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"Dragonic Reverse" -- Yoshi Can Wavedash!
- Thread starter Scarlet Jile
- Start date
bigman40
Smash Master
Only two. I've tried many other ways while frame data-ing it, but it never worked.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Burntsocks is learning DR and this time i mean it!
bigman40
Smash Master
I wonder how many times I'm gonna see this till I start seeing it.... >___>
Metatitan
Smash Master
As many times as I've seen the words Chicken Beacon Ranch spammed on this forums
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
I'm sorry Meta
LOL
LOL
D
Deleted member
Guest
Im doing it right now, so you can go munch on some **** scat )
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
I was practicing it too, I DR at a 2% percent rate 
I haven't given up.
I haven't given up.
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
I can execute DR fairly consistantly, but I have no idea where to begin implementing this in actual matches. ;-;
I'm not a DR expert by any means, but there are two ways to go about this, I think.First way is the most painful. Just spam it. Just use it just because. See where it's accidentally useful. See where using it isn't such a good idea. Then start thinking for applications for it. I remember the days when I wished I had something...SOMETHING to give Yoshi more control of himself on the ground. DR does that for me where wavedashing is absent in this game. My ground control and spacing is a big part of my game, and just tossing out grabs and occasional shield dropping doesn't do it for me.
Second way is the least painful, but probably the longest. Start with a purpose in mind. Like, in a matchup involving items or something (Diddy Kong, R.O.B., etc.). Since you can pick up items guaranteed safely with DR, you can start by learning how to approach items with DR and what to do with them after that. You can then expand your horizons to cover what else you can do in those particular matchups with DR that you couldn't do before you used DR in that specific way (this doesn't only apply to item matchups). After that, like above, start experimenting.
I think any method to mastering this technique will end in the broad experimentation phase; it just depends on how you're going to get there. It's all about looking at any point in time in any match against any character and asking, "How would DR affect this situation?"
~Firefly~
Smash Hero
Hmm, good stuff. The first method reminds me of what I did with pivot grabs; when I finally got the hang of executing them, I simply started using them in a completely arbitrary fashion to see what happens. At first, I would only do it while running away from an opponent, and hope they would follow me and get caught in my tongue. As I kept using them, I started dashing shorter and shorter distances, and my control increased; now, if I decide I want to grab my opponent, the pivot grab will just happen, and I'll be happily chewing on them before I even think about it. I figured DR would just kinda fall into place like the pivot grabs did, but I'm gonna have to accept that I'm going to lose a lot while I adjust.
On the other hand, I have one of those specific situations to work with, so the second method will help me as well. My friend, and the only skilled Brawler I can play with on a regular basis, mains R.O.B. =P I can spotdodge his lazers effectively, but he uses his gyro in a way that punishes my spotdodge, forces me to shield, and generally causes me grief. I don't think there are a lot of better ways to introduce DR into my moveset in a purposeful manner. ^.^ This has occured to me before, but I've been preoccupied with other aspects of Yoshi's moveset; lately, I've been playing around with Egg Lay a lot. I'll make sure to try that the next chance I get though, and I suppose I'll see where it goes from there.
On the other hand, I have one of those specific situations to work with, so the second method will help me as well. My friend, and the only skilled Brawler I can play with on a regular basis, mains R.O.B. =P I can spotdodge his lazers effectively, but he uses his gyro in a way that punishes my spotdodge, forces me to shield, and generally causes me grief. I don't think there are a lot of better ways to introduce DR into my moveset in a purposeful manner. ^.^ This has occured to me before, but I've been preoccupied with other aspects of Yoshi's moveset; lately, I've been playing around with Egg Lay a lot. I'll make sure to try that the next chance I get though, and I suppose I'll see where it goes from there.
Metatitan
Smash Master
Mabey he applies it better
bigman40
Smash Master
I'll pass
But I wanna see some proof this time. You've told me the same thing since about December (I think) and I don't even know anything else. Cmon....Either you are learning it or you're not. Doesn't harm me. We all start somewhere man. Keep at it. (and if you're doing XXA or YYA, then change the controls. You won't get higher than about 50% on it wit hhow much effort it asks everytime you attempt you use it).I was practicing it too, I DR at a 2% percent rate
I haven't given up.
Best explanation I've seen, and for the record to people, I did the first one. I only did it in friendlies until I was comfortable.
First way is the most painful. Just spam it. Just use it just because. See where it's accidentally useful. See where using it isn't such a good idea. Then start thinking for applications for it. I remember the days when I wished I had something...SOMETHING to give Yoshi more control of himself on the ground. DR does that for me where wavedashing is absent in this game. My ground control and spacing is a big part of my game, and just tossing out grabs and occasional shield dropping doesn't do it for me.
Second way is the least painful, but probably the longest. Start with a purpose in mind. Like, in a matchup involving items or something (Diddy Kong, R.O.B., etc.). Since you can pick up items guaranteed safely with DR, you can start by learning how to approach items with DR and what to do with them after that. You can then expand your horizons to cover what else you can do in those particular matchups with DR that you couldn't do before you used DR in that specific way (this doesn't only apply to item matchups). After that, like above, start experimenting.
I think any method to mastering this technique will end in the broad experimentation phase; it just depends on how you're going to get there. It's all about looking at any point in time in any match against any character and asking, "How would DR affect this situation?"
What's funny, I only started that style when I got out of college for the summer lol. I only have about 1 month of exp on this style
I exploded. *explodes*
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THAT DIDJA?!
Idk, but I exploded and I'll do it again *explodes*
Need vids to prove it. I got mine, where are theirs?Mabey he applies it better
Metatitan
Smash Master
^
I was joking scatty
I was joking scatty
bigman40
Smash Master
I know. I'm just stating it though lol.
Metatitan
Smash Master
I bet you 5 crunch wrap supremes that stocky will give up on DR in a month
lol Sticky.
I don't use just DR anymore, when I started using DT I found that it was harder to DR on its own and I could no longer get it 95% anymore. So now I just use DT, or dash away and immediatly DR back like a super stutterstep.
Naucitos
Smash Journeyman
I posted a bit about this earlier, as it turns out you can input DR by jumping and then inputting jump on frame 7 and attack on frame 8, OR jumping and inputting jump and then attack before frame 6, the latter doesen't have the doublejump circle appear
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
I practicing with both YLA (my current control style) and with YBCstick. I'm getting the same consistency I get DR with YBC as I do with YLA
bigman40
Smash Master
Read my guide on Yoshinator's thread. I already have it listed there man.
If I come to the next FL gaming, I'll help you out. Deal?I practicing with both YLA (my current control style) and with YBCstick. I'm getting the same consistency I get DR with YBC as I do with YLA
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
Yeah. That be awesome.
Poltergust
Smash Master
Speaking of FG, if Scatz does come we're teaming up. I got screwed over at FG and I was left without a partner in the end.
Naucitos
Smash Journeyman
Oh, my apologies, i missed it because i assumed it would belong here so i didn't search other threads for things related to this
bigman40
Smash Master
It's fine. It should be here too since it's about this tech lol. I'ma post it really quick.
6. Dragonic Reverse (By Scatz/Bigman40)
Bigman40's Guide on Dragonic Reverse
The technique that most Yoshi players have been evading lately. When we think of this move, most Yoshi players have the idea that this is Double Jump Canceling (DJC). Others think that it's Wavedashing. This move is a mix of both; enabling Yoshi to use some of the same properties that Wavedashing gave in melee, but also limiting it's movement compared to its former look-a-like.
First off, Dragonic Reverse is NOT an easy technique that you'll have down within one day. This will actually take some amount of work to solidify the consistency needed to utilize this move. To actually make this move work, these are the only buttons that you need to press (in order):
1. Jump
2. Double Jump
3. Attack/C-stick (this does not matter on whether you do a B-air, N-air, F-air, or a U-air)
You're probably laughing at how easy it's asking you right now, aren't you? Well, you have a certain amount of frames to input these three buttons. AT MOST, you need to push those 3 buttons within 9 frames (I'll expand on that soon). Some of the people that loved Melee's tech skill will probably say that this move is nothing close to hard. Unfortunately, Dragonic Reverse has even more requirements that will choose whether this technique is a success or failure.
NOTE: All of this is starts on frame 2 AFTER pushing jump (jump on frame 1).
1a. 4 frames = (3 - jump, 4 - attack) This is the earliest you can input the buttons
1b. 6 frames = (3 - jump, 6 - attack) This is the latest you can input the buttons
2. **9 frames = (8 - jump, 9 - attack) This is a special one compared to the rest. Explanation later.
The restrictions that will not allow this technique to register correctly are listed here:
1. Pushing two jump buttons at the same time will NOT register DJ
3. Cannot push jump within 2 frames (will register as one jump)
4. On frame 7, if you input the jump then, you will not get a DJ.
5. Cannot register attack on frame 7- 9 if jump is on frame 6
6. As long as attack is done on frame 6, the jump can be inputted anywhere from frame 3-5
To get the just of what I said above, as soon as you input your initial jump, you only have 5 frames to input the last two buttons. But now, you're wondering why it can be done within 9 frames. Well, it's because Yoshi's cancel has two different looks. The first cancel keeps Yoshi completely planted onto the ground where it only happens when you input the buttons before frame 7. The second cancel actually shows the DJ rings just before he touches the ground. This can only be achieved by inputting it from what was said above (following the **).
The second cancel is quite useful if you are someone who would like to take a dare at things. Since yoshi IS in the air before he lands back onto the ground, you will have only 1 frame where you will get Heavy Armor to absorb the damage and knockback from almost any attack while you counterattack freely. This is what most of you Yoshi mainers are probably getting if you use a method such as X, X, A or Y, Y, A. The thumb is normally not fast enough to tap these buttons quickly enough, and get the DJ and attack to come 1 frame after the other without exerting some amount of energy.
Note: The differences with the first and second cancels are small, but I will still list them so you can figure out what you want to try to get.
1st cancel: You will get a slightly smaller slide compared to the 2nd cancel. You also won't get the heavy armor frame, but this method is easier to pull off given the window (at max, a 4 frame difference between pushing for a DJ and an Attack).
2nd cancel: The slide is longer than the first cancel, and you'll have 1 frame to counter your opponents if you hit the move correctly. While given these small benefits, you are given a 1 frame difference to input the DJ and Attack (DJ on frame 8 and Attack on frame 9).
If you choose to use the first cancel rather than the second cancel, understand that you WON'T get the 1 frame of heavy armor. You'll be vunerable from the start to the moment you touch the ground (that's a total of about 9 - 11 frames). So when using the first cancel, make sure that you pay attention to when you need to use it. Don't want to be getting hit by a Fsmash that you DR'ed into.
When you practice this technique, MAKE SURE that you take breaks inbetween every 5 - 10 mins of practicing. Since the inputs are soo quick, the technique will demand alot of energy. Continuing to practice without taking any breaks will not make you get any more consistent, nor will it make your thumb move any faster. A rested arm (yes, your arm can get tired from using up alot of energy to make you thumb tap that quickly) will always allow you to use this maneuver much more efficiently than an arm that's tired from attempting to force the technique for a good while.
As for incorporating the move, play with it in friendlies and find out what works best for you. Only use this tech when you have a fair amount of confidence that you'll get it when you want it to. Using it recklessly will help you learn quickly when and where the right/wrong places are when attempting to use this technique. Don't get frustrated, as it's not something that you can get down consistently within mere hours. Give it time, and you'll slowly (maybe quickly) see improvements in your Yoshi overall!
That's all for you to know! Go out there and start messing with it! Happy ing! ^_^
6. Dragonic Reverse (By Scatz/Bigman40)
Bigman40's Guide on Dragonic Reverse
The technique that most Yoshi players have been evading lately. When we think of this move, most Yoshi players have the idea that this is Double Jump Canceling (DJC). Others think that it's Wavedashing. This move is a mix of both; enabling Yoshi to use some of the same properties that Wavedashing gave in melee, but also limiting it's movement compared to its former look-a-like.
First off, Dragonic Reverse is NOT an easy technique that you'll have down within one day. This will actually take some amount of work to solidify the consistency needed to utilize this move. To actually make this move work, these are the only buttons that you need to press (in order):
1. Jump
2. Double Jump
3. Attack/C-stick (this does not matter on whether you do a B-air, N-air, F-air, or a U-air)
You're probably laughing at how easy it's asking you right now, aren't you? Well, you have a certain amount of frames to input these three buttons. AT MOST, you need to push those 3 buttons within 9 frames (I'll expand on that soon). Some of the people that loved Melee's tech skill will probably say that this move is nothing close to hard. Unfortunately, Dragonic Reverse has even more requirements that will choose whether this technique is a success or failure.
NOTE: All of this is starts on frame 2 AFTER pushing jump (jump on frame 1).
1a. 4 frames = (3 - jump, 4 - attack) This is the earliest you can input the buttons
1b. 6 frames = (3 - jump, 6 - attack) This is the latest you can input the buttons
2. **9 frames = (8 - jump, 9 - attack) This is a special one compared to the rest. Explanation later.
The restrictions that will not allow this technique to register correctly are listed here:
1. Pushing two jump buttons at the same time will NOT register DJ
3. Cannot push jump within 2 frames (will register as one jump)
4. On frame 7, if you input the jump then, you will not get a DJ.
5. Cannot register attack on frame 7- 9 if jump is on frame 6
6. As long as attack is done on frame 6, the jump can be inputted anywhere from frame 3-5
To get the just of what I said above, as soon as you input your initial jump, you only have 5 frames to input the last two buttons. But now, you're wondering why it can be done within 9 frames. Well, it's because Yoshi's cancel has two different looks. The first cancel keeps Yoshi completely planted onto the ground where it only happens when you input the buttons before frame 7. The second cancel actually shows the DJ rings just before he touches the ground. This can only be achieved by inputting it from what was said above (following the **).
The second cancel is quite useful if you are someone who would like to take a dare at things. Since yoshi IS in the air before he lands back onto the ground, you will have only 1 frame where you will get Heavy Armor to absorb the damage and knockback from almost any attack while you counterattack freely. This is what most of you Yoshi mainers are probably getting if you use a method such as X, X, A or Y, Y, A. The thumb is normally not fast enough to tap these buttons quickly enough, and get the DJ and attack to come 1 frame after the other without exerting some amount of energy.
Note: The differences with the first and second cancels are small, but I will still list them so you can figure out what you want to try to get.
1st cancel: You will get a slightly smaller slide compared to the 2nd cancel. You also won't get the heavy armor frame, but this method is easier to pull off given the window (at max, a 4 frame difference between pushing for a DJ and an Attack).
2nd cancel: The slide is longer than the first cancel, and you'll have 1 frame to counter your opponents if you hit the move correctly. While given these small benefits, you are given a 1 frame difference to input the DJ and Attack (DJ on frame 8 and Attack on frame 9).
If you choose to use the first cancel rather than the second cancel, understand that you WON'T get the 1 frame of heavy armor. You'll be vunerable from the start to the moment you touch the ground (that's a total of about 9 - 11 frames). So when using the first cancel, make sure that you pay attention to when you need to use it. Don't want to be getting hit by a Fsmash that you DR'ed into.
When you practice this technique, MAKE SURE that you take breaks inbetween every 5 - 10 mins of practicing. Since the inputs are soo quick, the technique will demand alot of energy. Continuing to practice without taking any breaks will not make you get any more consistent, nor will it make your thumb move any faster. A rested arm (yes, your arm can get tired from using up alot of energy to make you thumb tap that quickly) will always allow you to use this maneuver much more efficiently than an arm that's tired from attempting to force the technique for a good while.
As for incorporating the move, play with it in friendlies and find out what works best for you. Only use this tech when you have a fair amount of confidence that you'll get it when you want it to. Using it recklessly will help you learn quickly when and where the right/wrong places are when attempting to use this technique. Don't get frustrated, as it's not something that you can get down consistently within mere hours. Give it time, and you'll slowly (maybe quickly) see improvements in your Yoshi overall!
That's all for you to know! Go out there and start messing with it! Happy
ing! ^_^
Yoshi Kirishima
Smash Lord
Wow, Big, just awsome. Cereal. Good work :D.
TheEgo
Smash Rookie
Yes the DR is awesome once you learn it you can't forget it , it just keeps repeating itself .....
bigman40
Smash Master
My post is what everyone should refer to when they ask about DR/DT. Since it's already in Sharky's post, you can just unsticky this, and place this in the Q&A thread:
Q: "What is DR and how do I do it?"
A: Bigman40 has made a guide on how to do this technique. You can read it near the bottom of the first post in this thread: "Insert link here"
Q: "What is DR and how do I do it?"
A: Bigman40 has made a guide on how to do this technique. You can read it near the bottom of the first post in this thread: "Insert link here"
pwiito
Banned via Warnings
ok I'm about to give up on this.... Doing DR with tap off is too hard for me XD, i can get it 2/5 times but in real battle it would be nearly impossible for me, I need help with DR while having tap off, pl someone help me with control confugarition and all that stuff, tap off is priority for me for mindgames, if i put tap on, I'll get #!#@, i need to throw eggs for mindgames :D
D
Deleted member
Guest
Keep practicing, take breaks, its just XXA 
pwiito
Banned via Warnings
alright i pretty much mastered this, now... how do i dash with it lol?i can do it standing on one spot, now how do i slide and smash with it?
Metatitan
Smash Master
Hold a direction while doing it
Scarlet Jile
Smash Lord
Yo Bigman, if you copy/paste the html in your how-to guide and email it to me at scarlet_jile@yahoo.com I'll put it in the first post.
Or if it can be put in a code format on these forums where it's copy-able.*
Or if it can be put in a code format on these forums where it's copy-able.*