Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

You know where I'm going with this by now.

Smiley face! I knew it was you all along!

Really funny
It's joking!

 

[Pillow]

Is there a more iconic villain missing than Eggman?
Theres still quite a few villains to take sure, but do any of them rise past Robotnik? I’d argue he's the biggest antagonist missing.

There are cases to be made for M. Bison, Wiley, and Nemesis.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Flying Monkey.

pic.twitter.com/udepGEicf7

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) January 28, 2021

The Legend Spirit could be something like The Death Egg.

Pshhh, CLEARLY it'd be the Nega Wisp Armour judging by how much the series has reused that for the main series sincr

 

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

Coincidentally, that also happens to be a Sonic villain.

Really videos quote from sonic!

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

There are cases to be made for M. Bison, Wiley, and Nemesis.

Nemesis maybe. But Mega Mans drop off in the 2000s and the fact hes not even the villain in the X series makes me highly doubt he beats Eggman.
M Bison is more understandable, though fighting games being niche in the general gaming Sphere makes me a little skeptical.

 

[Ivander]

Making a roster is a lot harder than it looks. Ever since talking about Sega VS Capcom, I wanted to try doing my own made-up roster for it. But it's not easy when you're limiting it to Marvel Infinite's base number per company, 15 each. And even harder when as you are making it, a theme comes into mind and it influences your roster choices. Here's the end result:

Spoiler: Roster choices

Sega: 15
Sonic the Hedgehog
Shadow the Hedgehog
Dr. Eggman
Akira Yuki (Virtua Fighter)
Pai Chan or Sarah Bryant (Virtua Fighter)
Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)
Joe Musashi (Shinobi)
Sketch Turner (Comix Zone)
NiGHTS (NiGHTS into Dreams)
Centurion (Altered Beast)
Ash Canaan (Phantasy Star Online 2)
Nei (Phantasy Star 2)
The Magician (House of the Dead)
Gunstar Red (Gunstar Heroes)
Bayonetta

Capcom: 15
Mega Man
Roll or Bass (Mega Man)
Dr. Wily
Ryu
Chun-Li
Mike Hagger (Final Fight)
Strider Hiryu
Viewtiful Joe
Morrigan (Darkstalkers)
Amaterasu (Okami)
Monster Hunter
Arisen (Dragon's Dogma)
Leon S. Kennedy (Resident Evil)
Edward Falcon (Power Stone)
Dante (Devil May Cry)

Basically, the theme regarding the characters is:

Spoiler

• Sonic & Megaman are the Blue Mascots
• Shadow & Bass are the Dark Rivals to the Blue Mascots while Shadow & Roll can be a reference to Shadow & Maria, with Roll looking similar to Maria.
• Dr. Eggman & Dr. Wily are the Arch enemies of the Blue Mascots
• Akira & Ryu are the main fighters of their series.
• I don't exactly know who is more popular in Virtua Fighter between Pai Chan and Sarah, since both seem to appear regularly in crossovers. That said, Chun-Li and Pai Chan is somewhat referencing Project X Zone 2 when Chun-Li noted the similarities between her, Ling Xiaoyu and Pai. On the other hand, Chun-Li and Sarah can be a semi-callback to the fighters' trope of China Girl and Blonde-haired girl, with Chun-Li/Pai Chan and Sarah/Cammy.
• Axel Stone & Mike Hagger is a semi-reference to Axel Stone's similarity to Cody and both Final Fight & Streets of Rage being beat-em ups.
• Joe Musashi and Strider Hiryu are assassin-like characters who deal with an organization trying to take over the world, with Grandmaster Meio's army for Strider and Zeed for Joe Musashi. Their games are also fast-paced.
• Sketch Turner & Viewtiful Joe are the nerds, with Sketch Turner into comic books and rock'n roll and Viewtiful Joe into action figures and Sentai shows and movies and both are sucked into the object of their interest, with Turner sucked into a comic book and Joe sucked into a Sentai film.
• NiGHTS and Morrigan are the Dream creatures, with Morrigan being a Succubus and NiGHTS being an exiled Nightmaren.
• The Centurion and Amaterasu are long-ago heroes who are called into action by a celestial being to fight with an evil entity. Also, the Centurion can shapeshift into a werewolf, as well as a dragon, tiger and bear.
• Ash(who is nameless in the game) & the Monster Hunter are the Hunters of their games, PSO2 and Monster Hunter. Ash's main class is Hunter and focuses on wielding melee weapons, including spears and a giant sword. Both of their games focus on going through areas and defeating monsters and giant monsters alike and also doing other missions like collecting certain items and whatnot. That aside, Monster Hunter was also inspired by the first Phantasy Star Online.
• Since there wasn't really a second choice for a Monster Hunter character to go with Nei, I chose the Arisen from Dragon's Dogma due to it's similarities to Monster Hunter. There are quite a bit of story connections between them though, with Nei being a human-like being that is the first companion of the hero of PS2 and the Arisen having the Pawn, a human-like being. Also, depending on scenario, Nei will sacrifice herself to defeat her evil half, Neifirst, for the main character of PS2 while the Arisen sacrifices themselves to give their Pawn their will and body to free them from a pawn's life.
• Leon Kennedy and The Magician represent Resident Evil and House of the Dead, the two games that popularised zombies. Leon Kennedy can be an allusion to the American AMS agents sent to the areas in House of the Dead games due to himself being referred to as an American agent and the Magician can be an allusion to Resident Evil 4's archaic castle setting, due to the Magician being very statue-like. The Magician also has worms squiggling around in his House of the Dead 2 form and can be an allusion to the bug/worm-like Las Plagas from RE4 that could also take control of suits of armor.
• Gunstar Red and Edward Falcon are from games with different genres, but both games have a story focus on stones/gems. In the story, the gems being sought by the Power Stone characters are connected to Gunstar Heroes' final boss, Golden Silver.
• Dante and Bayonetta speak enough for themselves, due to having the same creator and being the same genre and how everybody wants to see these two fight or team-up.

The story theme is supposed to be that it starts rather light-hearted with Eggman and Wily being the scientists trying to take over the world, but they are eventually convinced to join a bunch of less-comedic scientists and other leaders with darker experiments by a "Mother Brain" like entity and eventually the big bads of the game behind the events are revealed to be Primordial evils, being Dark Falz, the Profound Darkness of Phantasy Star and Yami, the Emperor of Eternal Darkness, from Okami.
Dark Falz is responsible for the corruption of the "Mother Brain"-like entity that takes advantage of the scientists(one of whom is Dr. Curien, the creator of The Magician) and leaders while Yami is responsible for the more ancient/fantasy-like evils.
While Dark Falz and Yami serve as the Final bosses of Arcade(with a combined form for Story mode), there are other bosses that serve as middle/penultimate bosses in the arcade and are fought at times during the story:

• Death Egg Robot from Sonic
• Mecha Dragon from Megaman
• Death Adder from Golden Axe
• Pyron from Darkstalkers
• Golden Silver from Gunstar Heroes.
• Nergigante from Monster Hunter World(who hunts for Pyron and Death Adder, but also turns it's attention to Dark Falz and Yami)
• The Shadow Master from Shinobi 3
• Oda Nobunaga from Sengoku Basara, who was revived by Guildenstern for Fortinbras, but connected to Yami(inspired by Teppen's interactions between Okami and Sengoku Basara)

Spoiler: Summary and final thoughts.

I was hoping for alot more Capcom newcomers, but sticking to Marvel Infinite's base made me realise of how too fitting some of Capcom's recurring franchises are next to some of Sega's franchises. At the very least, Classic Mega Man would get their first 3D model, and there are at least 4-5 Capcom newcomers. In the case for Sega newcomers regarding Sega All-Stars/Project X Zone/Smash Bros, there are 6 newcomers. But man, so many other choices I wanted to do, but couldn't.

• Gillius Thunderhead from Golden Axe and Arthur from Ghosts'n Goblins were on the original list, but lost to Sketch and Joe due to having little space. I felt these two would've been good rivals due to being diminutive men going against an army of darkness.
• Beat from Jet Set Radio was also on the list, but when the story theme started to kick in, Beat was taken out.
• Asura from Asura's Wrath was in the plans, but I could not find a Sega character to rival Asura. Sad because I was really thinking of Asura against Dark Falz Elder/Arms.
• Sakura from Sakura Wars was considered, but as I did not know much about Sakura Wars aside from dating sim and steampunk mecha, she was taken out. One of her planned rivals was Jin Saotome, due to both being Japanese, their games being mecha-focused and both of them having a famous soldier for a father.
• Oda Nobunaga was planned to be a character, but couldn't decide on another rival in time, as I felt making him fight against Sakura at the time didn't have enough to really work with aside from the fact that both were Japanese and Nobunaga fought against a character in a steampunk mecha and won. I added him as a boss since I really want to hear this theme in a Versus Capcom game.
  
  

  Sengoku basara anime Nobunaga theme song

  Oda nobunga's theme song from Sengoku basara anime. It was prety hard to find but pls enjoy it take 40 min to convert but i wanted to present to evryone who ...

  www.youtube.com
• Vyse from Skies of Arcadia, Max from Shining Force and Ryu from Breath of Fire were considered, but weren't put in due to the theme that came up later and due to spacing.
• Batsu and Akira Kazama were considered for rivals when Sakura was on the list, but were dropped in favor of Jin before both got dropped.
• I refrained from putting games from Sega's other companies in, like Atlus. I wanted to focus the base roster on the games Sega owned from their list of franchises compared to their other companies franchises. Joker or Demi-fiend could be a DLC character.

 

[Pillow]

Nemesis maybe. But Mega Mans drop off in the 2000s and the fact hes not even the villain in the X series makes me highly doubt he beats Eggman.
M Bison is more understandable, though fighting games being niche in the general gaming Sphere makes me a little skeptical.

You asked for iconic. Which usually connotes legacy. Megaman is definitely iconic still. If we were talking recognizable, then the most obvious missing villain is Team Rocket and the Ender Dragon.

 

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

What the hell, Sega?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd argue Sigma would be up there with Dr. Wily as well.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

What the hell, Sega?

Me upon discovering Battle Mania was originally going to be published by SEGA but then they decided not to and now the Battle Mania rights are all messed up so we will never get a modern port for it through SEGA AGES.

 

[Pillow]

I'd argue Sigma would be up there with Dr. Wily as well.

I'd say he's a tier below Wiley, but I could see it. Honestly speaking if I were to make a claim about the villain that Smash really needs, then it would be "horde of zombies" the villain for...dead rising, L4D, dead island, CoD zombies, plants vs zombies, Michael Jackon's moonwalker and bunch more.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Making a roster is a lot harder than it looks. Ever since talking about Sega VS Capcom, I wanted to try doing my own made-up roster for it. But it's not easy when you're limiting it to Marvel Infinite's base number per company, 15 each. And even harder when as you are making it, a theme comes into mind and it influences your roster choices. Here's the end result:

Spoiler: Roster choices

Sega: 15
Sonic the Hedgehog
Shadow the Hedgehog
Dr. Eggman
Akira Yuki (Virtua Fighter)
Pai Chan or Sarah Bryant (Virtua Fighter)
Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)
Joe Musashi (Shinobi)
Sketch Turner (Comix Zone)
NiGHTS (NiGHTS into Dreams)
Centurion (Altered Beast)
Ash Canaan (Phantasy Star Online 2)
Nei (Phantasy Star 2)
The Magician (House of the Dead)
Gunstar Red (Gunstar Heroes)
Bayonetta

Capcom: 15
Mega Man
Roll or Bass (Mega Man)
Dr. Wily
Ryu
Chun-Li
Mike Hagger (Final Fight)
Strider Hiryu
Viewtiful Joe
Morrigan (Darkstalkers)
Amaterasu (Okami)
Monster Hunter
Arisen (Dragon's Dogma)
Leon S. Kennedy (Resident Evil)
Edward Falcon (Power Stone)
Dante (Devil May Cry)

Basically, the theme regarding the characters is:

Spoiler

• Sonic & Megaman are the Blue Mascots
• Shadow & Bass are the Dark Rivals to the Blue Mascots while Shadow & Roll can be a reference to Shadow & Maria, with Roll looking similar to Maria.
• Dr. Eggman & Dr. Wily are the Arch enemies of the Blue Mascots
• Akira & Ryu are the main fighters of their series.
• I don't exactly know who is more popular in Virtua Fighter between Pai Chan and Sarah, since both seem to appear regularly in crossovers. That said, Chun-Li and Pai Chan is somewhat referencing Project X Zone 2 when Chun-Li noted the similarities between her, Ling Xiaoyu and Pai. On the other hand, Chun-Li and Sarah can be a semi-callback to the fighters' trope of China Girl and Blonde-haired girl, with Chun-Li/Pai Chan and Sarah/Cammy.
• Axel Stone & Mike Hagger is a semi-reference to Axel Stone's similarity to Cody and both Final Fight & Streets of Rage being beat-em ups.
• Joe Musashi and Strider Hiryu are assassin-like characters who deal with an organization trying to take over the world, with Grandmaster Meio's army for Strider and Zeed for Joe Musashi. Their games are also fast-paced.
• Sketch Turner & Viewtiful Joe are the nerds, with Sketch Turner into comic books and rock'n roll and Viewtiful Joe into action figures and Sentai shows and movies and both are sucked into the object of their interest, with Turner sucked into a comic book and Joe sucked into a Sentai film.
• NiGHTS and Morrigan are the Dream creatures, with Morrigan being a Succubus and NiGHTS being an exiled Nightmaren.
• The Centurion and Amaterasu are long-ago heroes who are called into action by a celestial being to fight with an evil entity. Also, the Centurion can shapeshift into a werewolf, as well as a dragon, tiger and bear.
• Ash(who is nameless in the game) & the Monster Hunter are the Hunters of their games, PSO2 and Monster Hunter. Ash's main class is Hunter and focuses on wielding melee weapons, including spears and a giant sword. Both of their games focus on going through areas and defeating monsters and giant monsters alike and also doing other missions like collecting certain items and whatnot. That aside, Monster Hunter was also inspired by the first Phantasy Star Online.
• Since there wasn't really a second choice for a Monster Hunter character to go with Nei, I chose the Arisen from Dragon's Dogma due to it's similarities to Monster Hunter. There are quite a bit of story connections between them though, with Nei being a human-like being that is the first companion of the hero of PS2 and the Arisen having the Pawn, a human-like being. Also, depending on scenario, Nei will sacrifice herself to defeat her evil half, Neifirst, for the main character of PS2 while the Arisen sacrifices themselves to give their Pawn their will and body to free them from a pawn's life.
• Leon Kennedy and The Magician represent Resident Evil and House of the Dead, the two games that popularised zombies. Leon Kennedy can be an allusion to the American AMS agents sent to the areas in House of the Dead games due to himself being referred to as an American agent and the Magician can be an allusion to Resident Evil 4's archaic castle setting, due to the Magician being very statue-like. The Magician also has worms squiggling around in his House of the Dead 2 form and can be an allusion to the bug/worm-like Las Plagas from RE4 that could also take control of suits of armor.
• Gunstar Red and Edward Falcon are from games with different genres, but both games have a story focus on stones/gems. In the story, the gems being sought by the Power Stone characters are connected to Gunstar Heroes' final boss, Golden Silver.
• Dante and Bayonetta speak enough for themselves, due to having the same creator and being the same genre and how everybody wants to see these two fight or team-up.

The story theme is supposed to be that it starts rather light-hearted with Eggman and Wily being the scientists trying to take over the world, but they are eventually convinced to join a bunch of less-comedic scientists and other leaders with darker experiments by a "Mother Brain" like entity and eventually the big bads of the game behind the events are revealed to be Primordial evils, being Dark Falz, the Profound Darkness of Phantasy Star and Yami, the Emperor of Eternal Darkness, from Okami.
Dark Falz is responsible for the corruption of the "Mother Brain"-like entity that takes advantage of the scientists(one of whom is Dr. Curien, the creator of The Magician) and leaders while Yami is responsible for the more ancient/fantasy-like evils.
While Dark Falz and Yami serve as the Final bosses of Arcade(with a combined form for Story mode), there are other bosses that serve as middle/penultimate bosses in the arcade and are fought at times during the story:

• Death Egg Robot from Sonic
• Mecha Dragon from Megaman
• Death Adder from Golden Axe
• Pyron from Darkstalkers
• Golden Silver from Gunstar Heroes.
• Nergigante from Monster Hunter World(who hunts for Pyron and Death Adder, but also turns it's attention to Dark Falz and Yami)
• The Shadow Master from Shinobi 3
• Oda Nobunaga from Sengoku Basara, who was revived by Guildenstern for Fortinbras, but connected to Yami(inspired by Teppen's interactions between Okami and Sengoku Basara)

Spoiler: Summary and final thoughts.

I was hoping for alot more Capcom newcomers, but sticking to Marvel Infinite's base made me realise of how too fitting some of Capcom's recurring franchises are next to some of Sega's franchises. At the very least, Classic Mega Man would get their first 3D model, and there are at least 4-5 Capcom newcomers. In the case for Sega newcomers regarding Sega All-Stars/Project X Zone/Smash Bros, there are 6 newcomers. But man, so many other choices I wanted to do, but couldn't.

• Gillius Thunderhead from Golden Axe and Arthur from Ghosts'n Goblins were on the original list, but lost to Sketch and Joe due to having little space. I felt these two would've been good rivals due to being diminutive men going against an army of darkness.
• Beat from Jet Set Radio was also on the list, but when the story theme started to kick in, Beat was taken out.
• Asura from Asura's Wrath was in the plans, but I could not find a Sega character to rival Asura. Sad because I was really thinking of Asura against Dark Falz Elder/Arms.
• Sakura from Sakura Wars was considered, but as I did not know much about Sakura Wars aside from dating sim and steampunk mecha, she was taken out. One of her planned rivals was Jin Saotome, due to both being Japanese, their games being mecha-focused and both of them having a famous soldier for a father.
• Oda Nobunaga was planned to be a character, but couldn't decide on another rival in time, as I felt making him fight against Sakura at the time didn't have enough to really work with aside from the fact that both were Japanese and Nobunaga fought against a character in a steampunk mecha and won. I added him as a boss since I really want to hear this theme in a Versus Capcom game.
  
  

  Sengoku basara anime Nobunaga theme song

  Oda nobunga's theme song from Sengoku basara anime. It was prety hard to find but pls enjoy it take 40 min to convert but i wanted to present to evryone who ...

  www.youtube.com
• Vyse from Skies of Arcadia, Max from Shining Force and Ryu from Breath of Fire were considered, but weren't put in due to the theme that came up later and due to spacing.
• Batsu and Akira Kazama were considered for rivals when Sakura was on the list, but were dropped in favor of Jin before both got dropped.
• I refrained from putting games from Sega's other companies in, like Atlus. I wanted to focus the base roster on the games Sega owned from their list of franchises compared to their other companies franchises. Joker or Demi-fiend could be a DLC character.

So? DLC when?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd say he's a tier below Wiley, but I could see it.

My thinking is that since the Mega Man X series is as big or bigger than the classic series (which seems to be the case from what I've seen), its main villain would be about as big as the classic series's villain.

He's at the very least someone who's going to be on the docket for when Mega Man gets its 4th or 5th character (perhaps even 3rd if they decided to hold off on adding Mega Man X for whatever reason).

EDIT: Though I will concede that Wily is definitely the more important character to the series since he's either directly or indirectly responsible for the events in the X, Z, and ZX series on top of being the main villain for the classic series.

 

[Ivander]

So? DLC when?

Thinking of DLC is going to be a while and nightmarish, especially if it's restricted to two characters each like Marvel Infinite.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

You asked for iconic. Which usually connotes legacy. Megaman is definitely iconic still. If we were talking recognizable, then the most obvious missing villain is Team Rocket and the Ender Dragon.

Webster Dictionary has its relevant definition as “widely recognized and well-established” So its a mixture of both.
Mega Man is still somewhat of an icon (though in recent years I haven’t found a lot of non gaming people who recognize him). Robotnik is consistently someone people outside the gaming sphere
Hes got a big legacy and is currently more recognizable. So I'd say hes the bigger icon. For now, at least.

 

[Perkilator]

Iirc, most of Sonic the Hedgehog's included tracks are the band songs, so they wouldn't have much trouble picking from the rest of the series's OSTs. Dr. Eggman's Spirit Board could be themed around his creations. Metal Sonic, Shadow, and Omega would (or might) be reused for this purpose, but after that, they could add some of the biggest boss machine designs (like the one from Sonic the Hedgehog 2), and a few of the most iconic Badnik designs. The Legend Spirit could be something like The Death Egg.

It doesn't necessarily need to be limited to Eggman's creations. It could be other Sonic characters, both allies and enemies.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It doesn't necessarily need to be limited to Eggman's creations. It could be other Sonic characters, both allies and enemies.

True, but most of the extended cast are already Spirits. There are a handful of decent candidates still like Mighty, Ray, Styx, and the Deadly 6, but I felt going full Eggman would give the theme the focus it needed to be something that sounds a bit more realistic.

 

[7NATOR]

I think Eggman is really the most Iconic villain missing. I'd actually argue that he's more Iconic, or at least more reconzizable than Sephiroth, who we just got, and probably also Gan

Is there a more iconic villain missing than Eggman?
Theres still quite a few villains to take sure, but do any of them rise past Robotnik? I’d argue he's the biggest antagonist missing.

You could make the argument that the Pac-Man Ghosts are more recognizable, but they are part of Pac-Man's moveset

I think Eggman is definitely the most Iconic villain missing, and I'd actually argue he's more recognizable than Sephiroth even, who we just got, except for maybe in Japan

 

[Cutie Gwen]

True, but most of the extended cast are already Spirits. There are a handful of decent candidates still like Mighty, Ray, Styx, and the Deadly 6, but I felt going full Eggman would give the theme the focus it needed to be something that sounds a bit more realistic.

Tbf some of the Spirits you find on the Min Min board were already in the base game too

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Tbf some of the Spirits you find on the Min Min board were already in the base game too

Yeah, and I suggested a few base ones be included in the Eggman theme as well, but that's not quite the same as having most of them be base Spirits, which would kind of be necessary if the focus was on the extended cast. The Spirits we have are pretty through.

If you wanted an alternative theme to just Eggman, you could do major villains. We already have Chaos, Metal Sonic, and Infinite, but then you could add Mephiles, Dark Gia, The Deadly 6, other Chaos forms, King Arthur if we're going into the spin-offs, etc.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, and I suggested a few base ones be included in the Eggman theme as well, but that's not quite the same as having most of them be base Spirits, which would kind of be necessary if the focus was on the extended cast. The Spirits we have are pretty through.

If you wanted an alternative theme to just Eggman, you could do major villains. We already have Chaos, Metal Sonic, and Infinite, but then you could add Mephiles, Dark Gia, The Deadly 6, other Chaos forms, King Arthur if we're going into the spin-offs, etc.

The typo of Dark Gia is great because it implies one of Sonic's villains is an evil supermodel played by Angelina Jolie

 

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

Either Feb or March in Smash DLC reveal?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is there a more iconic villain missing than Eggman?
Theres still quite a few villains to take sure, but do any of them rise past Robotnik? I’d argue he's the biggest antagonist missing.

I'd also say he's the biggest atm.

I still think he'd make a better Boss than a PC though.

There are cases to be made for M. Bison, Wiley, and Nemesis.

All big(though, frankly, Wesker is a bigger RE villain than Nemesis), but I still say Eggman has the edge over them.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The typo of Dark Gia is great because it implies one of Sonic's villains is an evil supermodel played by Angelina Jolie

...

So today I learned gaia is spelled with an extra "a".

 

[7NATOR]

Either Feb or March in Smash DLC reveal?

I'd say Late Febuarary or Early-Mid March, but I think March will be the month we get the reveal

 

[GoodGrief741]

Flying Monkey.

pic.twitter.com/udepGEicf7

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) January 28, 2021

Huh, so this is how Godzilla wins

 

[LAA9000]

INTRUDER ALERT

A RED SPY IS IN THE BASE

 

[Pillow]

I'd also say he's the biggest atm.

I still think he'd make a better Boss than a PC though.

All big(though, frankly, Wesker is a bigger RE villain than Nemesis), but I still say Eggman has the edge over them.

Gosh how’d I forget about Wesker. We really need Jill now just so we can get Wesker someday.

 

[---]

Probably Eggman or M. Bison in terms of third party villains. Though neither I would really bet on them compared to other characters in their same series.

BTW did we ever get a Sakurai column talking about Sephiroth's inclusion/development? Pretty sure we didn't as interesting as it would be.

Me upon discovering Battle Mania was originally going to be published by SEGA but then they decided not to and now the Battle Mania rights are all messed up so we will never get a modern port for it through SEGA AGES.

Even as someone who did blow a bunch of money on original copies of both games, that's a shame to hear. Now that you mention it, I guess that's why neither showed up on the Mini. Ironic as they were able to get other cult classics such as Alisia Dragoon.

Recently saw a Twitter thread detailing the changes for each game and I'm half tempted to pick up another copy of Miracle World for the better control set up or Phantasy Star for FM music.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

BTW did we ever get a Sakurai column talking about Sephiroth's inclusion/development? Pretty sure we didn't as interesting as it would be.

Iirc he only said that the trailer was planned before 7R launched

 

[LAA9000]

If you don't mind me contributing, I think Dr. Eggman is actually one of the most boring character predictions right now. My reasoning for this is based on something PapaGenos brought up in his Smash speculation after Sephiroth video: https://youtu.be/-WqdxTf8Bk8?t=1613

Notice how after Sephiroth was revealed, many people started predicting Eggman because he's another iconic villain from a classic game series already represented in Smash, albeit poorly. Or how after Steve & Alex were revealed, those same people predicted Jonesy because he's another blank slate avatar from a 2010s game craze that involves building. Or how after an ARMS character was teased, they predicted Rex & Pyra because they're another pair of characters from a 2017 first-party Switch game that Sakurai mentioned couldn't get into the base game due to poor timing. You get the gist by now.

Also notice how none of these predictions have been correct so far.

That's my issue with them: they're far too safe, and since they're always based entirely on what the last fighter brought to the table they feel a lot like bandwagons. Besides, the Smash team always loves to throw surprises at us and venture into new territories, so they're hardly ever correct. This just cements into my mind that it really is impossible to accurately predict Smash newcomers unless they're leaked.

No offense if you wanted or predicted Eggman before Sephiroth, of course.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If you don't mind me contributing, I think Dr. Eggman is actually one of the most boring character predictions right now. My reasoning for this is based on something PapaGenos brought up in his Smash speculation after Sephiroth video: https://youtu.be/-WqdxTf8Bk8?t=1613

Notice how after Sephiroth was revealed, many people started predicting Eggman because he's another iconic villain from a classic game series already represented in Smash, albeit poorly. Or how after Steve & Alex were revealed, those same people predicted Jonesy because he's another blank slate avatar from a 2010s game craze that involves building. Or how after an ARMS character was teased, they predicted Rex & Pyra because they're another pair of characters from a 2017 first-party Switch game that Sakurai mentioned couldn't get into the base game due to poor timing. You get the gist by now.

Also notice how none of these predictions have been correct so far.

That's my issue with them: they're far too safe, and since they're always based entirely on what the last fighter brought to the table they feel a lot like bandwagons. Besides, the Smash team always loves to throw surprises at us and venture into new territories, so they're hardly ever correct. This just cements into my mind that it really is impossible to accurately predict Smash newcomers unless they're leaked.

No offense if you wanted or predicted Eggman before Sephiroth, of course.

I get that the core argument is that the Smash fanbase is very fickle and always tries to connect recent characters to potential newcomers because that's always been the case, but I disagree that Sonic's poorly repped. 2 stages, 2 ATs, 17 songs that have a good variety of games and 21 Spirits not counting Sonic's fighter Spirit. That's pretty damn good all things considered. I agree the franchise could use more characters and that Sonic should get a revamped moveset but calling this poor sounds entitled as hell

 

[Idon]

"My favorite franchises are so poorly represented!"
"... your franchises are getting represented?"

 

[LAA9000]

I get that the core argument is that the Smash fanbase is very fickle and always tries to connect recent characters to potential newcomers because that's always been the case, but I disagree that Sonic's poorly repped. 2 stages, 2 ATs, 17 songs that have a good variety of games and 21 Spirits not counting Sonic's fighter Spirit. That's pretty damn good all things considered. I agree the franchise could use more characters and that Sonic should get a revamped moveset but calling this poor sounds entitled as hell

I actually have no personal connection to the Sonic series. I just thought that, with one character (who has a pretty bad moveset) and only one remixed music track, Sonic was a bit worse represented than other third party franchises (probably because it's Sonic the freakin' Hedgehog). Admittedly it doesn't stick out like Final Fantasy used to.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I actually have no personal connection to the Sonic series. I just thought that, with one character (who has a pretty bad moveset) and only one remixed music track, Sonic was a bit worse represented than other third party franchises (probably because it's Sonic the freakin' Hedgehog). Admittedly it doesn't stick out like Final Fantasy used to.

Tbf music's a different case, remixes aren't chosen by Sega or Sakurai, but rather the composers remixing songs they like, one guy made like 30 FE remixes and Sakurai outright said Mega Man and CastleVania were especially popular on the music team, which explains their 30+ tracks. It's total freedom im that regard as long as Nintendo's able to get the licenses

 

[Commander_Alph]

only one remixed music track

Okay, I get the rest but is it a really BIG problem or just a common nitpick since the things that I expected from the music is not having the music be from a recent game and that already sorted out with Forces, Lost World and even Mania. Or you guys just wanna fill in the spaces just so that it will look packed?


And also I have my own nitpick too. What's the matter if he's THE Sonic the Hedgehog, just because he fight Mario head on? I prefer it being quality instead of quantity (which really blurred the line a little bit)

 

[SKX31]

He didn't use the actual German word "Weltanschauung" but he used the translated term of it, "sekaikan", which means literally "worldview".
The word "sekaikan" is pretty common irl everyday Japanese and we use it to distinguish from the word "sekai/world". It's supposed to be a philosophical term so I don't think sekaikan has the same exact meaning as the original tho.
So what Sakurai said was not adding "worlds" to the game, but rather "adding elements to invoke new POV to the world(s)". So technically, an echo with no stage and no music also counts.

Looked up "Weltanschauung" and yeah, it's a philosophical term in its original sense. It's associated with Kant to some extent, but the main user of it is 19th / early 20th century German philosopher and sociologist Wilhelm Dilthey. He used it as way to compare different schools of thought based on how they see humans' relationship to nature. I honestly didn't expect it to be a loanword - but it makes sense: around the time Dilthey lived and worked the Meiji government had established more sustained contact with Europeans and encouraged Japanese to study at European universities.

Back to Smash though - Sakurai's use of the term sounds vague enough that it can be applied in multiple different ways. Whether from say a gameplay or character-focused perspective, or something else entirely. I'm not willing to guess on what though, considering people speculated on Sakurai's hand gesture before Byleth's reveal. And I can confidently say this: not many were expecting it to refer to the number 17 in binary.

Okay, I get the rest but is it a really BIG problem or just a common nitpick since the things that I expected from the music is not having the music be from a recent game and that already sorted out with Forces, Lost World and even Mania. Or you guys just wanna fill in the spaces just so that it will look packed?

It's not a huge issue, but I suspect part of the percieved issue is that Smash doesn't see a lot of Sonic remixes when other Sonic games (such as All-Stars Racing) routinely see quite a few. That and there were not many new Sonic tracks this time around.

 

[ZelDan]

I feel like these fellas here could beat out Eggman's iconic-ness

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Huh, neat coincidence; TKOWL just did an Eggman moveset commission on Twitter!

Full Dr. Eggman Smash moveset commission for @Fawful117 ! pic.twitter.com/pLPD3u18rE

— Ryan's Art Account (@TKOWL_Art) January 28, 2021

Love it. Only question is what are the blue and green alt supposed to reference? I get the others (Geralt Robotnik, Eggman Nega, a Sonic 1 concept art, Classic Eggman and Egg Robo which was also a playable character in. Sonic R, playing similarly to Eggman in that game.)

"My favorite franchises are so poorly represented!"
"... your franchises are getting represented?"
View attachment 300805

Monster Hunter, Nier, Tales of, Tekken, Resident Evil, Astral Chain, Advance Wars, Golden Sun, Crash Bandicoot, Soul Calibur, Ninja Gaiden, Doom, Bomberman, Rhythm Heaven, Professor Layton, Tomb Raider, Shovel Knight, Undertale, Rayman, No More Heroes, Guilty Gear, Ghosts ‘n’ Goblins, Final Fight, Devil May Cry, Mortal Kombat, Okami, Spyro, Puyo Puyo, Chibi-Robo, Dillon, Sin & Punishment, Suidoken, Touhou, Spyro, Kingdom Hearts and many more type of franchise fans would love to have the same level of representation that Sonic has.

 

[TechPowah]

They've never promoted Remakes as the New Characters in the Past

Wouldn't Red technically fit the bill as repping the remakes rather than the originals?