Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[JOJONumber691]

Honestly, Crash’s Western Origin and Marketing overlap with Hayabusa kinda screws him over in the long run. Sucks for his fans, but I simply don’t see Crash this Pass.

 

[Pillow]

The best game in the Crash trilogy is still a worse platformer than Sonic '06, the worst Sonic game.

Fair point. My criticism is of the gameplay.

There is just no way anything could be worse than Sonic ‘06.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Honestly, Crash’s Western Origin and Marketing overlap with Hayabusa kinda screws him over in the long run. Sucks for his fans, but I simply don’t see Crash this Pass.

???

Overlap between Crash and Ninja Gaiden?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

???

Overlap between Crash and Ninja Gaiden?

They're both mostly western in appeal?

...I don't think even that's true.

 

[JOJONumber691]

???

Overlap between Crash and Ninja Gaiden?

I’m talking when it comes to genre, appeal, and moveset. Moveset wise both characters would probably be movement based characters, focused on similar concepts. They’ve both been Platformers and Action Games (Mind Over Mutant). And both their appeals are mostly Western in nature, but there’s a little bit of Japanese Appeal (mostly with Crash, but point still stands). Now, the main area Crash gets ****ed over is the relationship between Activision and Nintendo. Because, sure they did a Skylanders Collab... Five Years Ago. But that’s it. Meanwhile Crash’s Main Competition, Rayman and Hayabusa, have companies who directly made games with Nintendo. Ubisoft has Mario + Rabbids and Starlink essentially just being a Star Fox Game with Extra Steps; and Koei Tecmo has had consistent Nintendo Ties since the 80’s. Ryu Hayabusa is considered by many the Last “True” NES Icon left, and Koei Tecmo made four games for Nintendo, two of which are somewhat Canon! On top of Moveset, Leaks, Legacy, and basically everything, Hayabusa wins out. This isn’t even my bias conning into play, as I haven’t played a Ninja Gaiden Game, but I have done my research and can safely say Hayabusa is the most likely character at the moment.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I’m talking when it comes to genre, appeal, and moveset. Moveset wise both characters would probably be movement based characters, focused on similar concepts. They’ve both been Platformers and Action Games (Mind Over Mutant). And both their appeals are mostly Western in nature, but there’s a little bit of Japanese Appeal (mostly with Crash, but point still stands). Now, the main area Crash gets ****ed over is the relationship between Activision and Nintendo. Because, sure they did a Skylanders Collab... Five Years Ago. But that’s it. Meanwhile Crash’s Main Competition, Rayman and Hayabusa, have companies who directly made games with Nintendo. Ubisoft has Mario + Rabbids and Starlink essentially just being a Star Fox Game with Extra Steps; and Koei Tecmo has had consistent Nintendo Ties since the 80’s. Ryu Hayabusa is considered by many the Last “True” NES Icon left, and Koei Tecmo made four games for Nintendo, two of which are somewhat Canon! On top of Moveset, Leaks, Legacy, and basically everything, Hayabusa wins out. This isn’t even my bias conning into play, as I haven’t played a Ninja Gaiden Game, but I have done my research and can safely say Hayabusa is the most likely character at the moment.

If you think platformers, beat-em-ups and characters action games are all the same because they fall under the category of action games you might as well lump in shooters, bullet hells and rhythm games for the hell of it.

 

[Idon]

Look Ima be real with you

I could not name a more disparate pair of characters out there to compare than Ryu Hayabusa, Japanese-developed action game ninja extraordinaire, and Crash Bandicoot, Western-developed zany 3D platformer animal.

In a game with a DLC pass with Joker, Hero, and Byleth being together, I think it's safe to assume these two characters in particular have no bearing on each other...

 

[TechPowah]

When this pass alone went from fighting games with Min Min, to sandbox sims with Steve, to JRPGs with Sephiroth

I really don't think Crash Bandicoot and Ninja Gaiden have any worry of being redundant to each other

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually could get Crash and Ryu announced together in the same breath

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Moveset wise both characters would probably be movement based characters, focused on similar concepts.

Erm. Ninja Gaiden is a precision platformer like Castlevania. There is no fluidity there, and the emphasis is on precision and quick thinking, as the game is really hard. Meanwhile Crash is a top downish 3D platformer that comes with the fluid movement necessary for that, and literally beats you over the head with a 100% completion goal. They both could have basic movesets, but the focus is probably not going to be even remotely the same.

EDIT: Oops. Said precision twice. I don't think it even explained my point. Said point being that movement is heavily limited in the Ninja Gaiden series (at least for the platformers), so having a focus on movement wouldn't really make sense.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Ryu Hayabusa is considered by many the Last “True” NES Icon left

Many fools!

 

[Commander_Alph]

If we weren't cursed with just Hayabusa I rather pick Joe Musashi from Shinobi and Strider Hiryu from Strider as our old school ninja.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hot take: If you claim that a character is the last of x group, you're wrong. They either aren't the last or they don't belong in the group.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Hot take: If you claim that a character is the last of x group, you're wrong. They either aren't the last or they don't belong in the group.

Watch as they will gravitate toward another NES character after Hayabusa and says the same thing.

 

[JOJONumber691]

If you think platformers, beat-em-ups and characters action games are all the same because they fall under the category of action games you might as well lump in shooters, bullet hells and rhythm games for the hell of it.

I’m talking that Sakurai would probably reject Crash if Hayabusa was finalized. Sakurai said it himself that it’s not just Star Power you needs in order to get into Smash, you also need a compelling reason to add them moveset wise. For example:
Snake: Kojima begged. Both important, and brings in a unique concept for a Fighter, even if slightly outdated.
Sonic: Mario’s Rival whose Speed makes him unique by default, for better or for worse.
Mega Man: Requested, sure, but he’s also a Gaming Icon, and his origin’s gameplay makes him an easy 1-to-1 Translayof his Source Material.
PAC-MAN: He’s PAC-MAN, sure, but he’s also acts as the “weird“ character every Smash Game tends to have, whose weirdness is very hype... for some reason.
Ryu: Face of Fighting Games, sure, but his origin made it perfect for Sakurai to experiment with Command Inputs, it worked.
Cloud: Brings Limit, was Screwed over Music Wise, and is essentially an Anime Character lol.
Bayonetta: Barely Counts, but Nintendo probably chose her looking back sooooo..............
Simon and Richter: Castlevania is an easy Translation, an Icon of the NES, and has a unique take on the Zoner. Also the Ballot, being Konami’s Most Active IP, and also being requested since Brawl doesn’t hurt at all either.
Joker: Persona 5 made a HUGE Splash on the Modern Games Industry, Sakurai himself is a HUGE Fan of the Series, and deliberately Modern Additions to the Roster is usually something prioritized for Smash DLC.
Hero: Legacy Series, sure, but not only do they have the Single Worst Music Selection in ALL of Smash, but they also have a unique promotional value to Nintendo, especially since the Pack is mostly just DQ11S Content. Also Command Menu.
Banjo & Kazooie: Had Requests since 64, almost made it into Melee, Steve took Five Years, and had Direct Support from Phil Spencer himself. Also the Moveset has a uniquely Looney Toons Style to them, which in combination with N64 Animation Techniques and their Nintendo Connections, allowed them to get prioritized despite being of Western Origin.
Terry: Legacy Fighting Game Character whose Company is stupid generous (50 Songs is STILL Ridiculous to me), and has History and an Audience that no other fighter has, being both the South Asian, and the Latin American Audiences, giving them a moment to feel apart of the Celebration. Also being present as DLC in every major Fighting Game Nowadays doesn’t hurt at ALL!
Steve: It’s f’ing Minecraft! It’s Stupidly Good Marketing for both Partied, E X T R E M E L Y Unique, bridged the gap between Microsoft and Nintendo S I N G L E H A N D E D L Y , brings in a Unique World, with an Insanely unique gimmick, also did I already mention that it’s ing MINECRAFT! No you’re going to get special priority over tons of others despite being Western. Also Steve taking as long as he did is the main reason why Banjo is here so please thank him later!
Sephiroth: Japanese Fan Request with a Series underrepresented in Smash already, who was still screwed over Music Wise (Half the Composers were Square Alumni, three repeats, and No Chocobo Theme... again.), and essentially fixed a MAJOR Issue in Smash Ultimate’s Celebration angle. Also a More Cinematic Mid-Range Character with Unique Mechanic and Moves No Other Character can use also helps as well, I guess.
See what I mean? Every Third Party in Smash Ultimate has more than just Star Power that got them in, but also Importance to the Industry as a whole, being unique, having a unique world to come with, having something only YOU Can do, Having a Strong Nintendo Connection, and if not being easy enough to work with to counteract this downside (Konami, Microsoft, and ESPECIALLY SNK), and (with the exception of Microsoft) are all Eastern Developers. Yeah, Crash has overlap with Sonic and Banjo, is Western, and is owned by a Company that doesn’t have a proper Nintendo Connection to get passed Activision’s Greed. Rayman is screwed by literally having no Japanese Appeal and likely being able to cause the CERO Rating to Go up as well. And Ryu Hayabusa has literally EVERYTHING that makes a Third Party likely! He’s Important, has a HUGE Nintendo Connection, has a unique concept, Distinct World, being EXTREMELY Easy to work with, being Japanese, yeah he has literally ****ing EVERYTHING in his Favor at the moment. Yeah, can you see why me and many others think Hayabusa is as likely as he is at the moment? Rant. OVER! And yes, this took me over an hour to type, so yeah!

 

[DarthEnderX]

Watch as they will gravitate toward another NES character after Hayabusa and says the same thing.

Yes, that's correct.

 

[Golden Icarus]

While I don’t think Hayabusa is the last NES icon, he is definitely next in line. Ninja Gaiden is the clear follow up to Mega Man and Castlevania. Once he’s in though, I imagine Bill Rizer will pick up the “last NES icon” mantle.

 

[JOJONumber691]

While I don’t think Hayabusa is the last NES icon, he is definitely next in line. Ninja Gaiden is the clear follow up to Mega Man and Castlevania. Once he’s in though, I imagine Bill Rizer will pick up the “last NES icon” mantle.

Contra is inactive, but he could get lucky eventually

 

[Golden Icarus]

Contra is inactive, but he could get lucky eventually

But its legacy still stands. The anniversary collection that came out last year is enough indication of that. Plus, Mega Man and especially Banjo were on life support before being added in Smash.

 

[JOJONumber691]

But its legacy still stands. The anniversary collection that came out last year is enough indication of that. Plus, Mega Man and especially Banjo were on life support before being added in Smash.

True, but looking at Contra’s Appeal it absolutely ain’t happening this Pass unless Hayabusa somehow doesn’t make it in.

 

[ZelDan]

Everytime someone says Hayubasa is the last NES icon left, a Bill or lance loses one of their 30 lives.

Please think of the Bills and Lances.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Once he’s in though, I imagine Bill Rizer will pick up the “last NES icon” mantle.

Him, or Arthur or Kunio/Billy Lee.

Contra is inactive

Literally had a new game last year...

 

[Commander_Alph]

I like that almost every NES character reason to get in right now is because of legacy, I guess the older you get the more deserving you are in Smash (now where's my Atari character at)

 

[JOJONumber691]

Him, or Arthur or Kunio/Billy Lee.

Literally had a new game last year...

A Collection and a Bad Game. Still less active than Castlevania.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Him, or Arthur or Kunio/Billy Lee.

There's no way Arcsys choose effing River City when their popular flagship series like Guilty Gear and Blazblue still exists, active (except for Blazblue) and haven't had any representation yet in the game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

A Collection and a Bad Game. Still less active than Castlevania.

...no it's not. CV hasn't had a game since 2014.

There's no way Arcsys choose effing River City when their popular flagship series like Guilty Gear and Blazblue still exists, active (except for Blazblue) and haven't had any representation yet in the game.

It's cute you think ArcSys gets to pick.

If Sakurai says he wants classic Famicom star Kunio-kun in Smash, you'll give it to him, and be thankful.

 

[BlondeLombax]

This is the nice thing about having an underdog as your top pic. You never get into any flame wars because they’re generally not at odds with other characters for some dumb reason or another.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Many fools!
View attachment 300414

I'd honestly be okay with a fighter pass with just the characters here that aren't in Smash.

 

[Commander_Alph]

This is the nice thing about having an underdog as your top pic. You never get into any flame wars because they’re generally not at odds with other characters for some dumb reason or another.

Nah man, even if your pick is an underdog if your character came from the same company with that popular character you kinda automatically loses. You could wrestle your way to the top but everyone is already brainwashed and hard to give your reasoning to them.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'd honestly be okay with a fighter pass with just the characters here that aren't in Smash.

If we get ALL those characters, I'll even let you add Cortez.

 

[JOJONumber691]

...no it's not. CV hasn't had a game since 2014.

It's cute you think ArcSys gets to pick.

If Sakurai says he wants classic Famicom star Kunio-kun in Smash, you'll give it to him, and be thankful.

Castlevania still has a Netflix Series going 3 Seasons strong, which is more than every other Konami IP in the Last Decade!

 

[Commander_Alph]

It's cute you think ArcSys gets to pick.

If Sakurai says he wants classic Famicom star Kunio-kun in Smash, you'll give it to him, and be thankful.

Nah, your just really boastful.

Sakurai isn't that braindead, if there's a character that has many factor going with the than just "L E G A C Y" as their source of reasoning he will absolutely pick the bigger one.


Afterall, why would he or Nintendo pick that?

 

[Pillow]

This is the nice thing about having an underdog as your top pic. You never get into any flame wars because they’re generally not at odds with other characters for some dumb reason or another.

Me: I’d love to see [redacted] in Smash
Smash fans: And I took that personally

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sakurai isn't that braindead, if there's a character that has many factor going with the than just "L E G A C Y" as their source of reasoning he will absolutely pick the bigger one.

Clearly. That's why Smash has Mega Man but not Resident Evil, right?

 

[Golden Icarus]

I like that almost every NES character reason to get in right now is because of legacy, I guess the older you get the more deserving you are in Smash (now where's my Atari character at)

I mean the older a series is, the more games it likely has and the more time it has to build up a name for itself. Plus, having a presence on Nintendo’s first home console is something that Sakurai clearly values. Otherwise we wouldn’t have gotten Ice Climbers and Pit.

Games from the N64-Gamecube era seem to have it the worst. Sin & Punishment, Custom Robo, Golden Sun, etc. don’t have any modern presence to speak of, but they aren’t really associated with the classics either and I’m not sure if they’ll ever be.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Clearly. That's why Smash has Mega Man but not Resident Evil, right?

Mega Man used to be Capcom's highest priority game (evidence by many spin-offs with that said spin-off also as popular as the original (mainly just Megaman X) and even an anniversary that has been awaited by Capcom fans for so long) alongside Resident Evil and DMC, it's not that hard than naming a game from studio like Arcsys just because River City Girls exist recently when the studio is 2x smaller than Capcom, so expecting Capcom to have more than 2 series that is popular.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Mega Man used to be Capcom's highest priority game (evidence by many spin-offs with that said spin-off also as popular as the original (mainly just Megaman X) and even an anniversary that has been awaited by Capcom fans for so long) alongside Resident Evil and DMC

Neat. Which of those excuses makes your original statement any less incorrect?

Mega Man was the "LEGACY". Resident Evil was the bigger series. Sakurai went with Mega Man. So Sakurai did not absolutely pick the one you said he would.

Not to mention Pac-Man getting in before...well, any current Namco Bandai franchise.

it's not that hard than naming a game from studio like Arcsys just because River City Girls exist recently when the studio is 2x smaller than Capcom.

I mean, I'm technically naming it because the Kunio-kun franchise had ELEVEN games on the Famicom. I'm not sure, but I think it's probably the most prolific series on the console.

 

[Idon]

I think it's clear why Hayabusa has more discussion revolving around him than his NES peers. Hayabusa has the benefit of 2 well known "series" across multiple generations while being the face of the Team Ninja division of Koei Tecmo games. Both the division and the company as a whole (especially with Omega Force's musou spinoffs) are really REALLY sucessful. With interviews with the devs, crossovers with musous, being a main character in their fighting game DoA, and multiple refrerences in their new hit action franchise Nioh, Team Ninja clearly have a large amount of respect and reverence for the character.

I really can't say that same level of notoriety or dedication to a single character exists for almost any other game such as Contra, Double Dragon, River City Ransom, Battletoads or what have you.

Personally speaking, Ryu Hayabusa is probably the most "oh duh, obviously" character they could pick since Megaman.
Which is why he's not gonna happen and they'll pick one of the aforemented smaller series.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Neat. Which of those excuses makes your original statement any less incorrect?

I mean, I'm technically naming it because the Kunio-kun franchise had ELEVEN games on the Famicom. I'm not sure, but I think it's probably the most prolific series on the console.

"Eleven games on Famicom" pretty ironic to hear that from a person who is against one sided presence especially a series prominent in Japan. Good job applying your double standard.

And also, what's your excuse on putting Mega Man on the same level as River City, you really have to know your place as Mega Man has more game released overseas.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I’m talking that Sakurai would probably reject Crash if Hayabusa was finalized. Sakurai said it himself that it’s not just Star Power you needs in order to get into Smash, you also need a compelling reason to add them moveset wise. For example:
Snake: Kojima begged. Both important, and brings in a unique concept for a Fighter, even if slightly outdated.
Sonic: Mario’s Rival whose Speed makes him unique by default, for better or for worse.
Mega Man: Requested, sure, but he’s also a Gaming Icon, and his origin’s gameplay makes him an easy 1-to-1 Translayof his Source Material.
PAC-MAN: He’s PAC-MAN, sure, but he’s also acts as the “weird“ character every Smash Game tends to have, whose weirdness is very hype... for some reason.
Ryu: Face of Fighting Games, sure, but his origin made it perfect for Sakurai to experiment with Command Inputs, it worked.
Cloud: Brings Limit, was Screwed over Music Wise, and is essentially an Anime Character lol.
Bayonetta: Barely Counts, but Nintendo probably chose her looking back sooooo..............
Simon and Richter: Castlevania is an easy Translation, an Icon of the NES, and has a unique take on the Zoner. Also the Ballot, being Konami’s Most Active IP, and also being requested since Brawl doesn’t hurt at all either.
Joker: Persona 5 made a HUGE Splash on the Modern Games Industry, Sakurai himself is a HUGE Fan of the Series, and deliberately Modern Additions to the Roster is usually something prioritized for Smash DLC.
Hero: Legacy Series, sure, but not only do they have the Single Worst Music Selection in ALL of Smash, but they also have a unique promotional value to Nintendo, especially since the Pack is mostly just DQ11S Content. Also Command Menu.
Banjo & Kazooie: Had Requests since 64, almost made it into Melee, Steve took Five Years, and had Direct Support from Phil Spencer himself. Also the Moveset has a uniquely Looney Toons Style to them, which in combination with N64 Animation Techniques and their Nintendo Connections, allowed them to get prioritized despite being of Western Origin.
Terry: Legacy Fighting Game Character whose Company is stupid generous (50 Songs is STILL Ridiculous to me), and has History and an Audience that no other fighter has, being both the South Asian, and the Latin American Audiences, giving them a moment to feel apart of the Celebration. Also being present as DLC in every major Fighting Game Nowadays doesn’t hurt at ALL!
Steve: It’s f’ing Minecraft! It’s Stupidly Good Marketing for both Partied, E X T R E M E L Y Unique, bridged the gap between Microsoft and Nintendo S I N G L E H A N D E D L Y , brings in a Unique World, with an Insanely unique gimmick, also did I already mention that it’s ing MINECRAFT! No you’re going to get special priority over tons of others despite being Western. Also Steve taking as long as he did is the main reason why Banjo is here so please thank him later!
Sephiroth: Japanese Fan Request with a Series underrepresented in Smash already, who was still screwed over Music Wise (Half the Composers were Square Alumni, three repeats, and No Chocobo Theme... again.), and essentially fixed a MAJOR Issue in Smash Ultimate’s Celebration angle. Also a More Cinematic Mid-Range Character with Unique Mechanic and Moves No Other Character can use also helps as well, I guess.
See what I mean? Every Third Party in Smash Ultimate has more than just Star Power that got them in, but also Importance to the Industry as a whole, being unique, having a unique world to come with, having something only YOU Can do, Having a Strong Nintendo Connection, and if not being easy enough to work with to counteract this downside (Konami, Microsoft, and ESPECIALLY SNK), and (with the exception of Microsoft) are all Eastern Developers. Yeah, Crash has overlap with Sonic and Banjo, is Western, and is owned by a Company that doesn’t have a proper Nintendo Connection to get passed Activision’s Greed. Rayman is screwed by literally having no Japanese Appeal and likely being able to cause the CERO Rating to Go up as well. And Ryu Hayabusa has literally EVERYTHING that makes a Third Party likely! He’s Important, has a HUGE Nintendo Connection, has a unique concept, Distinct World, being EXTREMELY Easy to work with, being Japanese, yeah he has literally ****ing EVERYTHING in his Favor at the moment. Yeah, can you see why me and many others think Hayabusa is as likely as he is at the moment? Rant. OVER! And yes, this took me over an hour to type, so yeah!

The problem with this argument is that it does nothing to explain why Crash and Ryu wouldn't both be added since 1, Crash also fits most of these criteria, and 2, the criteria is for looking at characters in a vacuum so it doesn't have anything to do with the claim in the first place.

EDIT: I should note that I did notice the reasons given for why Crash might not be too likely, but they also don't have anything to do with Ryu, and thus don't support your claim either.

Bayonetta: Barely Counts, but Nintendo probably chose her looking back sooooo..............

Nintendo also chose all of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's DLC, so if Nintendo doing the picking changes the rules then we're really just looking at Snake, Sonic, Mega Man, PAC-Man, Ryu, Cloud, Simon, Richter, and Ken here.

EDIT EDIT: This sounds like a nitpick, but it does mean that both Crash and Ryu would be Nintendo picks, and thus would be picked under different criteria.

Rayman is screwed by literally having no Japanese Appeal and likely being able to cause the CERO Rating to Go up as well.

...Why? At first I thought it might be the whole limbless thing, but if that were true then he probably wouldn't have been a trophy or a Spirit.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think a lot of Ryu's claim to fame is because of the notion of Koei Tecmo being a really close partner to Nintendo, and thus warranting a character spot in Smash Bros., and Ryu is probably their most recognizable character.