"Dragonic Reverse" -- Yoshi Can Wavedash!

[Scala]

You don't need tap jump. You probably would have realized that if you had read nearly any of the posts in this thread

:newbie:

 

[yostuffstank]

so u press X -> Y -> A? dope dope... ANYWAY... what do u dope yoshi mainers think about the difficulty of the technique compared to the result?

 

[Scala]

Worth it. Any AT is worth learning if it gives you even the slightest edge. And the DR gives you more than a slight edge.

 

[bigman40]

I gotta say this. I actually think using the Classic controller is much easier than using Tap jump. I can do it on the fly (granted my spacing with it still sucks), and you don't really stress your fingers out when you use the CC. Plus, you can do everything (ECE, ETS, etc.) without having to make major changes to the setup.

To be honest, GC is looking like the hardest setup for this maneuver. I went back a few weeks ago, and I could barely DR as quickly nor as accurate and consistent that I used to with CC.

EDIT cuz I'm slow XDDD

It's a worthy move to have in the bag. I know I've used it to dodge a character that outranges me to get an attack in that normally wouldn't happen.

 

[Blistering Speed]

We need a list of the movement advantages this can give you, the ones I know:
Pick up items during DR
Fall through a platform and then go back up into it

 

[DstyCube]

So I was looking at the title of the tread, more the "Yoshi Can Wavedash!" part lol. The actual reason why you get the momentum off of DR is because of pivot boosting right? If you haven't heard of pivot boosting the thread can be found here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=177084

I know they're not exactly the same, but in the end DR is really just a pivot tech right? Just a random thought.

 

[bigman40]

Not the same Dsty. Yoshi is in the air when he cancels it. You can see the DJ rings form when it happens. Although the one may be similar, but I don't see the relevance cause looking from it, you HAVE to crouch to get the affect. Yoshi doesn't need to do it.

 

[Opfer]

I think the reason for the slide is that when Yoshi jumps (forward or backwards doesn't matter), he gets aerial momentum. Upon landing, this momentum leads to a slide. You can also see the slide when landing from a jump.

You can also see (and even make use of) it when you drop through a platform and hold the stick in one direction. Upon landing, Yoshi will slide a little. I use this sometimes to do a retreating egg toss after having dropped through a platform.

I don't think it has anything to do with pivoting, turning around or anything like that.

While I'm here, let me ask you people: Did anyone master the DR to the point of it being useful in matches using the XXA or YYA configuration? And to bigman40: You said you use the Classic Controller for DR. What configuration do you use?

 

[DstyCube]

Not the same Dsty. Yoshi is in the air when he cancels it. You can see the DJ rings form when it happens. Although the one may be similar, but I don't see the relevance cause looking from it, you HAVE to crouch to get the affect. Yoshi doesn't need to do it.

I'm not trying to say they're the same. I was just trying to explain why you get the slide off of a DR. You don't actually leave the ground when you DR. You only get the slide from when you DR in the opposite direction, which would make sense because you're gaining the momentum from a pivot. Have you ever tried pivot boosting? The distance you gain on it is pretty much the same as you do with a DR.

In my book, DR is an advanced pivot tech for Yoshi, as opposed to a wavedash.

*EDIT* Sorry Opfer, totally missed your post!

I think the reason for the slide is that when Yoshi jumps (forward or backwards doesn't matter), he gets aerial momentum. Upon landing, this momentum leads to a slide. You can also see the slide when landing from a jump.

You can also see (and even make use of) it when you drop through a platform and hold the stick in one direction. Upon landing, Yoshi will slide a little. I use this sometimes to do a retreating egg toss after having dropped through a platform.

I don't think it has anything to do with pivoting, turning around or anything like that.

While I'm here, let me ask you people: Did anyone master the DR to the point of it being useful in matches using the XXA or YYA configuration? And to bigman40: You said you use the Classic Controller for DR. What configuration do you use?

I would agree with you, but there really isn't even a jump to gain momentum off. Although you get the DJ rings, you technically never leave the ground. Also, if you were gaining momentum from the jump, you're getting it off of the very beginning of the second jump (which is straight down). I wouldn't think it would have anything to do with pivoting either, but if it didn't why can't you get nearly as good of a slide forwards as you do backwards? If it had everything to do with aerial momentum shouldn't you be able to pull off the slide as effectively in either direction?

I use XXA, and I can use it matches.

 

[bigman40]

I never tried the pivotboost (looked useless to me and it looks like it would take too long to dodge effectively), but I do see your point

TO Opfer: I use X Y L for my DR. Granted I stopped it for a little to get my spacing and such back together, but I'm going to pick it up again.

 

[Chaco]

I didthe same thing Big, I realized today I had to stopped using it as much. So I got a few kills with it. XD

 

[Opfer]

*EDIT* Sorry Opfer, totally missed your post!

No problem, good thing I checked back and saw it .

I would agree with you, but there really isn't even a jump to gain momentum off. Although you get the DJ rings, you technically never leave the ground.

I don't think you can argue like that. Think of the Melee wavedash. You never leave the ground there either, yet you perform an action that can only be done when in the air and even gain momentum from it.

Also, if you were gaining momentum from the jump, you're getting it off of the very beginning of the second jump (which is straight down).

I just tried this out in training mode (throwing eggs in the air with tap jump on), and it seems the second jump doesn't remove your horizontal momentum (except if you do the double jump in the opposite direction of where you're moving, and also only if you wait a little before throwing the egg).

So I think you get the initial momentum from the grounded jump while the second jump won't change the momentum at all.

I wouldn't think it would have anything to do with pivoting either, but if it didn't why can't you get nearly as good of a slide forwards as you do backwards? If it had everything to do with aerial momentum shouldn't you be able to pull off the slide as effectively in either direction?

I just tried that out in 1/4 speed and I got the same distance from DR forwards, DR backwards and DR backwards with turnaround (half across the diamond shape on final destination).

It may seem that the DR backwards with turnaround goes farther at first because Yoshi's nose sticks out so far in front of him, but if you look at where he stands (his shoes are the center of his body, when he does a turnaround, the shoes' positions remain unchanged), you can see that there is no difference.

I use XXA, and I can use it matches.

That's good to hear. I guess I'll just have to practice more then.

I use X Y L for my DR. Granted I stopped it for a little to get my spacing and such back together, but I'm going to pick it up again.

Okay, maybe I'll mess with it later, thanks.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Wonderful. Must practice this!

 

[DstyCube]

Opfer: Thanks for the post.

I really thought I was right until I hit the last part of your post. And thats where I couldn't think of anything to explain it other than pivot boosting doesn't have anything to do with DR lol.

On the other hand, Yoshi's double jump does cancel his momentum from the first jump. When you do an egg toss you have to be holding the control stick directly up when you do the egg toss after the second jump. Another simple way to show it is just do a running jump, let go of the control stick, and do your second jump.

But when you are doing a DR you can choose 3 options. You can slide forward, backwards, or just stop in place. The momentum of DR is decided by which direction you are holding on your control stick when you the second jump, and not the first.

Oh wells, another crash course in DR for me I suppose lol.

 

[Opfer]

The momentum of DR is decided by which direction you are holding on your control stick when you the second jump, and not the first.

Hmm, yeah, that sounds like it'd make sense. I didn't let go of the control stick when I did my tests, so I guess you're right.

 

[chimpact]

How long did it take you guys to master this? I love Yoshi but disregarded him in brawl after a month or so because I wasn't really good with him. This tech would really help out my game.

 

[Yinlong]

i started 4 days ago and i can do it with XXA about 60% of the time already
definitely takes more time than other techs though

 

[bigman40]

I was attempting to find the best methods for all controllers. So, it pretty much took me 2 months to get it like washdashing in melee. I kinda dropped it though cause I was trying to get some other problems down before I finish learning it.

 

[pidgey14]

grr practicing this is such a pain. I can only get it a few times >.<. I can do the dragonic egg lay all right but this is just so hard. In time, I will get it

 

[Yinlong]

i think the best way to learn it is to just start of practicing at normal speed
doing it slow messes me up ahah >.>
also the second x and a should be at pretty much the exact same time

 

[~Peachy~]

Wow... never seen THAT before. Nice find.

 

[Chaco]

Ok, I can do two methods of DR, but I find tap jumping the easiest form of doing the wave dash. But actually I prefer Tap off method when just plying around, but he tap alows you to perform the cancel way faster.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I can't do this T_T, I have been lucky enough to get it in normal..... 3 times out of about..... 120?

Tried L to Jump, most awkward crap I've ever done and it didn't work.....considering L is my shield button I was just going without a shield =P fortunately I was just testing on CPU's so I couldn't get lawl'd at =P.

Is there any way to speed up my thumb for XXA or should I not be using my thumb for that!?

 

[DanGR]

I'm having trouble getting this down. I haven't done it yet. Sometimes I SH a nair and other times I DJnair. I read the "more info" in the video, but it's not helping. Do I have to turn around after doing it?-thus dragonic reversal?

 

[DstyCube]

Is there any way to speed up my thumb for XXA or should I not be using my thumb for that!?

I use XXA, and I do it all with my thumb. What I do is rest the tip of my thumb so that it is on both the X and A button at the same time. From there, it is just hard work and practice to get the timing down.

I'm having trouble getting this down. I haven't done it yet. Sometimes I SH a nair and other times I DJnair. I read the "more info" in the video, but it's not helping. Do I have to turn around after doing it?-thus dragonic reversal?

If you are doing a SH nair, you are doing the nair before you input your second jump. If you are getting a DJ nair, then you have to do the DJ nair earlier (faster). It takes some practice to get the timing down just right. You do not have to turn around when you do it.

 

[Ryusuta]

(Edit: Whoops.)

 

[JackieRabbit5]

i've been having some problems with this...i can get it but i can't always get that nice little slide out of it, i just end up walking or running. I guess the timing of the tilt should be after the nair, if so man thats the toughest part of this.

then on the rare occasion i do get it i can't attack fast enough out of it, it happens so quick

any suggestions other than just practice?

 

[Yinlong]

i don't think it has to be an nair, so you can do any aerial and it would be easier...

 

[bigman40]

You should start the tilt when you push the DJ and Atk buttons together. Do it later, and you won't slide.

When you get the DR itself down, the next part is atking. You pretty much have to add in another button after the DJ and Aerial to get it out that quick. Or you can rush your thumb to the C-stick after you input the buttons.

Edit: It doesn't matter what aerial you do. The only reason it's needed is because it cancels the DJ. Inputting a different aerial won't make it easier.

 

[JackieRabbit5]

ok thanks alot that really helps...i think i'm starting to get the hang of it, now i just have to get it semi-consistent lol

i guess this makes Yoshi pretty special being the only wavedasher in Brawl. :D
Thats why i finally looked into it, that and the Dragonic Trot

 

[BurtonEarny]

ok thanks alot that really helps...i think i'm starting to get the hang of it, now i just have to get it semi-consistent lol

i guess this makes Yoshi pretty special being the only wavedasher in Brawl. :D
Thats why i finally looked into it, that and the Dragonic Trot

hes not really, pit has a "wingdash" thats similar. activate the upb and dair and input a diretion. its pretty slow, however.

 

[bigman40]

Please tell me how useful that tech really is. I've heard nothing fantastic about it.

 

[Deleted member]

Its not very useful. Its also very easy to do, i could do it my first time tryin it.

 

[Sharky]

slow=not wavedash=wingdash not really a dash =P

 

[.Marik]

There's so many Yoshi techniques to practice, but I can't even practice them! My game got stolen, I mean, there's so many, and most of them are really complicated, arrrghh... if only I could practice! >_<

Anyways, this looks fairly easy to do. Not exactly a wavedash...

 

[bigman40]

Only three are complicated (Dragonic Reverse, Dragonic Trot, and the Chaingrab to spike varies). The rest are pretty easy to get down.

Don't be fooled by the DR. Unless you got lightning fingers that can input 3 buttons in like 3 frames, then it's going to take a moment for you to get down entirely.

 

[.Marik]

Spiking is fairly easy.... to be honest with you.. chaingrab, I can also do. And I think I can pull of Dragonic Reverse too... anyways, what's the Dragonic Trot?

And I also think L-Canceling is very similar to tap jumping (hop) only with an aerial attack taking place...

 

[bigman40]

Dragonic Trot is foxtrotting + Dragonic reversing put together.

???? (confused about the Lcanceling) Do you mean L-Canceling from melee?

 

[Chaco]

DT thread is hurr:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191793

 

[.Marik]

Dragonic Trot is foxtrotting + Dragonic reversing put together.

???? (confused about the Lcanceling) Do you mean L-Canceling from melee?

No, I mean L-Canceling in general....