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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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SMAASH! Puppy

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I have a new theory for the final character.

You know how, when it comes to first party characters as the final character, we’re unsure whether they might represent older games on the Switch like Xenoblade 2 or ARMS, or whether they’ll repressnt a game that is coming out later.

Well, why choose? With Sandwich Theory, you can have both! For this theory, we’re looking for games that had both a release around when they started deciding Fighter’s Pass 2, as well as a game in development that Sakurai could’ve asked Nintendo about. This way, even if the new release would go haywire or would be on the unsafe side, the character could still stand on its own thanks to its legacy or the game that released around 2017!

Examples include a Splatoon character for both Splatoon 2 and Splatoon 3, Paper Mario for both Color Splash and Origami King, Rabbids for both Kingdom Battle and Sparks of Hope, a Zelda fighter for Breath of the Wild, Age of Calamity and Breath of the Wild sequel and possibly a Kirby and DK fighter for Star Allies and DK Tropical Freeze and their rumoured new games!

A new game on the horizon that can get its first waves with a Smash fighter’s hype, with the content and exact proof-of-concept of an older game, and a Smash fighter sandwiched in the middle. Sandwich Theory!
Well, of these:
  • Splatoon 2 and Splatoon 3 I don't see happening because Splatoon 2 already has content, and Splatoon 3 is a ways off.
  • Paper Mario Color Splash isn't on the Switch and Paper Mario: The Origami King already has a Spirit Event so that's out.
  • Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle and Mario + Rabbids: Sparks of Hope could work, but it's a lower key series so I don't know if they'd want to specifically promote it.
  • The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and its sequel seem unlikely since the pass comes with content from one already, and the other is still far off.
    • It's also possible that the only link (heh) between the two titles is already in the game: Link. That is, unless they want to add another Zelda.
  • Kirby Star Allies is unlikely to get promoted with a character due to it being lower key, and I feel that if they were going to promote the next game with a character, we'd have seen it already.
  • See above for Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze and the potential new Donkey Kong game.
If these are the only ones that fit, then the most likely fighter is Rabbid Peach, and I don't find her to be particularly likely.
 

3BitSaurus

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SMT could Pretty well get content but dude, you act like you’re a god and we should worship you.
Ironic considering the series we're talking about. :4pacman:

Sure, let's go with that. Or Sm4sh Bayonetta tier. Basically imagine reading the patch notes and you're like "Oh my god is this section on Kirby/Incineroar/Villager 100% serious about these crazy changes?"
That, but I'd love a mode where everything is busted. Like "all attacks are instant".

And I say this as a MOBA fan who loves that ****.

For the classic era 1, 2, and 4 tell the core story and 3 is cool but not too important.

1 has a great version on SEGA AGES. Light on story and character development, but it's a fun romp that doesn't take too long and Alis, the main heroine, is referenced, cameos, and otherwise appears/alluded to in either major or subtle ways in almost every single game going forward.

2 is technically the most "iconic" by far, as it's where most of Phantasy Star got its longterm trappings for things like how the setting feels, characters are designed, the music, iconic moments, and things like that but it's also unfortunately the hardest to actually play because it's mostly dungeons. Details about each individual character's backstories and personalities are greatly expanded by the text adventures, which got an English fan translation not long ago.

3 is cool, especially its generation system that probably helped inspire Fire Emblem's, but it's also painfully unfinished and you can tell. Go for it if you want more after playing the others, but it's very rough around the edges.

4 is the easiest to play, has the best characters, story, and is just a great classic RPG. If you love 16 bit RPGs and haven't played PSIV, you should. Like, you definitely should. It's top 10, if not top 5. With the ending of PSIV, Classic Era's story was considered "finished."

All are available on Switch in some way. AGES for 1 and I think some kinda MegaDrive/Genesis collection for the rest. PSIV is also on the Mega Drive/Genesis Mini if you have it already. The MD/GEN collection on Steam also has "mods," which includes mods for PSII that let you play through fan-translations of the text adventures, which are pretty important to learning much of anything about anyone besides Rolf and Nei.

---------------------

The original Online was massively beloved and can still be played on private servers, but depending on how they're set up they may not be the best for Story content. It's the only way to play the fourth episode though, so that's a shame. If you can't find a good one (or just don't want to), go for the Gamecube version of PSO Episodes 1+2 and then 3 if you're feeling really invested as it wraps eeeeverything up (and actually takes place after Blue Burst's Ep. 4) but is also a completely different genre because they made it a card game for some reason????

Zero on DS is a prequel to Online, but it's a little obtuse in how it fits if you don't already know that.

Universe-era on PS2 and PSP is skippable because most of it's in Japanese only afaik. Worth a go if you're curious, but it might be a pain and is its own contained... universe, story-wise.

PSO2, in spite of being "Online 2," is also its own contained universe that takes lots of bits from different incarnations of PS and runs with them. Though it does also call back to the original Online in a LOT of ways you may only pick up if you played it. You can basically just download it and play now since it's F2P and has 8 years worth of content.

PSO2 New Genesis is a direct continuation of classic PSO2 and runs from the same client/lets you use the same character, but it's... very early and has basically nothing to do. Will probably get really going in a year or two, like PSO2 did.

(edited in a few small additional details)
...Can I just say that as someone who got introduced to the series just a few days ago, I love that this is your first post?
 
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Ivander

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I've been thinking of looking into Phantasy Star a little lately myself, so going off of this, what's all the important games in the series and which ones are available on modern consoles? I at least know someone mentioned the first four are available and there's also PSO2, but I'm not sure what goes between them. Anyone able to give a rundown?
Okay, so it's like this:
  1. Phantasy Star 1-4 are on Switch.
  2. Between the Phantasy Star games on Master System/Genesis and Phantasy Star Online, there was a collection of games called Phantasy Star Gaiden for the Game Gear and is a direct sequel to the first Phantasy Star, Phantasy Star Adventure for the Game Gear, but is a puzzle game, and Phantasy Star 2 Text Adventures for the Sega Meganet and later Sega CD as part of a compilation.
  3. Phantasy Star Online was on both Dreamcast, Gamecube, Xbox and was once on PC, and while there is still a community for PSO as well as a fan-made server for it, I'm not sure where you can find PSO on PC without finding a very expensive copy or pirating it. There are 4 Episodes, titled Phantasy Star Online Episode 1-4.
    However, Phantasy Star Episode 3 was not only a Gamecube exclusive, but also very different gameplay wise. Whereas the other Episodes are MMO-styled dungeon crawlers, Episode 3 was a Card game. So your best bet without having to shill alot of money for a Gamecube copy is by watching a playthrough on Youtube.
    Episode 4 would be first titled PSO Blue Burst, before it later had an expansion called Episode 4 that added new content.
  4. Okay, after Phantasy Star Online, we have Phantasy Star Universe for the Xbox 360 and PC. There is a Single Player mode where you play as the character Ethan without online, but the MMO Servers are down, so you can't play the Ambition of the Illuminus sequel that uses the Avatar character.
  5. Then we have Phantasy Star Portable, a sequel to Phantasy Star Universe on the Playstation Portable that takes place between Universe and Ambition, followed by it's sequel, Phantasy Star Portable 2 for PSP, which takes place after Ambition. Both do not require online for the main Story mode, but it required online for some of it's missions and it's no longer there.
    There is also Phantasy Star Portable 2 Infinity, a direct sequel to Phantasy Star Portable 2. But it was only released in Japan compared to the other Portable games. Anyway, all 3 games use an Avatar character as the main character.
  6. Around Phantasy Star Portable's release, we did also get a Phantasy Star for Nintendo DS, called Phantasy Star Zero/0. It's a stand-alone game, but follows the same gameplay as Phantasy Star Online with some elements borrowed from Universe. It doesn't require online to play it's story, like Universe and the Portable games.
  7. After all these games, Phantasy Star Online 2 would be the next game. For Japan, it was released after Phantasy Star Portable 2 Infinity. For the West, it would not come out for a long time until 2020. Phantasy Star Online 2 has 6 Episodes altogether for it's story. And recently we got New Genesis, which is part of PSO2, but is also a sequel to Phantasy Star Online 2, taking place 1000 years after the events of PSO2. Anyway, it does require Online.
  8. During PSO2, the Playstation Vita would get it's own Phantasy Star game, alongside a version of PSO2. The Vita's exclusive PS game is called Phantasy Star Nova. Phantasy Star Nova takes place around the time of PSO2, where you play as a cast of ARKS characters trying to survive on a new planet not in PSO2. It was released exclusively in Japan.
  9. Then we have the two Mobile Phantasy Star games. One is Phantasy Star Online 2 es, which takes place during PSO2 and you "connect it" to your Phantasy Star Online 2 account as a "companion" game, so you use your same character from PSO2 for it. Then there is Idola: Phantasy Star Saga, which I think is a Gacha game. It takes place in an alternate dimension, not entirely related to PSO2, but the Phantasy Star Online 2 characters, at some point, do find their way there.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Well, of these:
  • Splatoon 2 and Splatoon 3 I don't see happening because Splatoon 2 already has content, and Splatoon 3 is a ways off.
  • Paper Mario Color Splash isn't on the Switch and Paper Mario: The Origami King already has a Spirit Event so that's out.
  • Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle and Mario + Rabbids: Sparks of Hope could work, but it's a lower key series so I don't know if they'd want to specifically promote it.
  • The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild and its sequel seem unlikely since the pass comes with content from one already, and the other is still far off.
    • It's also possible that the only link (heh) between the two titles is already in the game: Link. That is, unless they want to add another Zelda.
  • Kirby Star Allies is unlikely to get promoted with a character due to it being lower key, and I feel that if they were going to promote the next game with a character, we'd have seen it already.
  • See above for Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze and the potential new Donkey Kong game.
If these are the only ones that fit, then the most likely fighter is Rabbid Peach, and I don't find her to be particularly likely.
I mean Xenoblade 2 already had content prior to Pyra/Mythra, I don’t think that’s a point against a Splatoon 2 character with Octo Expansion content for example
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I just realized something: If against all odds, Kirby Star Allies did get a character, it would probably be Hyness. Here's my logic:
  1. While Bandana Waddle Dee is more of a major character to the Kirby series, he doesn't have a particularly major role in Kirby Star Allies.
    • It is bigger than his role in the previous main series game, and he is the first recruitable Dream Friend, but he's not a major player in the plot.
  2. The Three Mage Sisters are the ones that are playable, but there are three of them, they each have their own abilities, and they aren't a part of the same being like Pyra/Mythra are, so they probably couldn't get away with the same design choices.
  3. Hyness is central to the plot, can include the Three Mage Sisters in his moveset, and is only one character. Also he can use a corrupted version of the Friend Heart mechanics.
Since each 1st party Fighter Pack is focused on a specific game, it's likely that Sakurai would be told to choose a character from Kirby Star Allies specifically, which would likely make Hyness the only candidate that's both appropriate, and realizable. Unless you added the final boss or Morpho Knight but...I don't think those are good choices.

EDIT: I suppose there's nothing stopping them from adding Bandana Waddle Dee and explaining that he's the first recruitable Dream Friend to link him to the game so there is that too.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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If we couldn't get Bandana Dee, as far as Kirby characters, I think I'd honestly prefer some odd combination of Rick, Kine, & Coo. Not only are they essentially first Kirby sidekicks before Gooey or BWD, but the image of Sephiroth or Kazuya being beaten up by a hamster would a hilarious capstone to the second pass.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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I mean Xenoblade 2 already had content prior to Pyra/Mythra, I don’t think that’s a point against a Splatoon 2 character with Octo Expansion content for example
The reason why I said it was because Splatoon 2's content is more fully integrated into the series representation rather than the footnotes that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and ARMS got. It has music, a stage, a Mii Costume, several Spirits, and technically a character.

Since it's representation is already there as normal, I'd say if a new Splatoon character were to be added for promoting a specific game, it would be for Splatoon 3 rather than Splatoon 2.

To be fair, it wouldn't be the first time they've doubled down on a game they've already added (:ultsephiroth:), but I still find it unlikely.

If we couldn't get Bandana Dee, as far as Kirby characters, I think I'd honestly prefer some odd combination of Rick, Kine, & Coo. Not only are they essentially first Kirby sidekicks before Gooey or BWD, but the image of Sephiroth or Kazuya being beaten up by a hamster would a hilarious capstone to the second pass.
If it's worth anything, Hyness is pretty weird too:
1630977840110.png
 

Rie Sonomura

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The reason why I said it was because Splatoon 2's content is more fully integrated into the series representation rather than the footnotes that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and ARMS got. It has music, a stage, a Mii Costume, several Spirits, and technically a character.

Since it's representation is already there as normal, I'd say if a new Splatoon character were to be added for promoting a specific game, it would be for Splatoon 3 rather than Splatoon 2.

To be fair, it wouldn't be the first time they've doubled down on a game they've already added (:ultsephiroth:), but I still find it unlikely.


If it's worth anything, Hyness is pretty weird too:
View attachment 329504
Splatoon 2 could have had more representation, there’s no spirits of Evil Callie, the Salmonids, or any of the supporting Octo Expansion cast, and NO Octo Expansion music

most of its content is from 1, if anything. Squid Sisters AT and Miis, most of the music is from 1 (with a few Off the Hook and normal Turf War songs from 2), Inkling is more based off the first game, etc. thats how I see it at least :drshrug:
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Splatoon 2 could have had more representation, there’s no spirits of Evil Callie, the Salmonids, or any of the supporting Octo Expansion cast, and NO Octo Expansion music

most of its content is from 1, if anything. Squid Sisters AT and Miis, most of the music is from 1 (with a few Off the Hook and normal Turf War songs from 2), Inkling is more based off the first game, etc. thats how I see it at least :drshrug:
Adding on to this, Inkling's Final Smash is Killer Wail, which doesn't exist in Splatoon 2 at all outside of technically the Princess Cannon.

I don't think Splatoon stuff is happening for CP11, but Inkling is definitely more based on the original lol
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Adding on to this, Inkling's Final Smash is Killer Wail, which doesn't exist in Splatoon 2 at all.

I don't think Splatoon stuff is happening for CP11, but Inkling is definitely more based on the original lol
Killer Wail DOES technically exist in Splatoon 2… in an Octo Expansion cutscene and as the 2 minute gimmick for the Final Shifty Station welp you already edited it so :drsad:

Octoling could use a Splatoon 2 special for their Final Smash, like the Baller, Stingray, Inkjet, or even Booyah Bomb
 
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Among Waddle Dees

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I just realized something: If against all odds, Kirby Star Allies did get a character, it would probably be Hyness. Here's my logic:
  1. While Bandana Waddle Dee is more of a major character to the Kirby series, he doesn't have a particularly major role in Kirby Star Allies.
    • It is bigger than his role in the previous main series game, and he is the first recruitable Dream Friend, but he's not a major player in the plot.
  2. The Three Mage Sisters are the ones that are playable, but there are three of them, they each have their own abilities, and they aren't a part of the same being like Pyra/Mythra are, so they probably couldn't get away with the same design choices.
  3. Hyness is central to the plot, can include the Three Mage Sisters in his moveset, and is only one character. Also he can use a corrupted version of the Friend Heart mechanics.
Since each 1st party Fighter Pack is focused on a specific game, it's likely that Sakurai would be told to choose a character from Kirby Star Allies specifically, which would likely make Hyness the only candidate that's both appropriate, and realizable. Unless you added the final boss or Morpho Knight but...I don't think those are good choices.

EDIT: I suppose there's nothing stopping them from adding Bandana Waddle Dee and explaining that he's the first recruitable Dream Friend to link him to the game so there is that too.
Why not go for the one Star Allies inclusion to trend on Twitter?



Though Hyness in Smash would also be dapper, NGL.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Splatoon 2 could have had more representation, there’s no spirits of Evil Callie, the Salmonids, or any of the supporting Octo Expansion cast, and NO Octo Expansion music

most of its content is from 1, if anything. Squid Sisters AT and Miis, most of the music is from 1 (with a few Off the Hook and normal Turf War songs from 2), Inkling is more based off the first game, etc. thats how I see it at least :drshrug:
I'd have to disagree:
  • The playable character is central to both games, though it only pulls from the first one due to the timeframe it was made in.
  • The stage is from both games.
  • There are 15 tracks from the first game, and 11 from the second, which isn't all that imbalanced.
  • It does only have 8 Spirits out of 23, but a lot of the Splatoon Spirits are also in Splatoon 2, and 12 of them use Splatoon 2 artwork.
  • It also has one less Mii Costume, but the one extra Splatoon one is just a hat.
While Splatoon 2 could have more stuff, I'd say the two games are fairly equal in terms of representation.
 
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SpectreJordan

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Ooooo that's actually a solid point! Especially with SF6 coming in the next couple of years too, which I'm guessing they'll sorta handle like SF5 but, like, semi-competently... Cloud is an interesting one, though I suppose the addition of Hero and Sephiroth suggests Square are at least willing to play ball these days...
I think Final Fantasy is so huge & beloved that they’d try to make it a priority. Plus, Cloud is arguably the second biggest Smash reveal of all-time (maybe the biggest?) & I remember seeing some stats that had him as the most played character online (that’s probably outdated though since it was a while ago).

I wanted to include Steve too for similar reasons but 6 is probably pushing it for the question lol
 

DarthEnderX

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Okay, here's a question for you all: if Bandai Namco could get a 3rd rep, who'd you like to see?
Nightmare.

How would Smashboards feel about if, for Smash's final balance patch, they gave buffs to the entire roster similar to how FighterZ's entire roster got buffed for its final balance patch?
Depends if the end result is more, or less, balanced overall.

I want the game to end as balanced as possible. Giving everyone buffs is pointless if it breaks several characters.
 
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TheFirstPoppyBro

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I just realized something: If against all odds, Kirby Star Allies did get a character, it would probably be Hyness. Here's my logic:
  1. While Bandana Waddle Dee is more of a major character to the Kirby series, he doesn't have a particularly major role in Kirby Star Allies.
    • It is bigger than his role in the previous main series game, and he is the first recruitable Dream Friend, but he's not a major player in the plot.
  2. The Three Mage Sisters are the ones that are playable, but there are three of them, they each have their own abilities, and they aren't a part of the same being like Pyra/Mythra are, so they probably couldn't get away with the same design choices.
  3. Hyness is central to the plot, can include the Three Mage Sisters in his moveset, and is only one character. Also he can use a corrupted version of the Friend Heart mechanics.
Since each 1st party Fighter Pack is focused on a specific game, it's likely that Sakurai would be told to choose a character from Kirby Star Allies specifically, which would likely make Hyness the only candidate that's both appropriate, and realizable. Unless you added the final boss or Morpho Knight but...I don't think those are good choices.

EDIT: I suppose there's nothing stopping them from adding Bandana Waddle Dee and explaining that he's the first recruitable Dream Friend to link him to the game so there is that too.
If it's not Bandana Dee, and my opinions are very biased, I'd love to see Susie tbh. Mostly because Robobot is my favorite Kirby game and it makes it more likely that I'd finally get Star Dream's first phase theme (I'm still mad it just wasn't in the game already when Sectonia got TWO themes even though I love Moonstruck Blossom and World to Win).
 

Guynamednelson

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PeridotGX

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nintendo announces their direct will release at the exact same time as the sony thing, it turns out they're redoing the nintendo playstation. kratos will be the last dlc fighter,.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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If it's not Bandana Dee, and my opinions are very biased, I'd love to see Susie tbh. Mostly because Robobot is my favorite Kirby game and it makes it more likely that I'd finally get Star Dream's first phase theme (I'm still mad it just wasn't in the game already when Sectonia got TWO themes even though I love Moonstruck Blossom and World to Win).
If I were to add any character from the Kirby series that wasn't Bandana Waddle Dee then I'd probably pick Magolor since he seems to be turning into a part of the extended cast, but after that I guess I'd go with Daroach or Rick & Kine & Coo for a biased pick.

If we have to keep Meta Knight as a high skill ceiling character, then Dark Meta Knight as a variant with slower frame data, but more power, making him easier to play would be pretty nice as well. Galacta Knight and Morpho Knight would also work for this purpose, but I like Dark Meta Knight's Mirror Aesthetic more. Also, if they went down this route, I hope he'd get a few different moves from his time as a Dream Friend:
 

pupNapoleon

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EDIT I commented on a post I had already commented upon.
 
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Splatoon 2 could have had more representation, there’s no spirits of Evil Callie, the Salmonids, or any of the supporting Octo Expansion cast, and NO Octo Expansion music

most of its content is from 1, if anything. Squid Sisters AT and Miis, most of the music is from 1 (with a few Off the Hook and normal Turf War songs from 2), Inkling is more based off the first game, etc. thats how I see it at least :drshrug:
It’s almost like Splatoon 2 wasn’t out yet when Ultimate’s project plan was finalized…
 

Shroob

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Well that is somber news I don't think another smash game will be coming out anytime soon it is called Ultimate or another one ever
They've been saying it for awhile now.

Back with Pythra, they announced there was only 2 characters left, and with Kazuya, they made it explicitly clear that development was nearing its end and there was only 1 left.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Well that is somber news I don't think another smash game will be coming out anytime soon it is called Ultimate or another one ever
Well it's highly unlikely that the series is ending, but the next game will most definitely be on the next console, which isn't going to come for a while.

Also, while Nintendo isn't going to care about a petition, if you were going to drive support for a character to hopefully get it noticed by them while they're picking the next roster, the next few years is probably your time to do it.

It’s almost like Splatoon 2 wasn’t out yet when Ultimate’s project plan was finalized…
That's not really relevant to her argument. Read a few posts back in the chain.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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I don’t really care about Sora in smash either way myself but this is a really nice concept:
@Perkilator
This, this is art
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Oh it’s gonna be the little box people who are the “player” asset from Game Builder Garage isn’t it?
I doubt it, but I would be interested to know how that would play.

A Nintendo Labo character would be interesting as well, though since they've discontinued it, it's definitely not happening (also I think it got DLC Spirits).
 

GilTheGreat19

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Who'd a thunk, the TF2 subreddit would be validated for raiding every Smash poll online.
Someones gonna post a pic or article about Heavy getting it and it'll be the post with the highest amount of upvotes in the TF2 subreddit


nintendo announces their direct will release at the exact same time as the sony thing, it turns out they're redoing the nintendo playstation. kratos will be the last dlc fighter,.
Dude I thought I was the only person thinking about something like this
Just instead of the Nintendo Playstation it was that the OG GoW trilogy would be remastered for the Switch and PS consoles, while Mario 3D All Stars would come to the PS consoles because why the **** not

the odds of this happening are small, and I am aware, dw folks LMAO
 
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