC. I will make a thread on this later on tonight.

 

[auroreon]

You don't seem to have grasped what the DR is for. Also, there is no lag after a DR.

 

[Elefterios]

You don't seem to have grasped what the DR is for. Also, there is no lag after a DR.

there is. DPC has no lag.


Ok then, why don't you tell me what DR is for.

 

[Depster]

Almost too many things to explain. DR is for spacing. It's for mindgames. It's for picking up items, and glide tossing them without DACIT. It's for unpunishable Fsmashes shieldgrab wise. It's for quick movement and moving quickly. It's for short bursts of invincibility. It's for a better way to roll. It's the new wavedash, just shorter but more powerful.

Oh, and continous foxtrotted DRs (DT) makes yoshi the second fastest character in the game.

 

[auroreon]

Went to a fest yesterday and experimented a bit with DR and DT. I have to say, Yoshis who don't DR do not know what they are missing. I've got it down almost flawlessly now and I only missed the input a few times yesterday. Smart use of the DT is really a benefit and there are so many opportunities when just the small slide from the DR can get you in a really good position. DR/DT > Jab served me very well.

 

[bigman40]

there is. DPC has no lag.


Ok then, why don't you tell me what DR is for.

DPC does have lag. DR has lag. Both moves have startup lag, but DR doesn't have as long of a startup as DPC (as you have to wait until you get into Yoshi's running animation to turn and do whatever). DR is mainly more instantaneous than what you would need to do for DPC.

I don't feel like writing out big *** paragraphs to explain what people should do in so-and-so circumstances. It's the reason people should "work" to find out when and where it's application is useful to you.

 

[Chaco]

But people are to lazy. <.<

 

[Yosheon]

Is the Dragonic Reverse easy to do with the Wiimote and nunchuck?

 

[auroreon]

Is the Dragonic Reverse easy to do with the Wiimote and nunchuck?

lol, how would that even work... :/
You probably want to learn Brawl with the Gamecube or even Classic Controller, its very difficult to play competetively with the mote and nunchuck.

 

[Yosheon]

Oh, okay. I guess there's nothing wrong with trying something new.

 

[bigman40]

I tried doing it with Wiichuck before, but it's ludicrously hard if you take off tap jump.

 

[nicalobe]

Is the Dragonic Reverse easy to do with the Wiimote and nunchuck?

I use Wii-chuck controls, and with practice DR is possible. I have down on the D-pad set to jump. When I want to DR I double tap jump and attack. It's really hard, but if you like using Wii-chuck controls, you don't really have too many more options.

 

[K.Mac]

typical Y-B-C stick configuration:

A: attack (default)
B: jump (necessary)
Y: jump (necessary)
X: specials
C stick: smashes (necessary)
L: shield (default)
R: jump (for ETS)
Z: grab (default)

B, Y, and C stick are "necessary" because you need those button assignments to perform the Y-B-C stick slide to DR (actually, for C stick, I'd assume you can use tilts too, though I'm not 100% sure). You can assign any function you want to any of the other buttons.

Thanks for the advice (as also with you, Reinhart_x )

Yeah, I've been stuck with using tapjump on because I'm a long Melee player and turning tapjump off doesn't feel natural. Also, it makes ETS more difficult... I guess that's what the purpose of setting L to jump is for.

But, after going to a local ranbat in which I met Aurorean and actually -saw- proper use of DR, it's made me realise that I think it's time for me to accept that Brawl -isn't- Melee, and I need to force myself to adapt to a control setup which allows for ease of DR.

I've noted I've began to get the timing for the tapjump-X-A manifestation of DR however - as Aurorean told me in MSN last week, DR is a case of practice, practice, practice, and I can see it's possible and I've done it myself a few times on my standard Melee config so.. it's got my hopes up.


I'll give the Y-B-C a go and report back - if I can do it, it will almost certainly help my game (... as I had the unfortunate thought of thinking "Hell, I might switch to MK" which is blasphemy, as I can't see myself maining anyone other than Yoshi =/)

If any of you guys want to try help a fellow Yoshi out feel free to MSN me (excludes Aurorean - I already have you

as I would really appreciate all the input, help and training you guys can give.

I WILL BEAT YOU AUROREAN. I SWEAR IT!


sidenote I won't have too much trouble with using other characters, once I get used to this setup? I main Yoshi but as far as records go my secondary is Falco, and I just hope it won't mess up my Falco.

 

[SonicBlind]

Awesome thread , only the determined people can grasp the DR. Although I don't want to stereotype.

 

[Silent Beast]

sidenote I won't have too much trouble with using other characters, once I get used to this setup? I main Yoshi but as far as records go my secondary is Falco, and I just hope it won't mess up my Falco.

There's certainly an adjustment period, but unless other characters need specific control schemes for optimal play (which I'm quite sure Falco doesn't need), those characters shouldn't suffer in the long run.

 

[K.Mac]

Thanks

I'm probably going to be stuck in training mode for weeks until I get used to pressing X for specials and Y / L for jump, but I think it'll be worth it - I've been sat at my Wii for about ten minutes now and already DR'd a good number of times - mostly on the spot, but I've managed a few moving ones.

Yay ^^

I'm presuming the fact that I have a problem with hitting the A button when trying to press the Y-B-Cstick combo is a common issue? As annoying as it is that I keep trying to avoid it, I keep literally just tapping the button enough to make it register an attack.. =/

The practice should help me get used to avoiding it?

Btw it's not a problem that I've gone with using L for jump (for ETS) and R for shield? I should really see about swapping them though... as recently I've gotten into the habit of pressing L when trying to shield attacks..
I should probably also consider de-springing the relevant trigger to make it easier to time jumps -_-

-goes back to practicing.-

 

[SonicBlind]

Yup , I need to work up from using tap jump for DR. To using Y,Y,A or X,X,A or any other method.

 

[Metatitan]

Went to a fest yesterday and experimented a bit with DR and DT. I have to say, Yoshis who don't DR do not know what they are missing. I've got it down almost flawlessly now and I only missed the input a few times yesterday. Smart use of the DT is really a benefit and there are so many opportunities when just the small slide from the DR can get you in a really good position. DR/DT > Jab served me very well.

Unless some new type of effective infinite or grab release is discovered or better AT is discovered via DR, i see no purpose in the technique.

 

[Silent Beast]

I'm presuming the fact that I have a problem with hitting the A button when trying to press the Y-B-Cstick combo is a common issue? As annoying as it is that I keep trying to avoid it, I keep literally just tapping the button enough to make it register an attack.. =/

Yep, I've had issues with that too. That A button's so big. Try adjusting your finger to a more vertical position when you go for the slide.

The practice should help me get used to avoiding it?

It should, yeah.

Btw it's not a problem that I've gone with using L for jump (for ETS) and R for shield? I should really see about swapping them though... as recently I've gotten into the habit of pressing L when trying to shield attacks..

No, no problem. Either way is essentially the same thing.

 

[auroreon]

Unless some new type of effective infinite or grab release is discovered or better AT is discovered via DR, i see no purpose in the technique.

That would either be because you haven't bothered to learn it and experiment with it to see if u can find any uses, because nobody else has implemented it well and makes use of it (and posted videos), because you haven't been able to do and have therefore chosen to just pass it off as useless or because other people have said that it isn't useful.

I dunno, maybe it just isn't practical to learn for people with tap jump off, but as one of the people who does use it I can tell you that it is useful, its not a "revolutionary Yoshi tech" or anything but it does have its uses.

 

[Metatitan]

That would either be because you haven't bothered to learn it and experiment with it to see if u can find any uses, because nobody else has implemented it well and makes use of it (and posted videos), because you haven't been able to do and have therefore chosen to just pass it off as useless or because other people have said that it isn't useful.

I dunno, maybe it just isn't practical to learn for people with tap jump off, but as one of the people who does use it I can tell you that it is useful, its not a "revolutionary Yoshi tech" or anything but it does have its uses.

I did in fact have DR at a high consistency at one point, but it never really helped. Let's look at the facts, DR is an insignificant wavedash. You barely go anywhere with it. Not to mention (this is just what I heard at one point for a counter-DR argument) wavedashing was used for two things, spacing and instant ledge hog. Both are now possible without the need for wavedashing so DR essentially has no use. If DR made you slide twice the distance or so, then yes it would be useful. Am I encouraging people not to learn DR? Hell no, it's always good to have research into something like this. That would be like telling the jigglypuffs to stop researching perfect rests- while it may not be particularly useful, something big could be discovered from it.

 

[auroreon]

I did in fact have DR at a high consistency at one point, but it never really helped. Let's look at the facts, DR is an insignificant wavedash. You barely go anywhere with it. Not to mention (this is just what I heard at one point for a counter-DR argument) wavedashing was used for two things, spacing and instant ledge hog. Both are now possible without the need for wavedashing so DR essentially has no use. If DR made you slide twice the distance or so, then yes it would be useful. Am I encouraging people not to learn DR? Hell no, it's always good to have research into something like this. That would be like telling the jigglypuffs to stop researching perfect rests- while it may not be particularly useful, something big could be discovered from it.

I agree that DR is very limited in its uses alone, the real use of DR comes from DT as you can get more than twice the length. I completely agree that DR on its own is far too short to be of any real consistant use.

 

[K.Mac]

The only use I can see for DR is for mindgames. Since it lets you stop/turn at a faster speed than simply turning around mid-dash, you can use it to surprise people into thinking you're going to dash-attack them, only for them to find themselves attacking air becuase you suddenly stopped.

I'm not that good at DR (very inconsistent and having trouble adapting to bigman's YBC method - I'm going to try the standard tapjump-X-A or similar as I'm too used to the Melee controller setup... adapting to the new method is more difficult than spamming the button combo.

But I can see that DR does have a use, even if it's only very minimal. Most people don't expect it; it can catch a lot of people off-guard, it seems, hence why I suggested that to me it feels best used for mindgames.

(what button combo do you use again aurorean? my memory = sieve.)

 

[Slice~]

it´s also useful for spacing
but yeah, the best way to use it is in making mindgames
i don´t know if it´s new or allready known but, i´ve recognized that it´s possible to do a crouch slide after a DR, even if you aren´t running
i´d aoften use it to space an enemy who wants to attack:
slide back -> dsmash

 

[Jezza]

One question:
Is it possible to DR with a Wii Remote?
Coz it seems nearly impossible for me to DR and I can only do it on 1/2x speed D=.

 

[bigman40]

One question:
Is it possible to DR with a Wii Remote?
Coz it seems nearly impossible for me to DR and I can only do it on 1/2x speed D=.

Sry, but it's really hard for wiichuck/wiimote players.

 

[indigestible_wad]

Is that assuming you have the basic setup or a custum setup for the wiimote?

 

[bigman40]

Is that assuming you have the basic setup or a custum setup for the wiimote?

I've never tried to find a custom setup for those controls, so I wouldn't know if it might work on a custom setup. The main thing I know is that it's nearly like doing XXA/YYA on the GC, which is stupidly hard.

 

[Airborne]

I've never tried to find a custom setup for those controls, so I wouldn't know if it might work on a custom setup. The main thing I know is that it's nearly like doing XXA/YYA on the GC, which is stupidly hard.

xxa is not that hard.... it's just impossible to DT with...

 

[Depster]

If you REALLY want to do these easy, try using Classic controller, just slide your thumb across the top three buttons with a flick. It's a lot easier than using some freaky button setting

 

[Naucitos]

Interesting fact, it seems frame data says that there are two possible inputs for the DR:

im going to try to vrify this and then post more details