Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[GoodGrief741]

Also I cannot fathom how Banjo can be your favourite trailer tbh. The CG is literally the exact same as K.Rool's, not even changing the beats beyond "Hey here's a random Jiggie in the house" when you could have recreated the intro from the original game but nah let's make it have the exact same joke. You can say it's actually super clever because lol Rare but idk, everyone else gets a unique trailer so saying your favourite is the one that's completely recycled in every way feels off as it comes across as "The trailers themselves do not matter". Then again multiple people said that they wouldn't enjoy Banjo anymore if they changed a single move's sound effect so I'm probably gonna get jumped on for saying you can do something better that can also sell people who don't know them lmao

I mean, yeah? I don't think it's far-fetched to say that who the fighter is is a big factor in how much people enjoy a trailer. That's what gives them longevity beyond the initial surprise.

Like, yeah, Sephiroth's trailer is a masterpiece, infinitely rewatchable and one of the best in Smash, without a doubt. But not even then first bars of OWA give me the same hit of dopamine that seeing that Jiggy bounce across the screen does, even 2 years later.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

"The Fighter's Pass has been so hype thus far! Whoever FP5 is, they're going to be a big deal." Bam, .

Let's be real though, people would have accepted him in an alternate scenario where he only was the 5th Fire Emblem character added to Smash after Robin. Fire Emblem Three Houses is a highly regarded game, so in this scenario, he'd be as hated as .

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder if the final Smash DLC character will shatter another one of our many arcane "rules".

Last one caught us all off guard thanks to our assumptions on Mii costumes.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Our vigorous analysis of these words reminds me of a few days ago, when we made fun of GameFAQs users who believed that Yoshiaki Koizumi's smile when announcing The Final Battle meant it had to be someone big like Master Chief. Have we gone as far as them? Would we be making fun of what we're doing if instead GameFAQs was doing it?

Your post reminded me of this tweet

Smash fans when Sakurai goes to the grocery store (possible smash tease) pic.twitter.com/q1K8Il1Oq3

— Silvia Goes Nuts (@SilviaFoxtris) October 3, 2021

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I wonder if the final Smash DLC character will shatter another one of our many arcane "rules".

Last one caught us all of guards thanks to our assumptions on Mii costumes.

Imagine the double whammy if they had Bomberman as the final character, shattering the AT and Mii Costume rules in one go.

 

[FriskyFritter]

Imagine the double whammy if they had Bomberman as the final character, shattering the AT and Mii Costume rules in one go.

I would be content for the rest of my life.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, yeah? I don't think it's far-fetched to say that who the fighter is is a big factor in how much people enjoy a trailer. That's what gives them longevity beyond the initial surprise.

Like, yeah, Sephiroth's trailer is a masterpiece, infinitely rewatchable and one of the best in Smash, without a doubt. But not even then first bars of OWA give me the same hit of dopamine that seeing that Jiggy bounce across the screen does, even 2 years later.

I dunno man, if Sephiroth's trailer was also a repeat of K.Rool but OWA started playing instead of the ground shaking or the Jiggy bouncing there, would it have been nearly as fun? That's my point cause I feel Banjo could have at least had something different, even if you wanted to reuse the setting

 

[N3ON]

Reception to Bayonetta was always divisive: in the lead up, in her reveal, and in what followed. It only mellowed out during Ultimate. And yes, eventually it would become about her gameplay, but initially it was because of her perceived poor fit for Smash, then not only was she revealed as the “ballot winner”, but most characters who are contentious leading up to their reveal have divisive reactions even if people like them later (Cloud, Steve, etc).

Plus she and Corrin were last, and that’s innately going to put you in the line of fire. So some of the backlash was simply owing to her not being someone else as opposed to being her. Batting clean up to Corrin probably also didn’t help.

But if she was received as positively as claimed, people wouldn't be sour as they are recollecting they ballot, because beforehand everyone was quite hopeful. Some unwisely so. Corrin wouldn’t be remembered as negatively as they were, because you’d have had a positive reveal to cushion them more. Like, had you hypothetically revealed Byleth with Banjo, I think that pill would’ve gone down smoother.

I’m not saying there wasn’t also positivity that spawned from her reveal, because there was. Bayo did have some people hype and some people excited. I’m saying feelings were pretty all over the place, and ranged widely. The gameplay might be the negativity that people remember, but then again people also seem to forget that Ryu and Cloud were also pretty divisive at the outset.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I dunno man, if Sephiroth's trailer was also a repeat of K.Rool but OWA started playing instead of the ground shaking or the Jiggy bouncing there, would it have been nearly as fun? That's my point cause I feel Banjo could have at least had something different, even if you wanted to reuse the setting

If we're doing a take on K Rool's trailer with him, then it needs to have the long haired shadowed figure with a sword be Alucard smugly appearing with the Crissaegrim before Sephiroth knocks him out of the way.

 

[PeridotGX]

kris where the the **** are we now

 

[BlazGreen]

I may be wrong since this happened almost 6 years ago but I do remember the fallout from that final Smash 4 Direct being rough although most of the vitriol was directed at Corrin rather than Bayo.

 

[Garteam]

Let's be real though, people would have accepted him in an alternate scenario where he only was the 5th Fire Emblem character added to Smash after Robin. Fire Emblem Three Houses is a highly regarded game, so in this scenario, he'd be as hated as .

I agree with this to an extent. Being only the 5th Fire Emblem character and our first one since 2014 would've definitely helped soften the blow, but that still wouldn't really change the culture surrounding Byleth at the time of his inclusion. Joker, Hero, Banjo, and Terry being back-to-back-to-back-to-back really had a lot of people expecting another major surprise that was thought to be impossible, only to get a character that many labeled as simultaneously predictable, boring, and corporate.

I think it's like if we got Cinderace as FP11 in a world where Incineroar or another Gen 7 Pokemon was never added to Smash. Sure, you no longer have to deal with complaints about Pokemon being overrepresented, there being too many fire-types, or there being too many fully-evolved starters, but the core complaint about Smash ending on a corporate Nintendo pick over another surprise, fan-favourite, or superstar.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Eh. Sort of. Most people weren't so salty about her as a character but the blatant lie that she somehow "won" the Smash Ballot. But there was definite outrage over that.

To be fair, we still don't have proof that she didn't win...

 

[MrJudd]

Reception to Bayonetta was always divisive: in the lead up, in her reveal, and in what followed. It only mellowed out during Ultimate. And yes, eventually it would become about her gameplay, but initially it was because of her perceived poor fit for Smash, then not only was she revealed as the “ballot winner”, but most characters who are contentious leading up to their reveal have divisive reactions even if people like them later (Cloud, Steve, etc).

Plus she and Corrin were last, and that’s innately going to put you in the line of fire. So some of the backlash was simply owing to her not being someone else as opposed to being her. Batting clean up to Corrin probably also didn’t help.

But if she was received as positively as claimed, people would be sour as they are recollecting they ballot, because beforehand everyone was quite hopeful. Some unwisely so, Corrin wouldn’t be remembered as negatively as they were, because you’d have had a positive reveal to cushion them more. Like, had you hypothetically revealed Byleth with Banjo, I think that pill would’ve gone down smoother.

I’m not saying there wasn’t also positivity that spawned from her reveal, because there was. Bayo did have some people hype and some people excited. I’m saying feelings were pretty all over the place, and ranged widely. The gameplay might be the negativity that people remember, but then again people also seem to forget that Ryu and Cloud were also pretty divisive at the outset.

I think divisive is also a good way to describe Bayo's reception, especially because of the ballot and what happened to characters like K. Rool and crew at the time: it's one of those cases where the timing of the character and a perceived reaction caused the issue more than the actual value of the character's inclusion.

 

[FreeFox]

Looking at the current poll. trailer has twice as much votes as . I am quite a bit surprised.

Edit:

To be fair, we still don't have proof that she didn't win...

But if I remember. There is at least proof that Bayonetta was being worked on before the ballot was even close to finish.

 

[N3ON]

I think divisive is also a good way to describe Bayo's reception, especially because of the ballot and what happened to characters like K. Rool and crew at the time: it's one of those cases where the timing of the character and a perceived reaction caused the issue more than the actual value of the character's inclusion.

Yeah. Bayonetta always would've been divisive upon reveal. Well, not at this point so much, but were it to be during the Smash 4 era, as it was, it always would've been divisive. However, had she not been last, had she not been touted as the ballot winner, had she not been paired with Corrin and had her gameplay panned out differently, people would've gotten over it much quicker than they did.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Weird how I haven’t read one essay of Willbuy after hearing that Nahobino’s design was finalized around 2016 and that SMTV was meant to be released in 2020. Sounds like the perfect puzzle piece to hammer the nail into the coffin

I have been busy at work.

 

[Noipoi]

Also I cannot fathom how Banjo can be your favourite trailer tbh. The CG is literally the exact same as K.Rool's, not even changing the beats beyond "Hey here's a random Jiggie in the house" when you could have recreated the intro from the original game but nah let's make it have the exact same joke. You can say it's actually super clever because lol Rare but idk, everyone else gets a unique trailer so saying your favourite is the one that's completely recycled in every way feels off as it comes across as "The trailers themselves do not matter". Then again multiple people said that they wouldn't enjoy Banjo anymore if they changed a single move's sound effect so I'm probably gonna get jumped on for saying you can do something better that can also sell people who don't know them lmao

It makes me happy

 

[Simnm]

I honestly dont think and want crash to be the final smash bros character.
He really isnt that unique and wont really bring that much into smash therefore i dont think hes suitable for the final reveal

 

[Garteam]

To be fair, we still don't have proof that she didn't win...

We don't have proof per se, but I'd still say there's a lot of evidence that suggests Bayonetta was getting in regardless of how she performed on the ballot. A duplication of ZSS' data (which Bayonetta was built off of) was added to Smash for Wii U's code two weeks after the ballot began. Given that there's presumably a lot of behind-the-scenes work that goes into licensing any character for Smash (these are multimillion-dollar deals involving multiple megacorps, after all), it's likely the first steps to getting Bayonetta were done before two weeks prior to this update, it's highly likely Bayonetta was chosen to be in Smash well-before the public even knew about the ballot.

 

[CannonStreak]

I honestly dont think and want crash to be the final smash bros character.
He really isnt that unique and wont really bring that much into smash therefore i dont think hes suitable for the final reveal

Sometimes, it is not the moveset that matters or how unique the character would be, but the character and how iconic that character is. Crash is certainly iconic, and he is wanted by many out there.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I dunno man, if Sephiroth's trailer was also a repeat of K.Rool but OWA started playing instead of the ground shaking or the Jiggy bouncing there, would it have been nearly as fun? That's my point cause I feel Banjo could have at least had something different, even if you wanted to reuse the setting

If it works it works. K. Rool's trailer was fantastic, he and Banjo had the Rare connection, and the people that needed to like the trailer liked it.

Sephiroth's trailer is basically the same as Mega Man's anyway, that doesn't diminish how cool it is in the slightest.

 

[N3ON]

It makes me happy

Yeah Banjo's trailer is also my favourite trailer because it's Banjo's trailer. It also happens to be a good trailer, unlike one which is kinda eh like Kazuya's.

I'm not gonna say it's the best trailer - I think we're almost all in agreement that goes to Sephiroth - but Banjo's is my favourite one.

Also Gwen is not the biggest fan of Banjo... so... y'know.

 

[Noipoi]

Yeah Banjo's trailer is also my favourite trailer because it's Banjo's trailer. It also happens to be a good trailer, unlike one which is kinda eh like Kazuya's.

I'm not gonna say it's the best trailer - I think we're almost all in agreement that goes to Sephiroth - but Banjo's is my favourite one.

Also Gwen is not the biggest fan of Banjo... so... y'know.

Well yeah, Sephiroth is definitely the best one objectively.

But whenever I watch the ending, with Banjo and Kazooie posing in front of everyone else cheering them on and that joyful remix of Spiral Mountain playing…it slaps a big, stupid smile on my face everytime.

 

[CannonStreak]

Sephiroth's trailer was great. I'd say if Geno was in instead of Sephiroth, his trailer would not be able to match the greatness of Sephiroth's trailer. Sorry, Geno fans.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Honestly, part of me wants the final character to be someone completely bonkers. Not a commonly speculated character or one people thought is impossible to get in or too niche/obscure/whatever and looked over many times by fans. The most fun additions in Smash are ones that people overlook for one reason or another.

Like, yeah. Crash/Master Chief/Sora/Hayabusa could be cool and all but due to how often people think they're "inevitable", something unexpected would be fun to see.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

It really is no question Sephiroths trailer is the best. Though Terry also had a really neat one imo, Geese cannot stop falling off of towers.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Also Gwen is not the biggest fan of Banjo... so... y'know.

If Banjo and Kazooie were human characters, I'd joke about how she's being such a tsundere towards them.

 

[Noipoi]

If Banjo and Kazooie were human characters, I'd joke about how she's being such a tsundere towards them.

I don’t think it’s tsundere if you just…flat out hate something.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I don’t think it’s tsundere if you just…flat out hate something.

Hence the joking part.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Looks like everyone finished talking about the Aegis at 2:00 in the morning. lol. Well now it's my turn!

You probably already know what I'm going to say for the first part: I think Pyra/Mythra is a genuinely terrible inclusion because it completely ignores the core of Xenoblade Chronicles 2. I would even go as far as to say that I would have preferred that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 not have gotten a character at all provided it was explained why so I'm not just sitting here thinking the game got robbed. Considering Min Min and the Aegis are the only two inclusions that I'm still mad at (EDIT: To some degree) I think we've found that my button is sole reps of their series (or game if the games in the series are very different) not being the best possible representative of said series (or game).

So what are the positives? Well Pyra/Mythra are genuinely fun. Like, a lot of fun. Mythra is the personification of speed with a game feel that's faster than Sonic's by a ton, and Pyra is one of the few dedicated "slow but powerful" characters that are actually any good. And while yeah, Mythra does seem to be perceived as better than Pyra, she's not so much better that any interesting use of the two together is gone because speed > power. I love that Zelda/Sheik's concept has finally come to a viable fruition. We also got Xenoblade Chronicles 2 music, so that's a plus.

And now for some negatives...Pyra has probably the least elegant censorship in the entire cast, with her nylons looking kinda dumb. It's luckily something you don't notice most of the time, but it is still a thing. Also, this game continues the trend of having terrible Xenoblade Chronicles remixes. Not all of them are bad (I've been warming up to the mashup), but one of them has a strange high pitched frequency on it that kind of sours it, and the other is straight up Counterattack, but worse in every way.

Going back to positives, Cloud Sea of Alrest is the best Xenoblade Chronicles 2 stage idea, even better than mine since it shows off each of the game's titans, and Gramps really makes the stage feel dynamic. The music, save for most of the remixes, is also very good. The lack of Drifting Soul (and the original Counterattack) is a bit of a bummer though.

Overall my thoughts are "bad idea (for now), but good execution", and if Rex & Pyra/Mythra were to be added at some point, all of my criticisms of Pyra/Mythra themselves would go away since I genuinely do like the characters.

 

[Momotsuki]

My favorite trailer is Steve's. I'd say that Sephiroth's is "objectively" the "best" but I just like Steve's a lot. I rewatch it now and then, it's charming!

 

[Garteam]

I don't think Banjo's trailer being based on K. Rool's trailer diminishes the trailer's effectiveness any more than Byleth's trailer being based on the cutscene in the middle of Chapter 10 or Sephiroth's trailer being based on WoL's opening cutscene and Advent Children's climax diminishes those trailers' effectiveness.

It's thematically appropriate for the characters and what their inclusion represents. Banjo-Kazooie and Donkey Kong have always been tied through Diddy Kong Racing and being Rare platformers released around the same time, so it's not like having the casts of those two games interacting is nonsensical.

Likewise, Banjo and Kazooie were so highly requested for Smash because their inclusion was thought to be a homecoming of what was essentially lost Nintendo characters, so structuring their reveal to build off a trailer for a retired Nintendo character's reveal is effective because it both brings them both back into Nintendo's ecosystem and retains the core theme of "Yes, we brought back this character who hasn't been relevant for a decade just because people wanted us to".

 

[GilTheGreat19]

As someone who hasn’t played XC2
I still understand the driver-blade concept. To an extent. I do wonder if Sakurai ever considered and tried making Rex the fighter while having Pythra power him up in the background (they’d also stand where Pokemon Trainer Stands). If he tried this and it didn’t work, I’d be very curious as to why.

 

[Dukefire]

This is how I see the leaks are right now. Endless bunny hopping onto each other for attention.

 

[Megadoomer]

Think there's a good way to ensure those MWs:

View attachment 332730

I really need to read more comics from that series. I feel like 99% of them would be dull, but they have some hilarious lines of dialogue. Case in point, here's me if Doomguy somehow gets announced on Tuesday:

As for my favourite trailer, it's Banjo-Kazooie, no questions asked. The bear and bird are up there with Bayonetta when it comes to characters who I really wanted to see in Smash but figured they had no chance - in both cases, watching those trailers is enough to put a grin on my face, even years later. (I think the only other one that comes close is Sonic being announced for Brawl, or for non-Smash trailers, the announcement of Psychonauts 2)

 

[Simnm]

Sometimes, it is not the moveset that matters or how unique the character would be, but the character and how iconic that character is. Crash is certainly iconic, and he is wanted by many out there.

But i feel like he would be an underwhelming inclusion for the final fighter despite the fan demand
I feel like the final fighter shoud bring something unique to smash and i feel like crash just dosent have that
He wouldve been fine if he wasnt the final fighter though

 

[Momotsuki]

Hopefully anyone with the ability to truly leak the final fighter knows that nobody will be impressed. They'll merely be bummed out about having been robbed of something special.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As someone who hasn’t played XC2
I still understand the driver-blade concept. To an extent. I do wonder if Sakurai ever considered and tried making Rex the fighter while having Pythra power him up in the background (they’d also stand where Pokemon Trainer Stands). If he tried this and it didn’t work, I’d be very curious as to why.

From what he's stated, it sounded like his two ideas were:

• Rex & Pyra as an Ice Climbers style duo, which...is a very strange direction. It was done away with because it was infeasible.
• Rex with Pyra sitting there doing nothing but supporting Rex kind of like the Pokémon Trainer. It was done away with because they couldn't figure out the logistics, and Sakurai himself wasn't sold on it anyway (I agree with him here).

The weird thing is that they seemed to never consider just literally translating Xenoblade Chronicles 2's mechanics. I doubt that would have been a feasible option either, but it would have at least made sense.

 

[GoodGrief741]

This is how I see the leaks are right now. Endless bunny hopping onto each other for attention.
View attachment 332764

Bunny hopping you say?