Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Rie Sonomura]

One of the leaks for Sonic's 30th anniversary said that Sonic was getting one of his old va back, can't remember which va or which leak tho.

Might it be one of these?:

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Or

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[CannonStreak]

My bad; hard to tell on the internet sometimes. I know you had the troll face, but I still couldnt tell; thought you just found the idea of bringing Jaleel White back troll-y lol.

It's okay, it happens. Personally, I would find it just funny rather than all-out troll-y if that happened.

 

[JOJONumber691]

One of the leaks for Sonic's 30th anniversary said that Sonic was getting one of his old va back, can't remember which va or which leak tho.

Probably referring to Ben Schwartz. It was probably the intention to use Ben Schwartz in the Movie to phase him in as the New English Sonic.

 

[CannonStreak]

Probably referring to Ben Schwartz. It was probably the intention to use Ben Schwartz in the Movie to phase him in as the New English Sonic.

If that happens, Sonic will have another step in having a relation to Ducktales 2017 Dewey Duck,

That said, I liked Sonic Forces some, but whatever new 3D Sonic game they are making, I do hope they take lessons from Sonic Mania when making the new 3D Sonic game.

 

[Otoad64]

Probably referring to Ben Schwartz. It was probably the intention to use Ben Schwartz in the Movie to phase him in as the New English Sonic.

I hope not, I don't think he really fits for game Sonic

 

[True Blue Warrior]

From my POV, I don't think the problem with our Sonic representation is how many things there are. All things considered, it's got a pretty decent amount of content. The problem is that it feels like there's a distinct lack of love put into a lot of that content. We all know about Sonic's moveset and all, but even beyond that the music, besides not having a lot of remixes, also has a lot of ridiculous omissions, period. Most of the music is just "da first level theme and da main vocal theme" (and even then there's still some bigguns missing like Seaside Hill), and in Ultimate it was only updated to account for the new releases since then. A lot of it just feels like the bare minimum for each game. And the only other stage we have besides Green Hill is - guess what - First Level From At-The-Time Most Recent Game That, To Top It All Off, Also Has Very Similar Theming To Green Hill -.

Sonic in Smash is doing relatively well in terms of sheer numbers, but a lot of what's in these numbers feels really uninspired.

I think the biggest issue is that Sonic isn’t as expressive as he was in Brawl.

I fell like Sephiroth is causing people to think to much "we need another rep of _____ so we can "properly" rep it

I'm sorry guys, but whatever you like it or not, Sonic and Street Fighter has been properly rep with alot of content
Sucks it's mostly Street Fighter 2 and some themes for Sonics, but boo hoo copyright is an ass

Finial Fanstay, one of the most influence RPGs didn't even get none of that,

So for now on, I rather have new characters unless these are fan damnded characters like Waluigi or something (and even then, I would rather for him to be a bouns type of thing, as I don't want to pay for more Mario spirits and music lmao)

I’d argue that there is a big difference between having “poor representation” in general and having significant enough gaps in representation where a fighter pack for an existing franchise would still feel “fresh”.

The likes of Donkey Kong, Kirby and Street Fighter easily have enough missing content in terms of music and stages from certain entries in their franchises (like Tropical Freeze, Street Fighter 3-5 and more modern Kirby games) that a challenger pack for Dixie, Chun-Li and BanDee are viable).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think the biggest issue is that Sonic isn’t as expressive as he was in Brawl.

I think there was some kinda Sega stipulation on his portrayal after Brawl. Stupid, I know

 

[DanganZilla5]

Sonic's content is perfectly fine people!

As long as we have Super Sonic Racing, it's all good.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think the biggest issue is that Sonic isn’t as expressive as he was in Brawl.

To make things worse, NoA didn't get Roger Craig Smith to record new lines, they just reused lines from the games, 'Super Sonic Style' being the most standout example

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Sonic always marked an interesting transition point between the looser and less fervent depiction of characters in largely the Brawl and Melee days to the much more faithful portrayals and plentiful elements associated with fighters circa Smash 4 and Ultimate, especially for guest characters.

Given how generous the songs are for the likes of Terry and Simon, as well as the attempt to really capture them from their home games, its interesting to imagine what a Sonic would be if he came in now as opposed to 12 plus years ago.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

OMG This is a Smash hint! Eggman confirmed!?

Sarcasm

 

[CannonStreak]

OMG This is a Smash hint! Eggman confirmed!?

Sarcasm

Very funny, wise guy!

Scary thing is, if Eggman's voice actor has been replaced, they'll use the new voice actor instead of Mike Pollock.

 

[Perkilator]

Love it. Only question is what are the blue and green alt supposed to reference? I get the others (Geralt Robotnik, Eggman Nega, a Sonic 1 concept art, Classic Eggman and Egg Robo which was also a playable character in. Sonic R, playing similarly to Eggman in that game.)

I'm guessing Maria and Snively.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sonic always marked an interesting transition point between the looser and less fervent depiction of characters in largely the Brawl and Melee days to the much more faithful portrayals and plentiful elements associated with fighters circa Smash 4 and Ultimate, especially for guest characters.

Given how generous the songs are for the likes of Terry and Simon, as well as the attempt to really capture them from their home games, its interesting to imagine what a Sonic would be if he came in now as opposed to 12 plus years ago.

I think Sonic would have been different solely because he wouldn't have been rushed, remember, he was added last minute in Brawl

 

[Gitaroo]

I had a dream that the next smash dlc character was "Older Roy" his outfit was all gold like the yellow roy palette
he was a roy echo with ike's side b and his voice was just roy's but pitched down

he was free and not part of the 'fighter pass' but dream me was still like "I think I will stay off twitter today."

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think Sonic would have been different solely because he wouldn't have been rushed, remember, he was added last minute in Brawl

Definitely though I think even then the approach to guest characters was different enough from today that some of the elements we saw Sonic with in Brawl would have been there even if he had been planned from the beginning. I think you can see even a little of that with Snake who works fine, but in little ways just feels like a contrast to how third party characters are handled today.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Definitely though I think even then the approach to guest characters was different enough from today that some of the elements we saw Sonic with in Brawl would have been there even if he had been planned from the beginning. I think you can see even a little of that with Snake who works fine, but in little ways just feels like a contrast to how third party characters are handled today.

Oh that's absolutely true, Joker keeping his gun convinced me Snake would have actually used his SOCOM instead of explosives if he were added today. Wonder how that would have went, especially with the idea of using tranqs

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I think Nintendo believes Sonic has enough content. The Sonic series has two stages, 20 songs and 23 Spirits that contain all of the most relevant Sonic characters. I don't think we're going to get another Sonic character.

 

[Perkilator]

I think Nintendo believes Sonic has enough content. The Sonic series has two stages, 20 songs and 23 Spirits that contain all of the most relevant Sonic characters. I don't think we're going to get another Sonic character.

I'll give you stages and Spirits, but there's still tons of seemingly no-brainer songs that are absent:

1. Chemical Plant Zone
2. Casino Night Zone
3. Death Egg Robot
4. Palmtree Panic Present
5. Stardust Speedway (Bad Future) / Metal Sonic
6. Metallic Madness
7. Big Arms
8. Mushroom Hill Zone
9. Flying Battery Zone
10. Sky Sanctuary Zone
11. Doomsday Zone
12. Unknown from M.E.
13. Chaos 0, 2, 4
14. Run Through the Speed Highway
15. E.G.G.M.A.N.
16. That's the Way I Like It (for Metal Harbor)
17. Rhythm and Balance (for White Jungle)
18. For True Story
19. Supporting Me
20. Seaside Hill / Ocean Palace
21. Bullet Station
22. Egg Emperor
23. What I'm Made Of
24. Right There, Ride On*
25. Back 2 Back
26. Wrapped in Black
27. Crisis City
28. A New Venture
29. Vs. Egg Dragoon
30. Tropical Resort
31. Planet Wisp
32. Blossom Haze (Press Garden Zone Act 2)
33. Rogues Gallery (Mirage Saloon Zone Act 2)
34. Hi-Spec Robo Go! (Hard Boiled Heavy Boss)
35. Moonlight Battlefield (Aqua Road)
36. Battle with Metal Sonic (US Ver.)
37. Metropolitan Highway

And more.

*This song was in Brawl and Smash 4, but was taken out in Ultimate for some reason.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'll give you stages and Spirits, but there's still tons of seemingly no-brainer songs that are absent:

1. Chemical Plant Zone
2. Casino Night Zone
3. Death Egg Robot
4. Palmtree Panic Present
5. Stardust Speedway (Bad Future) / Metal Sonic
6. Metallic Madness
7. Big Arms
8. Mushroom Hill Zone
9. Flying Battery Zone
10. Sky Sanctuary Zone
11. Doomsday Zone
12. Unknown from M.E.
13. Chaos 0, 2, 4
14. Run Through the Speed Highway
15. E.G.G.M.A.N.
16. That's the Way I Like It (for Metal Harbor)
17. Rhythm and Balance (for White Jungle)
18. For True Story
19. Supporting Me
20. Seaside Hill / Ocean Palace
21. Bullet Station
22. Egg Emperor
23. What I'm Made Of
24. Right There, Ride On*
25. Back 2 Back
26. Wrapped in Black
27. Crisis City
28. A New Venture
29. Vs. Egg Dragoon
30. Tropical Resort
31. Planet Wisp
32. Blossom Haze (Press Garden Zone Act 2)
33. Rogues Gallery (Mirage Saloon Zone Act 2)
34. Hi-Spec Robo Go! (Hard Boiled Heavy Boss)
35. Moonlight Battlefield (Aqua Road)
36. Battle with Metal Sonic (US Ver.)
37. Metropolitan Highway

And more.

*This song was in Brawl and Smash 4, but was taken out in Ultimate for some reason.

Cries in no Aqua Road

aside from that solid list

 

[Otoad64]

honestly imo the spirits are the only place Sonic is well represented.

Sonic's moveset is terrible.

There's no 2nd character.

Sure, he has 2 stages, but they're pretty much just Green Hill and Green Hill in the sky.

and the Music as Perkilator mentioned.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If I’m not mistaken, Sonic is WAY more popular in the West than in Japan. FF has equal worldwide popularity

 

[Cutie Gwen]

honestly imo the spirits are the only place Sonic is well represented.

Sonic's moveset is terrible.

There's no 2nd character.

Sure, he has 2 stages, but they're pretty much just Green Hill and Green Hill in the sky.

and the Music as Perkilator mentioned.

The songs only seem lackluster due to the composers having a huge bias to Mega Man and CastleVania and SNK going crazy, there's still a good level of variety and a solid number of songs

 

[CannonStreak]

If I’m not mistaken, Sonic is WAY more popular in the West than in Japan. FF has equal worldwide popularity

You are not mistaken about Sonic, actually.

 

[Guynamednelson]

There's no 2nd character

This wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if the first character actually had a decent moveset instead of .

 

[CannonStreak]

This wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if the first character actually had a decent moveset instead of .

Sad thing is, if there is a non-echo second Sonic character as DLC, they might have a better move set than Sonic.

 

[ahemtoday]

I'll give you stages and Spirits, but there's still tons of seemingly no-brainer songs that are absent:

1. Chemical Plant Zone
2. Casino Night Zone
3. Death Egg Robot
4. Palmtree Panic Present
5. Stardust Speedway (Bad Future) / Metal Sonic
6. Metallic Madness
7. Big Arms
8. Mushroom Hill Zone
9. Flying Battery Zone
10. Sky Sanctuary Zone
11. Doomsday Zone
12. Unknown from M.E.
13. Chaos 0, 2, 4
14. Run Through the Speed Highway
15. E.G.G.M.A.N.
16. That's the Way I Like It (for Metal Harbor)
17. Rhythm and Balance (for White Jungle)
18. For True Story
19. Supporting Me
20. Seaside Hill / Ocean Palace
21. Bullet Station
22. Egg Emperor
23. What I'm Made Of
24. Right There, Ride On*
25. Back 2 Back
26. Wrapped in Black
27. Crisis City
28. A New Venture
29. Vs. Egg Dragoon
30. Tropical Resort
31. Planet Wisp
32. Blossom Haze (Press Garden Zone Act 2)
33. Rogues Gallery (Mirage Saloon Zone Act 2)
34. Hi-Spec Robo Go! (Hard Boiled Heavy Boss)
35. Moonlight Battlefield (Aqua Road)
36. Battle with Metal Sonic (US Ver.)
37. Metropolitan Highway

And more.

*This song was in Brawl and Smash 4, but was taken out in Ultimate for some reason.

You're missing Hydrocity Zone, Can You Feel the Sunshine, My Sweet Passion, Welcome to Station Square, I Am (All of Me), Vela-Nova, Aquarium Park, and probably a bunch more.

 

[SharkLord]

With so many highly-regarded soundtracks, there's always going to be something missing. Songs are far and away the easiest gaps to fill. Kinda wish they'd just release some separate music packs.

But yeah, I don't think Nintendo would look at Sonic and go "Oh my, this is quite underrepresented!" Two stages, two ATs, lots of Spirits. Maybe that representation isn't the best, but the quantity is still decently high and it covers everything necessary. There isn't any gaping holes like with Final Fantasy, which had barely anything.

 

[Perkilator]

Cries in no Aqua Road

aside from that solid list

I did include Aqua Road, tho...?

 

[Otoad64]

This wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if the first character actually had a decent moveset instead of .

still would be, just not as bad

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I did include Aqua Road, tho...?

Oh now I see it oops

 

[SharkLord]

I don't think only one rep is necessarily a case of underrepresentation for third-parties, at least not yet. We have 13 third-party series now; Out of them, only three have a second fighter, and only one of those is an original character. If you're owned by Nintendo, having a second character is a luxury, not a right. It'll start feeling more necessary when Metal Gear and/or Mega Man get a second fighter, but we haven't reached the point where repeat third-parties are a regular occurrence yet.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Is Sega easy to work with when it comes to Sonic? I remember them having like a list of guidelines to what Sonic can and cannot do for Big Red Button while they were making Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric. Also I remember they lost a court case with the archie comics writer and now they can't have Shadow win against Sonic or something like that. I don't have citations so don't take my word for it.

 

[MooMew64]

Sonic's overall representation is fine, it's just got some questionable choices: Namely having a Lost World stage of all things to be the compliment to Green Hill Zone.

Music is...Fine. Disappointingly low on remixes but I'd probably chalk that up to what Cutie Gwen said: There was definitely some favoritism when it came to what franchises got remixes. (Looking at you, Mega Man and Castlevania, with your absurd number of songs!) This is a problem that plagues many franchises, though, not just Sonic. Wario has, like, so many good tracks that just get ignored but whatever.

Sonic's moveset has never been an issue to me. It reflects his abilities in the games just fine: I think the problem people take with it is probably more related to him being annoying to fight on quickplay lag, and yeah, I get that. However, that's not really a fault of the moveset, it's more of a fault of the online being so poorly made that it gives certain character archetypes like Sonic a perceived advantage when there's lag.

Spirits are kind of whatever: They're PNGs, and most of the fan favorites are there, so I don't think they're an issue, personally.

I'd love another Sonic character, but not because I think Sonic "needs" more content, just that I like Sonic and would like to see even more.

 

[blackghost]

Why is Ori a tier above the Knight? Why is the Knight a tier above Reimu and Shantae?
(Honestly, I misread Hollow Knight as Shovel Knight at first, and that would have made a bit more sense.)

recent popularity and sales puts ori above them. not to mention the mainstream acknowledgment and the backing of Microsoft. Riemu isnt even globally popular. the gap between hollow knight and ori is a lot closer than hollow knight vs riemu. ori also has already gotten a full sequel. hollow knight is closer to a souls 2d character action game while ori is an action platformer.

 

[Otoad64]

Is Sega easy to work with when it comes to Sonic? I remember them having like a list of guidelines to what Sonic can and cannot do for Big Red Button while they were making Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric. Also I remember they lost a court case with the archie comics writer and now they can't have Shadow win against Sonic or something like that. I don't have citations so don't take my word for it.

they have a bunch of mandates about how sonic can be portrayed, but to my knowledge it wouldn't effect smash bros. beyond making sure sonic doesn't cry and stuff like that

 

[Pillow]

With so many highly-regarded soundtracks, there's always going to be something missing. Songs are far and away the easiest gaps to fill. Kinda wish they'd just release some separate music packs.

But yeah, I don't think Nintendo would look at Sonic and go "Oh my, this is quite underrepresented!" Two stages, two ATs, lots of Spirits. Maybe that representation isn't the best, but the quantity is still decently high and it covers everything necessary. There isn't any gaping holes like with Final Fantasy, which had barely anything.

I don’t think Nintendo looks at dlc in terms of filling in gaps of representation. If anything, Sephiroth was the exception because 1. FF7 content was particularly lacking and 2. It’a ****ing Sephiroth. And it might not have had anything to do with filling in FF representation at all because, like I said, it’s ****ing Sephiroth. If another Sonic character does come then it’s likely it’s because they deserve it based on their own merits moreso than Nintendo filling a nebulous Sonic roster quota.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

they have a bunch of mandates about how sonic can be portrayed, but to my knowledge it wouldn't effect smash bros. beyond making sure sonic doesn't cry

We also know for a fact they're super ****ing strict on Shadow's portrayal so if he ever got in, it'd be the modern version who's just an asshole instead of the likeable version

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I don’t think Nintendo looks at dlc in terms of filling in gaps of representation. If anything, Sephiroth was the exception because 1. FF7 content was particularly lacking and 2. It’a ****ing Sephiroth. And it might not have had anything to do with filling in FF representation at all because, like I said, it’s ****ing Sephiroth. If another Sonic character does come then it’s likely it’s because they deserve it based on their own merits moreso than Nintendo filling a nebulous Sonic roster quota.

That and if Nintendo was concerned about general representation of Final Fantasy, we’d get a character that wasn’t from Final Fantasy 7 specifically as well as content from all the other main titles in the pack.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I kinda hope if Square gets a fourth character that they’d have content from non-FFVII in particular/DQ in general games. They don’t even have to be a FF character. Just gimme more of that glorious Square Enix content