Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[ChunkySlugger72]

You mean like how Shadow had a lot going for him bring an Echo despite the fan demand?

Seems folks hadn't learned from that apparently.

Shadow isn't even the main character of his own franchise he can't compare to a protagonist like Crash Bandicoot, Sonic takes priority and he's already a returning veteran of the Smash series, for whatever reason 2nd 3rd party newcomers are barely a thing, A more comparable candidate would have to be Rayman.

Coming from someone who once thought Crash was a lock. You guys are just setting yourselves up for disappointment.

No 3rd party is an absolute lock ,But there's a reason some characters are viewed as frontrunners more so than others because they just check off a lot more boxes that many view are essential for joining Smash judging by "Most" past 3rd party newcomers.

Crash Bandicoot just happens to be one of them and whether people like him or not, You gotta admit Crash has as a lot going for him now and makes a ton of sense for a game like Super Smash Bros.

Were aware thay there's a chance we'll strike out, But were not afraid to admit it that's the thing about speculation no one knows who's gonna make the cut.

Sometimes you just have to go with your gut and if I had to make win or take all bet or if someone pointed a gun to my head and told me to get at least 1 correct of the last 3 slots then I'm going with Crash Bandicoot.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Shadow isn't even the main character of his own franchise, Sonic takes priority and he's already a returning veteran of the Smash series, for whatever reason 2nd 3rd party newcomers are barely a thing, A more comparable candidate would have to be Rayman.

You are really missing the point. Shadow had a lot going for him as a base game echo, popularity, ease of creation, his series being massive, and not being shown as an assist.
The point is that just because a character has a lot going for them, doesn’t mean they are a lock or that anyone should get their hopes up.

 

[Pillow]

Chrono Trigger Remake with Dragon Ball FghterZ graphics = transcendence.

They'e bad. And I've beaten Ninja Gaiden, Ghosts 'N Goblins and Battletoads(for the record, only 2 of those are good).

Yeah, Ghosts 'N Goblins was pretty bad.

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

Personal opinion: I think people are substantially overstating the likelihood of getting any more "repeat" 3rd party characters in the vein of Sephiroth where we already have a playable character from their series and get another. I seriously feel that Sephiroth's DLC pack was as much about him as it was about plugging the substantial gaps in the Final Fantasy content that was in Ultimate on launch. While I obviously can't/wouldn't rule out folks like Eggman, Chun-Li, etc., I don't know that any other 3rd party in Smash had such an obvious and substantial void of content in need of fleshing out. Certainly you could scrounge up enough content to pack with such a character, but they don't seem nearly as necessary.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You gotta admit Crash has as a lot going for him now

That doesn't mean there can't be points against him, such as each dev cycle having only two "mega-hype" reveals and Sephiroth being the second one for FP2.

 

[SharkLord]

Personal opinion: I think people are substantially overstating the likelihood of getting any more "repeat" 3rd party characters in the vein of Sephiroth where we already have a playable character from their series and get another. I seriously feel that Sephiroth's DLC pack was as much about him as it was about plugging the substantial gaps in the Final Fantasy content that was in Ultimate on launch. While I obviously can't/wouldn't rule out folks like Eggman, Chun-Li, etc., I don't know that any other 3rd party in Smash had such an obvious and substantial void of content in need of fleshing out. Certainly you could scrounge up enough content to pack with such a character, but they don't seem nearly as necessary.

Yeah, I think we're latching on to character similar to the most recent again. We thought there'd be more recent first-parties and Spirit promotions after Min Min, but neither came to be. After Steve we went for general recent characters like Jonesy, but Sephiroth shoved the releases back a couple decades. Now we're expecting more big picks and repeats, but I think at least one of those is gonna be subverted by the next character.

 

[BlondeLombax]

They'e bad. And I've beaten Ninja Gaiden, Ghosts 'N Goblins and Battletoads(for the record, only 2 of those are good).

Anyone who says they're good is someone who never played any other platformer before the Crash games.

The Crash games were some Bubsy-level dog****. And without Sony's marketing campaign brainwashing a generation of idiot kids into thinking he was Mario's rival, he'd be remembered about as fondly as Bubsy.

As a big 3D platformer fan, all I can say is this; this is a hot take, many people disagree including me, and you're on your own. Good luck.

 

[Lionfranky]

I think the problem with Master Chief in speculation is... Y'know...

Steve didn't bring any other Microsoft contents. Only from Minecraft. Isn't it bit fishy that both Banjo and Steve didn't bring extra Microsoft contents?
In term of business sense, what's so awkward or bad about the 3rd party company double dipping? Wouldn't that rather make decision-making much easier? Minecraft and Halo have drastically different audience. I doubt casual players will give much damn about which company characters are from. "Oh man another character from Microsoft again?" I highly doubt that would be how most people would think.

We all thought a character from the 3rd party franchise that was already represented in Smash was super unlikely. See where we are at now.

 

[Idon]

Personal opinion: I think people are substantially overstating the likelihood of getting any more "repeat" 3rd party characters in the vein of Sephiroth where we already have a playable character from their series and get another. I seriously feel that Sephiroth's DLC pack was as much about him as it was about plugging the substantial gaps in the Final Fantasy content that was in Ultimate on launch. While I obviously can't/wouldn't rule out folks like Eggman, Chun-Li, etc., I don't know that any other 3rd party in Smash had such an obvious and substantial void of content in need of fleshing out. Certainly you could scrounge up enough content to pack with such a character, but they don't seem nearly as necessary.

Persona not coming with Shin Megami Tensei content clearly means it's coming later...right?

right?

 

[Pillow]

Persona not coming with Shin Megami Tensei content clearly means it's coming later...right?

right?

View attachment 300411

Hey buddy, of course it is.

 

[SharkLord]

Steve didn't bring any other Microsoft contents. Only from Minecraft. Isn't it bit fishy that both Banjo and Steve didn't bring extra Microsoft contents?
In term of business sense, what's so awkward or bad about the 3rd party company double dipping? Wouldn't that rather make decision-making much easier? Minecraft and Halo have drastically different audience. I doubt casual players will give much damn about which company characters are from. "Oh man another character from Microsoft again?" I highly doubt that would be how most people would think.

We all thought a character from the 3rd party franchise that was already represented in Smash was super unlikely. See where we are at now.

Mainly I was referring to why Master Chief's dropped off in the speculation cycle. So far companies have only gotten one fighter per round (Re: Base game and DLC waves), most people aren't expecting a double-dip, Microsoft got a fighter, and so people aren't expecting another Microsoft fighter.

Though, I will point out that Steve's negotiations dated back to 2015, and Banjo must've been negotiated for alongside Steve. Negotiation-wise, one could say we already got a double-dip with Microsoft.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Steve didn't bring any other Microsoft contents. Only from Minecraft. Isn't it bit fishy that both Banjo and Steve didn't bring extra Microsoft contents?
In term of business sense, what's so awkward or bad about the 3rd party company double dipping? Wouldn't that rather make decision-making much easier? Minecraft and Halo have drastically different audience. I doubt casual players will give much damn about which company characters are from. "Oh man another character from Microsoft again?" I highly doubt that would be how most people would think.

We all thought a character from the 3rd party franchise that was already represented in Smash was super unlikely. See where we are at now.

The problem is your making an assumption that the precedent isn’t a thing simply because other precedents have been shot down.
Banjo seems to have paved the way for Minecraft, Halo has always been an Xbox or PC thing, putting Master Chief on a Nintendo platform might be too much for Microsoft.
Like it or not, in the entirety of Smash DLC, there hasn’t been any instances of Nintendo double dipping at all.
And yes, we hadn’t gotten a Spirit or a Second completely unique 3rd Party Character before Min Min and Sephiroth, but those were for the game. It relied on what the game company wanted for each series.
Double dipping is different, as it depends on how Nintendo wants to handle business. And given Smash 4, Ultimate, and now half of FP2, Double dipping companies in Smash on same batch of DLC doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

 

[Lionfranky]

Mainly I was referring to why Master Chief's dropped off in the speculation cycle. So far companies have only gotten one fighter per round (Re: Base game and DLC waves), most people aren't expecting a double-dip, Microsoft got a fighter, and so people aren't expecting another Microsoft fighter.

Though, I will point out that Steve's negotiations dated back to 2015, and Banjo must've been negotiated for alongside Steve. Negotiation-wise, one could say we already got a double-dip with Microsoft.

Just like Sephiroth wasn't on anyone's radar.

We don't know how long each character has been on the table until they are revealed. There has been rumor of MCC Switch port. King Zell said news of that magnitude would be only for event like Nintendo General Direct. There will be General Direct from what I've heard. So, we will see.

The problem is your making an assumption that the precedent isn’t a thing simply because other precedents have been shot down.
Banjo seems to have paved the way for Minecraft, Halo has always been an Xbox or PC thing, putting Master Chief on a Nintendo platform might be too much for Microsoft.
Like it or not, in the entirety of Smash DLC, there hasn’t been any instances of Nintendo double dipping at all.
And yes, we hadn’t gotten a Spirit or a Second completely unique 3rd Party Character before Min Min and Sephiroth, but those were for the game. It relied on what the game company wanted for each series.
Double dipping is different, as it depends on how Nintendo wants to handle business. And given Smash 4, Ultimate, and now half of FP2, Double dipping companies in Smash on same batch of DLC doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

Actually, it was Minecraft that paved the way. But, Microsoft allowed Rare to develop games on GBA, DS back in day before Minecraft was a thing.

 

[Pillow]

The problem is your making an assumption that the precedent isn’t a thing simply because other precedents have been shot down.
Banjo seems to have paved the way for Minecraft, Halo has always been an Xbox or PC thing, putting Master Chief on a Nintendo platform might be too much for Microsoft.
Like it or not, in the entirety of Smash DLC, there hasn’t been any instances of Nintendo double dipping at all.
And yes, we hadn’t gotten a Spirit or a Second completely unique 3rd Party Character before Min Min and Sephiroth, but those were for the game. It relied on what the game company wanted for each series.
Double dipping is different, as it depends on how Nintendo wants to handle business. And given Smash 4, Ultimate, and now half of FP2, Double dipping companies in Smash on same batch of DLC doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

There's only been 2 sets of complete though. It's really not enough to set precedence, imo. Even if Chief or another SE character doesn't show up in pass 2 I still wouldn't say this sets a rule for potential future DLC / smash games. The only thing I would confidently say we're not getting is another SNK characters just because Terry brought so much content not from just his game, but from all SNK games.

 

[SharkLord]

Just like Sephiroth wasn't on anyone's radar.

We don't know how long each character has been on the table until they are revealed. There has been rumor of MCC Switch port. King Zell said news of that magnitude would be only for event like Nintendo General Direct. There will be General Direct from what I've heard. So, we will see.

When was this, and how long ago? I can't say I can put much stock into rumors unless I see it for myself and know it has stuff going for it. If we believed all leaks, we'd be running around like headless chickens.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Steve didn't bring any other Microsoft contents. Only from Minecraft. Isn't it bit fishy that both Banjo and Steve didn't bring extra Microsoft contents?
In term of business sense, what's so awkward or bad about the 3rd party company double dipping? Wouldn't that rather make decision-making much easier? Minecraft and Halo have drastically different audience. I doubt casual players will give much damn about which company characters are from. "Oh man another character from Microsoft again?" I highly doubt that would be how most people would think.

We all thought a character from the 3rd party franchise that was already represented in Smash was super unlikely. See where we are at now.

In the case of third parties, Nintendo wants to make deals with as many businesses as possible. If we get multiple Microsoft or Squenix reps, there's less room to work with as many companies as possible.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Just like Sephiroth wasn't on anyone's radar.

We don't know how long each character has been on the table until they are revealed. There has been rumor of MCC Switch port. King Zell said news of that magnitude would be only for event like Nintendo General Direct. There will be General Direct from what I've heard. So, we will see.

[Citation needed]

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

There's only been 2 sets of complete though. It's really not enough to set precedence, imo. Even if Chief or another SE character doesn't show up in pass 2 I still wouldn't say this sets a rule for potential future DLC / smash games.

Then how many is enough? We got 2, split across 2 games. And the third seems to be following up on it. Consider this, why were Steve and Sephiroth not part of FP1 with Hero and Banjo respectively? Why hold them off for FP2? Thats another 2 instances for you of Nintendo purposely choosing not to bunch companies at once.

 

[Pillow]

Then how many is enough? We got 2, split across 2 games. And the second seems to be following up on it. Consider this, why were Steve and Sephiroth not part of FP1 with Hero and Banjo respectively? Why hold them off for FP2? Thats another 2 instances for you of Nintendo purposely choosing not to bunch companies at once.

But what would be the reasoning here? Why would Nintendo specifically try to choose characters from various companies, instead of just trying to pick sets of characters they think would fit into the game best / sell well, that just happen to be from different companies? Perhaps they did settle on the characters earlier and decide they wanted to spread them out, but that wouldn't prevent another SE or Microsoft character from showing up within the same pass as we still have 3 characters left.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

The Crash games were some Bubsy-level dog****. And without Sony's marketing campaign brainwashing a generation of idiot kids into thinking he was Mario's rival, he'd be remembered about as fondly as Bubsy

I mean Sony really didn't do that much different with Crash Bandicoot and the Playstation than what Sega did the with Sonic the Hedgehog and the Genesis back in the early 90's when they were constantly comparing Sonic to Mario and each others consoles in their "Genesis does what Nintendon't" commercials.

 

[Lionfranky]

When was this, and how long ago? I can't say I can put much stock into rumors unless I see it for myself and know it has stuff going for it. If we believed all leaks, we'd be running around like headless chickens.

King Zell Hints That Halo Could Come To Nintendo Switch In The Future

Earlier this year, King Zell, also known as C. Tsubasa, leaked many games before they were officially announced, such as The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild 2 and the first Pokemon Direct of 20…

nintendosoup.com

Vergen's Minecraft hint took awhile to come true.

In the case of third parties, Nintendo wants to make deals with as many businesses as possible. If we get multiple Microsoft or Squenix reps, there's less room to work with as many companies as possible.

Then, why choose Sephiroth? They could've gone for different companies... even among Japanese ones like Level 5, Tecmo instead of another Square Enix. Hell, even among Square Enix, they could've gone for Lara Croft who is bigger deal than Sephiroth... solidifying relationship with Crystal Dynamics.

[Citation needed]

In b4, you say it's just rumor, I said from what I heard, not concrete.

 

[SharkLord]

But what would be the reasoning here? Why would Nintendo specifically try to choose characters from various companies, instead of just trying to pick sets of characters they think would fit into the game best / sell well, that just happen to be from different companies? Perhaps they did settle on the characters earlier and decide they wanted to spread them out, but that wouldn't prevent another SE or Microsoft character from showing up within the same pass as we still have 3 characters left.

Solidify/strengthen relationships with more companies, perhaps? By getting more hands on-deck with a big game like Smash, Nintendo could ensure more companies stay by their side and produce more games for their system. Obviously, they're not going to be all buddy-buddy just because of Smash, but I think it would at least help out with the relations a little.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

But what would be the reasoning here? Why would Nintendo specifically try to choose characters from various companies, instead of just trying to pick sets of characters they think would fit into the game best / sell well, that just happen to be from different companies? Perhaps they did settle on the characters earlier and decide they wanted to spread them out, but that wouldn't prevent another SE or Microsoft character from showing up within the same pass as we still have 3 characters left.

Could be for any reason. Maybe Nintendo sees Smash as an opportunity to reach out to other companies, and sets a rule at 1 per DLC. That would explain Microsoft and Square being the only returning companies so far, as they allow for other content.
Also, pretty sure Sakurai said something along the lines of “Nintendo gives me names and I pick them” so maybe this is his decision to not double dip per pass.
There could be any motive out there, we don’t know. What we do know, is that it hasn’t happened yet and works differently from all other “fan rules.”

 

[Pillow]

Solidify/strengthen relationships with more companies, perhaps? By getting more hands on-deck with a big game like Smash, Nintendo could ensure more companies stay by their side and produce more games for their system. Obviously, they're not going to be all buddy-buddy just because of Smash, but I think it would at least help out with the relations a little.

It's the opposite, these characters are able to come to Smash because of existing good relations between Nintendo and those respective companies. The double dipping companies thing seems like such an arbitrary rule to me, I don't see why Nintendo would choose to limit themselves like this.

 

[SharkLord]

King Zell Hints That Halo Could Come To Nintendo Switch In The Future

Earlier this year, King Zell, also known as C. Tsubasa, leaked many games before they were officially announced, such as The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild 2 and the first Pokemon Direct of 20…

nintendosoup.com

Vergen's Minecraft hint took awhile to come true.

I don't think we can just go "One leak happened this way, so others can too!" I'll need more instances of that before I can really believe that. And didn't Verge get all the details wrong?

In b4, you say it's just rumor, I said from what I heard, not concrete.

Direct Archive updates

GameRant

Not to be rude, but this rumor doesn't seem like it has much foundation to stand on.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Chrono Trigger Remake with Dragon Ball FighterZ graphics = transcendence.

I just wanna see every franchise ever get its own ArcSys fighting game. Chrono, Persona 5, One Piece, Yakuza, Batman. I'd buy 'em all.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I just wanna see every franchise ever get its own ArcSys fighting game. Chrono, Persona 5, One Piece, Yakuza, Batman. I'd buy 'em all.

I want a Fast Food fighting game. Gonna show everybody that you can’t out pizza the hut.

 

[Lionfranky]

I don't think we can just go "One leak happened this way, so others can too!" I'll need more instances of that before I can really believe that. And didn't Verge get all the details wrong?

Vergen got most of stuff right. Sames goes for King Zell, too. He also leaked pretty much everything about last Direct before its reveal. That's why people believe he wasn't trolling.

 

[Will]

Halo on Switch? I mean, it's not gonna mean Chief is in Smash, but it'd certainly be ****ing bonkers cool if it did.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, Ghosts 'N Goblins was pretty bad.

I was referring to Battletoads, but actually, yeah. GnG doesn't get good till Ghouls 'N Ghosts/Super Ghouls 'N Ghosts.

As a big 3D platformer fan, all I can say is this; this is a hot take, many people disagree including me

That's okay. Some people are just born to be wrong.

I mean Sony really didn't do that much different with Crash Bandicoot and the Playstation than what Sega did the with Sonic the Hedgehog and the Genesis back in the early 90's when they were constantly comparing Sonic to Mario and each others consoles in their "Genesis does what Nintendon't" commercials.

Agreed. The difference is, Sega did it with some pretty good games. Sony did it with bad games and hoped people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Many didn't.

I just wanna see every franchise ever get its own ArcSys fighting game. Chrono, Persona 5, One Piece, Yakuza, Batman. I'd buy 'em all.

I didn't mean for ArcSys to literally make a Chrono fighter. I meant for SE to rip off that art style for CT Remake.

An ArcSys One Piece game though...hnnnnnngh!

 

[BlondeLombax]

The difference is, Sega did it with some pretty good games. Sony did it with bad games and hoped people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Many didn't.

Y'know, maybe if you weren't so condescending about it, you'd probably find a lot more people who would agree with you.

 

[Golden Icarus]

I didn't mean for ArcSys to literally make a Chrono fighter. I meant for SE to rip off that art style for CT Remake.

I knew what you meant, and I’m super on board with that idea as well. But after ArcSys did such a great job with Persona 4 Arena, I wanna see other JRPGs get their own fighting games, too. Crono has enough great characters to make a solid roster.

Halo on Switch? I mean, it's not gonna mean Chief is in Smash, but it'd certainly be ****ing bonkers cool if it did.

Even if it doesn’t get him in Smash, he would definitely get a whole lot more supporters.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Ah yes M-09 would be sick, also makes me wonder how cool would it be if they tried other cancelled nintendo game characters like the protag of Raven Blade and the Cat and Mouse from Catroots

I'd never heard of those two games before now so thank you for bringing those up because I'm a sucker for useless gaming trivia

 

[osby]

That's okay. Some people are just born to be wrong.

Agreed. The difference is, Sega did it with some pretty good games. Sony did it with bad games and hoped people wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Many didn't.

You know acting like an asshole for no reason doesn't make your opinions inherently superior, right?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Y'know, maybe if you weren't so condescending about it, you'd probably find a lot more people who would agree with you.

So if I'd said it nicely, you'd have gone, "Wait, the Crash games are BAD? Why didn't anyone tell me?!" and dropped your Crash support? I'm sure.

Also, people that think the Crash games are bad aren't hard to come by(except in England for some reason...)

 

[BlondeLombax]

You know acting like an asshole for no reason doesn't make your opinions inherently superior, right?

Agreed. The first game might be a bit rough around the edges, but franchises with bumbly first steps are as certain as death & taxes. Cortex Strikes Back & Warped are generally excellent practices in muscle memory with a generous, steady learning curve that causes the player to learn from their own mistakes, with a cast of charming and hilarious characters, coupled with a fantastically catchy and varied soundtrack. I say this as someone who more or less dedicates his life to Nintendo (not to the point of obsession, mind you, I have a life of my own to worry about).

 

[DarthEnderX]

The best game in the Crash trilogy is still a worse platformer than Sonic '06, the worst Sonic game.

with a cast of charming and hilarious characters

Fair point. My criticism is of the gameplay.

 

[GoodGrief741]

So if I'd said it nicely, you'd have gone, "Wait, the Crash games are BAD? Why didn't anyone tell me?!" and dropped your Crash support? I'm sure.

Probably not but you stand to gain nothing by being abrasive either.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Pretty sure if the Crash games were objectively bad we wouldn't have Crash Bandicoot 4: It's About Time!; Either the originals wouldn't have sold and the remake trilogy wouldn't have been made, or the remake trilogy would have been panned and Activision would have dropped the IP.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Probably not but you stand to gain nothing by being abrasive either.

There's nothing to "gain" either way. We're not gonna march on Nintendo HQ and oust Sakurai if I get enough support.

I think those games suck and his popularity comes from a marketing campaign. And I'm saying what I think.

Pretty sure if the Crash games were objectively bad we wouldn't have Crash Bandicoot 4

The fact There were new Bubsy games in 2017 and 2019 is proof that isn't true.