Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Dan Quixote]

I’d say Paper Mario counts as a franchise on its own, and I think some existing series do genuinely appreciate new blood but yeah it needs to be a balance.

Y'know say what you will about Sticker Star, but we all know the giant fan from that game would make for just the best Final Smash ever.

 

[Knight Dude]

Yeah, most first party characters I like are already in. I don't think I'd be that mad if the last character was first party, but I guess it'd depend on who it was. I'm sure Dixie or Waluigi would make a bunch of people happy. Same with a Zelda character.

But there's a hell of a lot more 3rd party characters I can think of as cool additions.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I’d say Paper Mario counts as a franchise on its own...

Since it's a spin-off of the Super Mario series that largely sticks to all of the main series's stuff for content, I'm going to have to disagree there.

 

[DarthEnderX]

First party reps, huh? It's never happening, but I always thought it'd be pretty fun to have a character from this NES game:

Incineroar is a heel wrestler that is mostly based on the Japanese Puroresu style. I think a wrestler from this game like Star Man could work as a face wrestler with more acrobatic wrestling moves to serve as Incineroar's foil.

No! It has to be The Amazon! Because reasons!

Ok imagine a fighter with this kind of weapon LMAO

Isn't that pretty much what Reyn uses in Xenoblade?

I’d say Paper Mario counts as a franchise on its own, and I think some existing series do genuinely appreciate new blood but yeah it needs to be a balance.

It's not. It's it's own subseries, but it's still part of the Mario franchise.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Since it's a spin-off of the Super Mario series that largely sticks to all of the main series's stuff for content, I'm going to have to disagree there.

It's also a very separated sub-series in terms of unique gameplay. But it's more just an alternate universe, but easily could be its own universe symbol anyway. It certainly stands out more than enough to justify that.

Smash could take other direction. Though unlike WarioWare, it's blatantly still Super Mario. Though it does deserve credit for having tons of unique stuff that was not transferred over to regular Super Mario, but Yoshi is only slightly worse in that regard.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

The final character direct happens. You see like an ordinary fight, and then the sky goes dark and a giant rift opens.

It begins to rain acid rain, trucks falling out of the rift. Mario picks up a small puppet of Harry Potter. Sonic gets hit on the head with a star-shaped guitar.

Then, from above, the fighter leaps down, summoning a being behind them with a JoJo pose. It has a lemon for a head, and a colossal smile as the man before it, petting a cat, has one of his eyes glint as he smirks.

[LEMON DEMON SOURS THE COMPETITION!!]

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Isn't that pretty much what Reyn uses in Xenoblade?

I'd say Reyn's Driver is the inverse of it; Rather than a sword modified to also act as a shield, it's a shield with a pointy bit on the end.

It's also a very separated sub-series in terms of unique gameplay. But it's more just an alternate universe, but easily could be its own universe symbol anyway. It certainly stands out more than enough to justify that.

Smash could take other direction. Though unlike WarioWare, it's blatantly still Super Mario. Though it does deserve credit for having tons of unique stuff that was not transferred over to regular Super Mario, but Yoshi is only slightly worse in that regard.

I'm having trouble following the train of thought here so I might have misinterpreted something.

Paper Mario may have a completely different gameplay style by nature (unless you're Super Paper Mario), but it still involves the same characters (the protagonist doesn't even shift to someone else) and enemies, with additions either being stuff you could see being in the mainline stuff or just slapped on there because reasons (unless you're Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, or Super Paper Mario). Beyond that, it's simply not big enough for it to be considered it's own franchise separate from the Super Mario franchise.

As for it being considered a separate series in Super Smash Bros., well it already isn't, but barring the cop-out answer, it wouldn't really make sense to have a new series where the only character is another version of Mario. Why would said character not be a Mario character?

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I’d say Paper Mario is a Wario and Yoshi kind of Series. It is set in an entire different universe with a different style of gameplay, but is still Mario. I’d give it a unique series symbol instead of the standard Mario Mushroom.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

cries in literally no mainline SMT content in Smash but TMS and Persona content

 

[Theguy123]

Seeing some talk of whether paper Mario being it’s own series or not. Paper Mario takes place in a book. Dunno if that helps the argument of if it’s it’s own series or not but I’m sure the smarter people in this group will know.

Personally I think paper Mario taking place in a book means it’s it’s own series.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

The Paper Mario spirits are listed as part of the Mario series. Enough said.

 

[RileyXY1]

The Paper Mario spirits are listed as part of the Mario series. Enough said.

Although Smash does consider Mario Kart its own series, but only in terms of music. Otherwise it is considered a part of the Mario series, with it even using the Mario series' icon.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Although Smash does consider Mario Kart its own series, but only in terms of music. Otherwise it is considered a part of the Mario series, with it even using the Mario series' icon.

Well, the Paper Mario music is listed as part of the Mario series as well, not separated like Mario Kart.

Which is a shame, considering how many good music tracks are from that series, but I guess it wouldn't be fair to give one RPG series their own music section but not the other, considering Mario and Luigi also has many great songs.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wish TMS at least got some music along with the one spirit if it HAS to stay at one…

or an Itsuki or Tsubasa Mii that’s fine too

 

[Opossum]

Although Smash does consider Mario Kart its own series, but only in terms of music. Otherwise it is considered a part of the Mario series, with it even using the Mario series' icon.

And that's the thing. If a juggernaut series like Mario Kart couldn't be listed as its own legitimate series with a separate icon, and only get there half way, there's no chance Paper Mario would be considered a new series, even leaving aside its current status in-game.

 

[Idon]

cries in literally no mainline SMT content in Smash but TMS and Persona content

Don't worry, their insistence on including content that comes as close to SMT without including SMT is just an indicator that they're in and are holding off for the inevitable reveal.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Huh, Nintendo privated the Switch Lite reveal trailer for some reason. You can copy and paste this into internet archive if you want to see for yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59yuBFRSZdg

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Don't worry, their insistence on including content that comes as close to SMT without including SMT is just an indicator that they're in and are holding off for the inevitable reveal.

I'll take a Jack Frost Mii costume, anything please.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'd say Reyn's Driver is the inverse of it; Rather than a sword modified to also act as a shield, it's a shield with a pointy bit on the end.


I'm having trouble following the train of thought here so I might have misinterpreted something.

Paper Mario may have a completely different gameplay style by nature (unless you're Super Paper Mario), but it still involves the same characters (the protagonist doesn't even shift to someone else) and enemies, with additions either being stuff you could see being in the mainline stuff or just slapped on there because reasons (unless you're Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, or Super Paper Mario). Beyond that, it's simply not big enough for it to be considered it's own franchise separate from the Super Mario franchise.

As for it being considered a separate series in Super Smash Bros., well it already isn't, but barring the cop-out answer, it wouldn't really make sense to have a new series where the only character is another version of Mario. Why would said character not be a Mario character?

It has a ton of unique enemies that never appear in Super Mario, so... not all the same. It veers off from the norm massively, at least compared to Mario & Luigi who only has a few unique bosses at best(and a tiny slew of unique monsters), but otherwise, mostly recolors of previous characters(not unlike Super Mario RPG). Now, Paper Mario still uses a fair amount of regular species, but even in the first game, has its own unique creatures.

Paper Mario is an entirely different universe anyway. That alone is more than enough reason for it to get its own symbol. It's not Super Mario in itself, it's Paper Mario, starring a different universe's Mario entirely who even teams up with multiple characters who has zero relation to Super Mario even as a species alone. A big thing to remember is that while it shares some species, Paper Mario went out of its way to make a ton of new ones. It's not till Sticker Star where they're forced to use mainly regular Super Mario characters as an annoying mandate, and that's also when Paper Mario teamed up with Mario and Luigi themselves. As well as Paper Bowser met up with regular Bowser. The Mario & Luigi series are the same as the regular Super Mario universe. They intentionally separated it in PM only. That alone, is, yes, enough to get one's own symbol. Since it's a symbol that also represents their own universe(just like WarioWare or Donkey Kong Country, both fully connected to Super Mario... moreso than Paper Mario is as a universe, anyway).

The Paper Mario spirits are listed as part of the Mario series. Enough said.

That's not a good argument and is completely dismantled when that's how Wario started out. A Super Mario trophy. ...And when he joins, his own standalone universe. There's precedent it can happen, from the same base series no less. How they're listed as stuff like trophies and spirits don't relate very well to stages(we barely have one of these) or what games they directly represent, or how unique the games are.

Paper Mario is very unique and can easily be its own universe. Likewise, it can work fine under Super Mario too. Both are legitimate ways to go about it. It overall depends upon the content in itself. And how Paper Mario is represented. You won't see Mario fold himself(he actually can't do that, though he can come close with some power-ups in Galaxy).

 

[volbound1700]

Regarding Paper Mario, I can see both side of the arguments. It fits both as a Mario Series and its own series.

However, it will all depend on whether Sakurai considers it a separate series or not. I want to say that Paper Mario content has always been lumped into the Mario series in all of the Smash games in the past.

 

[SNEKeater]

I'll take a Jack Frost Mii costume, anything please.

A Jack Frost Mii Costume (but a good one, like Sans, Cuphead or Shantae) could be cool, specially if comes with a track.

Preferably, Boss Battle B2 from SMT IV.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I better not speak of Shulk and Pyra coming from different universes with both connections and varying races that don't exist in each. Oops!

A Jack Frost Mii Costume (but a good one, like Sans, Cuphead or Shantae) could be cool, specially if comes with a track.

Preferably, Boss Battle B2 from SMT IV.

YESSS YESYESYES I LOVE SMT MUSIC.

Tbh they should have diversified the DLC. Have stage packs and music packs.

 

[Guynamednelson]

music packs

But then there wouldn't be any need for Sephiroth since you could just buy FFVII music that way.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

But then there wouldn't be any need for Sephiroth since you could just buy FFVII nusic that way.

Uuuh how about music tracks with costumes? But the licensing might not be worth it.

 

[RileyXY1]

Uuuh how about music tracks with costumes? But the licensing might not be worth it.

Especially considering that all the Mii costumes that came with songs have been indie characters, where licensing is piss easy.

 

[zumaddy]

It's a metaphor for the series.

F
Although actually I've played every PM and Origami King is my 3rd favourite
I still want Paper Mario as a character so bad, but it's not gonna be happening as the last Ultimate DLC

 

[chocolatejr9]

It's a metaphor for the series.

This remimds me of a tweet I saw Chuggaconroy post today about how we know next to nothing about how Paper Mario games are developed, like they'd rather keep it a secret for some reason. All we've gotten are that Paper Mario was supposed to be SMRPG2, Sticker Star was supposed to be like the original games, and Origami King's concept art was unlockable in game. But even then, we only found out about OK two(?) months before release, and we didn't know how it played until two WEEKS before release.

This isn't related to anything, it's just something I thought would be interesting to share.

 

[Twilord]

If there was an "off brand Smash Bros" - clearly based on gaming genres but not specific characters/franchises - what genres would you want to see covered/parodied?

I feel like Scrimblo would have to be there; possibly a FIFA/Pro-Evo stand in - Soccorceror?

 

[ahemtoday]

Honestly, if you interpret the woman in that Mach Rider arcade game as being Mach Rider (which, considering she's next to Mach Rider's bike, isn't an unreasonable interpretation), you've also got a knife to work with for her moveset. A lady with a knife on a motorcycle seems plenty interesting to me.

 

[chocolatejr9]

If there was an "off brand Smash Bros" - clearly based on gaming genres but not specific characters/franchises - what genres would you want to see covered/parodied?

I feel like Scrimblo would have to be there; possibly a FIFA/Pro-Evo stand in - Soccorceror?

Don't forget JRPG McSwordsman. He's the best one.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Pokemon seems to get left out of the completion conversation, probably because the franchise has a lot of characters already. But it lacks playable fighters in some regards, so if we're going for completion, it would need more imo:
Eevee: Has basically become the series' mascot after Pikachu.
Scizor: I think "worse Pikachu" is a poor choice as the only gen 2 rep, so why not a Pokemon who represents one of gen 2's new evolutions and new types? To be clear, we keep Pichu and just add Scizor alongside.
Blaziken or Gardevoir: Gen 3 lacks a playable fighter.
Zoroark: Gen 5 lacks a playable fighter.
Zacian and Zamazenta/Rillaboom/Cinderace/Intelleon/Toxtricity: Gen 8 lacks a playable fighter, as well as clear frontrunner for who that could be.

 

[Twilord]

Don't forget JRPG McSwordsman. He's the best one.

Good point. Think I might go with "Jared Peggie Swordchild"

 

[Mushroomguy12]

1987年のきょう『夢工場ドキドキパニック』フジテレビから発売!!
夢工場というのは､フジサンケイグループのイベント｡
タイアップ商品だったのだけど､ゲームの完成度があまりも高かった｡
その後マリオのキャラに置き換えて海外で発売｡逆輸入的に『スーパーマリオUSA』になりました｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/Q20VhpiLmH

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) July 10, 2021

Released today from Fuji TV in "Doki Doki Panic" in 1987 !! Yume Factory is an event of the Fujisankei Group. It was a tie-up product, but the game was too complete. After that, it was replaced with Mario characters and released overseas. It became "Super Mario USA" as a reimport. #Smash Bros SP

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Huh, Nintendo privated the Switch Lite reveal trailer for some reason. You can copy and paste this into internet archive if you want to see for yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59yuBFRSZdg

Finally
A Switch Lite OLED Model

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Regarding Paper Mario, I can see both side of the arguments. It fits both as a Mario Series and its own series.

However, it will all depend on whether Sakurai considers it a separate series or not. I want to say that Paper Mario content has always been lumped into the Mario series in all of the Smash games in the past.

not only that, I don't think they see Paper Mario as a truly separate thing from Mario like we do

Like I mean they acknowledge that he's Paper Mario instead of Super Mario, but what I mean is I don't think they see the character differently than they do Mario from the M&L games. It's got a stage which is pretty nice but the fact that it got a stage without a character I think says enough on how they perceive Paper Mario

I'd say he only gets in with Banjo levels of support in the future

 

[chocolatejr9]

1987年のきょう『夢工場ドキドキパニック』フジテレビから発売!!
夢工場というのは､フジサンケイグループのイベント｡
タイアップ商品だったのだけど､ゲームの完成度があまりも高かった｡
その後マリオのキャラに置き換えて海外で発売｡逆輸入的に『スーパーマリオUSA』になりました｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/Q20VhpiLmH

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) July 10, 2021

Released today from Fuji TV in "Doki Doki Panic" in 1987 !! Yume Factory is an event of the Fujisankei Group. It was a tie-up product, but the game was too complete. After that, it was replaced with Mario characters and released overseas. It became "Super Mario USA" as a reimport. #Smash Bros SP

Can I make a joke about the Doki Doki characters coming to Smash?

 

[Guynamednelson]

1987年のきょう『夢工場ドキドキパニック』フジテレビから発売!!
夢工場というのは､フジサンケイグループのイベント｡
タイアップ商品だったのだけど､ゲームの完成度があまりも高かった｡
その後マリオのキャラに置き換えて海外で発売｡逆輸入的に『スーパーマリオUSA』になりました｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/Q20VhpiLmH

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) July 10, 2021

Released today from Fuji TV in "Doki Doki Panic" in 1987 !! Yume Factory is an event of the Fujisankei Group. It was a tie-up product, but the game was too complete. After that, it was replaced with Mario characters and released overseas. It became "Super Mario USA" as a reimport. #Smash Bros SP

Pfft, Sakurai revealed he was a hack with this post. Doesn't he know that Super Mario Bros. 2 (the eternal GotY baybee) was originally Harry Potter and the ****ing Wizard? I know! What the hell?

 

[Merengue]

(mostly) Purple army of first-party characters I really want;

1. Porky Minch
2. Waluigi
3. Mimikyu
4. Rex with Roc

Frankly I don't have many characters left that I really want. Mimikyu still stings.

Hmm Everything else is fine except for the first choice. I think that's the capsule

 

[Mushroomguy12]

2008年のきょう『ペルソナ4』(Persona 4)発売!!
『女神転生』シリーズの流れを組む本作は､グラフィックよし! サウンドよし! シナリオよし! 全てよし!! の無敵ゲーム｡
スマブラのステージ"メメントス"では､『P4』の曲をかけるとイメージカラーが黄色になります｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/gOln3K9e1c

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) July 10, 2021

2008 "Persona 4" released today !! This work, which forms the flow of the "Megami Tensei" series, is an invincible game with good graphics! Good sound! Good scenario! Good all! On the Smash Bros. stage "Mementos", the image color turns yellow when the song "P4" is played. #Smash Bros SP

 

[PSIGuy]

"Good graphics!"

get bent