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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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ZelDan

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Still find it wild how we got a Tekken character after Heihachi's mii costume dropped last year. You just know Sakurai did it on purpose to throw us off the scent since everyone and their mother was predicting Bamco when FP2 was announced. I'm hyped about Kazuya, that makes two characters from my top 5 most wants in Smash (Minecraft and Tekken).

Looking on the footage again, Kazuya has moves that put opponents in the stun state and also the crumple state, he even can trip opponents. If EWGF is as busted in Smash as it is in Tekken then this character will be a BEAST to fight. Like, imagine fighting someone like Joker who ftilts you and you KBD then EWGF the **** out of them.

This is gonna be Smash in two weeks :bowsette:
Damn and I thought I was tired of Terry and his jab + jab + down B...
 
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Evil Trapezium

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so master chief is confirmed to be the last character? Is smash speculation over?
It doesn't seem like he's going to be in the game if this means anything.

 

N3ON

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Censor dodge removed
Yeah, well check out this bingo I made a whole year agoView attachment 319510
I see your bingo and I raise you the bingo I used before the March 2018 Direct, thereby singlehandedly willing Ultimate into existence

BingoDirect.png

You're welcome.
 
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7NATOR

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Still find it wild how we got a Tekken character after Heihachi's mii costume dropped last year. You just know Sakurai did it on purpose to throw us off the scent since everyone and their mother was predicting Bamco when FP2 was announced. I'm hyped about Kazuya, that makes two characters from my top 5 most wants in Smash (Minecraft and Tekken).

Looking on the footage again, Kazuya has moves that put opponents in the stun state and also the crumple state, he even can trip opponents. If EWGF is as busted in Smash as it is in Tekken then this character will be a BEAST to fight. Like, imagine fighting someone like Joker who ftilts you and you KBD then EWGF the **** out of them.

This is gonna be Smash in two weeks :bowsette:
I just realized, but because Smash has stale moves unlike Tekken, Doing repeat EWGF might not be as good of an option as it is in Tekken

One thing I also wonder is if Kazuya is gonna have counter hits like in Tekken. That would definitely double down on the Punish game aspect of both Kazuya and Tekken itself, as more moves that wouldn't Stun or Crumple would on Counter hit

Damn and I thought I was tired of Terry and his jab + jab + down B...
EWGF is probably gonna be very exception heavy to input, they might keep the Frame perfect/Near frame Perfect input to do the EWGF. I don't think it's gonna be a common option like Jab Jab Power Dunk
 

Guybrush20X6

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So after Kazuya, one fan rule is partially dead, two lines of speculation have been strengthened, and we've got a third character that I like to classify as a second choice fighter.

Partially Dead Fan Rule: Mii costumes disconfirm
It's still the case for specific characters but the Mii costumes don't disconfirm the series or the company they are attached to. This means we could, at least in theory still see a Fallout character, an Undertale character, Rayman or Mugman.

Strengthened Speculation Line 1: VA theory
The theory is that Smash DLC does not have the money to pay for an international voice cast so any new characters would either only have two set of voices, use recycled lines or have none at all. This has been true of every fighter so far with Pyra and Mythra being the only ones with English and Japanese, Sephiroth and Kazuya being solely Japanese, Min Min speaking Chinese in all languages and Steve not even having his famous OOF! This line of speculation mainly hurts characters from existing series that are already multi-lingual such as Pokémon and Sonic

Strengthened Speculation Line 2: Runner up Choices
With a Tekken character getting in, it lines up with the idea that Pass 2 is made of fighters that missed the boat the first time around. ARMS and Xenoblade 2 were too late for the base game, Minecraft was apparently in five years of negotiation, Sephiroth appeared to have brought the rest of the Final Fantasy 7 representation they wished to bring to the game and Sakurai had already spoken about wanting to include a Tekken character but having moveset difficulty. Fighters that have been discussed as having been considered for Smash before being dropped go back a long way but between Ultimate and Smash 4, include Rhythm Heaven characters, Decidueye and possibly more we don't know about.

Second Choice Fighters?
ARMS, Xenoblade and Tekken all had one thing in common in that the perceived front runner character (Spring Man, Rex and Heihachi) was already tied into Smash in some significant way with Spring Man being an assist trophy and the other two being paid DLC costumes. All apparent replacements are major characters in their own right with Min Min being part of the fighters ensemble, Pyra/Mythra being the actual focus of the plot and Kazuya being the series first protagonist and first twist villain.
 
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Þe 1 → Way

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Yeah, well check out this bingo I made a whole year agoView attachment 319510
This. This is the post a person who has perfected the art of game theory. They’ve invented a strategy that results in a perfect win. Its a method that will be tought for centuries to come! In this essay I will-
 

Wunderwaft

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I just realized, but because Smash has stale moves unlike Tekken, Doing repeat EWGF might not be as good of an option as it is in Tekken

One thing I also wonder is if Kazuya is gonna have counter hits like in Tekken. That would definitely double down on the Punish game aspect of both Kazuya and Tekken itself, as more moves that wouldn't Stun or Crumple would on Counter hit



EWGF is probably gonna be very exception heavy to input, they might keep the Frame perfect/Near frame Perfect input to do the EWGF. I don't think it's gonna be a common option like Jab Jab Power Dunk
Adding counter hits that stun and crumple for Kazuya would expand his already strong punish game, it'll make approaching Kazuya in the ground all the more dangerous, not to mention he can also just say no to projectiles by wave dashing. Kazuya in general is a high risk high reward character who has great punishment and oki tools in Tekken and relies on mix-ups. I'm excited in how his Smash iteration will adapt this playstyle accurately.
 

lady_sky skipper

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Yep. Worked on the official artwork for every 'X' game (Namco x Capcom, Project X Zone 1+2, etc.)


Personally, I see series like F.E. and Xenoblade returning, with series like Kid Icarus, Wars, F-Zero, Another Code, Hotel Dusk, Disaster, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Captain Rainbow, and the like being added to the mix.
F-Zero characters would be awesome, especially if they have other characters besides Captain Falcon as guest stars. I'd like to see Jody Summer, Black Shadow, and Samurai Goroh among others. Nice to see some other obscure pics in your list as well. :)
 

RaintheCriminalWhirlwind

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So after Kazuya, one fan rule is partially dead, two lines of speculation have been strengthened, and we've got a third character that I like to classify as a second choice fighter.

Partially Dead Fan Rule: Mii costumes disconfirm
It's still the case for specific characters but the Mii costumes don't disconfirm the series or the company they are attached to. This means we could, at least in theory still see a Fallout character, an Undertale character, Rayman or Mugman.

Strengthened Speculation Line 1: VA theory
The theory is that Smash DLC does not have the money to pay for an international voice cast so any new characters would either only have two set of voices, use recycled lines or have none at all. This has been true of every fighter so far with Pyra and Mythra being the only ones with English and Japanese, Sephiroth and Kazuya being solely Japanese, Min Min speaking Chinese in all languages and Steve not even having his famous OOF! This line of speculation mainly hurts characters from existing series that are already multi-lingual such as Pokémon and Sonic

Strengthened Speculation Line 2: Runner up Choices
With a Tekken character getting in, it lines up with the idea that Pass 2 is made of fighters that missed the boat the first time around. ARMS and Xenoblade 2 were too late for the base game, Minecraft was apparently in five years of negotiation, Sephiroth appeared to have brought the rest of the Final Fantasy 7 representation they wished to bring to the game and Sakurai had already spoken about wanting to include a Tekken character but having moveset difficulty. Fighters that have been discussed as having been considered for Smash before being dropped go back a long way but between Ultimate and Smash 4, include Rhythm Heaven characters, Decidueye and possibly more we don't know about.

Second Choice Fighters?
ARMS, Xenoblade and Tekken all had one thing in common in that the perceived front runner character (Spring Man, Rex and Heihachi) was already tied into Smash in some significant way with Spring Man being an assist trophy and the other two being paid DLC costumes. All apparent replacements are major characters in their own right with Min Min being part of the fighters ensemble, Pyra/Mythra being the actual focus of the plot and Kazuya being the series first protagonist and first twist villain.
So....Potential Chun-li?
 

Cutie Gwen

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The promotional trailers for that game were so good. Why did it have to be so bad ?
Nono, you're thinking of Street Fighter x Tekken, Tekken x Street Fighter has been requested but never made
Adding counter hits that stun and crumple for Kazuya would expand his already strong punish game, it'll make approaching Kazuya in the ground all the more dangerous, not to mention he can also just say no to projectiles by wave dashing. Kazuya in general is a high risk high reward character who has great punishment and oki tools in Tekken and relies on mix-ups. I'm excited in how his Smash iteration will adapt this playstyle accurately.
Ok but how will we be able to tell counterhits? As a life long Strive player, there were no constant zoomins or COUNTER written all over the screen smh, bad game design Sakurai
 

ZelDan

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Tried that, didn't work.
Well, keep on doing it until it works then. Even if it never does, its still better than being combative.

I'll put it this way, if you do things the way I said, you may eventually get a positive result, or at worst, you get a "neutral" one. Doing things the way you have been has only been getting you negative results clearly.

neutral is still better than negative.
 

WeirdChillFever

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Here’s my thoughts on speculation going forward:

The biggest winners of Kazuya are to me, series or companies that already had Mii Costumes in the DLC. To me, the biggest benefactors are the following series and companies:

-Ubisoft had that whole Byleth situation. It’s possible that they settled for Mii Costumes in FP1, but are coming back with a character in FP2 now that we know that Heihachi wasn’t ”saved“ to return later. It’s a decent enough plausible deniability to give Ezio or Ray-Man a fighting chance, especially with the base game Ray-Man Spirits possibly fitting a second chance theory as well.
-Capcom I think is back on the table, although it probably won’t be Monster Hunter. It‘s very possible the costumes were a “strike while the iron’s hot” type of deal, and that the Capcom character is still coming up.
-Zelda is back in a position to not be hampered by the FP2 bonus costume.
-Splatoon doesn’t have to worry about Callie & Marie either.

Some other thing to take into consideration is the status of Spirit Events. Their deconfirmatory status was based on the similar premise of “saving” the Spirits for the Spirit Board, I don’t think Spirit Events are a particularly “hard“ deconfirm anymore.
Some Spirit events to keep in mind:

-Pokémon. The Pokémon Spirit Event was released for the launch of SwSh iirc. Since then, it’s gotten DLC and probably five new series of anime.

-Paper Mario: The Spirit Event that didn’t even include Paper Mario himself. Plus, Paper Mario is much more than Origami King and Paper Mario and in terms of content, we’re missing a good amount of partners for example.

-Astral Chain, Ring Fit and Resident Evil could happen but eh, you know.

I still think the biggest winners however, are characters that recently had a game come out. Corrin was very much picked at the end of his DLC run for this purpose, and I’d scratch my head if they planned a fighter’s pass that ended two years from the time where they decided on the characters, without using a slot for something on the horizon like at least the Smash 4 DLC deliberately aimed to, and what was possibly the driving force behind Byleth as well.
 

Gengar84

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Master Chief was probably deconfirmed earlier today, what halos community manager tweeted out states as much. From here on out, I throw my stock behind Eggman. We've been getting a lot of villains, he'd be super unique, and then maybe we'll get some cool good vs evil story dlc, since it's only characters that's been strictly stated to be coming off the table.


Thoughts on Nintendos e3: it was decent. There's definitely been worse. I'm hype for Mario party and Warioware. I'm not personally hype for metroid, but I know it is hype. Tekken deserved a spot, it's just super weird to me that it took until the last two dlc to get there. We're probably not getting Zelda until early 2023 if they're "aiming for 2022," that's what I took from that. Animal Crossing is dead it seems, which is a huge bummer for a game that really could have kept on going. Didn't they promise three years of content? I still can't believe how fast they let that game stale.

Overall? We still haven't seen Sony, and won't for who knows how long, but I don't see them really oohing and aahing the general public. In my eyes, Microsoft takes this E3. Way more major series announcements, lots of exclusives, almost all day one on GP. Game Pass is a force to be reckoned with.

Future speculation: There's still something Microsoft + Nintendo brewing. Phil Spencer doesn't have a Switch on his hint shelf for nothing. Early rumors suggested that whatever it is wasn't going to be shown off until fall anyways, a lot of people just expected it at E3. I hope Nintendo does get the full game pass library somehow, it'd be a really big get for Switch owners. It'd also put some pressure on Nintendo to provide a halfway decent online service.
So the next background color is probably green, Microsoft has been hinting at something with Nintendo, and Master Chief and Doomguy have basically been disconfirmed due to developer interviews. I know it’s stupid to get my hopes up over what is probably nothing but…

 

Rie Sonomura

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Yep. Worked on the official artwork for every 'X' game (Namco x Capcom, Project X Zone 1+2, etc.)


Personally, I see series like F.E. and Xenoblade returning, with series like Kid Icarus, Wars, F-Zero, Another Code, Hotel Dusk, Disaster, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Captain Rainbow, and the like being added to the mix.
How about ARMS? Or Splatoon since Monolith produces that?
 
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Dinoman96

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You know what I find really weird?

People are now saying that Chief is deconfirmed because of that 343 guy talking about him...but the thing is, that same guy had talked about him beforehand and no one but me seemed to notice or care.


Like I brought this up earlier this year and y'all mostly handwaved it off. It's just kinda weird how NOW people are taking it as a deconfirmation.
 
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ZeldaPlayer87

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This may seem like a rude thing to say, but I hope they don’t actually use the the announcer for Tekken when they call Kazuya’s name in game. I hope it was just used for the trailer. I much prefer Xander calling his name.
 
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Stratos

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Banjo & Kazooie and Steve are owned by Microsoft and made their appearance on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. So Master Chief, who is the mascot of Xbox Game Studios, should come as the latest DLC new character.
 

Gengar84

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Banjo & Kazooie and Steve are owned by Microsoft and made their appearance on Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. So Master Chief, who is the mascot of Xbox Game Studios, should come as the latest DLC new character.
Yeah, I definitely agree that Master Chief would be totally deserving of a spot in Smash. Halo was a revolutionary game for the FPS genre and really helped to put X-Box on the map. I just personally prefer the Battletoads. Battletoads was RARE’s first breakout hit and the company went on to be a huge part of Nintendo’s history.

Growing up with the NES and SNES, RARE was a big part of my childhood. The company also has a very important history with Nintendo that always gets overlooked these days. At one point, Nintendo owned nearly half the shares of the company so they were practically a part of Nintendo. Many of the most iconic SNES and N64 games were developed by them. The majority of RARE’s iconic characters were basically created as Nintendo characters so I never really feel right just lumping them in as Microsoft characters.
 
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Hydreigonfan01

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new theory: the less someone seriously believes their theory, the likelier it is. Serious speculation has done nothing for us. You know what has? Meme Theories. Fire Theory (and flame) and Color Theory are jokes, but they work.
My Dante and Demi-Fiend double reveal theory started as a joke, but that didn't come true.
 

Opossum

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Haven't given my E3 thoughts yet, so here goes. Over all, a very good show, even if the thing I wanted most (a new Fire Emblem) didn't show up when I thought it would. Metroid Dread actually being revived after all these years was easily the highlight for me, and Kazuya is neat too. And hey, Advance Wars.


Kazuya getting in also means DLC Mii costumes don't disconfirm a series wholesale, so...Ezio time, baby.
 

Mr. Robotto

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I have no clue if this has been said already here or not but thought I'd pop up and share anyways. There are already 2 confirmed tracks for Kazuya, the track playing in his trailer is a remix of his Theme from Tekken 2 - Emotionless Passion, the track playing during the Sakurai bit where he showcases his moves is the Arcade Version of the Tekken 3 Character Select Theme.

I'm looking forward to the tracks Kazuya will bring with him, Tekken has absolute banger songs. Personally hoping for Snow Castle, Karma (Electric Fountain), Moonlit Wilderness and some Tekken Tag funky goodness like Xiaoyu Stage and School Stage. Tekken has such amazing tracks in general, and honestly any kind of selection would be amazing.
 
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SpectreJordan

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Tekken has so many options for Mii costumes & who knows we might not even get any Tekken Miis (we somehow didn’t get any Xenoblade costumes). But I hope my boy Raven shows up, if I was in charge he would’ve gotten in over Kazuya even if it confused everyone except myself lmao

0DAE8D3D-2FD4-4D1B-8ACB-893730DC325A.jpg

I’m hoping we get a Monokuma premium costume in this wave too. I think he’d be fitting…. Even if it’s just because they both have the glowing red eye lmao

I also wonder how feasible it is for there to be an Among Us costume. It seems like everyone wants a piece of that pie (It’s been in major MS, Sony & Nintendo presentations). Depending on how long it takes to develop costumes, I could see Nintendo getting one at the last minute. It’d be another way to try & recreate that Sans hype.
 

Gengar84

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Tekken has so many options for Mii costumes & who knows we might not even get any Tekken Miis (we somehow didn’t get any Xenoblade costumes). But I hope my boy Raven shows up, if I was in charge he would’ve gotten in over Kazuya even if it confused everyone except myself lmao

View attachment 319512
I’m hoping we get a Monokuma premium costume in this wave too. I think he’d be fitting…. Even if it’s just because they both have the glowing red eye lmao

I also wonder how feasible it is for there to be an Among Us costume. It seems like everyone wants a piece of that pie (It’s been in major MS, Sony & Nintendo presentations). Depending on how long it takes to develop costumes, I could see Nintendo getting one at the last minute. It’d be another way to try & recreate that Sans hype.
Is it just me or does Raven remind anyone else of Blade? I’ve never played the recent Tekken games but I was a huge fan of the first two Blade movies.
 

ZeldaPlayer87

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I have no clue if this has been said already here or not but thought I'd pop up and share anyways. There are already 2 confirmed tracks for Kazuya, the track playing in his trailer is a remix of his Theme from Tekken 2 - Emotionless Passion, the track playing during the Sakurai bit where he showcases his moves is the Arcade Version of the Tekken 3 Character Select Theme.

I'm looking forward to the tracks Kazuya will bring with him, Tekken has absolute banger songs. Personally hoping for Snow Castle, Karma (Electric Fountain), Moonlit Wilderness and some Tekken Tag funky goodness like Xiaoyu Stage and School Stage. Tekken has such amazing tracks in general, and honestly any kind of selection would be amazing.
I thought one of them was “Kazuya’s Corridor” from Tekken 4?
 

Mr. Robotto

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I thought one of them was “Kazuya’s Corridor” from Tekken 4?
Kazuya's Corridor is basically a slightly altered version of Emotionless Passion (Kazuya's Theme from Tekken 2). Seems like that theme got remixed in Smash to simulate Kazuya's Corridor and includes Electric Guitar as heard in the latter half of the trailer. Unless both a remix and the Kazuya Corridor version got in which would be quite hype.
 
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Twilord

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So Kazuya:
  1. Is Bandai Namco
  2. Is in-house
  3. Is ongoing
  4. Wasn't Lloyd, because his missing Mii Costume would have been too obvious
  5. Had A LOT of cultural impact
  6. Did have a very noteworthy impact on gaming history
  7. Was huge in the 90s
  8. Is in the Digimon Multiverse
  9. Does have a really neat transformation mechanic

And for extra credit:

  • Nintendo demonstrated they still have a lot of respect for the Game & Watch / Tamagotchi model of game design during the Zelda segment.

So really, I was 49% correct. That is a passing grade right?
 
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chocolatejr9

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So Kazuya:
  1. Is Bandai Namco
  2. Is in-house
  3. Is ongoing
  4. Wasn't Lloyd, because his missing Mii Costume would have been too obvious
  5. Had A LOT of cultural impact
  6. Did have a very noteworthy impact on gaming history
  7. Was huge in the 90s
  8. Is in the Digimon Multiverse
  9. Does have a really neat transformation mechanic

And for extra credit:

  • Nintendo demonstrated they still have a lot of respect for the Game & Watch / Tamagotchi model of game design during the Zelda segment.

So really, I was 49% correct. That is a passing grade right?
Sorry. You need at least a 68% to pass.
 
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