Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Shroob]

Touhou is popular in Japan, but here's the thing — how many other series can claim the same? Better yet, how many series can claim that they're popular in Japan AND can stay afloat overseas? Let's take it step further; how many series are not only popular in Japan, but also popular in NA, EU, and most other parts of the world? I feel like this is where Reimu and Touhou fall flat. Yeah, there's a few characters like Hero who have lopsided support, but it seems like a majority of the third-parties we currently have are fairly popular in all regions.

Just how recognizable Reimu and Touhou are outside of Japan is up for debate, but to be completely honest, I'd say just about every third-party franchise on the roster dropkicks Touhou when put side-by-side. It just can't compete, and when you have seemingly limitless choices, I struggle to see why Nintendo would double down on Touhou when they could get the rights to a safer, more iconic character.

I mean, let's also play fair here, Touhou's an Indie ip, if you're going to put it up against the likes of stuff like Final Fantasy and Street Fighter, then yeah, no **** it's gonna lose.

And now that we have that established, how many games do you know have bi-yearly festivals dedicated to them and them alone? Because twice a year, Touhou holds two major fan conventions in Japan that draws in thousands upon thousands by the droves. Even Fate, arguably one of Japan's biggest IPs currently, and by far one of Sony's most profitable, can't claim that title yet.


Do I think Touhou will get in Smash? Oh hell no, but let's not try to pretend it's not big either, like, real big. Hell, I'll go ahead and flat out spit a hot take and say it's bigger than a lot of the lesser IPs already in Smash. It's definitely bigger than Mother or F-Zero at this point, not that that's hard to be, exactly, and hell, Mother and Touhou have a ton of mutual fans, it's partially how Undertale came to be, Toby Fox is a huge Touhou nut. Do I think Touhou will get in Smash? Oh hell no, but at the same time, Touhou's flat out bigger than a lot of the smaller IPs in Smash, especially the ones who just don't receive games anymore for one reason or another.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I don't think we're actually getting Touhou, no, but at the same time, the series is huge in its home country, like, real big. I see it brought up all the time in our neck of the woods but on the Japanese side of the equation. Touhou is actually decently talked about in regards to Smash in Japan as far as I can see, and not as a joke choice either, there's quite a bit of Reimu support across the pond.


Now granted, I'm going off google translate sure, but when you see "Who do you want" posts, and people put Reimu on there, well, I dunno.


Touhou's niche as hell to most of the world, but it's enormous in Japan. Same could be said of Fate, really. Fate started as just some visual novel, now it's arguably one of Sony's most profitable IPs.

I’d say Fate has the advantage of being actively localized in the West though. I can go download an English version of Grand Order right now. There’s also been several popular (& amazing) anime in the past decade too. I saw Heaven’s Feel Pt. 2 in theaters & it was packed.... it Uh, was a bit awkward in some scenes.

I’m actually not sure but are there official localizations of the original VNs? I’ve never played one & I’m a fan of the series because of the anime tbh lol

Steve might count, but he's owned by Microsoft now, so he's not really Indie.

My gut says that the first true Indie Fighter will be Shovel Knight.

I’d say it’d be an Undertale rep or Quote. Even though I’d love to see Shovel Knight.

Undertale is probably the most popular single player indie game of all-time. Five years later & it still has a large fanbase, as well as being relevant in gaming culture. Undertale is also pretty big in Japan. It’s also proven itself in the Smash fanbase, as the Sans costume was arguably one of this game’s biggest reveals. Nintendo also has a clear interest in the series & Toby Fox’s career with how much they’ve worked with him recently.

Cave Story is one of the most popular & beloved Indie games of all-time. You can trace the indie game boom back to Cave Story. It also has the benefit of being a Japanese game, which would fit with Sakurai wanting to represent Japanese gaming.

 

[Shroob]

I’d say Fate has the advantage of being actively localized in the West though. I can go download an English version of Grand Order right now. There’s also been several popular (& amazing) anime in the past decade too. I saw Heaven’s Feel Pt. 2 in theaters & it was packed.... it Uh, was a bit awkward in some scenes.

I’m actually not sure but are there official localizations of the original VNs? I’ve never played one & I’m a fan of the series because of the anime tbh lol

And there will never be official translations of the original novels, to be frank. Between the series moving away from its roots, and content it really doesn't want you to remember, the original novels are almost certainly never going to be officially translated.

 

[SpectreJordan]

And there will never be official translations of the original novels, to be frank. Between the series moving away from its roots, and content it really doesn't want you to remember, the original novels are almost certainly never going to be officially translated.

Ah that’s right. Well, atleast the Unlimited Blade Works show & Heaven’s Feel movies are bangers.

 

[DevaAshera]

You say that like Japan is otherwise hurting for franchises with popularity that have actually been localized globally. If you're invoking Sakurai statements, the one he made about regional exclusivity might be pertinent here.

I think they would dip harder into western franchises before going with series that barely exist in certain regions. Above Japan bias, that is what Smash avoids.

While true, I also wouldn't say its exactly hurting its chances that much. I'm not particularly expecting it either, but it is still popular..though if we were going to pit it against something like, say, Fate, which is similarly massively popular (and likely easy to license) but also has a growing Western fanbase, that would win..I'm just saying its not exactly completely out of the running either.
Still, we know that it is Nintendo that chose the DLC this time, which Sakurai just saying if he could do it (and possibly having a bit of say in wanting to do it instead of something else), so its hard to say.

Yeah, that's what Touhou fans keep saying. But I think they're the ones overestimating it.

Fair enough, though I'm not a fan personally, just an observer..but for being an Indie series, it does get a massive amount of merch & fan content and all that for sure.

And there will never be official translations of the original novels, to be frank. Between the series moving away from its roots, and content it really doesn't want you to remember, the original novels are almost certainly never going to be officially translated.

They already fixed the Ero stuff issue with Fate/stay night Realta Nua, which is the same story without any of the more sexual content intact..that said, they didn't exactly shy away from it when they decided to make the Heaven's Feel movies either..so who's to say if they really care about that stuff.
That said, when they brought the Visual Novels to PlayStation 2 with the aforementioned game, they replaced those scenes and later released that version on PC and PS Vita, so I'm pretty sure its their primary version of it now.

The issue is honestly more-so how massive and wordy the Visual Novel is..it'd take forever to localize the whole thing..and its hardly needed with the easier to localize anime entries and fans having already translated the original visual novel anyway.

 

[N3ON]

I mean, again, I'm not saying it's gonna be in Smash, I'm just saying it's nowhere near as underground as people here seem to think.

Hell, we even have a Touhou emote on this site from since like, Smash 4 days, meaning that some staff member who was allowed emote access to infect this site with Touhou. Theoretically, by 6 degrees from Kevin Bacon logic, Touhou and Smash have already crossed over.


Touhou's western fanbase has been extremely strong and dedicated for a long, long time, if people don't know of it, well I mean, I don't blame 'em, I wouldn't have known about it unless I had experienced my first "Touhou Hijack lolz" back on like, 2008 4chan, but doing a basic search can see the western fanbase isn't like, "There are dozens of us, dozens!" level of size.


Again, I'm not saying it's gonna be in Smash, but I am saying that this isn't something that just sprung up overnight and only overnight, it's always been there since the mid 2000's, and only gotten bigger since, it's just not something that you're going to find unless you somehow stumble into it, or go looking yourself for it.

Yeah, Touhou has a cult following in the west. Those usually congregate on the internet. But unlike... any truly prevalent series, I'd suggest that in the venn diagram of online western Touhou fans and total western Touhou fans... well it's basically a circle, isn't it?

It's hard for me to reconcile how big I'm told it is, with the evidence I'm given as proof. Usually a series being big is self-evident from just being attuned to the industry. I'm not saying the Touhou fanbase is like twenty guys sitting in a chatroom, but your final sentence, "it's just not something that you're going to find unless you somehow stumble into it, or go looking yourself for it" sounds exactly like describing something that is underground.

I would reason that the Touhou audience seems more sizeable than it is because it has what other fanbases have; an online component. A passionate one, at that. So in that regard it seems equal. But the thing is, it's the silent majority, the general fan that constitutes the bulk of the audience in successful series. There really isn't one for Touhou in the west. And none of the evidence I've been given, like memes and emotes and 4chan... really indicate otherwise. That evidence is... kind of trivial in proving anything more than a fanbase exists.

But that does bring me to the most crucial point though, which is... a game series completely unlocalized (bar a few spin-offs) doesn't really stand much of a chance. Most people understand that Smash doesn't go for that kind of stuff. We can't even get first-parties like that.

And Ryu's already in Smash. By six degrees, Smash has crossed over with basically everything. ;p
Though haven't Reimu and Kirby both been in that Taiko no Tatsujin game?

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, Touhou has a cult following in the west. Those usually congregate on the internet. But unlike... any truly prevalent series, I'd suggest that in the venn diagram of online western Touhou fans and total western Touhou fans... well it's basically a circle, isn't it?

It's hard for me to reconcile how big I'm told it is, with the evidence I'm given as proof. Usually a series being big is self-evident from just being attuned to the industry. I'm not saying the Touhou fanbase is like twenty guys sitting in a chatroom, but your final sentence, "it's just not something that you're going to find unless you somehow stumble into it, or go looking yourself for it" sounds exactly like describing something that is underground.

I would reason that the Touhou audience seems more sizeable than it is because it has what other fanbases have; an online component. A passionate one, at that. So in that regard it seems equal. But the thing is, it's the silent majority, the general fan that constitutes the bulk of the audience in successful series. There really isn't one for Touhou in the west. And none of the evidence I've been given, like memes and emotes and 4chan... really indicate otherwise. That evidence is... kind of trivial in proving anything more than a fanbase exists.

But that does bring me to the most crucial point though, which is... a game series completely unlocalized (bar a few spin-offs) doesn't really stand much of a chance. Most people understand that Smash doesn't go for that kind of stuff. We can't even get first-parties like that.

And Ryu's already in Smash. By six degrees, Smash has crossed over with basically everything. ;p
Though haven't Reimu and Kirby both been in that Taiko no Tatsujin game?

If it's been in it, that wouldn't surprise me. That drum game crosses over with everything under the sun, it's hype ****.

Spoiler

It has, and that's pretty neat. Ironically, it's also crossed over with Undertale, a game which has heavy Touhou inspiration.


Honestly, I said it prior but I'll say it again, Touhou's western fanbase is a lot like Earthbound's in general, to the point that the two fanbases have huge crossovers between the two, to the point that you get Undertale from the unholy fusion of them. Granted, I'm also bold enough to say that, at this point, Touhou's bigger than Earthbound and F-Zero as well, if only because, while it gets new games, those games are done(And, if ARMs ends up shelved, it wouldn't surprise me in that regards either).

 

[N3ON]

If it's been in it, that wouldn't surprise me. That drum game crosses over with everything under the sun, it's hype ****.

Spoiler

It has, and that's pretty neat. Ironically, it's also crossed over with Undertale, a game which has heavy Touhou inspiration.


Honestly, I said it prior but I'll say it again, Touhou's western fanbase is a lot like Earthbound's in general, to the point that the two fanbases have huge crossovers between the two, to the point that you get Undertale from the unholy fusion of them. Granted, I'm also bold enough to say that, at this point, Touhou's bigger than Earthbound and F-Zero as well, if only because, while it gets new games, those games are done(And, if ARMs ends up shelved, it wouldn't surprise me in that regards either).

But Earthbound wouldn't get onto the roster either if it weren't first-party...

 

[Shroob]

But Earthbound wouldn't get onto the roster either if it weren't first-party...

Regardless, the series is still bigger than a lot of the dormant smaller series in Smash, and if ARMs stagnates, which honestly doesn't even seem unlikely, then it's already lost that fight.


But I digress, I don't think it's getting in, I simply like playing devil's advocate. It's a series I like sure, but one I have no real faith to actually get in Smash.

 

[N3ON]

Regardless, the series is still bigger than a lot of the dormant smaller series in Smash

In terms of active online fanbase yeah that's true. Though those aren't the series against whom it's vying for inclusion.

and if ARMs stagnates, which honestly doesn't even seem unlikely, then it's already lost that fight.

I mean I don't think Nintendo is going to jettison a series that can debut to the sales ARMS did. Whether it will always remain part of Nintendo's stable is to be seen... but I really can't imagine we've seen the last of it.

But I digress, I don't think it's getting in, I simply like playing devil's advocate. It's a series I like sure, but one I have no real faith to actually get in Smash.

Fair enough.

 

[jadetheseer]

Alright, here’s my whole two cents on the whole Reimu issue: is she a character I could see getting picked for Smash? A very slim chance but yes...a very slim chance that only exists if it was Sakurai picking the characters. And he’s not because (as far as I know, somebody correct me if I’m wrong) Nintendo has picked all the characters for the Fighter’s Pass and there is no way that they would pick Reimu. Ok, a series very popular in Japan but more or less unknown in the west? Not impossible, Fire Emblem may very well still be unknown in the west today if not for Smash Bros. A character with basically no relation to Nintendo? Cloud and Joker say hi. But a series that has pretty much never been localized in the west? A third party rep who isn’t either from a massive franchise like Steve or Hero or just an iconic character like Ryu or Cloud? A series who pretty much owes it’s popularity to it’s massive fan output that the creator actively encourages when Nintendo is very anti-fan creation nowadays? And I could go on and on...even if Sakurai was choosing the characters her chances would be so, so low. Honestly, I would be extremely surprised if we got any Mii costumes or Touhou representation whatsoever in Smash.

That’s not to say that I don’t love Touhou or that Reimu is one of my most wanted characters. It’s funny because I’m actually working on my own version of a potential moveset right now and then found that everyone was talking to her. Do I think that Reimu deserves a spot in Smash? Yes and I could go on and on about why but in the end it’s an extremely biased opinion. Really, the only way I could ever realistically see her in Smash? If we get a new Smash Ballot then Reimu fans - vote! vote! vote! I’m not saying that she’d win because that’d be ridiculous, but having a strong showing in a ballot would be the only way that such a niche character like her is even considered.

Oh and speaking of: how likely do you guys think that another Smash Ballot after FP2 would be? I think it’s much likelier than a whole new fighter’s pass and I’d actually prefer it. And on top of that, who do you think would win? ;0

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And there will never be official translations of the original novels, to be frank. Between the series moving away from its roots, and content it really doesn't want you to remember, the original novels are almost certainly never going to be officially translated.

They've removed the sex scenes from the game when porting it and Type Moon's still working on a VN, Stay Night's also easily the most wellknown installment so I don't get this, especially with how one of the most recent games is about Stay Night

 

[Shroob]

They've removed the sex scenes from the game when porting it and Type Moon's still working on a VN, Stay Night's also easily the most wellknown installment so I don't get this, especially with how one of the most recent games is about Stay Night

Well the VN type moon's working on is a completely different franchise of theirs tbf, which has no relation to Fate.(Also I have no idea if it's an all-ages one or not).


Regardless, with how big Fate's become, I feel like if it were ever to be translated, we'd have seen it by now, especially since Steam's no stranger to having a plethora of visual novels on its shelves. Or maybe they just don't find it a profitable endeavor to officially localize it? Who knows.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well the VN type moon's working on is a completely different franchise of theirs tbf, which has no relation to Fate.(Also I have no idea if it's an all-ages one or not).


Regardless, with how big Fate's become, I feel like if it were ever to be translated, we'd have seen it by now, especially since Steam's no stranger to having a plethora of visual novels on its shelves. Or maybe they just don't find it a profitable endeavor to officially localize it? Who knows.

I mean, that logic can apply to literally any company. Where the **** is my Prime Trilogy port Nintendo? And my Tellius remakes?

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

If Reimu gets in, then Touhou's popularity in Japan and other Asian countries will be used as the reason for her inclusion within the community.
If Reimu doesn't get in, then Touhou's obscurity in the Western countries will be used as the reason for her exclusion within the community.
Either way, the outcome determines the reason.
That will be the de facto truth eventually within the smash community.
Touhou's real status does not matter.
Smash makes the status.
That's what really matters.

So the question should be, does Nintendo want the Touhou franchise to become more mainstream and Nintendo-centric or not.

 

[Lionfranky]

I think "Banjo was at least popular in Japan" is kinda BS. Halo didn't lag behind that much in Japan either. If you try to bring Japanese ballot as proof, that's poor evidence as that's still small sample. And how many Japanese actually voted? At least, Halo gets Japanese dub.

 

[RileyXY1]

Touhou is popular in Japan, but here's the thing — how many other series can claim the same? Better yet, how many series can claim that they're popular in Japan AND can stay afloat overseas? Let's take it step further; how many series are not only popular in Japan, but also popular in NA, EU, and most other parts of the world? I feel like this is where Reimu and Touhou fall flat. Yeah, there's a few characters like Hero who have lopsided support, but it seems like a majority of the third-parties we currently have are fairly popular in all regions.

Just how recognizable Reimu and Touhou are outside of Japan is up for debate, but to be completely honest, I'd say just about every third-party franchise on the roster dropkicks Touhou when put side-by-side. It just can't compete, and when you have seemingly limitless choices, I struggle to see why Nintendo would double down on Touhou when they could get the rights to a safer, more iconic franchise.

Yeah, and Nintendo has never promoted the series in an official Nintendo Direct.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Reimu designs eh?

just use her Azure Reflections design and VO and call it a day tbh

 

[3BitSaurus]

You know, remember my post about Pyra and Mythra getting character loyalists of their own? Well, looks like there's also people who can't choose, like VoiD:

Jokes aside, I really like what I'm seeing in the videos from the competitive side. I know it's too early to tell, but it might be the biggest splash a character has made since Joker.

 

[Guynamednelson]

They also rarely merchandise their franchises even though GTA/Red Dead collectibles having the potential to make millions.

You're not going to see their merch on GameStop shelves, but I've seen too many different products on Rockstar Warehouse to think they rarely merchandise their games. They've even made plushies of Franklin's dog at one point.

 

[Staarih]

The appealing thing to me about Reimu is Touhou's (western) obscurity. I love characters like that, who have a long history and somewhat of a "status" somewhere in the gaming world, but not like BIG big as I and many others are not straight-up familiar with them. When Smash introduces characters like that, I'm all for it. And it's a good thing that Smash does that, as if it were only "big" or "deserving" games, it would be boring to me. If smaller/obscure series get a boost of recognition from Smash (as they often do), even better.

Regarding Reimu, a bullet hell character is also something we don't have yet, which would be cool. But ya'll all know I'm still going strong with Undertale if that counts.

But in the end the status of the series doesn't really matter as said before. If Nintendo wants something in, they'll put it in (if possible).

 

[Jorichi]

The appealing thing to me about Reimu is Touhou's (western) obscurity. I love characters like that, who have a long history and somewhat of a "status" somewhere in the gaming world, but not like BIG big as I and many others are not straight-up familiar with them. When Smash introduces characters like that, I'm all for it. And it's a good thing that Smash does that, as if it were only "big" or "deserving" games, it would be boring to me. If smaller/obscure series get a boost of recognition from Smash (as they often do), even better.

Regarding Reimu, a bullet hell character is also something we don't have yet, which would be cool. But ya'll all know I'm still going strong with Undertale if that counts.

But in the end the status of the series doesn't really matter as said before. If Nintendo wants something in, they'll put it in (if possible).

To me Reimu is interesting because I'm just very curious what they could do with a character from such a genre. And I also like that Smash can shed some more light on franchises that are more obscure in other parts of the world.
But with Touhou I find it a bit difficult to see how it'd be received.
The franchise looks like a bit of mess from an 'outsider's' perspective. Lots of fangames and spinoffs that kind of muddies the water for anyone trying to find a good entry point to see what it's all about. If a franchise needs an explanation on where to jump in from or what's considered 'mainline' or 'canon' or not, that's going to be hard to 'sell' regardless.
I highly doubt that'd effect Reimu's chances though. I'm just very curious how they'd go about introducing it all to a more general or 'casual' audience and how they'd receive it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Ah so we talking Reimu then eh?

I for one wouldn't mind her inclusion. Not to mention another female rep so she'd be a welcoming addition. Also curious how she would play.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I hope they embrace the full on ZUN art

Just a 3D model of this

But I think they would pull a Banjo and basically create a new design that is a unique to smash interpretation of the character.

Or they'll just base it off of one of the fighting games.

I'm thinking Reimu's appearance would probably be very similar to Hopeless Masquerade, mostly because of how it's the best look proportionally when it comes to Smash. Though, the ZUN Art would be hilarious. Now, whether the PC-98 version of Reimu will be a Costume... yeah probably not that's going to be a Color at most! The inverse with Purple Hair. However, I do think there's a possibility of a Bad Apple!! Recolor due to its Viral Status over here, and how it would already be incredibly simple to make by Smash Standards.

 

[Lyncario]

For Touhou's western populairty, I think it should be clear that there's very few actual numbers, and only one of them is semi-official.

The semi-official one is number of followers on the english Touhou Lost World twitter page (it(s semi-official because the number of twitter followers is not an accurate estimation of the fanbase, and also since Lost World isn't directly made by ZUN), which is currently as 35 700 followers. For comparaison, the FEHeroes twitter account is at 95 300 followers, while alos being 3 years older, and also with how Fire Emblem Heroes is currently available in English unlike Touhou Lost World. And if you want to know for the japanese twitter pages as comparaison, FEH has 177 500 followers, while Touhou Lost World has 324 300 followers.

https://twitter.com/touhouLW_Global

https://twitter.com/FE_Heroes_EN

https://twitter.com/FE_Heroes_JP

https://twitter.com/Touhou_LW

And after that we the Touhou subreddit, which has currently 71 500 members. For comparaison, the Kirby subreddit has 81 500 members, which is more, but also very close considering Kirby's popularity. Subreddits cannot really be used to gauge popularity, but this is still impresive.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

So yeah, Touhou is surprisingly popular in the west, all things considered, to the point where it kinda doesn't make sense.

 

[JOJONumber691]

For Touhou's western populairty, I think it should be clear that there's very few actual numbers, and only one of them is semi-official.

The semi-official one is number of followers on the english Touhou Lost World twitter page (it(s semi-official because the number of twitter followers is not an accurate estimation of the fanbase, and also since Lost World isn't directly made by ZUN), which is currently as 35 700 followers. For comparaison, the FEHeroes twitter account is at 95 300 followers, while alos being 3 years older, and also with how Fire Emblem Heroes is currently available in English unlike Touhou Lost World. And if you want to know for the japanese twitter pages as comparaison, FEH has 177 500 followers, while Touhou Lost World has 324 300 followers.

https://twitter.com/touhouLW_Global

https://twitter.com/FE_Heroes_EN

https://twitter.com/FE_Heroes_JP

https://twitter.com/Touhou_LW

And after that we the Touhou subreddit, which has currently 71 500 members. For comparaison, the Kirby subreddit has 81 500 members, which is more, but also very close considering Kirby's popularity. Subreddits cannot really be used to gauge popularity, but this is still impresive.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

So yeah, Touhou is surprisingly popular in the west, all things considered, to the point where it kinda doesn't make sense.

Yeah it definitely has a Western following, always has. I do think enough people know what Touhou is in the West in order to justify it probably being our next Fighter if those Glitches mean anything, just like Terry. Honestly, considering how generous ZUN is, I could see Reimu having just as many, if not more, Tracks than Terry. And considering Music helps sell a lot of people on certain franchises, it would be pretty awesome not gonna lie.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Though haven't Reimu and Kirby both been in that Taiko no Tatsujin game?

And Ace Attorney, Assassination Classroom, it also has pokemon, Idolm@ster(s), fraking Miyazaki Ghibli songs.

It has alot of colabs

 

[JOJONumber691]

And Ace Attorney, Assassination Classroom, it also has pokemon, Idolm@ster(s), fraking Miyazaki Ghibli songs.

It has alot of colabs

Wait, Ghibli in something not Ghibli? HOLY CRAP WHAT?!!??!?!?!?!?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

And Ace Attorney, Assassination Classroom, it also has pokemon, Idolm@ster(s), fraking Miyazaki Ghibli songs.

It has alot of colabs

Hold up idolmaster??? Show me. NOW.

 

[Speed Weed]

And Ace Attorney, Assassination Classroom, it also has pokemon, Idolm@ster(s), fraking Miyazaki Ghibli songs.

It has alot of colabs

And you can't forget the GOAT:

Spoiler

 

[Will]

And you can't forget the GOAT:

Spoiler

man this interconnected smash universe lore gets deeper every day huh

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that Reimu is a likely pick until a Touhou game is featured in a Nintendo Direct.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

I want Reimu in Smash because it's the best shot for a western character like Master Chief getting in to balance things out lol

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

And you can't forget the GOAT:

Spoiler

We dont talk about this mistake of a localization

 

[Speed Weed]

We dont talk about this mistake of a localization

but it has the Jimmy Neutron theme

 

[SKX31]

You know, remember my post about Pyra and Mythra getting character loyalists of their own? Well, looks like there's also people who can't choose, like VoiD:

Jokes aside, I really like what I'm seeing in the videos from the competitive side. I know it's too early to tell, but it might be the biggest splash a character has made since Joker.

And so, the Waifu War re-ignited...

That's also the impression that most in the competitive thread (and other competitive-leaning forums). Sure, it's down to Mythra's / Pyra's abilities, hitboxes etc. (Such as Foresight which alone has caused a lot of discussions), but still. Which incidentally makes and fellow DLC jealous. Compare this:

To Mythra's and Pyra's:

(Sidenote: Mythra's pink hitbox has another hitbox underneath it, which is outprioritized by the former and will never take any effect itself. Likely an oversight by the devs. Also, Mythra has a landing hitbox on her N-Air, because yes.)

Seriously, Sakurai and co. just loved to give Mythra / Pyra a huge amount of hitboxes just so that the attacks would hit.

man this interconnected smash universe lore gets deeper every day huh

Proof that the interconnected Smash Universe is already deeper than the Mariana Trench and there's no going back:

Mario's only a couple steps away from the best anime of all time...

Because they both appeared on the same console.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

but it has the Jimmy Neutron theme

Ok, we can talk about the Jimmy Neutron theme

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The funny thing is that Reimu's just had the bad luck of Touhou becoming really prominent after the age in where an obscure (to Western audiences) fighter in Smash would have been more likely. Her being in something like Melee would confused the heck out of a lot of people (especially given the lack of an official Nintendo release) but with a solid moveset and design, its possible she could have been embraced like Marth and Roy were.

Its just that now, in an era of Cloud and Minecraft Steve in Ultimate, more regionally niche fighters seem restricted to first parties and even that's hardly consistent. Its ironic in a way, the bigger the Smash tent gets, the harder it feels like for certain characters to get in through the door.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Touhou does have a place in gaming history as one of the, if not the oldest indie series if you include the PC-98 games and Touhou fangames are a launching pad for future devs and it also inspired other popular games like Undertale. And Touhou is one of the few series I know with it's own specific convention and everything simply because of the amount of doujin material made for it.


Reimu is my #1 most wanted but Touhou is in a weird spot here. People may not know Reimu or Touhou by name but they may have clearly seen Touhou fan videos like Bad Apple or Night of Nights or something like that. And Touhou is a lot more influential than people give it credit for but there's always people who are hesitant to even see Reimu as a possibility simply because support for her exploded during Ultimate.

But at the very least, she's probably the most refreshing character to talk about, especially when usually people would bring up the same five-six character and expect them as inevitable, ignoring everyone else. And even if I am 50/50 on whether she could get in or not, I am glad she is proof that character discussion was shaken up a lot this cycle.

 

[DarthEnderX]

"Hey this song is pretty good. What's it from?"
"Oh, just this musical group from Japan called RD-Sounds and sung by-"
"No, but what's it from?"
".... Touhou."

See, and I used to be able to answer HONESTLY "I have no idea."

Stupid Smashboards. Robbing me of my deniability...

Alright, here’s my whole two cents on the whole Reimu issue: is she a character I could see getting picked for Smash? A very slim chance but yes...a very slim chance that only exists if it was Sakurai picking the characters.

I think she has a SOLID chance of being a Mii costume. Just like all the other indie characters.