Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Will]

Someone who will remain unnamed has decided we're having too much fun and decided to make an account just to troll us. That someone has apparently been so painfully hurt in life that seeing the smiles on others' faces as they drift through life drives them mad with envy. While everyone else feels the complete satisfaction of joy in life they remain inexplicably detached from those feelings. And so they lash out, in a futile attempt to block the enormous dread they feel when they know that after a time, they will be back to being alone with their pain, forever cursed to witness others' happiness from afar but never once able to share in its warm embrace. Cold, distant, knowing only suffering they will continue to dry up inside until all that's left is a withered soul. And when their time finally comes for the torment to end not even the angels of heaven will hold their hand. They will turn to dust and no one will remember them.

Whoever's picking these moderators getting more based by the day, I like this guy.

 

[Momotsuki]

idk about you guys, but between the imaginations running wild tweet and Sakurai reaffirming the celebration of gaming thing, it sure does sound like the opportune time to reveal a character from an Indie Game. You wanna let your imaginations run wild? There's a whole lot of Indie Games to think of as a possibility from old to new and popular to niche, and it does fit with the celebration of gaming narrative to include a game that was made by a small team of developers than a big team owned by a publisher to establish the importance of Indie Games in the industry.

Perhaps... a long-running indie series with a strong cultural impact in the east and even the west..?

 

[RouffWestie]

Wowee, I just remembered where I initially heard Sakurai use that phrase!

Smash "is a celebration of gaming" pic.twitter.com/zJgz0hPWiI

— Wario64 (@Wario64) January 16, 2020

Wonder if it means anything for the final character, haha.

 

[Will]

Perhaps... a long-running indie series with a strong cultural impact in the east and even the west..?

Ah, right, Touhou. You know, it makes sense considerin-

JUST KIDDING IT'S ****ING CAVE STORY BAYBEEEEE LES GOOOOOOOOO​

 

[Momotsuki]

Ah, right, Touhou. You know, it makes sense considerin-

JUST KIDDING IT'S ****ING CAVE STORY BAYBEEEEE LES GOOOOOOOOO​

Y'know what? I'd be down for Cave Story. Let's go.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm not saying Sora is happening

But what if, hear me out, he brought The Moon theme from Ducktales NES with him.

I'm actually legit pissed now that there's no DuckTales world in KH. Thanks for that.

How I work is basically.
"It's not Sora" , I win by not expecting him
But if it's Sora, I win because IT IS my most wanted ever.

That sounds more like you're trying to use reverse psychology on reality.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I don’t think the specific phrases mean anything. If there’s even anything to be understood from these it’s just the effort going in to reinforce this as the final character. “Celebration of gaming” and “Imaginations running wild” in itself don’t point to a specific character in my opinion

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Wowee, I just remembered where I initially heard Sakurai use that phrase!

Smash "is a celebration of gaming" pic.twitter.com/zJgz0hPWiI

— Wario64 (@Wario64) January 16, 2020

Wonder if it means anything for the final character, haha.

Tabuu confirmed.

 

[GalacticPetey]

Awhile back someone made an edit of the scene from Return of the King where Aragorn makes a speech to the army before charging the Black Gates but it was Smash themed. Does anyone have it?

 

[Schnee117]

Man these past three days have been like the perfect Microcosm of Smash Speculation.

Fake leaks, trolls, overblown optimism, overblown pessimism, hell even horny jail failed a couple days ago. Are we missing anything?

Bigotry, Waluigi arguments, Isaac arguments, Nahobino arguments and "fun" forum games

 

[Will]

I'm not gonna look deep into what Sakurai said. We got two days, no one in this cycle thus far has been able to leak the character until <24 hours prior to the Direct, let alone sometimes <1 hour, look at Byleth.

So if the people trying hard to ruin the fun and the surprise can't do it, you think Sakurai is gonna throw a hint at you through some cryptic phrases?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Weird how I haven’t read one essay of Willbuy after hearing that Nahobino’s design was finalized around 2016 and that SMTV was meant to be released in 2020. Sounds like the perfect puzzle piece to hammer the nail into the coffin

 

[True Blue Warrior]

SF4 didn't get it either, ending with a literal Cammy clone.

Although...calling Luke an OC is weird...he's still a an SF character in an SF game.

What's really bad is that Capcom hyped up the 5th Ultra Street Fighter 4 character for 8 months knowing the character wouldn't live up to people's hype. Decapre was fun to play in that title and as a bonus character I thought she was fine. If they just revealed her a few weeks after the 4 other characters were confirmed, things would have been much better.

Bigotry, Waluigi arguments, Isaac arguments, Nahobino arguments and "fun" forum games

I missed when this happened within the last couple of days. Care to elaborate?

 

[Trevenant]

I am gonna keep my predictions of Ezio Auditore or Frisk

Rayman could happen, too. I just have a very good feeling about Ubisoft in general.

Also, I asked this yesterday but for now answer so I’ll try again: what GTA video did Nintendo take down? I saw someone mention something like this.

All those juicy Persona 5, Tekken and FF7 sales.

I assume you're joking so imma assume you're joking lmao.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Call me crazy, but my gut is screaming Half Life. Dunno why, but thats what I’m going with.

Maybe you should double check your food with a Geiger counter. Just saying.

Gordon Freeman would be a good Joker tier "WTF does this have to do with Nintendo" pick.

 

[Garteam]

I will admit that Sakurai's comments are very interesting, but I'm still skeptical towards the idea that the final character is someone massive. I've just seen the "This is the final reveal, so they need to make it count" logic fall flat on its face one too many times for me to really embrace it:

• "Brawl's already revealed Snake and Sonic! They definitely need to top that one more time before the game releases." Bam, .
• "There's no way Smash 4 is getting released without revealing one of Mewtwo, Ridley, or K. Rool. The last reveal is going to be massive!" Bam, .
• "This is the ballot pick! It has to be a massive crowd-pleaser." Bam, and .
• "Ultimate is the biggest Smash game ever! There's no way they'd end with a clone and Pokemon of all things." Bam, and.
• "The Fighter's Pass has been so hype thus far! Whoever FP5 is, they're going to be a big deal." Bam, .

Could Sakurai be emphasizing how he wants imaginations to go wild and people to remember Ultimate as a celebration of gaming because he's adding Crash riding on the back of Master Chief with Doom Marine on bass and Kratos flying the plane? Maybe.

Could Sakurai be emphasizing how he wants imaginations to go wild and people to remember Ultimate as a celebration of gaming because it's the final hurrah of a project he dubbed his "life's work" and he, therefore, wants to make this announcement noteworthy regardless of who the character actually is and what the Internet's immediate reactions will be? Also maybe.

Obviously, my analysis of this situation is not gospel. There's certainly a reasonable chance I'll be wrong, I definitely don't want to eradicate anyone's hopes/dreams, and I'd be happy to have Ultimate end by catching the headlines one last time. However, it is how I genuinely feel going into Tuesday, so take that however you will.

 

[Nekoo]

That sounds more like you're trying to use reverse psychology on reality.

Not really.
It's more like I'm not going in this direct expecting anything.
I got so many characters I wanted. I wouldnt be disappointed if I didn't get Sora, so I genuinely go in this direct not expecting ANYTHING.
I just DONT want to get a bad ending, I just want to end on a good note

 

[Dukefire]

You know, what if the Last smash character reveal starts all the way back towards the Smash 64 commercial? It is where it all started.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

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[CannonStreak]

You know, what if the Last smash character reveal starts all the way back towards the Smash 64 commercial? It is where it all started.

I have always loved that commercial. Still, why did Mario do it?

 

[Dukefire]

I have always loved that commercial. Still, why did Mario do it?

Master Hand or Sakurai himself. Let your imagination soar for this one.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I will admit that Sakurai's comments are very interesting, but I'm still skeptical towards the idea that the final character is someone massive. I've just seen the "This is the final reveal, so they need to make it count" logic fall flat on its face one too many times for me to really embrace it:

• "This is the ballot pick! It has to be a massive crowd-pleaser." Bam, and .

Bayonetta was hype tho.

 

[CannonStreak]

Master Hand or Sakurai himself. Let your imagination soar for this one.

I was actually talking about...well, this.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I know we talked about The smash community bubble, but for them, it's a complete echo-chamber. Either you're with them, or you're banned.

shrug That's the way they like it. It's intended to be a walled garden from the toxicity of the rest of the internet.

But then other people go there just to see how much they can get away with. And when they find out the answer is "absolutely nothing", their reaction is inevitably "That place is bull****!", even though it was never meant for them in the first place.

 

[LAA9000]

JustNo's, formerly LAA9000 with no Premium status to allow for a name change, Smash Ultimate Newcomer Retrospective
Part 2: Piranha Plant and Fighters Pass vol. 1

Spoiler: Piranha Plant

Not gonna lie, I still occasionally chuckle at the notion of a generic Mario enemy being playable in this giant crossover. However, a joke like this wears off over time, and I do forget that it's on the roster from time to time. Its movement feeling horrible and its moveset being quite vanilla don't help it stick out to the casual or competitive scenes. I'm not sure if it was ever planned for the base game then pulled back for more development time, but it certainly feels like that (it has a Palutena's Guidance, unlike the other DLC fighters). Thank goodness it was an early purchase bonus that I claimed in time, because I can't see many people dropping £4.49 on it alone.
…I forgot to mention that I didn't actually own a Switch until December 2018, when I bought one with copies of Zelda: BotW and Smash Ultimate.

Spoiler: Joker

I didn't know who Joker was when he was revealed for Smash, nor did I stay up to watch The Game Awards. I instead read summaries of TGA the following morning, recognised the name Persona 5 and knew that would definitely please other people, just not me. When he released, I happened to be on holiday, but that trailer and the content revealed in it was super promising for the rest of the DLC.
I still feel that promise every time I play as Joker or on Mementos. The presentation here is excellent, with the team going out of their way to, for example, change the colour scheme of Joker's win screen to reflect the colour scheme of Mementos, which in of itself reflects the current music track and its game of origin. The combination of Persona's distinct styles and the inspiration they gave Sakurai and co. helps a lot in making this Challenger Pack feel special.
However, I don't particularly like Arsène's implementation. Instead of giving Joker multiple Personas he can switch between to give him new moves, like in his home series, only Arsène appears, and only as a comeback mechanic. Other than that, this is easily my highlight of FPv1.
And a correction for whoever created this poll: Joker has two trailers - Take Your Heart, shown at The Game Awards 2018, and The Masked Rebel, released one random April 2019 morning. Don't neglect one of the best Smash reveal trailers.

Spoiler: Hero

I expected Erdrick from the many leaks, but also coming with Luminary, Solo and Eight as alternate costumes was an awesome captivation for me. Hero is definitely unique; I like the MP mechanic, and Command Selection can be extremely humourous, but for the sake of competitive balance I feel it shouldn't dictate whether they win or lose, and instead focus on providing unique tools that encourage players to improvise, like most RNG-based fighters in fighting games. The music selection is lacklustre - I can no longer joke about it being better than Final Fantasy's thanks to Sephiroth, but even when I could've, it was more worrying than funny. On the other hand, the Spirit Board is solid, and the stage looks good, even if it suffers the Dracula's Castle problem of being almost competitive but not fully.

Spoiler: Banjo & Kazooie

I never played Banjo-Kazooie, let alone grew up with it, but the same things that I previously said about King K. Rool, I can say about this duo, sans the superheavy balance discussion.
…That Sans pun wasn't intentional, but I'm gonna roll with it. They went above and beyond with this Mii Fighter costume, giving it a fully modelled head and bundling it with an unnecessary remix of Megalovania. It made people value them as cool consolation prizes for characters that weren't able to be made playable, and not disrespectful spits in the faces of characters' fans. They should've always been viewed like this, but it's better late than never.
…Great, now my opinions on the Mii Fighter costume are longer than those on the fighter itself. Repeat the last part of what I said about Ridley.

Spoiler: Terry

The SNK leak, unfortunate as it may have been, was a blessing: it got me and many others to know of this company's massive backlog of characters, resulting in their Hungry Wolf being better received than had it not happened. Even without this, though, we'd still be admiring how much love this Challenger Pack has put into it.
Repeat my Simon / Richter segment. A fighter with a moveset that both accurately reflects their series and fits like a charm in Smash? A stage that captures the essence of their series, features numerous cameos and is extremely fun? 50 music tracks, including banger remixes? SNK and Sakurai worked together to provide all of this, and it is beautiful. This is easily a close runner-up to Joker for my favourite Challenger Pack of FPv1.

Spoiler: Byleth

By stating my opinions on Byleth in Smash, I'm willingly throwing myself into the burning pits of discourse regardless of what they are. Since I have no other choice than to say them, fine: you can't convince me they weren't solely a promotional pick. A character or game's popularity can't be factored into their inclusion in a crossover if the game didn't release when they were chosen, and that makes including them quite a large risk, since the directors won't know if their inclusion will backfire or not. It's very hard to say whether Byleth backfired, but I do think they were possibly the worst way to end FPv1, and would've benefitted from a delay into FPv2. I have no feelings towards them as a character due to not playing Fire Emblem: Three Houses.
Now that I've had almost two years to accept their inclusion in the game, I'll steal someone else's analogy and say they're like socks for Christmas. You know you're getting them, and you often end up liking them or finding them useful, but not many people go out of their way to ask for them, and they usually register as unremarkable.

Tomorrow will bring the last part of this look back... and the final 24 hours of this 3-and-a-half-year journey. I'm feeling many emotions that I can't yet fully identify.

 

[Dukefire]

Really, salt is the by product while watching the official smash trailers. Better get popcorn and some unsalted foods ready soon.

 

[CannonStreak]

Really, salt is the by product while watching the official smash trailers. Better get popcorn and some unsalted foods ready soon.

Obligatory here.

Sorry, but I had to.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Bayonetta was hype tho.

But at the same time controversial given the debate how the ballot may have been rigged.

 

[CannonStreak]

But at the same time controversial given the debate how the ballot may have been rigged.

Maybe not that rigged. I believe they said the ballot would help with deciding what characters would be in future Smash games, and we got King K. Rool, perhaps Ridley and the Belmonts too in Ultimate, which was after Smash 4, obviously.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The revisionism can get pretty insane.

Bayonetta was hype and had people excited, it was only after she murdered Smash 4 competitively that people really soured on her in my recollection.
Olimar was exciting at the time but again, became sour when people realised that the 50+ character roster the mid 00's internet promised itself was coming wasn't going to happen.

 

[FriskyFritter]

The revisionism can get pretty insane.

Bayonetta was hype and had people excited, it was only after she murdered Smash 4 competitively that people really soured on her in my recollection.
Olimar was exciting at the time but again, became sour when people realised that the 50+ character roster the mid 00's internet promised itself was coming wasn't going to happen.

Eh. Sort of. Most people weren't so salty about her as a character but the blatant lie that she somehow "won" the Smash Ballot. But there was definite outrage over that.

 

[Dukefire]

A lot of people doesn't talk about Bayonetta's Smash 4 presence since she was nerfed heavily in Ultimate to prevent insane 0 to death combos.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

Sakurai can always change his mind. In the first smash game they considered James Bond. Sephiroth and Cloud both got movie references.
So maybe Shrek cant do it because he has nothing to do with videogames.
However Gundam, Goku, the Witcher, Spiderman, Darth Vader, and Alien all have made big contributions to gaming. Sakurai made a public statement saying "no iron man and goku". Yet this does run at odds with his intentions of appeasing fans as well as his intent to celebrate gaming. This is shown with Kingdom Hearts. A highly requested franchise and excellent games, that even had an influence on ff7 remake, yet heavily associated with nonvideogame ip. This is why people try to exclude Sora and why people who want him try to handwave goofy and donald and even the keychain on his keyblade (which is ridiculous since the disney logo would appear in the copyrights.)

Yet it would appear that most people agree there has been an attempt to try to get Sora in smash despite Sakurai's public statement. In the end it is up to Nintendo to ask and Sakurai to decide, and he sets the criteria, even stretching it time and again such as for cloud who he might have had reservations if he never appeared on nintendo consoles (kh helps him get in smash). SO what im saying is that the old DOGMA WAS NO NON NINTENDO . BEFORE SAKURAI RULES ARE MEANINGLESS ITS TIME FOR A NEW ERA ZEHAHAHAAHAAA !

 

[MrJudd]

The revisionism can get pretty insane.

Bayonetta was hype and had people excited, it was only after she murdered Smash 4 competitively that people really soured on her in my recollection.
Olimar was exciting at the time but again, became sour when people realised that the 50+ character roster the mid 00's internet promised itself was coming wasn't going to happen.

Yeah, the revisionism with Bayo is one of the most hilarious parts of Smash 4 speculation: she was a pick that was deemed impossible by fans that ended up happening. She wasn't necessarily the biggest pick available at the time, but she also made a lot of people happy that she got in. Yet everyone loves to harp to this day about how final reveals are disappointing because of Corrin and ignore her completely. Figures...

 

[Garteam]

Bayonetta was hype tho.

People didn't hate Bayonetta, but I still wouldn't say her inclusion went over incredibly well with the community. There was a pretty vocal faction that was disappointed she wasn't Wolf, K. Rool, Snake, or some other character that had a ton of backing at the time.

Granted, how much of that criticism can be owed to the fact she was unveiled alongside the genuinely unpopular Corrin is subject to debate.

At the very least, she didn't reach this standard of "everyone in a 50-mile radius screamed at their computer for 5 hours because Sakurai made one of the community's dreams come true in a way thought to be impossible" that many tend to have for "hype" Smash reveals.

 

[LAA9000]

I don’t think the specific phrases mean anything. If there’s even anything to be understood from these it’s just the effort going in to reinforce this as the final character. “Celebration of gaming” and “Imaginations running wild” in itself don’t point to a specific character in my opinion

Our vigorous analysis of these words reminds me of a few days ago, when we made fun of GameFAQs users who believed that Yoshiaki Koizumi's smile when announcing The Final Battle meant it had to be someone big like Master Chief. Have we gone as far as them? Would we be making fun of what we're doing if instead GameFAQs was doing it?

 

[Hex D. Jess]

Our vigorous analysis of these words reminds me of a few days ago, when we made fun of GameFAQs users who believed that Yoshiaki Koizumi's smile when announcing The Final Battle meant it had to be someone big like Master Chief. Have we gone as far as them? Would we be making fun of what we're doing if instead GameFAQs was doing it?

The Smash fandom as a whole has had a history of reading too much into statements and small details that don't matter in the grand scheme of things. This forum is no exception.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

At the very least, she didn't reach this standard of "everyone in a 50-mile radius screamed at their computer for 5 hours because Sakurai made one of the community's dreams come true in a way thought to be impossible" that many tend to have for "hype" Smash reveals.

50-mile radius? You mean 500-mile radius.

 

[CannonStreak]

50-mile radius? You mean 500-mile radius.

How about a 1000 mile radius?

 

[Ivander]

You know, what if the Last smash character reveal starts all the way back towards the Smash 64 commercial? It is where it all started.

The four are just doing their own happy-go-lucky thing. Then the Crash Bandicoot Suit guy comes and starts taunting Mario, that leads into a transition from the costumes to the game(like Duck Hunt's trailer) and revealing Crash Bandicoot as the final fighter.