Don't Stop Billievin' Sat. 6/6 -- Chu-dat confirmed -- update: check last post

[Ocean]

[deleted.]

 

[Dark Hart]

So after reading through this whole thing I learned a few things.

1. Bill is a baby and can't deal with MK even though NC doesn't even have any good ones so he's decided to ban him last minute and confuse everyone, even though some people actually like MK and don't mind using him or having him in tournaments i.e. most of NC.
2. Bill sucks at arguing, even though as the tournament host he doesn't exactly have to explain himself.
3. Stingers is awesome
4. ZIO can argue better than Bill about something he doesn't even care about.

and the most important thing...

In my proffessional opinion, I don't think Metaknight should be banned.

Why is MK still banned? ChuDat said he shouldn't be.

All in favor of MK NOT being banned say "aye".

AYE

 

[OmniOstrich]

Bill please do not make a decision before I make my post on the debate.

 

[NC-Echo]

Dark Hart that is not why I am for the mk ban and if thats what you actually think than you deserve less credit that I have ever given you.

lol at the only people who find it necessary to insult me and the fact that they are also some of people who were planning on using mk.

 

[Ocean]

[deleted.]

 

[Dark Hart]

You've given me credit? Aww... how sweet of you.

In my proffessional opinion, I don't think Metaknight should be banned.

... just saying though...

 

[ZIO]

Was ocean trying to challenge me in his edit? If so, his grammar is as broken as Meta Knight; I can't tell.

... just saying though...

B-b-but ITALY? How can you do this when ITALY!?! It's funny cause the boot gave meta the b00t. ^-^

 

[Jon?]

On the lighter side of things, I'm still looking for more MK challengers to $1 MM. Please let me know if you are interested!

 

[Dublio]

Money matches are awesome yumyums. Perhaps I should partake of them this tourny? Ah, who to challenge? Preferably people that will fornicate me and take my money. Hmm....


-Challenges Chu to a money match!- How about for five dollars? It's free monies! Winner is 3 out of 5 matches, so whoever wins 3 matches first wins. (I have no chance but I would at least like to play with you Chu).

 

[stingers]

how come you changed from 3 to 5 dollars dubs?

 

[Dublio]

Oh, you saw that huh? Erm, I figure he would be more likely to accept if it was more money? =3

That way I can say that I played Chu. =D

 

[stingers]

i'm sure he would've friendlied you if you asked lol.

 

[Dublio]

-forgot that Chu is spending the night at Bill's-

Oh right...Well who can turn down free money? Nothing wrong with friendlies and a Money Match right? Muwwhahwhahawh.


So ChuDat...care for friendlies after we do our money match? =3

 

[Dorsey]

so glad I didn't read all of this lol. it doesn't matter that much, c'mon. If bill's wrong about it then it will just be an experiment that didn't fly over too well and it won't happen again, it's not the end of the world. because I agree with bill, MK is pretty stupid.

that being said i don't think he should be banned, esp. with this short of notice. Not that my opinion matters I doubt i'll even enter brawl.

 

[Ocean]

[deleted.]

 

[stingers]

i hope pp is bringing his vcr...i need more vids of my rob for the rob boards.

 

[Shady Penguin]

i hope pp is bringing his vcr...i need more vids of my rob for the rob boards.

He told me he is, and I'll be bringing my vcr too. We should probably record some friendlies against each other.

btw, How will I be seeded for Brawl singles, Bill?

On a more general note, when are the PRs going to updated again?

 

[OmniOstrich]

Here are the most common pro-ban arguments and some retorts for them, please note that this is oriented toward NC banning MK more than SBR banning MK.
'MK has no bad matchups and is unbeatable, especially if he is used by a skilled player'

While MK may not have any 'counterpicks' he does have several neutral matches, and is very beatable. Depending on who you talk to Wario, Diddy, Snake, Falco, and possible also ICs are all neutral or extremely close to it. That means both players have an EQUAL chance of winning, so it is an actual representation of who is the most skilled, and so tournament results will show who has the most skill.​

'A scrubby MK can beat a talented player'

MK goes even with all those characters I mentioned above, and that means that a player that is more skilled with one of the neutral matchup characters WILL WIN. I am very tired of hearing this argument because if MK is a counter, he probably can, but thats how bad matchups work. A scrubby DDD can beat a talented DK bc its a terrible match (and don't argue about me with DDD vs DK you can choose to insert any character and its hardest counter if you think thats not a bad match).​

'Banning MK would make lots of characters viable for tournament play.'

How many Low/Bottom tier characters are made unviable by MK alone? DDD and Falco's CG's make all the same characters unviable.​

'In every situation MK is always the best choice'

Why choose MK vs Wario, Diddy, Snake, Falco and IC's when they all have 30-70 matches against another character?​

'MK cannot be counterpicked on stages bc he has no bad stages.'

Ifyou think MK vs Any of his Nuetral matchups on one of their best stages is not bad for MK you are mistaken. MK on Brinstar vs Snake is definitely a bad stage.​

'MK over centralizes brawl'

Nobody has ever won an NC tournament using MK alone(I would venture to say there have never been more than 3 MK users in the top8 at an NC tournament.) That statement alone really seems to make the point moot. I honestly think there are equal or more Snake users than MK users in NC.​

I would also like to restate that banning MK in NC gives any player from NC a considerably smaller chance of placing well at OOS tournaments. You have said that they will get practice, but do you really think so? They will have to practice with someone from OOS in order to do well, bc none of us will have practiced with MK enough to know the matchups and be comparable to someone who mains the character. Currently all of our PRed players show a lot of promise and could probably place top8 at some large regional tournaments, I think it is in our best interest to support them.

EDIT: I tried not to make this a long-winded post, so bear with me >_>

 

[stingers]

I'm pretty sure MK won't be banned Omni, but thanks for the post.

 

[Ocean]

i hope pp is bringing his vcr...i need more vids of my rob for the rob boards.

I will also be recording.

 

[OmniOstrich]

I'm pretty sure MK won't be banned Omni, but thanks for the post.

I really think that the more the meta-game for other characters develops the more diverse tournament results will become. I keep going back and forth between pro-ban and anti-ban but now that I have played MK for myself I feel like he isn't nearly as broken as he is cut out to be.

 

[ZIO]

Good stuff, Omni. I respect that.

But it just sounds like we need more time, then. Two things will come out of it - Ban or Non-ban. As always, I am all for the ban. Only time will tell which direction Meta knight will glide in.

 

[Lightsyde]

75% chance I'm coming.

The name of this tournament is top tier.

 

[NC-Echo]

@ omni: I disagree with almost every point you made but I am not ready right now to actually tell you why, because I have other things to get to. I'll get back to you on the issue later.

As far as the ban for this tournament goes, I had originally planned to not ban him. I however got extremely annoyed when people decided to personally attack me. I don't feel like going into detail because it is not necessary. I think mk is ban worthy. I have yet to see an argument that I believe refutes my opinion. I have done a lot of work trying to find ways to counter mk with various characters and I wholeheartedly believe that the mk should always win regardless of stage or character if the mk is of equal and often times lower skill level. Back to the point, mk will not be banned at this tournament. Like I said I had originally decided not to ban him and later I decided to reconsider when I started catching a lot of ****. Please in the future, if you disagree with me then tell me, don't tell me I'm a baby and that I can't handle it because even if thats what you think, it does not help. If thats what you think, then fine but I think that any intelligent person would understand that that kind of statement does nothing but exacerbate the situation.

Lastly, this post (except for the start) was not directed at anyone in particular.

 

[Jon?]

Ah so the dispute has ended.

@Ocean, I have about 5+ MM going on that day. It'd be nice to have you around to record some matches. I need some videos of me playing well unlike the ones already on Youtube (i.e Peanut gimp, blame Shady, Keith, and Omni!). By the way, what part of Cary do you live in? We gotta play some time.

 

[-ACE-]

Ok, I guess I'll show up then.

 

[Dublio]

ooo I just remembered why I wanted the money match instead of friendlies with Chu. So I can use Bill's infinite replay wii to record the matches and save them on wii to remember forever. =3

Btw, I'm not sure if I said it already but I'm bringing a wii and a copy of brawl just in case. =3

 

[Ocean]

[deleted.]

 

[Shady Penguin]

Ok, I guess I'll show up then.

Ganondorf is safe......for now....

 

[-ACE-]

Ganondorf is safe......for now....

Do you have any IDEA what melee Ganon would do to Snake if he actually were to say that in the presence of the Dark Lord himself??

 

[Jon?]

I live right near Walnut street, and Kildare Farm. I'm basically right across the Cary Elementary Playground. And yeah, I'll record for you. =D

Walnut and Kildare. Hmm..that's near the Cary Towne Center right? I live on the other side of Cary, near the Cary YMCA.

Ace brought up the Dark Lord. Back to Star Wars quotes or shall we start doing Harry Potter?

 

[OmniOstrich]

Walnut and Kildare. Hmm..that's near the Cary Towne Center right? I live on the other side of Cary, near the Cary YMCA.

Ace brought up the Dark Lord. Back to Star Wars quotes or shall we start doing Harry Potter?

Do you want to team with Zero/Shannon at this? I convinced him to go as long as he gets a ride.

 

[stingers]

Btw, my Wii has infinite replay/Replay with tags/character and stage texture hacks/music hacks (hold a button on the stage select screen and a different song will play depending on the button you hold). But don't use it for teams because you'll be confused as hell...unless you want to switch it to normal brawl for teams, that's cool too

Oh, and I don't need a Wiimote for my Wii, so that's a plus too :D

Edit: and I have a Sith Meta Knight texture.

 

[Jon?]

If I don't get a response from the people I've ask, I may.

@Stingers: No wiimote to turn on your Wii!?!? That's the best hack ever. Wii-motes = noob, thus Shady Penguin = noob.

 

[Ragnar0k]

I just don't want things getting too ban happy around here, we already have one of the strictest stage lists. If you want to nerf mk reduce ledge grab count but don't ban him, it's unnecessary.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Stingers how do you do it. I need to know.

 

[stingers]

raggy, did you see the topic for my tournament? tell me what you think about my stage list, i'm in favor of more lax stage lists...

how do i do what?

 

[NC-Echo]

I just don't want things getting too ban happy around here, we already have one of the strictest stage lists. If you want to nerf mk reduce ledge grab count but don't ban him, it's unnecessary.

I think it is necessary but again, for now that is beside the point.


I will likely be enacting a rule to limit planking. Probably a judge or something. Hopefully no one has a huge problem with that.

 

[Shady Penguin]

Do you have any IDEA what melee Ganon would do to Snake if he actually were to say that in the presence of the Dark Lord himself??

Of course I do. He would take a broken f-tilt to the face.

 

[Jon?]

Regarding planking, I think we should go on the trust system. Planking is not allowed but it can't be monitored every match. If you have at least one spectator, this shouldn't be an issue.