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Mario Universe Donkey Kong Country Returns!

kupo15

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Easy. If your going to make a good retro games, at least make the controls similar since they were just about perfect. Here are all the differences between this and the old games that I noticed really quickly:

Controls:
Rolling: You roll by shaking+left/right. In the past, rolling was done by simply pressing the Y button. No direction is needed. True story. I couldn't figure out how to roll in DKCR with the wiimote version but it was no problem with the CC.

PHYSICS DIFFERENCES: In DKC if you hit an enemy, your roll time was extended and your speed increased. Now I find myself getting hit out of a roll when I try to roll past a line of enemies that are close to each other.

----------------

Running and grabbing items: Used to be the same button a the roll but now they are two separate buttons. This is unnecessary and makes things sloppy. There is no point in making an actual grabbing animation. All games that I've played that has an awkward "missed grabbed" animation was very awkward and sloppy feeling. 1 button for all of these actions is much simpler, intuitive and worked perfectly in DKC. Why change it?

Air control: This is much weaker than in DKC (I should have guessed since its a recent trend in Nintendo games) The problem with this is apparent with the roll jump. I love how the roll jump gives you so much momentum but the natural physics is too weak to make it easily controllable. Its not impossible just sloppy.

----------------------

Getting hit: If you got hit in mid air, after switching you automatically do a midair jump to help get your footing back. In DKCR, that jump doesn't happen. There is also little to no point in the pause that takes place when you are hit since you aren't switching out monkeys anymore.

-------------------

***My number 1 mechanic complaint!!

BOUNCING OFF OF ENEMIES!!:
In DKC when you bounced off of enemies, if you wanted the super jump all you had to do was hold the jump button as you bounced. Simple and it worked and felt so good. In DKCR you have to time the jump button. Rather pointless. Also, your air control is weak in comparison.

This is the worst part. The animation. A weak bounce does this weird arm dangle hop thing and the strong one does the flip....that is NOT continuous!! You may think that this is just superficial but trust me, it really is a major flaw. In DKC, since you are in the flip the entire time until you touch the ground, your flip hitbox is active the entire time!. But in DKCR since one jump doesn't flip and the second only flips for the first half second, you are completely vulnerable to getting hit out. This means that hitting enemies from below is barely possible.

Its also happened to me where two enemies are far apart and I end up getting hurt by the second one because I didn't land "perfectly" center on top of them and ended up hitting the side. In DKC this wasn't a problem because you would be in the flip animation thus it would count as a hit instead of getting hurt but in DKCR the flip animation ended ages ago.

DKC rule. Once you bounce off of someone, you are totally invincible throughout the entire jump unless you hit something that is not able to be killed.



I'm sure I'll find other fundamental differences.
 

BirthNote

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I instantly noticed the rolling thing, but I ignored it by simply rolling into 1 enemy and quickly jumping onto the others. Plus, having Diddy roll you through them solves this problem. He may not be with you all the time, but there are other ways to get through an enemy line.

And I thought that having the kongs freeze up when they get hit was just a reference to the older games, in which every time DK, Diddy, Dixie, Kiddy, the bosses (most of them) and K.Rool got hit, they would pause and look at the screen.

Anyway, what controllers do you guys use for this game? Personally I'd use the nunchuck.
 

Angbad

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complaints


All of these are really minor things IMO. You're just trying to find things wrong with it. Sure, at first in the first world i had to get used to all the new control difs, but after that it was all good. Stop talking about having to do things perfectly. It's really not that hard dude.

And the new jumps we a bit tough to master but they weren't destroying the game. Roll jumping works great, you just have to be good lol. Like my dad is pathetic. ^^

You get used to the changes, and for the most part, they're totally fine.

I'm at like 180%, there are very few problems with the controls.

Camera more zoomed out? What?
 

kupo15

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If you say so buddy. I'm glad you are happy with a DKC game without its staple DKC game mechanics. I wasn't trying to find problems with it. The mere fact that I even got it proves it. I don't buy games to find the flaws. Trust me. I'm not that rich.

Everything I mentioned is significant complaints even if they are small. A lot of small problems is just as bad as one big one. If I really wanted to be picky, I would ask why balloons don't have faces and different colors and why the midpoint save was replaced with a ******* pig stand and where are the other kong stands.

Thats the problem with you new gamers. You are perfectly content with settling for less. I thought the creators did their DKC homework. Apparently not
 

Terywj [태리]

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Thats the problem with you new gamers. You are perfectly content with settling for less. I thought the creators did their DKC homework. Apparently not
"New"? You're calling us "new"? You can stand there and make that remark about us without knowing our ages or development in gaming history. It's funny how that works, isn't it?
 

kupo15

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It is isnt it. Your either new or clueless older gamers based on the fact that you are defending the lack of prevalent game mechanics that made DKC so smooth to play. I'm not saying its a terrible game because its design is pretty good in recent times but I'm not going to sit back and not notice the subtle details that are lacking and I'm sure as hell am not going to defend the game for not having them.

All I wanted was an acknowledgement that my observations are correct and that the game would have controlled better if they were there. (which in fact would be the case)
 

Eternal Yoshi

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I'll acknowledge them as I agree.

The thing is, after 2008, I lowered my expectations for all first party games because of their E3 2008 press conference which can be best described as "Cool Story Bro".

Sonic 4 has issues as well with it's physics, but that's another story.
 

kupo15

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That's a relief knowing that I'm not alone. Thanks.

Yea I lowered my expectations but for some reason had hope for this game. The only other game I'm considering getting is the next zelda but if that game disappoints then it seems like I'll officially done with new games. I'll just stick with melee and my retro systems.

As much as I would love to have the same enjoyment from the higher standards nintendo, its for the best.

On a side note, Eternal, I have no idea how you can deal with the default controller. I wouldn't continue this game if I had to shake the controller to do a roll.
 

Lord Viper

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☯ I just started Time Trails in world 6. I wonder if I should 200% complete this game today or before this year. I'll see if I can perform completing it today.

☯ Over all, I'll still say Time Trails is harder than Mirror Mode.
 

Ryu Shimazu

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See, I've beaten DKC... and there were so many deaths that "Shouldn't have happened" because sometimes the controls didn't feel "so amazing".

on DCKR, I've never said that, ever.

Except once with a roll jump that was done accidently(sp), but still.

Sorry to break it to you, but I've gamed since the SNES, so I'm not just biased. I love old games, especially the old hard rpgs and such.

The thing is, I've read so many of your posts and I've never seen you like ONE NEW game that is post N64/PS1/ era.

Now here is my theory:

A) You're very poor/have a poor family, so all you can play is old stuff mostly. I could get this, as I was like that all my life until I got a job recently. Still, hater's be hatin', huh?

B) You have nostalgia goggles glued to your retina's

C) You're just overly biased on new games

D) All of them/a mix of these.

I love Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask. I believe they are to be the best Zelda games of all time. But does that mean...that Skyward Sword sucks? no, it's different. I bet you think it sucks.

I bet you think that Sonic Colors sucks too because it's not 32bit or his jumping is "a bit off".

It just gets really annoying. Why be on a forum that discusses a lot of modern games you hate them all. I realize I'm seriously being a jerk, but if you go through your whole life nitpicking everything that's wrong, you'll never:

- Be happy
- Get laid
- Get a job(if you have one, sorry, maybe you don't voice your opinion irl)

Sheesh.
 

kupo15

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See, I've beaten DKC... and there were so many deaths that "Shouldn't have happened" because sometimes the controls didn't feel "so amazing".

on DCKR, I've never said that, ever.

Except once with a roll jump that was done accidently(sp), but still.
We are reversed
The thing is, I've read so many of your posts and I've never seen you like ONE NEW game that is post N64/PS1/ era.
Wrong. GC was good and so was excitetruck, super princess peach was good also
Now here is my theory:

A) You're very poor/have a poor family, so all you can play is old stuff mostly. I could get this, as I was like that all my life until I got a job recently. Still, hater's be hatin', huh?
wrong
B) You have nostalgia goggles glued to your retina's
Maybe. But one can't help noticing the trend that control is turning into molasses.
C) You're just overly biased on new games
I wouldn't be if they felt good to control

I love Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask. I believe they are to be the best Zelda games of all time. But does that mean...that Skyward Sword sucks? no, it's different. I bet you think it sucks.
SS isn't out yet. TP was good on the GC. soooo wrong again.
I bet you think that Sonic Colors sucks too because it's not 32bit or his jumping is "a bit off".
This has no significance since I'm not a Sonic fanboy.

It just gets really annoying. Why be on a forum that discusses a lot of modern games you hate them all.
Its annoying seeing you all not notice the differences and recognize which is the superior game engine.
I realize I'm seriously being a jerk,
You can say that again
but if you go through your whole life nitpicking everything that's wrong, you'll never:

- Be happy
- Get laid
- Get a job(if you have one, sorry, maybe you don't voice your opinion irl)
Check, check and check. I appreciate your concern but don't. You mistaken my nitpickiness for passion for the subject. I have a lot going for me outside of video games but I'd like to know how you would feel if was once one of your favorite past times turned rotten.

I will have no problems with anything that you mentioned on that list. (though those assumptions were extremely rude, thanks) I'm an easy going guy. Trust me.

sheesh
 

Ryu Shimazu

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We are reversed
Wrong. GC was good and so was excitetruck, super princess peach was good also
wrong
Maybe. But one can't help noticing the trend that control is turning into molasses.
I wouldn't be if they felt good to control

SS isn't out yet. TP was good on the GC. soooo wrong again.
This has no significance since I'm not a Sonic fanboy.

Its annoying seeing you all not notice the differences and recognize which is the superior game engine.
You can say that againCheck, check and check. I appreciate your concern but don't. You mistaken my nitpickiness for passion for the subject. I have a lot going for me outside of video games but I'd like to know how you would feel if was once one of your favorite past times turned rotten.

I will have no problems with anything that you mentioned on that list. (though those assumptions were extremely rude, thanks) I'm an easy going guy. Trust me.


sheesh

Iirc You were on the SS Forums here downing it because it had motion controls, but you are not Zxeon, so that was my bad. (The Sonic comment)

Really though, a lot of older games controls were not that great. I actually played some DKC today just to see if maybe I'm being stupid, but it doesn't feel perfect at all. Don't get me wrong, waggle is stupid, and the timing A to jump off monsters is infuriating, but the platforming seems unstable. Sometimes it feels like I barely tapped > and I went way over.

You know though, maybe older games have a set control scheme, and newer ones have a new set scheme, and if you're used to one, you have problems with the other one? I dunno, that could all be BS, but when I went from playing SMB3(after I beat it), to Metroid Prime, I had some issues, just saying.

And while I'm sorry my assumptions are rude, you are so harsh on the newer games you never even give them a chance to shine for what they could be. Even if you don't love DCKR, it's better to see that it's out there and competing with the ten thousand fps out there.

Iunno, but I think the biggest gap from old gaming and new gaming is programming(lolduh). I'd argue it's not so much modern programming sucks (or old), but you have to get used to one. So I guess I'm sorry, because I really shouldn't have been so rude. It just feels like theres so much crap this generation, but I felt like this game really tried (and to a good extent, suceeded), :/


Oh btw, (and maybe you said this earlier, but I don't think you have), props to you for not saying Tiki mosnters are unoriginal. Because if you think about it, Kremlings are soooo bland xD.
 

kupo15

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Iirc You were on the SS Forums here downing it because it had motion controls, but you are not Zxeon, so that was my bad. (The Sonic comment)
Yes I was but you are misunderstanding me. SS may be a good game plagued with bad controls. Even though controls is a huge factor in the enjoyment of a game, I can give props to a game for being good even with bad controls. Things like good level design and stuff.

Really though, a lot of older games controls were not that great. I actually played some DKC today just to see if maybe I'm being stupid, but it doesn't feel perfect at all. Don't get me wrong, waggle is stupid, and the timing A to jump off monsters is infuriating, but the platforming seems unstable. Sometimes it feels like I barely tapped > and I went way over.
So maybe the older games controls don't suck its just that you can't handle the sensitivity. I can. In fact, I prefer that and find that to give me the most control. Its like in FPS's. The better player does their best with the high sensitive setting but has a harder time being as good when handed a slower control scheme. Once you go advanced, its hard to go back.

Speaking of jump timing, seeing how I am doing a diddy-less run, I can't imagine the frustration it must be trying to time it with him. You need to time the jump button but doing so also activates the hover rockets which throws off your timing. Bad design lol

You know though, maybe older games have a set control scheme, and newer ones have a new set scheme, and if you're used to one, you have problems with the other one? I dunno, that could all be BS, but when I went from playing SMB3(after I beat it), to Metroid Prime, I had some issues, just saying.
SM3 and Metroid prime are two different games so its hard to compare.

But in any case, that may be true but another difference is the game "intent." Retro games followed the arcade style game design where the better player wins and the worse players get no sympathy and I believe this to hold true for the controls as well. The controls are much slower so that the masses have a better time with it because they would have a hard time controlling the faster sensitive settings.
And while I'm sorry my assumptions are rude, you are so harsh on the newer games you never even give them a chance to shine for what they could be. Even if you don't love DCKR, it's better to see that it's out there and competing with the ten thousand fps out there.
Did you not read that I'm giving DKCR a chance? Did you not see that I said that DKCR is a good game with bad controls? Even though its a different DKC game its not bad. Did you not see that I rated this game HIGHER than one of the retro DKC games? Kinda makes your hating on me seem kinda pointless.
Iunno, but I think the biggest gap from old gaming and new gaming is programming(lolduh). I'd argue it's not so much modern programming sucks (or old), but you have to get used to one. So I guess I'm sorry, because I really shouldn't have been so rude. It just feels like theres so much crap this generation, but I felt like this game really tried (and to a good extent, suceeded), :/
I think the difference between the gens is that imo this gen feels much more manufactured. This holds true for so many things in entertainment. Things can be good but feel forced or fake. I feel like there is no style or attention to detail in the game engines and stuff. Its hard to describe why I feel this way.

This game did try and that is partly the most frustrating part. They claim to recapture the spirit of the DKC games. I notice all the nods to it in the level designs and music and stuff, but its frustrating to see that obvious things are missing. The KONG letters have the same sfx when you collect them but it doesn't do the little jingle after you collect all of them and you don't get an extra life either. Why? You went through the trouble of making half of it like the original. I remember relying on that extra life to not get a game over and lose all my progress and there were times in DKCR where I could have used that extra life.

You bring back the balloons but they have no faces or different colors. Its now just a bland, normal and boring balloon.

You kept the roll jump (made it better) but you can't turn around in a roll in midair anymore. Why? You just removed puzzle options from taking that away.

Why can't you switch? Each character had their own attributes and even the enemies were designed to pose a different challenge to each.

So far I've only seen Rambi once and no one else. You also removed the Rambi tokens and mini games

No more dancing around when you win. No more stomping around when you lose.

Its hard to not notice all the intricate details that are missing in later iterations of the same franchise.

Oh btw, (and maybe you said this earlier, but I don't think you have), props to you for not saying Tiki mosnters are unoriginal. Because if you think about it, Kremlings are soooo bland xD
You might as well take my props away. I mean, I guess it hasn't bothered me much but now that you mention it, I like the Kremlings better.

In DKC it was awesome cause you were a monkey fighting against all the animals in the jungle. Each enemy had very unique movement patterns and variations and attitude. But these tiki guys are no faced, slow uniform creatures that really look very similar. I've played through 2.5 worlds and so far I have yet to encounter the amount of variety and interesting movement patterns and variations of the same enemy that I saw in the first level of DKC.

Think about it. How many times did you have to stop and analyze the enemy patterns to find an opening in DKC vs DKCR? I haven't done it once in DKCR yet in DKC this challenge was presented in the very first level, the vulcher that sprayed 3 nuts. Another one was 2 jumping kremlings that criss cross.

I could go on to compare the amount of enemy variations and try to relate them to the tikis but I wouldn't know where to begin since they all look the same lol. The only thing I can think about is the crabs replacing the claptraps.

Think about it lol.
 

Lord Viper

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☯ More debate about games not being the same again... O_o

☯ But seriously, I haven't seen anyone dislike this game until two people in this thread. Then again, I guess it's possible since some people didn't like Super Mario Galaxy, and I thought that was impossible to dislike. Maybe I'll browse for more peoples opinion on this game.

☯ Anyways... I'm stuck at world 6 Time Trials. T_T
 

BirthNote

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Kupo15, I really don't see those differences as a big deal tbh, but about studying enemy patterns, does the fact that you have less energy in the original three have anything to do with how you approached the foes compared to this one?
 

Ryu Shimazu

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I think it's wrong to say new games suck, maybe just their different? I will admit for a while new games were getting way to easy, but if you know where to look, you can find some really hard ones. (Or make your own challenges)

Controls being oversensitive doesn't make it harder btw, you just have to adapt. I'm just saying maybe you have such a hard time with the new, because the old is different. It doesn't always mean the new sucks. I do understand your hatred for Waggle though. ;)


Anyways on Mirror Mode/TA..but getting the ps3 has slowed my progress.
 

Fried Ice Cream

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Think about it. How many times did you have to stop and analyze the enemy patterns to find an opening in DKC vs DKCR? I haven't done it once in DKCR yet in DKC this challenge was presented in the very first level, the vulcher that sprayed 3 nuts. Another one was 2 jumping kremlings that criss cross.

I haven't played DKC, but oh god this took me back to my Donkey Kong Land for the gameboy
 

kupo15

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☯ More debate about games not being the same again... O_o [COLOR=#eBut seriously, I haven't seen anyone dislike this game until two people in this thread. Then again, I guess it's possible since some people didn't like Super Mario Galaxy, and I thought that was impossible to dislike. Maybe I'll browse for more peoples opinion on this game.[/FONT]


☯ Anyways... I'm stuck at world 6 Time Trials. T_T
I actually like the game. Its been a while since I enjoyed a wii game. Its not so bad once I get over the controls. I'm not saying I agree with the controls and its sensitivity but its much more tolorable than NSMBW was. Although if I didn't have the Classic controller with

Y grab/run
b jump
R shake button

Then I would have quit a while ago.

Kupo15, I really don't see those differences as a big deal tbh, but about studying enemy patterns, does the fact that you have less energy in the original three have anything to do with how you approached the foes compared to this one?
yes yes yes. Sometimes I just blow right past things because I can take the hit and not care even though I am completely abandoning diddy entirely.

I think it's wrong to say new games suck, maybe just their different? I will admit for a while new games were getting way to easy, but if you know where to look, you can find some really hard ones. (Or make your own challenges)

Controls being oversensitive doesn't make it harder btw, you just have to adapt. I'm just saying maybe you have such a hard time with the new, because the old is different. It doesn't always mean the new sucks. I do understand your hatred for Waggle though. ;)


Anyways on Mirror Mode/TA..but getting the ps3 has slowed my progress.
New games of franchises I grew up with suck. They are easy and everyone agrees. They also have waggle controls which doesnt work for those games imo.

DKCR is the only tolorable game I've played in a while and is actually challenging despite the shortcomings it has from its predecessors.
[/COLOR]
 

Ryu Shimazu

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I played some Epic Yarn last week, and the old Kirby games were worse than Yarn imho.

Mario was better on the Snes. The Snes one....is the best, sorry but it's true.


<.< New games of franchises you grew up with may not be as good too you, but don't you still find them better than the swarm of fps that engulfs today?
 

kupo15

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Yarn seems fun but you cant die.

Of course Fps are too rampant. Idk, I'm not too much into fps's only some but I really didn't find any N 1st parties except for DK (2nd party maybe?) to be good because of the controls + no challenge. At least with Fps you can be challenged.

And now that I'm thinking about it, I want to change my mind on the whole approaching enemy patterns because of more health. I probably wouldn't because the enemies are too slow and predicatable to be worried. Only some instances like in the k races since you don't get your lives back.

The health thing is so disappointing. Even though i'm ditching diddy, I always start out as if I had him on the old games. There isn't that being on edge until you get diddy again feeling. :(
 

Ryu Shimazu

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^ Aside from Metroid Prime, I can't stand Fps. I'm not bad at them, I just hate playing them.

You can't die in Epic Yarn, but I always assume real gamers go for 100% :p

DKCR is easy if you don't go for 200%+TA
 

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I actually like the game. Its been a while since I enjoyed a wii game. Its not so bad once I get over the controls. I'm not saying I agree with the controls and its sensitivity but its much more tolorable than NSMBW was. Although if I didn't have the Classic controller with

Y grab/run
b jump
R shake button

Then I would have quit a while ago.
☯ I agree with NSMBW controls, well at least with the Wiimote & Nunchaku, sometimes randomly shake on careful levels lead me to some deaths, lol. Though this game I have to shake harder than NSMBW, I mostly noticed this when playing Time Attack. )=

☯ For Classy Controller controls, I might give that a try... for Time Attack at least.

☯ Sin & Punishment Star Successor is one of the better Wii games to play if you haven't, or if you like Rail Shooters, just wish it had better Co-Op. >.<

I played some Epic Yarn last week, and the old Kirby games were worse than Yarn imho.
☯ Over Kirby Dreamland, Kirby Dreamland 3, Kirby 64, and Kirby Squeak Squad I'll agree. Kirby Dreamland 2, Kirby & The Amazing Mirror, and Kirby Canvas Curse is debatable. But definitely not better than Kirby Adventure/Nightmare In Dreamland and Kirby Super Star/Ultra. But there overall, there's no such thing as a bad Kirby game. =3
 
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so i managed to get this game today.
:L
IT'S TOO DIFFICULT.
:(
Well, not really, but just requires a good amount of patience. but it's beautfullllllllll.
Especially the background interactions,
 

Ryu Shimazu

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Meh, I like the Virtual Channel. And I don't mind most of the waggle, not sure why...

Though atm Dragon Age has me so distracted from this.
 
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Why? As far as I see, Retro did better than Rare could do at this point.

I really wish I could use the GC controller, but that's my only annoyance so far.
the game doesnt actually suck, it only sucks to me.

the roll mechanics in DKC were so good, and still aight in 2 and 3. its too far off from DKC 1. its not even donkey kong country to me anymore, just not what i was looking for.
 

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Got this for Christmas. Have been excited to play for a while now, seeing as how fun it looks. Don't really care about how well it correlates to old games; it could be Whale Frog Nation Comes Back and I'd still like it for a game. Just because it's Donkey Kong doesn't mean it's gotta be the same as the other games. That's what the other games are for...to play them....you don't need a rehash.
 

Terywj [태리]

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So I finally have the game and now playing it, I noticed that if you stay in the barrel cannon long enough, Donkey and Diddy will stick their head out. Nice touch that.
Similarily, if you leave Donkey Kong alone - i.e. no movement whatsoever - for a long enough time he'll pull out his DS and start playing. :)

Dunno about Diddy, though.
 
S

smash brawl player 99021

Guest
I just love some of the artwork in this game.



Very nicely done.
 
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