a good bit of the docs aren't black.
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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
Shroomed
Smash Master
dogy, it's more that the players in norcal/socal have gone to nationals and proven themselves i guess
u gotta test urselves vs the best to gain some rep!
but i'm still curious about who you guys beat
u gotta test urselves vs the best to gain some rep!
but i'm still curious about who you guys beat
TunaCasserole
Smash Journeyman
Sup guys. I'm just here to troll my good buddy OTG. Nah I'm just ****in with you guys. Seriously though, I'm a troll. So, imma post this vid. For all who don't know, OTG is on the left.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GJh8so9T38&has_verified=1
Enjoy doc mains
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GJh8so9T38&has_verified=1
Enjoy doc mains
otg
Smash Master
Wow, good **** Tuna.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I can't unsee it.
otg
Smash Master
I figured that would be something you'd be all over Kirbykaze.
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
i did not enjoy that
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
i won the first game, but then i felt bad and you started playing gayer so i sandbagged itjust a friendly reminder my doc beat you in a moneymatch while my hand was in a cast
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
omg tempest last night after i hung up was HORRIBLE. jesus
I go to tourneys pretty often, but seeing as mine don't matter, who cares? lol.
otg
Smash Master
They would if someone in the south actually made a thread with tourney results and recorded videos. In the meantime they may as well not be happening because one in this community is going to pay attention to tournies that aren't advertised.
It's like any other sport, you can follow the guidelines to get recognition, or you could do some **** underground on your own terms (home game). Which do you think will garner more attention?
VGmasta
Smash Lord
I don't know if I'm goin' to any tournies anytime soon, not that I'm in a big hurry to go to any now. Maybe I can catch Tipped Off 6 in a couple of weeks if I can get a ride there.
I care, I look out for all the Doc players... even the ones that aren't that well-known yet.
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
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- SW-0654 7794 0698
Yeah, I should have been more careful. ;__________ ;
What tournies do you go to often anyways?
Yeah I do too. I mean, Dogy is well known. ****, I think cuz of him I like the color black now. I don't know. But don't get lazy because of some people saying your tournies don't matter...
I mean... cmon! I'm tired of not seeing the Doc forums being active.. or just the doc thread. This one I mean.
I want to talk about matchups and stuff... like MARTH. Or FOX. OR SHIEK. ****.
VGmasta
Smash Lord
That's what happens when ain't nothin poppin'. There's nothin' special stuff happening with Doc right now that the general public knows about, besides Mr Camerahog gettin' off on the West coast, <3 Shroomed lol.
All those matchups would just raise 100 johns that have been covered hundreds of times already in here and in the three matchup guides....
I myself haven't had any specific questions about matchups for awhile. I'm still finding ways around stuff. But it's kinda research that I have to do on my own. So I barely post in here about matchups now.
Other than that, it's just gonna be like, "Fox is too fast to control unless you're actually getting hits in and comboing.... Sheik has hitboxes that wall out Doc, plus a tilt system that combo Doc to death, just a broken offense altogether.... And I don't even get me started on Marth..."
Rostigalen
Smash Journeyman
Activity help?
So, I'm a pretty mediocre Doc main from Sweden (PAL FTW). I need some help counterpicking against...well, most of the top tiers. Against Fox I go FD (I'm pretty adept at chaingrabbing) and if that one is banned, I'll pick DL64. The reason is that I'll get most of my kills during edgeguarding, and the high ceiling allows me to survive for a long time. I pick FD against Falco as well, but I haven't found any solid second picks. Help me out with counterpicks against Falco, Marth and Shiek please?
So, I'm a pretty mediocre Doc main from Sweden (PAL FTW). I need some help counterpicking against...well, most of the top tiers. Against Fox I go FD (I'm pretty adept at chaingrabbing) and if that one is banned, I'll pick DL64. The reason is that I'll get most of my kills during edgeguarding, and the high ceiling allows me to survive for a long time. I pick FD against Falco as well, but I haven't found any solid second picks. Help me out with counterpicks against Falco, Marth and Shiek please?
ranmaru
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2008
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- 13,297
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- SW-0654 7794 0698
You know I once took a Marth to Yoshi Story? I beat him there too... Although I am no good with platforms, but hopefully I wouldn't be above them...
I think Counter-picking depends on your weaknesses and strengths.
Like, for me, my Chain grabbing isn't as good against Fox. So I wouldn't take him to FD. He'd probably ban that anyways. (in alternate strike) I'd strike Dreamland 64, since the flatforms are easier for him to get up to, I think.
You know... I just thought that since the platforms are so high, maybe it would be good to take Marth there. I mean, I don't usually kill off the top. I'd gimp.
My stregth seems to be in gimping.
So with fox and Falco: I like to take them to Yoshi Story since the stage is pretty low. It's like if they fall by accident, they are closer to the bottom blast zones than if they were on FoD (the stage is like wayyyyyy above the blast zones).
Also, against Falco, you can get to him even faster, and you won't have much trouble with his lazers as if you were on FD.
With Sheik I'm still thinking about that...
So:
Marth: DreamLand 64
Fox: Yoshi Story
Falco: Yoshi Story
Sheik: N/A
I'm sure you'll do fine if you can edgeguard well.
Although I don't think you should be worrying about how long you can survive, but instead how fast you can kill. (Don't rush it and don't drag it on either)
I think Counter-picking depends on your weaknesses and strengths.
Like, for me, my Chain grabbing isn't as good against Fox. So I wouldn't take him to FD. He'd probably ban that anyways. (in alternate strike) I'd strike Dreamland 64, since the flatforms are easier for him to get up to, I think.
You know... I just thought that since the platforms are so high, maybe it would be good to take Marth there. I mean, I don't usually kill off the top. I'd gimp.
My stregth seems to be in gimping.
So with fox and Falco: I like to take them to Yoshi Story since the stage is pretty low. It's like if they fall by accident, they are closer to the bottom blast zones than if they were on FoD (the stage is like wayyyyyy above the blast zones).
Also, against Falco, you can get to him even faster, and you won't have much trouble with his lazers as if you were on FD.
With Sheik I'm still thinking about that...
So:
Marth: DreamLand 64
Fox: Yoshi Story
Falco: Yoshi Story
Sheik: N/A
I'm sure you'll do fine if you can edgeguard well.
Although I don't think you should be worrying about how long you can survive, but instead how fast you can kill. (Don't rush it and don't drag it on either)
Mr.Lemon
Smash Journeyman
Dogysamich......Your the ****. Your style of doc is amazing, and the humor you add into your guides...funny as ****. I would probably be "that one person in the world that cares" I know this has nothing to do with this tread but whatever, i just wanted to let you know how awesome you are.
BigWenz
Smash Ace
this is my first time posting in the doc forms since ive switched to doc a couple months ago but heres my input anyway
fox/falco FD/ Dreamland/ Stadium in that order that if given the choice where i would go
FD cause obv CG's are very nice and even if u gettin ***** in a stock u get that one grab and it can lead to a stock which is nice
Dreamland cause for me i like having lots of space to work with plus again with the seperation of the platforms u can get ur CG on plus plenty of room to if you so desire to camp with pills. Now i know camping with pills against fox and falco wont lead to too much but at the very least it gives u a little breathing and time to think if somethings not going well
Stadium while obv the low ceiling = dying stupid early from foxs up smash but if ur at upsmash kill % most foxes are gonna try their hardest to get it so since u know its coming u can take steps to avoid that upsmash. Furthermore again this may just be my bias as i love chaingrabbing fox and falco the seperation between platforsm means u can get some nice damage on them with the cg plus u can follow them on to the platform once they land their and either get a regrab on platform read the tech and fair it or do anything that can rack up more damage and/or possibly send them off stage for an edgeguarding oppurtunity
marth - see fox and falco only this time its because against marth i like having space to work with. also
order change id go dreamland (so big and marth has a hard time killing unless u get tippered on this stage) then FD then PS. PS(is last only cause the sides are shorter thus if you get tippered higher chance of u dying)
yoshi's is obv a no - no since its so small and marths sword is like half the length of the stage
battlefield - its bigger but again not as much room to maneuver than other stages plus u get caught on a platform and ur gonna be saying hello to a tipper
FoD -u have some room here and if ur comfortable here id say go for it but i personally despise that stage(used to be a falcon main so thats where the hatred comes from lol) but again not as much room to work with and the boundaries are short so u die from tippers easier
Sheik - i honestly have no idea what to do in this match up i guess i just need more experience sadly the only sheiks in MD/VA is tope who i have only played once and that was in teams and laijin who i dont get to play that often in tourny. Anyway with sheik its honestly whatever stage u feel most comfortable on cause no matter what the stage her game plan stays the same tilts downthrows and fairs in ur face. If you can do the CG on her then see list for fox/falco. if not then i say u choose stages with more space only cause again more space to pill which means they have to do something to stop it unless they wanna eat like 10% off one projectile over and over again and when tehy do that it gives u more time to think/a lil breathing room
fox/falco FD/ Dreamland/ Stadium in that order that if given the choice where i would go
FD cause obv CG's are very nice and even if u gettin ***** in a stock u get that one grab and it can lead to a stock which is nice
Dreamland cause for me i like having lots of space to work with plus again with the seperation of the platforms u can get ur CG on plus plenty of room to if you so desire to camp with pills. Now i know camping with pills against fox and falco wont lead to too much but at the very least it gives u a little breathing and time to think if somethings not going well
Stadium while obv the low ceiling = dying stupid early from foxs up smash but if ur at upsmash kill % most foxes are gonna try their hardest to get it so since u know its coming u can take steps to avoid that upsmash. Furthermore again this may just be my bias as i love chaingrabbing fox and falco the seperation between platforsm means u can get some nice damage on them with the cg plus u can follow them on to the platform once they land their and either get a regrab on platform read the tech and fair it or do anything that can rack up more damage and/or possibly send them off stage for an edgeguarding oppurtunity
marth - see fox and falco only this time its because against marth i like having space to work with. also
order change id go dreamland (so big and marth has a hard time killing unless u get tippered on this stage) then FD then PS. PS(is last only cause the sides are shorter thus if you get tippered higher chance of u dying)
yoshi's is obv a no - no since its so small and marths sword is like half the length of the stage
battlefield - its bigger but again not as much room to maneuver than other stages plus u get caught on a platform and ur gonna be saying hello to a tipper
FoD -u have some room here and if ur comfortable here id say go for it but i personally despise that stage(used to be a falcon main so thats where the hatred comes from lol) but again not as much room to work with and the boundaries are short so u die from tippers easier
Sheik - i honestly have no idea what to do in this match up i guess i just need more experience sadly the only sheiks in MD/VA is tope who i have only played once and that was in teams and laijin who i dont get to play that often in tourny. Anyway with sheik its honestly whatever stage u feel most comfortable on cause no matter what the stage her game plan stays the same tilts downthrows and fairs in ur face. If you can do the CG on her then see list for fox/falco. if not then i say u choose stages with more space only cause again more space to pill which means they have to do something to stop it unless they wanna eat like 10% off one projectile over and over again and when tehy do that it gives u more time to think/a lil breathing room
Rostigalen
Smash Journeyman
Regarding spacies, Ranmaru, if your strength is in gimping, then the blast zones should be as far away as possible to make it easier for yourself to survive. I think Battlefield would be better than Yoshi's in that case, because while it's still pretty close to the bottom blast zone, you can survive upwards and to the side easily. I still prefer FD due to the chaingrabbing.
The problem with Marth is that I find him hard to gimp, his Up-B is very quick and you have to guess when you should use the cape, if you want to gimp him with that. I think that DL64 would have been better in this match-up had the area around the stage been smaller. Problem is, the platforms are perfect for Marth on every other stage.
I am not sure how Doc benefits from platforms at all in this match up, except maybe the ones on DL64 due to their height. I think I'd go, in order, DL64>FD>Yoshi's(you'll die early, but so will he and he can't go too low to mess up your edgeguarding)>PS>BF>FoD.
Against Shiek, I think you can chaingrab pretty successfully on every stage, except maybe FoD and Yoshi's. I am not very experienced in the match-up though, so I can't say which stages are good or not - I'd avoid DL64 though. I am pretty sure a low ceiling would be preferable, so Yoshi's or PS could be good stages.
The problem with Marth is that I find him hard to gimp, his Up-B is very quick and you have to guess when you should use the cape, if you want to gimp him with that. I think that DL64 would have been better in this match-up had the area around the stage been smaller. Problem is, the platforms are perfect for Marth on every other stage.
I am not sure how Doc benefits from platforms at all in this match up, except maybe the ones on DL64 due to their height. I think I'd go, in order, DL64>FD>Yoshi's(you'll die early, but so will he and he can't go too low to mess up your edgeguarding)>PS>BF>FoD.
Against Shiek, I think you can chaingrab pretty successfully on every stage, except maybe FoD and Yoshi's. I am not very experienced in the match-up though, so I can't say which stages are good or not - I'd avoid DL64 though. I am pretty sure a low ceiling would be preferable, so Yoshi's or PS could be good stages.
ranmaru
Smash Legend
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Sure, well the more chances we can survive, the same goes for our opponent. We aren't fast fallers, so we can control NOT DYING. I mean, why would I need to worry about surviving if I can gimp well? (Meaning if I couldn't gimp well then I should be worried because I'd probably get attacked if I missed) On Yoshi's, I would only die if I baired and fast falled without jumping early enough. That, was my fault.
Now, with FoD, you have tons of space for gimping if you are worried about survival. I mean, the stage is HIGH up while the blastzones are really far below.
ok sure we can chaing grab fox on FD, but he has open space to laser us. Some foxxes CAN camp if they want to. That's just bad. srs, my friend opted to doing that. I beat his fox before, and then he opted to the most effecient tactic. So I don't want to go to FD unless my grabbing game and chain grabbing is on point. You need platforms so that you can avoid them, and they will jump to laser you.
Also, should chain grabbing be your only answer? Don't rely on it that much unless you can get it off all four stocks. Remember that Fox is a fast one.
Although being able to survive side-ways and upwards is a good thing.
==========
Against Falco, I don't think you should let him have space. He has lasers and that can lead to shines and pillars. So you want a stage that is more up and personal. So either FoD, Yoshi's, or BattleField.
One other thing, with Pokemon Stadium and Battle Field, us as Docs can't sweetspot the edge. So consider that as well.
=========================================
Well with Marth, we can't always cape his recovery. Especially if he sweetspots. So also consider... the bair. The bob$. Just get out there before Marth reaches the edge, and bair. It's hard to bair him and scary too, since he can attack you and recover lol.
Also, have you guys ever played on the stages you don't like against these characters? I took Marth to Yoshi's in tournament and I beat him there. :]
With Sheik...She would probably die upwards. Just chain grab... and FORCE her to upb on the stage so you can punch her. You have time.
Maybe you do need more space against her. Maybe I should go FD/PS/DL64 for her.
Shroomed
Smash Master
dogy, people would care more about ur tourneys if ur players would try to go out and prove themselves against the well known players
it's like being the best smash player in ur group of friends
who cares unless ur friends are out there beating dashizwiz and such
jus go to more stuff and recording always helps cuz it's more fun to watch matches than simply read results
i never get to play FD anymore, europe is lucky
yoshi's story is a good stage vs any character cuz dsmash and fair eat people alive there
it's like being the best smash player in ur group of friends
who cares unless ur friends are out there beating dashizwiz and such
jus go to more stuff and recording always helps cuz it's more fun to watch matches than simply read results
i never get to play FD anymore, europe is lucky
yoshi's story is a good stage vs any character cuz dsmash and fair eat people alive there
VGmasta
Smash Lord
I'm starting to find uses for Yoshi Story vs. campiest mutha****as... even Marth. The other stages are too big, and they just roast marshmallows all night. Pick Yoshi Story vs. campers people.
Rainbow Cruise is dumb and pointless, Kongo Jungle 64 is horrible... I'm not sure if I'd even go Doc on those to stupidass stages.
Rainbow Cruise is dumb and pointless, Kongo Jungle 64 is horrible... I'm not sure if I'd even go Doc on those to stupidass stages.
otg
Smash Master
I'm really starting to love Yoshi's myself, and I'm growing to hate FD in general. Good thing most people ban it vs. me.
This mix tape is soooooo hilarious
If for nothing else, get it for "Momma, Merc Me a PBnX Samich". **** is so hilarious.
Shouts to TRC for keepin it real.
Shroomed
Smash Master
I beat lucky for the first time today =)
in 2 sets
I'm trapped in Sunnyvale tho
in 2 sets
I'm trapped in Sunnyvale tho
otg
Smash Master
Really good sets from CGCXXI or w'e it was. It's pretty sick that the top 3 were all mid tiers.
Shroomed
Smash Master
How the **** do u fite pikachu
Rostigalen
Smash Journeyman
"How the **** do u fite pikachu"
Cuz backair you're my everything, you all I ever choose...That would be my bet.
I also just watched those matches, really nice play Shroomed.
Cuz backair you're my everything, you all I ever choose...That would be my bet.
I also just watched those matches, really nice play Shroomed.
Shroomed
Smash Master
I tried to convince axe to go falco, but he wouldn't =(
that was the first time I ever fought pikachu
that was the first time I ever fought pikachu
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
dsmash like a *****
#1: Never be above the pika. That gets you destroyed by u.airs.
#2: Actually chaingrab instead of doing some half *** "ima start and then u.smash him away." Nobody lets me say fox/falco gets destroyed by chaingrabs, but pika is one of the characters that straight gets DESTROYED by doc's chaingrab
#3: Stay in shield (read: on the ground) more. You were aight at shielding his approach, but you kept trying to fight and run (specifically jump). What's he going to beat your shield with? A grab? His grab range is worse than yours and really dont lead to anything save maybe an u.smash.
*sidenote: dont let him b.throw you near the ledge at low% for that leads to double agility / f.tilt edgeguards. Pika's f.tilt edgeguard pretty much destroys anything you can do to get up*
#4: On his recovery, know that pika CANNOT sweetspot the ledge from below. It's literally impossible. I know you dont care why, just know he cant; he has to go above the ledge with the 1st agility then back down with the 2nd. If you don't think that's going to happen, cape or d.smash (or grab the ledge)
#5: On your recovery, you have to be real mindful of the fact that pika really just wants to jump out there and hit you, and he's got 3 angles he can come from. Above with a d.air, straight with a n.air, from below with a u.air. Don't be in such a hurry to throw pills.
___
Waffles and whoever was telling you to throw pills to slow him down, and that actually works to some degree on a good bit of the pikas you'll play. I'm hard pressed to believe that'd work on axe specifically because his whole gameplan was fast/close spacing so that you couldn't pill.