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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Freduardo

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While having your game on the console helps, I don't think this would really change anything to be honest.

I prefer Yuri over Lloyd, but if you say that others could say that Lloyd is the usual Smash request, not Yuri, and they're right.



I don't get the last party very well. While I agree that Velvet is kinda overlooked, in the context of Smash I'd say Velvet is the "niche" one, compared to Yuri and specially Lloyd. Not the other way around.
As for uniqueness, she would be more visually unique when it comes to attacks animations, sure, but that doesn't mean Yuri, Lloyd or other Tales characters with swords couldn't be unique as well.

I mean... the Tales rep would be unique by default, assuming they would bring their combos and their ability to chain specials.
I think if we get a Tales protagonist, it's going the Dragon Quest route and we'll get someone with a sword and shield (or sword and parry sword in Lloyd's version) that has demon fang, tiger blade, and two other iconic tales protagonist Artes.

Cless, Stahn, Lloyd, and Flynn would be my choices. Yes Flynn isn't a main Tales protagonist... but his entire point is that he fights just like one.

But everyone says I'm wrong and this won't work for Tales characters. So I'm probably wrong.
 

Guynamednelson

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cashregister9

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F to Toys for Bob, they've been sent to the cod mines. Sounds like we're not getting any new Crash or Spyro games for a while.



At the risk of defending activision here. The way it was worded sounds like it was just for the current season of Warzone, and due to a new COD probably coming out this year the main dev team is probably pre occupied with that so they probably just put TFB on there because they weren't doing anything at this current point in time.

The layoffs only seem to be freelance artists but I have seen some contradictions. The fact that anyone is being laid off is ****ty but I digress.

Saying Crash is dead is a bit of an overreaction. They've been playing Hot Potato with those companies for a while, Giving crash to Vicarious Visions, Beenox and King.

But seriously though. **** Activision.
 

SharkLord

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I think if we get a Tales protagonist, it's going the Dragon Quest route and we'll get someone with a sword and shield (or sword and parry sword in Lloyd's version) that has demon fang, tiger blade, and two other iconic tales protagonist Artes.

Cless, Stahn, Lloyd, and Flynn would be my choices. Yes Flynn isn't a main Tales protagonist... but his entire point is that he fights just like one.

But everyone says I'm wrong and this won't work for Tales characters. So I'm probably wrong.
Yeah, that wouldn't really work. Trying to shoehorn four different characters into a single slot is gonna get really awkward, not to mention that A: Lloyd uses his second sword like a sword and not a shield, and B: He has an obvious Final Smash that only works with his Material Blades, and nobody else has those.
 

chocolatejr9

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At the risk of defending activision here. The way it was worded sounds like it was just for the current season of Warzone, and due to a new COD probably coming out this year the main dev team is probably pre occupied with that so they probably just put TFB on there because they weren't doing anything at this current point in time.

The layoffs only seem to be freelance artists but I have seen some contradictions. The fact that anyone is being laid off is ****ty but I digress.

Saying Crash is dead is a bit of an overreaction. They've been playing Hot Potato with those companies for a while, Giving crash to Vicarious Visions, Beenox and King.

But seriously though. **** Activision.
Yeah, about that...


Moral of the story: don't give Activision the benefit of the doubt.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Even with how well Crash was doing with its revival, Activision still decided to kill it off after the 5 year plan. I'm really starting to think we won't get Crash in Smash, if they're willing to do that to Toys For Bob. **** Activision.
 

Freduardo

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Yeah, that wouldn't really work. Trying to shoehorn four different characters into a single slot is gonna get really awkward, not to mention that A: Lloyd uses his second sword like a sword and not a shield, and B: He has an obvious Final Smash that only works with his Material Blades, and nobody else has those.

And that applies if you're viewing the shield guys as a costume for Lloyd.

If you're viewing Lloyd as a costume for Cless. His under-hand parry blade that he holds under-hand like a parry blade... is a blade used for parrying. Like a shield. Given his mii-swordfighter outfit didn't use its second blade for diddly, this is already how Lloyd fights in Smash.

And there's nothing Cless can do that Lloyd really can't.

And Cless came first.
 
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cashregister9

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Yeah, about that...


Moral of the story: don't give Activision the benefit of the doubt.
This isn't really definitive.

but The fact that anyone has to be laid off is ****ty and the fact that this many studios have to be put onto call of duty because of Activision's demand for yearly Cod releases is to put it lightly Dumb as hell.
 
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Wunderwaft

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At the risk of defending activision here. The way it was worded sounds like it was just for the current season of Warzone, and due to a new COD probably coming out this year the main dev team is probably pre occupied with that so they probably just put TFB on there because they weren't doing anything at this current point in time.

The layoffs only seem to be freelance artists but I have seen some contradictions. The fact that anyone is being laid off is ****ty but I digress.

Saying Crash is dead is a bit of an overreaction. They've been playing Hot Potato with those companies for a while, Giving crash to Vicarious Visions, Beenox and King.

But seriously though. **** Activision.
I hope so, but from the way that one former dev who worked on Toys for Bob worded it this might be permanent. I wouldn't put it past Activision to do something like this. Activision already did this to Vicarious Visions which is the studio behind Tony Hawk, now Vicarious has been absorbed by Blizzard and are a support studio helping develop Blizzard games like Diablo.

Hell, even outside of Activision other big companies do this numerous times. EA is notorious for this practice like that time they killed Westwood studios and liquidated the team to various divisions. Even Sony did this recently with Bend studio by turning the studio into a Naughty Dog support studio.

It's a terrible practice and I don't have much hope on this being a temporary situation for Toys for Bob.
 
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Oracle Link

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How about this instead?
Why do you want masked man first porky appears in two games second ghe is more unique and third i
dont think there is a way of making claus (he is the masked man) work at least Skullkid isnt Fully Brainwashed all the time and whenever he is playable he was only Half controlled!
 

cashregister9

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Even with how well Crash was doing with its revival, Activision still decided to kill it off after the 5 year plan. I'm really starting to think we won't get Crash in Smash, if they're willing to do that to Toys For Bob. **** Activision.
The Second Fighter's pass was decided 2 years ago and Activision has been playing hot potato with the IP for a few years giving it to Vicarious Visions, Beenox, Toys For Bob and King within the last couple years. I'm not that worried about Crash.
 

StarBot

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I'm going to bring some needed balance and say

  1. This could be temporary, as what cashregister9 cashregister9 said above me, none of this fully definitive. Toys For Bob can easily be contracted to work on this one COD game, and when that **** is down, they will going back to making actually good and creative-driven games again. You have to remember that pandemic messed up a lot of stuff that Activision was cooking up, and they probably need all the help they can get for there next big game
  2. Wasn't Crash 4 a flop? That also could be a reason why Activation move everyone to a support rule
  3. Beenox is still (apparently) working a Spyro 4 game, and that Crash Multiplayer game is up in the air, could have been canceled maybe
  4. I don't think this speaks doom for Crash for Smash, as much I don't give a rats bum about the guy, Smash picks their characters a loooooong time before this kind of stuff happens, (though I will admit that if Activation was quick to cancel 3 Crash products in a row, (The cartoon, the multiplayer game, and now 2 of the studios that helped bring him to life, this doesn't speak highly on them working well with 3rd parties. not sure how they would handle working with Sora LTD. then))
Either way, my heart and sympathy for the guys at Toys for Bob, **** unesasary layoffs
 

SharkLord

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And that applies if you're viewing the shield guys as a costume for Lloyd.

If you're viewing Lloyd as a costume for Cless. His under-hand parry blade that he holds under-hand like a parry blade... is a blade used for parrying. Like a shield. Given his mii-swordfighter outfit didn't use its second blade for diddly, this is already how Lloyd fights in Smash.

And there's nothing Cless can do that Lloyd really can't.

And Cless came first.
This is just trying to force Lloyd into Cress' slot for the sake of having more. Lloyd slashes and stabs with his swords. He can't slash and stab with a shield. If Cress gets added, they would shove Lloyd into his slots. Sure, Lloyd can do everything Cress can, but there's stuff he can do that Cress can't. It's just arbitrarily limiting him for the sake of saying "We have more!"

Being the first game's protagonist isn't what's important; What's important is being the most well-known protagonist of the series. That's why Lloyd and Yuri are the frontrunners of speculation, not Cress. We got Cloud over any of the FF1 classes, Joker over any earlier Persona protagonist, and out of all the Heroes we got, none of them were from DQ1. The only times this has actually happened with a JRPG in Smash is with Marth and Shulk, and for the latter there weren't any other options in the first place.

This is just "Composite ARMS rep" all over again. It wouldn't work out, and they wouldn't cram a bunch of different characters into a single slot like that.
 

Technomage

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Being the first game's protagonist isn't what's important; What's important is being the most well-known protagonist of the series. That's why Lloyd and Yuri are the frontrunners of speculation, not Cress. We got Cloud over any of the FF1 classes, Joker over any earlier Persona protagonist, and out of all the Heroes we got, none of them were from DQ1.
There's also:

Ocarina, Twilight, Wild, Young, and Toon Link instead of NES Link
Ness and Lucas instead of Ninten

On the other hand, we got Red as our first human and main character rep from Pokemon, Olimar as the main costume with Alph as merely an alternate one, and Simon before Richter. Also, Splatoon's rep is Agent 3 and not Agent 4.

I hope we can atleast all agree that we dont want a Cod rep!
Eh, I wouldn't mind a CoD rep entering the roster; at least it'd be unique, assuming we don't get any other FPS characters.
 

PeridotGX

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Why do you want masked man first porky appears in two games second ghe is more unique and third i
dont think there is a way of making claus (he is the masked man) work at least Skullkid isnt Fully Brainwashed all the time and whenever he is playable he was only Half controlled!
Because I like Masked Man in the Brawl mod, and would like to see him in a canon Smash.
 

SharkLord

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There's also:

Ocarina, Twilight, Wild, Young, and Toon Link instead of NES Link
Ness and Lucas instead of Ninten

On the other hand, we got Red as our first human and main character rep from Pokemon, Olimar as the main costume with Alph as merely an alternate one, and Simon before Richter. Also, Splatoon's rep is Agent 3 and not Agent 4.
Yeah, but they were also the (Or in Simon's case, one of the) most prominent protagonists in their series. Red represented the three most iconic starters, and Simon was the defining Belmont. There's also the fact that when the game entered development, there wasn't any Splatoon 2 to draw from, and Pikmin 3 wasn't out during the time of Brawl, so Agent 3 and Alph were pretty much the only options.
 
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Freduardo

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This is just trying to force Lloyd into Cress' slot for the sake of having more. Lloyd slashes and stabs with his swords. He can't slash and stab with a shield. If Cress gets added, they would shove Lloyd into his slots. Sure, Lloyd can do everything Cress can, but there's stuff he can do that Cress can't. It's just arbitrarily limiting him for the sake of saying "We have more!"

Being the first game's protagonist isn't what's important; What's important is being the most well-known protagonist of the series. That's why Lloyd and Yuri are the frontrunners of speculation, not Cress. We got Cloud over any of the FF1 classes, Joker over any earlier Persona protagonist, and out of all the Heroes we got, none of them were from DQ1. The only times this has actually happened with a JRPG in Smash is with Marth and Shulk, and for the latter there weren't any other options in the first place.

This is just "Composite ARMS rep" all over again. It wouldn't work out, and they wouldn't cram a bunch of different characters into a single slot like that.

It's Cless' spot because the other two fit better in that than Lloyd and is the the typical Tales protagonist all the others were based off of.

Lloyd's already been fit into the Mii Swordfighter spot. Cless is a lot closer.
 

SKX31

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Yeah, about that...

Moral of the story: don't give Activision the benefit of the doubt.
We'll have to see if it's permanent or whatever - but the bigger problem is...

...Holy **** did Activision really screw the pooch when it came to CoD's filesize. Yes, Infinity Ward developed it, a lot of that is HD or even 4K textures, but a lot of that is also the number of skins, decals etc. (which number in the thousands if not more). Sure, one can choose to download parts of the game (Warzone or MW) and sure, they did reduce the filesize. But jeez there's a major problem within A-B's corporate structure when the higher ups thought that releasing a 250 GB game without that option initially was acceptable (throwback to this tweet and article by the Verge. Original article here.). But whatever, guess it's all worth it when Warzone has tens of millions of players, even if it means that multiple studios have to work on what is one series (or even a single game if one combines CoD + Warzone).

... **** Activision's business practices.

Eh, I wouldn't mind a CoD rep entering the roster; at least it'd be unique, assuming we don't get any other FPS characters.
While it may be a bit difficult to translate CoD's trademark Sprint into Smash, I do think it's fully possible to translate its signature form of quick gunplay and emphasis on being ready no matter the situation into Smash. While FPSes as a whole do have that to a large extent (even more tactical FPSes like CS GO or non-standard shooters like Splatoon have that), CoD emphasises that further due to its more arcade-y multiplayer, the killstreak rewards being potent but at the same time not something you'd want to waste, and map structures usually encouraging frantic fighting.

While I haven't played much CoD, it's definetely different from a lot of other shooters (one can argue even Halo's multiplayer, which itself has stuff like the Energy Blades insta-killing if one backstabs someone with it).

Overall, I wouldn't mind a CoD character either. That could be really interesting to see, and honestly, that series does have enough moveset potential that it could probably skip the real guns if needed.
 
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Guynamednelson

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This isn't really definitive.

but The fact that anyone has to be laid off is ****ty and the fact that this many studios have to be put onto call of duty because of Activision's demand for yearly Cod releases is to put it lightly Dumb as hell.
You can tell just how much manpower COD needed as early as 2013, where it had to start alternating between three dev teams every year rather than just Infinity Ward and Treyarch.
 

SharkLord

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It's Cless' spot because the other two fit better in that than Lloyd and is the the typical Tales protagonist all the others were based off of.

Lloyd's already been fit into the Mii Swordfighter spot. Cless is a lot closer.
Fighters aren't chosen based on arbitrarily shoving in a bunch of different characters. They're chosen based on them being the most well-known characters of the series. If Cress was chosen, he'd be chosen on his own merits, without forcing a Hero situation. Even if they have similar skills, they're still different characters who would be an Echo at best, and we all know we're not getting any Echoes in the pass,

Miis aren't meant to be 100% accurate. They're quick costumes to try and extend the reach beyond the fighters. Fighters have much more work and budget put into them, and they're meant to use the fighter's own abilities rather than quickly slapping their clothes onto one of three generic movesets. It's not the same as the Miis.

Really, the whole thing about alts is just "You were so busy thinking of if you could that you didn't stop and think about if you should."
 

Oracle Link

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Im still mad that nintendo doesnt put retro Collections on Switch everything Selled so good on switch yet they dont use this chance to give some Failed games a Second chance i mean we have:
All the Capcom zeldas
A lot of Kirby games (especialy Kirby SSU, Kirbys Rtdl, Triple deluxe and planet r)
Kid icarus Uprising
F zero Gx ( i mean they always say how its their perfect game so why dont you port it then)
Starfox 3d
Mother frigin 3
 

Jocario Zero

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If we get a tales rep i hope it's just one single character and they don't try to force another character in as a costume. Lloyd as a costume for someone like Cress wouldn't work even if they can use the same special moves. Lloyds entire fighting style with his swords is different from Cress.

And don't even get me started on people who think that Lloyd and Yuri could be echos of each other...
 
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Technomage

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Hey, since we haven't been getting any new info on DLC in a while, I gotta ask: Has anybody datamined anything noteworthy from the game after Pythra's release?
 

SharkLord

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If we get a tales rep i hope it's just one single character and they don't try to force another character in as a costume. Lloyd as a costume for someone like Cress wouldn't work just because they can use the same special moves. Lloyds entire fighting style with his swords is different from Cress.

And don't even get me started on people who think that Lloyd and Yuri could be echos of each other...
Funnily enough, we actually do have a sorta combo of Lloyd and Yuri. Pit has the former's dual wielding, and the latter's sword-spinning.

In other words, they'll be alts of Dark Classic Pit :4pacman:
 

Gnateb

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Hey, since we haven't been getting any new info on DLC in a while, I gotta ask: Has anybody datamined anything noteworthy from the game after Pythra's release?
Not that I know of. Basically just the codenames of Pyra and Mythra, which is only mildly interesting.
 

Freduardo

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Fighters aren't chosen based on arbitrarily shoving in a bunch of different characters. They're chosen based on them being the most well-known characters of the series. If Cress was chosen, he'd be chosen on his own merits, without forcing a Hero situation. Even if they have similar skills, they're still different characters who would be an Echo at best, and we all know we're not getting any Echoes in the pass,

Miis aren't meant to be 100% accurate. They're quick costumes to try and extend the reach beyond the fighters. Fighters have much more work and budget put into them, and they're meant to use the fighter's own abilities rather than quickly slapping their clothes onto one of three generic movesets. It's not the same as the Miis.

Really, the whole thing about alts is just "You were so busy thinking of if you could that you didn't stop and think about if you should."
In my opinion, when you can that easily, and with a game with Tales' history, it makes a lot of sense to go the dragon quest treatment for another long running rpg franchise with protagonists that all use the same B moves.

If Lloyd didn't share the majority of his B moves with every other Tales protagonist, I'd say the differences are so stark they must be noted.

But he does. They all do. Those aren't Lloyd's artes. They're generic Tales protagonist artes. Most of them have even looked like the same type of attack since the snes.

Yuri, I would completely agree doesn't work for this. He doesn't use the same artes.
 
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Gengar84

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Tales is a good example of why I wish we weren’t limited to just main protagonists. There are so many great characters but the majority of my favorites aren’t the main protagonist of their game. I love Velvet and Yuri but it falls off pretty hard for me after that. It would be awesome if we could get someone like Zaveid, Rita, Alvin, or Sheena but they basically have no chance due to being secondary characters.
 
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N3ON

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For those that might be chronologically challenged, FP2 was assembled two years ago, not currently right now. Two years ago Activision was, presumably, optimistic about Crash.

Even if they weren’t, it’s Activision. If the money is there, they’ll probably play ball. When PSASBR tried for Crash during his long sleep, it wasn’t Activision’s apathy that prevented his inclusion, it’s that they wanted an arm and a leg to put him in. If Nintendo and Activision fail to reach an agreement, if one was ever even on the table, it seems pretty unlikely Activision would counteroffer with some CoD guy, and even more unlikely that Nintendo would accept.

So this news sucks, but doesn’t mean anything for Crash’s chances. I mean, maybe it makes him less likely for next time, because he’s seemingly going back in the deep freeze, but frankly, if that’s the case, people aren’t going to be talking about him nearly as much by the time of Smash 6. :/

So, all in all, I guess the takeaway is... **** Activision.

F to Toys for Bob, they've been sent to the cod mines. Sounds like we're not getting any new Crash or Spyro games for a while.



Missed opportunity to have given Sledgehammer a sledgehammer. :p
 

Freduardo

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Tales is a good example of why I wish we weren’t limited to just main protagonists. There are so many great characters but the majority of my favorites aren’t the main protagonist of their game. I love Velvet and Yuri but it falls off pretty hard for me after that. It would be awesome if we could get someone like Zaveed, Rita, Alvin, or Sheena but they basically have no chance due to being secondary characters.

Yeah, this I have to completely agree with. Repede, Regal, Raine, Presea, Guy, Tear, Rita, Genos would be ones I'd probably prefer over their respective protagonists.

Similar to the Fire Emblem conundrum. There are a lot of non-lord (and even villain) characters I'd love to see. But Smash is for the A-list out of franchises, as much fun as the B and C's would be.

And yes, that means Piranha plant is apparently A List.
 

cashregister9

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Tales is a good example of why I wish we weren’t limited to just main protagonists. There are so many great characters but the majority of my favorites aren’t the main protagonist of their game. I love Velvet and Yuri but it falls off pretty hard for me after that. It would be awesome if we could get someone like Zaveed, Rita, Alvin, or Sheena but they basically have no chance due to being secondary characters.
Thats the main reason a Tale of character doesn't interest me that much, the side characters are more interesting a lot of the times.

Like I would much prefer Kratos over Lloyd if we got a Symphonia character.

 

Freduardo

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Terra, Cloud, Squall, and Lighting should have been alts of each other. They can all probably cast one spell in common, so a Hero situation is logical.
The difference of that false equivalency is if you gave me Lloyd's B moves for Smash, you'd give me demon fang, tiger blade, as definites. Maybe you disgree about which artes B down and B forward would be, but they would still 99% be the same ones as other Tales protagonists.

And his main method of combat would be fight with a sword. Of a similar size to all other Tales protagonists.

And his body type and build is.... the exact same as all the other Tales Protagonists (except Yuri, who uses a different set and that game specifically has Flynn for the typical Tales protagonist set. Tales knows there's a typical Tales protagonist set. They literally made a character separate from a protagonist as the exception to the rule to show it.)
 

SKX31

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Funnily enough, we actually do have a sorta combo of Lloyd and Yuri. Pit has the former's dual wielding, and the latter's sword-spinning.

In other words, they'll be alts of Dark Classic Pit :4pacman:
Damnit, now I can't help but to think of "HAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAH!" The bane of so many casual Brawl players.

Terra, Cloud, Squall, and Lighting should have been alts of each other. They can all probably cast one spell in common, so a Hero situation is logical.
One of the first things I could think of:



Source.

This is an amazing image and I approve.
 
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SharkLord

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In my opinion, when you can that easily, and with a game with Tales' history, it makes a lot of sense to go the dragon quest treatment for another long running rpg franchise with protagonists that all use the same B moves.
Again: You focus too much of if you could, and not enough on if you should.

Lloyd is from the game's real breakout hit, was the best-selling game in the series and still is (Though Vesperia's catching up fast), and is by far the most consistent Smash request. Yuri is consistently a high-ranker in the polls (Though if the recent Tales of Festival is any indication, Lloyd is also catching up), and gets used in crossovers a lot. Logic dictates that these two would be our best bets, since they have a lot of merits to them and are very recognizable in the context of the franchise.

Now, Cress does have a couple merits, like being the forefather of most other Tales protagonists... But he wouldn't be chosen just to have more names available on the select screen. That's not how Smash works. The Heroes were practically different versions of the same character, but the Tales characters are all different characters with different personalities, and forcing them into the same slot is gonna cause some issues.
The difference of that false equivalency is if you gave me Lloyd's B moves for Smash, you'd give me demon fang, tiger blade, as definites. Maybe you disgree about which artes B down and B forward would be, but they would still 99% be the same ones as other Tales protagonists.

And his main method of combat would be fight with a sword. Of a similar size to all other Tales protagonists.

And his body type and build is.... the exact same as all the other Tales Protagonists (except Yuri, who uses a different set and that game specifically has Flynn for the typical Tales protagonist set. Tales knows there's a typical Tales protagonist set. They literally made a character separate from a protagonist as the exception to the rule to show it.)
Ah, I see. Just like how Spring Man has Ribbon Girl, Min Min, and Ninjara as alts, because they have a similar body type, stretchy arms, and can equip each other's ARMS. Oh wait.

They're not going to force in a bunch of different alts just to represent the archetype. Just one is enough. They don't need any alts, and if packs like Joker's and Sephiroth's are any indication, they'd probably just focus on a single game anyways.
 
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