Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Garteam]

I'm still trying to theorize who I believe FP11 could be in relation to Second Chances theory and our previous final characters.

That being said, I still have no doubts of who I want it to be:

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think Paper Mario’s chances are looking pretty decent right now

 

[Calamitas]

Anyone know when the next DLC fighter is to be revealed?

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say a Direct in the first week of September. That month generally tends to most reliably get general Directs, as far as I remember.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I believe Tekken does fit this whole “fix and second chance theory”

a character that I think also fits it and could work with the color green…. MAYBE the Zelda champions?Idk

I don’t think Chief or Doomguy would fit this torch unless shockingly, either one or both of them were considered earlier than we think.
Green made me think Rash from Battletoads but I don’t think we know if Rare was approached on such a topic.

 

[Twilord]

Sorry. You need at least a 68% to pass.

Ahhh Sukamon!!

I think I will still try to mod Agumon (and Mametchi) into Melee as best I can - once I add some finishing touches to my Shadow The Hedgehog mod.

I'm still trying to theorize who I believe FP11 could be in relation to Second Chances theory and our previous final characters.

That being said, I still have no doubts of who I want it to be:

Kazuya fits that model pretty well to be fair.

I have no idea who comes next. My go to guess is down for the count. I do think "Legendary Trainer" with Decidueye makes sense... a cross generation trainer would fix the Kanto bias.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I still think Splatoon is the last piece for the second chance theory

Squid Sisters Assist Trophy in base, Squid Sisters Miis in the same wave as the Heihachi Mii no less, mostly Splatoon 1 content, not a lot of 2 content, NO MUSIC from the Octo Expansion in particular

I was thinking octoling initially, but since Sak said the last two have figurines, confirmed we are indeed reaching the end, Kazuya has a figurine, AND I’m assuming Amiibo don’t count…

calling it now, Off the Hook is our final character. Enjoy your cephalopod pop star overlords

also they’d fit the WoL final battle trailer theme since the final splatfest of 2 was Chaos vs Order. Dharkon is a being of chaos and Galeem a being of order…

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I find it ironic this was posted on the same day as the RTC thread was rating League of Legends.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I still think Splatoon is the last piece for the second chance theory

Squid Sisters Assist Trophy in base, Squid Sisters Miis in the same wave as the Heihachi Mii no less, mostly Splatoon 1 content, not a lot of 2 content, NO MUSIC from the Octo Expansion in particular

I was thinking octoling initially, but since Sak said the last two have figurines, confirmed we are indeed reaching the end, Kazuya has a figurine, AND I’m assuming Amiibo don’t count…

calling it now, Off the Hook is our final character. Enjoy your cephalopod pop star overlords

Oh I’m going all in on this. Besides Paper Mario, I’m very much predicting Off The Hook. Maybe Ezio or Shantae. Point is, I actually have a lot of characters that `i could see joining. Still, Off The Hook is my main prediction now.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I believe it was last year in fact that Off the Hook had a figma revealed and it’s available now (probably was available as of the Pythra presentation)

figma Off the Hook

Don't get cooked, stay off the hook! From the popular video game "Splatoon 2" comes figma action figures of the cute and sassy MC "Pearl" and the dazzling DJ genius "Marina" of the pop-idol duo "Off the Hook"! The smooth yet posable figm...

www.goodsmile.info

Coincidence? I think not!

 

[Twilord]

I still think Splatoon is the last piece for the second chance theory

Squid Sisters Assist Trophy in base, Squid Sisters Miis in the same wave as the Heihachi Mii no less, mostly Splatoon 1 content, not a lot of 2 content, NO MUSIC from the Octo Expansion in particular

I was thinking octoling initially, but since Sak said the last two have figurines, confirmed we are indeed reaching the end, Kazuya has a figurine, AND I’m assuming Amiibo don’t count…

calling it now, Off the Hook is our final character. Enjoy your cephalopod pop star overlords

also they’d fit the WoL final battle trailer theme since the final splatfest of 2 was Chaos vs Order. Dharkon is a being of chaos and Galeem a being of order…

That makes sense; also fits glitch theory in the off chance that means anything. Though I am nowhere near as confident as I was with my last theory and that was wrong.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That makes sense; also fits glitch theory in the off chance that means anything. Though I am nowhere near as confident as I was with my last theory and that was wrong.

Regarding Graze Glitch, I recall reading Kazuya has a canonical ability that would fit the bill of graze glitch. Idk what exactly he calls it though but it’s probably related to the Devil Gene

 

[3BitSaurus]

I find it ironic this was posted on the same day as the RTC thread was rating League of Legends.

Huh. I was expecting something yesterday, but it looks like TPC is still insistent on dancing to the beat of their own drum.

Regardless, I'm cautiously optimistic about this.

 

[Flyboy]

I still think Splatoon is the last piece for the second chance theory

Squid Sisters Assist Trophy in base, Squid Sisters Miis in the same wave as the Heihachi Mii no less, mostly Splatoon 1 content, not a lot of 2 content, NO MUSIC from the Octo Expansion in particular

I was thinking octoling initially, but since Sak said the last two have figurines, confirmed we are indeed reaching the end, Kazuya has a figurine, AND I’m assuming Amiibo don’t count…

calling it now, Off the Hook is our final character. Enjoy your cephalopod pop star overlords

also they’d fit the WoL final battle trailer theme since the final splatfest of 2 was Chaos vs Order. Dharkon is a being of chaos and Galeem a being of order…

Off The Hook as a final duo fighter would be fan-friggin-tastic. I'm not going to place all my chips on a Splatoon rep but I do think one makes sense and would bring a ton of new content, and if we got Off The Hook instead of the avatar character it'd be a great way to twist things up.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Regarding Graze Glitch, I recall reading Kazuya has a canonical ability that would fit the bill of graze glitch. Idk what exactly he calls it though but it’s probably related to the Devil Gene

Wait.

Doesn't the trailer show Kazuya crouch-dashing through Hadoken?

EDIT: Right here-

I'm curious now. Is he just low enough that he can avoid it or does crouch-dashing have some special properties in Tekken? Any Tekken players who can answer this?

 

[Staarih]

I could definitely see a Splatoon character being the last one, would expand on the existing content with Octo Expansion stuff and Splatoon 3 on the way, and also to end the pass in not necessarily the highest of notes, but still enough to create a buzz - Japan in particular would be fed by a Splatoon reveal.

But I'll also lowkey keep clinging onto the anomaly that is Undertale.

I just have a hunch that the sixth slot, being somewhat of an "extra" addition, is something negotiated last minute or decided later, or some other weird circumstances.
Or not lol.

 

[Dinoman96]

I don't see the idols getting in over Octolings.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't see the idols getting in over Octolings.

We got Min Min over Spring Man, Pyra & Mythra over Rex, and Kazuya over Jin or Heihachi

the only “normal” ones this pass were Steve and Sephiroth (ergo, not chosen “over” an “obvious” choice)

throw caution to the wind I say

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I could definitely see a Splatoon character being the last one, would expand on the existing content with Octo Expansion stuff and Splatoon 3 on the way, and also to end the pass in not necessarily the highest of notes, but still enough to create a buzz - Japan in particular would be fed by a Splatoon reveal.

But I'll also lowkey keep clinging onto the anomaly that is Undertale.

I just have a hunch that the sixth slot, being somewhat of an "extra" addition, is something negotiated last minute or decided later, or some other weird circumstances.
Or not lol.

The game started with revealing a Splatoon character, the last one being a Splatoon character would make sense. I agree with Dinoman96 though, I'd think it'll be Octolings if they could make them unique enough.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I’m fine with any Splatoon character, to me Off The Hook is just a way to circumvent the “Octoling would be a semiclone and we don’t do semiclones for DLC” discussion. Of course Octoling could be unique, but the Final Fest was a big deal too and in the spirit of looking beyond the obvious I’d say Off The Hook is a viable alternative.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Something I noticed looking back over the release dates, Heihachi's Mii costume was released with Min Min, the first character of the Pass two.

I wonder what that means in terms of negotiations.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Wait.

Doesn't the trailer show Kazuya crouch-dashing through Hadoken?

EDIT: Right here-

I'm curious now. Is he just low enough that he can avoid it or does crouch-dashing have some special properties in Tekken? Any Tekken players who can answer this?

I don't know anything about Tekken, but there's a part of me that's wondering if that specific instance is a roll replacement. Like, he doesn't have traditional rolls, but gets the weird dodge thing instead. Probably not, but it was a thought I had. In reality, I'm likely way off, based on him having crouch dashes in the first place.

 

[Mr. Robotto]

Wait.

Doesn't the trailer show Kazuya crouch-dashing through Hadoken?

EDIT: Right here-

I'm curious now. Is he just low enough that he can avoid it or does crouch-dashing have some special properties in Tekken? Any Tekken players who can answer this?

Crouch dash is basically a move that is exclusive to the Mishimas in Tekken, among other few. It's basically executed by inputting forward, resetting your stick to neutral, then inputting down then down-forward rapidly. It does have some noteworthy properties (besides ducking while covering tons of distance of course, as it can be used in rapid succession), as in this state, by performing this motion, you can cancel it and execute certain moves like the iconic Wind God Fist and the Hell Sweep in the trailer.

I'm guessing this to be the main gimmick of Kazuya. He'll undoubtedly be our most complicated character as of yet, I'm really looking forward to how Sakurai translates this feature into Smash.

 

[osby]

Off The Hook as a final duo fighter would be fan-friggin-tastic. I'm not going to place all my chips on a Splatoon rep but I do think one makes sense and would bring a ton of new content, and if we got Off The Hook instead of the avatar character it'd be a great way to twist things up.

I'm not too familiar with Splatoon. How would Off the Hook fight? Like Inklings or something else? Also, would they be like Ice Climbers or something closer to Duck Hunt?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

You gotta love how the characters designed to be the basic ground level character you get to grips with the game with in other fighters are the most complicated in Smash input-wise.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

I didn't win Burger King for FP10... but I'm gonna try it again! I'M GONNA TRY IT AGAIN!

FP11, I'm gonna place my bet.

It's the dead owl. The guy Sakurai considered before Incineroar. The guy who is relevant again thanks to Legends Arceus. He's not only "second chance theory" due to being considered before, he's also "make the roster feel less dated" material thanks to Arceus, especially if somehow they pull a Yoshi's Wooly World and have a Legends stage in Smash before the game itself comes out.

My chips are on the board.

The only other bet I could place is Waluigi if only to break one last fan rule (no assist trophy promotions) but like... yeah... Decidueye is comin, that's the guy I'm throwin my chips at.

Surely I'll win Burger King and all your money THIS time!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Ayumi Tachibana, Dixie Kong, Rhythm Heaven Rep, Sonic character, and Mach Rider are others to keep in mind if we take Second Chance Theory into account.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

So I was thinking of second chance theory and I'm not sure if this was discussed before, but I think I found a new pattern. So I have a new theory which is an extension of second chance theory and I called it "too complex for being in the base game theory" (yeah I couldn't come up with a better name). The thing I realised with fighter pass 2 is that a lot of the characters were problematic for Sakurai and the team.

-Min min: Sakurai said that he had a hard time balancing her considering her huge range.
-Steve: Sakurai said that it was a huge challenge for the developpers to change every stage so block can be placed on them
-Sephiroth: unsure about this one, but I think Sakurai wanted to make feel Sephiroth like you're playing a boss, without him being over power
-Pyra/Mythra: Sakurai said that he wanted Rex + Pyra and Mythra, but Rex design was way too complex to be there all the time and work with 8 player smash, so he had to cut him. This mean that while Pyra/Mythra themselves are not overly complex, Sakurai did try something with Rex which was too hard and just didn't work
-Kazuya: Sakurai considered a Tekken character in Smash 4 but he thought it would be too hard to implement their movement.

So my theory is that second chance theory is not just giving a second to some random character, it's giving a second chance to character that Sakurai couldn't implement in the past. My guess is this might be why fighter pass 2 is taking much longer than pass 1, he knew that those characters would take a long time to work with.

So with that in mind, as much as I doubt it, the first character that come to mind is Chorus kid. While Sakurai never talked about them, it was often speculate that the reason they might have been cut was because either the trio character was too hard to work with, or he was trying to implement some sort of rhythm mechanics which was too hard to work with too. And now that with dlc he have way more time to work with a single character and put the whole team into it, now might be the time to reuse this concept.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I didn't win Burger King for FP10... but I'm gonna try it again! I'M GONNA TRY IT AGAIN!

FP11, I'm gonna place my bet.
View attachment 319516

It's the dead owl. The guy Sakurai considered before Incineroar. The guy who is relevant again thanks to Legends Arceus. He's not only "second chance theory" due to being considered before, he's also "make the roster feel less dated" material thanks to Arceus, especially if somehow they pull a Yoshi's Wooly World and have a Legends stage in Smash before the game itself comes out.

That or another Gen 8 Pokemon in general as we got Min Min over Spring Man, Pyra & Mythra over Rex, Kazuya over Heihachi. Something to keep in mind.

Whether it's Toxtricity, Urshifu or Zacian, etc. I have a feeling they wouldn't go with another starter unless it was another Pokemon Trainer character coming with three Pokemon.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Ayumi Tachibana, Dixie Kong, Rhythm Heaven Rep, Sonic character, and Mach Rider are others to keep in mind if we take Second Chance Theory into account.

We can also cast a slightly wider net with a second Zelda if we take toon Zelda and toon Sheik into account.

 

[kirbsmash]

Kazuya over Jin or Heihachi

wasn't he the 'hero' in 1 though? Like, I don't think it's the same thing as say, min min ?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So I was thinking of second chance theory and I'm not sure if this was discussed before, but I think I found a new pattern. So I have a new theory which is an extension of second chance theory and I called it "too complex for being in the base game theory" (yeah I couldn't come up with a better name). The thing I realised with fighter pass 2 is that a lot of the characters were problematic for Sakurai and the team.

-Min min: Sakurai said that he had a hard time balancing her considering her huge range.
-Steve: Sakurai said that it was a huge challenge for the developpers to change every stage so block can be placed on them
-Sephiroth: unsure about this one, but I think Sakurai wanted to make feel Sephiroth like you're playing a boss, without him being over power
-Pyra/Mythra: Sakurai said that he wanted Rex + Pyra and Mythra, but Rex design was way too complex to be there all the time and work with 8 player smash, so he had to cut him. This mean that while Pyra/Mythra themselves are not overly complex, Sakurai did try something with Rex which was too hard and just didn't work
-Kazuya: Sakurai considered a Tekken character in Smash 4 but he thought it would be too hard to implement their movement.

So my theory is that second chance theory is not just giving a second to some random character, it's giving a second chance to character that Sakurai couldn't implement in the past. My guess is this might be why fighter pass 2 is taking much longer than pass 1, he knew that those characters would take a long time to work with.

So with that in mind, as much as I doubt it, the first character that come to mind is Chorus kid. While Sakurai never talked about them, it was often speculate that the reason they might have been cut was because either the trio character was too hard to work with, or he bwas trying to implement some sort of rhythm mechanics which was too hard to work with too. And now that with dlc he have way more time to work with a single character and put the whole team into it, now might be the time to reuse this concept.

This is how Dante wins.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

So I was thinking of second chance theory and I'm not sure if this was discussed before, but I think I found a new pattern. So I have a new theory which is an extension of second chance theory and I called it "too complex for being in the base game theory" (yeah I couldn't come up with a better name). The thing I realised with fighter pass 2 is that a lot of the characters were problematic for Sakurai and the team.

-Min min: Sakurai said that he had a hard time balancing her considering her huge range.
-Steve: Sakurai said that it was a huge challenge for the developpers to change every stage so block can be placed on them
-Sephiroth: unsure about this one, but I think Sakurai wanted to make feel Sephiroth like you're playing a boss, without him being over power
-Pyra/Mythra: Sakurai said that he wanted Rex + Pyra and Mythra, but Rex design was way too complex to be there all the time and work with 8 player smash, so he had to cut him. This mean that while Pyra/Mythra themselves are not overly complex, Sakurai did try something with Rex which was too hard and just didn't work
-Kazuya: Sakurai considered a Tekken character in Smash 4 but he thought it would be too hard to implement their movement.

So my theory is that second chance theory is not just giving a second to some random character, it's giving a second chance to character that Sakurai couldn't implement in the past. My guess is this might be why fighter pass 2 is taking much longer than pass 1, he knew that those characters would take a long time to work with.

So with that in mind, as much as I doubt it, the first character that come to mind is Chorus kid. While Sakurai never talked about them, it was often speculate that the reason they might have been cut was because either the trio character was too hard to work with, or he bwas trying to implement some sort of rhythm mechanics which was too hard to work with too. And now that with dlc he have way more time to work with a single character and put the whole team into it, now might be the time to reuse this concept.

Breath of the Wild Zelda... on a motorcycle... wielding the Ancient Slate and all its apps...

Straight up Yu-Gi-Oh 5Ds type thing haha CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES!

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Everybody gangsta til Sakurai goes back on Plusle and Minun of all characters.

 

[SKX31]

Since partial quotes are a ***** to do on mobile:

Correct me if I'm wrong, SKX31 , but isn't a good amount of Tekken centered on punish? I haven't played a lot, but from the few EVOs that I watched, that's the impression I got.

Punish game is one of the central tenets yes, but Tekken also places a lot of emphasis on movement / footsies (as in Kazuya's trailer where the mirror Kazuyas just dash back and forth like jittery madmen), and safe attacks / pokes: stuff like the One Jab is really simple but fundamental. But still, you know the punish game is a central aspect of the gameplay when Smash officially showed off Tekken's 10-hit combo. We just need wonky wall interactions and it's 100 % Tekken.

I find it ironic this was posted on the same day as the RTC thread was rating League of Legends.

Huh. I was expecting something yesterday, but it looks like TPC is still insistent on dancing to the beat of their own drum.

Regardless, I'm cautiously optimistic about this.

It's not just TPC, but Tencent also dance to the beat of their own drum where they don't really take big events like E3 into account. So it would be "in-character" for them both to do that.

So I was thinking of second chance theory and I'm not sure if this was discussed before, but I think I found a new pattern. So I have a new theory which is an extension of second chance theory and I called it "too complex for being in the base game theory" (yeah I couldn't come up with a better name). The thing I realised with fighter pass 2 is that a lot of the characters were problematic for Sakurai and the team.

-Min min: Sakurai said that he had a hard time balancing her considering her huge range.
-Steve: Sakurai said that it was a huge challenge for the developpers to change every stage so block can be placed on them
-Sephiroth: unsure about this one, but I think Sakurai wanted to make feel Sephiroth like you're playing a boss, without him being over power
-Pyra/Mythra: Sakurai said that he wanted Rex + Pyra and Mythra, but Rex design was way too complex to be there all the time and work with 8 player smash, so he had to cut him. This mean that while Pyra/Mythra themselves are not overly complex, Sakurai did try something with Rex which was too hard and just didn't work
-Kazuya: Sakurai considered a Tekken character in Smash 4 but he thought it would be too hard to implement their movement.

So my theory is that second chance theory is not just giving a second to some random character, it's giving a second chance to character that Sakurai couldn't implement in the past. My guess is this might be why fighter pass 2 is taking much longer than pass 1, he knew that those characters would take a long time to work with.

So with that in mind, as much as I doubt it, the first character that come to mind is Chorus kid. While Sakurai never talked about them, it was often speculate that the reason they might have been cut was because either the trio character was too hard to work with, or he bwas trying to implement some sort of rhythm mechanics which was too hard to work with too. And now that with dlc he have way more time to work with a single character and put the whole team into it, now might be the time to reuse this concept.

That or another Gen 8 Pokemon in general as we got Min Min over Spring Man, Pyra & Mythra over Rex, Kazuya over Heihachi. Something to keep in mind.

Whether it's Toxtricity, Urshifu or Zacian, etc. I have a feeling they wouldn't go with another starter unless it was another Pokemon Trainer character coming with three Pokemon.

While I kinda doubt Second Chance because it has a pretty damn vague definition, Sakurai might have briefly considered characters in the past that he hasn't mentioned openly and a lot of characters could fit it I don't think we should forget characters like Amaterasu (whose gameplay would presumably be rather complex when translated into Smash) or someone like Layton in this context.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

See tho

I’m still taking Figure Theory into account to an extent

If CP11 is the last fighter they HAVE to have a figurine

if the bonus fighter rumor is real and CP11 doesn’t have a figurine then the bonus has to

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

See tho

I’m still taking Figure Theory into account to an extent

If CP11 is the last fighter they HAVE to have a figurine

Bottom text

 

[Rie Sonomura]

View attachment 319518
Bottom text

…yes? Iirc in Pythra’s presentation Sakurai said he can’t show his entire figure collection cause he kept the figurines of the last fighters in his drawer

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

…yes? Iirc in Pythra’s presentation Sakurai said he can’t show his entire figure collection cause he kept the figurines of the last fighters in his drawer

To be sure (because I'm NOT sure) there's no super duper collector's edition "buy it now or Barney gets it" type Kazuya figure anywhere?

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

We can also cast a slightly wider net with a second Zelda if we take toon Zelda and toon Sheik into account.

BotW Zelda is back on the scene. Let's give her the motorcycle.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

To be sure (because I'm NOT sure) there's no super duper collector's edition "buy it now or Barney gets it" type Kazuya figure anywhere?

I mean just any figurine will do? NOT counting Amiibo, I assume

it’s for reference he claims