Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Speed Weed]

Waluigi likes to do a lot of things. One of the most recent things is rapping about why he ain't in Smash yet.

But if Michael Jackson was a video game character, he'd have a sick moveset. Just play Moonwalker on the Genesis/Mega Drive.

Honestly, in the alternate universe where Michael Jackson wasn't a real person and instead debuted in Moonwalker, I'd pop the **** off for him in Smash

 

[Otoad64]

Nope we’re adding THAT ONE INFAMOUS SONG (YOU KNOW THE ONE) FROM CHRONICLES AND YOU WILL LIKE IT.

 

[7NATOR]

Chronicles might have Legendary bad Music, but It would be a much better addition than Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric Music, which is just kind of bland

 

[Otoad64]

Chronicles might have Legendary bad Music, but It would be a much better addition than Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric Music, which is just kind of bland

at least you can listen to that soundtrack without your ears bleeding

 

[Ivander]

Unrelated topic, but if Songs were added as smash DLC without needing to be tied to characters/costumes, what music would you guys like to see come to Smash?

• More Donkey Kong Country music.
• More Pokemon music from Generation 2, 3, 5 and 7, especially Rocket's theme from Gold & Silver, the Hoenn Legendary battle theme from Ruby & Sapphire and the Elite 4 Battle Theme, Team Plasma Battle Theme and N's Final battle from Black & White.
• Porky Means Business mainly, but more Earthbound battle music would be great too.
• Alight and Road Taken from FEFates, as well as more Fire Emblem tracks from the SNES, GBA and Radiance games.
• More Kid Icarus Uprising tracks.
• Frickin' WARIO LAND MUSIC and not just the lone track from Shake It! Seriously, what I would give for more music from the Wario Land games.
• Some of the Punch Out! theme variants of the main fight theme from the Wii game, like Glass Joe's version, Soda Popinski's version and whatnot.
• Xenoblade X music, especially Uncontrollable.
• More Golden Sun music, especially Venus Lighthouse and Saturos' battle theme.
• Some Custom Robo music, including Heaven from Battle Revolution.
• Risk One's Neck from Sin & Punishment and Escape from S&P Star Successor.
• Some Advance Wars tracks, like Andy's theme, Jake's theme, Will's theme, Hawke's theme, etc.
• Some music from The Last Story.
• Some more Culdcept music from both the PS2/3DS version and Revolt.
• More Sonic music. Alot More Sonic music. Especially Chemical Plant.
• Some music from the other Megaman games, like the X & Zero series, Legends series, ZX games, Battle Network series and Star Force series.
• More Castlevania music, especially Demon Castle Pinnacle, Subterranean Hell and The Wolf Revealed.
• A couple Virtua Fighter tracks to go with the Jacky and Akira costumes.
• Venice Rooftops to go with Altair's costume(I'm aware Venice Rooftops is AC2 and Altair is AC1)
• Either a remix of the main Bomberman music from the NES version or the normal battle theme from Super Bomberman R to go with the Bomberman costume.
• Beware the Forest's Mushrooms to go with the Geno costume.
• A track from Tower of Duraga to go with Gil's costume.
• A remix of the Ganbare Goemon music track for Goemon's costume.
• One of Heihachi's themes for Heihachi's costume.
• A track from Fallout for Vault Boy's costume.
• A track from No More Heroes for Travis' costume.
• A track from the Rayman series, probably from Origins or Legends.
• A track from Shantae.
• Strike the Earth! Plains of Passage and Fighting with All of our Might from Shovel Knight.
• Everybody Falls from Fall Guys.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think Sora, Lara Croft & even Geno are likely to get in before Chrono. I think fans Chrono fans over estimate how iconic that series is, simply because it is well liked.

I personally doubt Geno will ever have a shot at another Smash game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Oh, also that one Tekken 7 banger heard with heihachi’s costume I wanna hear that too

 

[7NATOR]

at least you can listen to that soundtrack without your ears bleeding

but that's the point. the Soundtrack will make you stronger, as if you can Smash and listen to Chronicles Soundtrack, you'll be a better player in no Time

Oh, also that one Tekken 7 banger heard with heihachi’s costume I wanna hear that too

The song was from Tekken 6, and it's the Character select theme of that game. But honestly you can't go wrong with any track from Tekken honestly

 

[BlondeLombax]

I personally doubt Geno will ever have a shot at another Smash game.

I dunno. Sephiroth kind of killed the notion that Squeenix is unwillingly letting SORA use their content; really, the only thing holding back Geno is competition from other franchises like Chrono Trigger, TWEWY, and even Kingdom Hearts. At this point, not only have I given up believing in chances some characters have, but I’ve also abandoned the notion that characters never had a chance to begin with.

 

[Otoad64]

but that's the point. the Soundtrack will make you stronger, as if you can Smash and listen to Chronicles Soundtrack, you'll be a better player in no Time

only at the cost of your ears and sanity


honestly though everyone forgets that was a good song they just massacared into oblivion:

 

[Megadoomer]

I got a weird question I got to ask

If Waluigi ever got into Smash, would he be the closet thing to getting Michael Jackson in the game since Waluigi loves dancing (and his most important role was in Mario DDR), and technically since Michael's Dance moves aren't trademarked, we could see stuff like the Moonwalk and the Lean in his moveset

I don't know if Waluigi's the closest that we'd get to getting Michael Jackson's dance moves in the game...

 

[Golden Icarus]

I think Sora, Lara Croft & even Geno are likely to get in before Chrono. I think fans Chrono fans over estimate how iconic that series is, simply because it is well liked.

I don't know. Crono kind of reminds me of Banjo in that he's an extremely popular character, despite being from a relatively small series. And also like Banjo, he's very synonymous with Nintendo given that his heyday was on the SNES. I know characters like Cloud and Joker make people believe that being on a Nintendo console isn't all that important anymore, but it's definitely still a factor. Even if Cloud and Joker aren't Nintendo characters, FF and SMT still got their start on the Famicom. Kingdom Hearts and Tomb Raider have pretty much always been Sony things.

Geno's situation is so unique that I don't even know where to begin with his chances. Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG were on the same console and both did very well. Crono was the main character in his game though and had his name thrown around with the likes of Link and Cloud. Geno's popular, but he's never reached the level of popularity that Crono had in the late '90s-early 2000s. Also we have good reason to believe that Square isn't interested in seeing Geno in Smash. I think I'll leave it at that.

I think all of these characters have merit. Crono just seems more like a character Square and Nintendo would want.

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

I don't know. Crono kind of reminds me of Banjo in that he's an extremely popular character, despite being from a relatively small series. And also like Banjo, he's very synonymous with Nintendo given that his heyday was on the SNES. I know characters like Cloud and Joker make people believe that being on a Nintendo console isn't all that important anymore, but it's definitely still a factor. Even if Cloud and Joker aren't Nintendo characters, FF and SMT still got their start on the Famicom. Kingdom Hearts and Tomb Raider have pretty much always been Sony things.

Geno's situation is so unique that I don't even know where to begin with his chances. Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG were on the same console and both did very well. Crono was the main character in his game though and had his name thrown around with the likes of Link and Cloud. Geno's popular, but he's never reached the level of popularity that Crono had in the late '90s-early 2000s. Also we have good reason to believe that Square isn't interested in seeing Geno in Smash. I think I'll leave it at that.

I think all of these characters have merit. Crono just seems more like a character Square and Nintendo would want.

I thought Crono had a good chance previously, but I wonder if they're worried that, post-, it'd be doubling up on Square Enix-owned Toriyama-art JRPGs. I still think Crono would be a cool addition, but at this point I'm not super optimistic for his chances in Ultimate at least. That said, they could still do a Mii costume or spirit event and it'd be better than nothing.

 

[Pillow]

I don't know. Crono kind of reminds me of Banjo in that he's an extremely popular character, despite being from a relatively small series. And also like Banjo, he's very synonymous with Nintendo given that his heyday was on the SNES. I know characters like Cloud and Joker make people believe that being on a Nintendo console isn't all that important anymore, but it's definitely still a factor. Even if Cloud and Joker aren't Nintendo characters, FF and SMT still got their start on the Famicom. Kingdom Hearts and Tomb Raider have pretty much always been Sony things.

Geno's situation is so unique that I don't even know where to begin with his chances. Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG were on the same console and both did very well. Crono was the main character in his game though and had his name thrown around with the likes of Link and Cloud. Geno's popular, but he's never reached the level of popularity that Crono had in the late '90s-early 2000s. Also we have good reason to believe that Square isn't interested in seeing Geno in Smash. I think I'll leave it at that.

I think all of these characters have merit. Crono just seems more like a character Square and Nintendo would want.

I agree Crono is definitely more likely than Geno...Geno is a supporting character, from a one-off game, from a dead franchise. I feel bad for Geno supporters, but literally the only thing he has going for him is fan support. Crono is from a dead franchise, but he at least was the main character, and his game is very well-loved, if not exactly popular.

That said, he's still further back in the line of the many potential other SE characters they might try to push like Lara or 2B. But if a new Crono Trigger game were ever to come out, with him as the main character, then I'd actually consider him a pretty likely Smash candidate

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

MEDIA

honestly though everyone forgets that was a good song they just massacared into oblivion:

Actually...I like the first version you posted better. Soundfont can be a little rough, but otherwise it's a bop. The original is good to but isn't quite as funky.

 

[Otoad64]

Actually...I like the first version you posted better. Soundfont can be a little rough, but otherwise it's a bop. The original is good to but isn't quite as funky.

someone should make a cover with a good soundfont.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Geno is a supporting character, from a one-off game, from a dead franchise.

My life has been a lie...

 

[cashregister9]

My life has been a lie...

Mario was never real, you imagined the whole thing.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

My life has been a lie...

Super Mario RPG is not a franchise.

 

[Pillow]

Mario was never real, you imagined the whole thing.

Well, I was thinking Mario RPG. But after looking it up just now I guess super mario RPG was the only one game that was never a series, unless you include Mario&Luigi or Paper Mario. Neither of these series are dead, but surely Paper Mario would be the most likely candidate if you included all of them together.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Well, I was thinking Mario RPG. But after looking it up just now I guess super mario RPG was the only one game that was never a series, unless you include Mario&Luigi or Paper Mario. Neither of these series are dead, but surely Paper Mario would be the most likely candidate if you included all of them together.

Geno is so weird. The fact that he's mentioned in the same breath as Paper Mario, as well as Crono and Lara Croft shows the strange predicament he's in.

 

[Otoad64]

Well, I was thinking Mario RPG. But after looking it up just now I guess super mario RPG was the only one game that was never a series, unless you include Mario&Luigi or Paper Mario. Neither of these series are dead, but surely Paper Mario would be the most likely candidate if you included all of them together.

technically, I would say Mario RPGs are dead

Mario & Luigi's developers are dead and Paper Mario is no longer an RPG

 

[Guynamednelson]

Some characters are bound to be talked about more than others and Crash Bandicoot just happens to be one of them and whether you like him or not, You gotta admit Crash has as a lot going for him now and makes a ton of sense for a game like Super Smash Bros.

I'm sorry for making it seem like I hate Crash Bandicoot, but I just think too many people are unprepared for a situation where he doesn't get in. We should know by now after that they're going to pick characters that aren't common predictions, some for being from already-represented third-party franchises, some for being spirits from "dead" games, some for not being the biggest character they could possibly pick, and possibly for other reasons in the future including being an assist trophy, and that's okay.

 

[SKX31]

Mario was never real, you imagined the whole thing.

I mean, the entire thing would've sounded so ridicolous if it was indeed real. A stereotypically Italian plumber who doesn't do plumbing, but instead saves a princess from an dragon-turtle thingy together with his brother while consuming a bunch of 'shrooms along the way?

Everyone knows that Nintendo started their rise of fame with the Popeye game.

(Edited)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm sorry for making it seem like I hate Crash Bandicoot, but I just think too many people are unprepared for a situation where he doesn't get in. We should know by now after that they're going to pick characters that aren't common predictions, some for being from already-represented third-party franchises, some for being spirits from "dead" games, some for not being the biggest character they could possibly pick, and possibly for other reasons in the future including being an assist trophy, and that's okay.

I’m not sure the blowback for Crash hypothetically not being in would be so bad. Crash supporters seem pretty chill.

 

[Flyboy]

A few pages back I saw people talking about unique counter moves, and that means it's time for me to shill my moveset for Ichiban Kasuga of the Yakuza series, because I never pass up the chance to shill my own stuff

For context, I envision him having an MP bar that functions something like a fighting game meter where normal attacks fill it and specials drain it, with the down-special buffing move costing a large amount of MP and basically allowing for something akin to an EX move with extra hits or other properties.

Spoiler: Ichiban moveset

I bring it up because I wanted to attempt a unique counter with his buffed down-special, one that holds the opponent in place, like a pitfall or sleep status, allowing the player to follow up with an attack, play keepaway, or choose how to follow up in general. I felt guilty just adding a counter but I think it's an interesting twist.

And if you want you can totally check out the support thread for more...plug plug

----

As for Crash, I really don't think people are expecting him to be in, it's more that they're hopeful but from what I've seen pretty much all of his supporters see it as a "maybe". I don't see there being a blowback if he doesn't make it in, no more than someone like Heihachi being deconfirmed for example.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hear me out

the character that’ll represent the relationship between Nintendo and SE should be Neku

a Crono Mii comes with him. Hey, Seven Squares was for any kind of appearance right?

I just want my son ok

 

[JOJONumber691]

That was literally one example from nearly seven years ago, back when Nintendo's marketing was completely wack during the Wii U era.

And them revealing Mii Fighters and Palu in the same Direct was just them fully revealing the character customization feature and getting it out of the way to update the website and stuff.

True, but then again, I only see us getting one additional Third Party this Pass, and that Third Party is Ryu Hayabusa, so unless Paraleak is somehow a thing still, then I simply can't see Waluigi happening this Pass, so I'm just expecting our "E3" Character to be Ryu Hayabusa at this point lol.

 

[Pillow]

Hear me out

the character that’ll represent the relationship between Nintendo and SE should be Neku

a Crono Mii comes with him. Hey, Seven Squares was for any kind of appearance right?

I just want my son ok

I absolutely loved TWEWY and its general aesthetic, and think Neku would be a blast to play as...but when I think about it I always feel that Neku simply lacks the significance and legacy that 3rd parties need to make it into Smash. He's in a kind of similar boat to Phoenix and Layton for being significant to the DS specifically, but at least Phoenix has become pretty well known from all the objection memes he spawned.

On the other hand, **** that, give me Neku, ghost Shibuya stage, and all the music please.

 

[ahemtoday]

I wonder what they would pick as a TWEWY stage. I'm tempted to say one that just travels around Shibuya, because they'd probably have a made-up platform like Garreg Mach Monastery does to take you between places.

And because it's TWEWY, that platform's gonna look like graffiti and tattoos had a baby, and it'll be sick.

 

[7NATOR]

Perhaps Neku will start getting more Popular because of

-The New Anime based of The World Ends with You
-The World Ends with You Neo, though if he appears in the game
-If he Appears in Kingdom Hearts 4

At the least, Square is doing stuff with the World ends with You, which is a good thing in the end, so maybe Neku can get into Smash eventually

 

[Idon]

I wonder what they would pick as a TWEWY stage. I'm tempted to say one that just travels around Shibuya, because they'd probably have a made-up platform like Garreg Mach Monastery does to take you between places.

And because it's TWEWY, that platform's gonna look like graffiti and tattoos had a baby, and it'll be sick.

I think it would be cool if it was Shibuya Scramble or the 104 building. Maybe have people walk through the fighters sine they're in the RG while the fighters are in the UG and thus they don't affect each other.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

technically, I would say Mario RPGs are dead

Mario & Luigi's developers are dead and Paper Mario is no longer an RPG

Paper Mario is still an rpg. It's just less about rpg mechanics and more about exploration/puzzle-solving instead.

RPG's aren't just about hard experience. There's far more mechanics than that. So, yes, it still is. Just cause Nintendo labeled it clearly incorrectly but still labels action games with light rpg elements(which isn't entirely accurate to Paper Mario cause turn-based gameplay is an extremely notable rpg element if not one of the first things known to it) like Zelda instead doesn't mean it suddenly stopped being one.

Paper Mario is always going to be an rpg series. It's not just pure SMRPG since, well, Super Paper Mario. It's an rpg game that focuses, again, on action and exploration a lot more than simply experience. There's tons of rpg's that only level up via story instead of through battling alone. Is that a good thing for an rpg? Debatable, of course. I prefer it, cause I like to grind, but it's not a necessity. Leveling up is something generally dne through experience, but calling it a requirement misunderstands how it works in a game. The whole reason Zelda was treated like an rpg series by people isn't Zelda II, but because you leveled up items by getting upgrades, and leveled up your health by finding more heart containers. It still was a classic JRPG too. Zelda II is the most rpg-focused one(BOTW would be the second), but they are mainly action-adventure games otherwise with very light rpg elements. One has to remember that the biggest rpg element Zelda even has, as noted, is leveling up a stat by finding it an overworld. That's pretty much why it's even labeled as an rpg even outside of Zelda II and BOTW. And Paper Mario does that but it doesn't count suddenly? Makes zero sense to me.

Yes, they're still rpg's. No, they aren't the same kind as the N64/GameCube/Wii. RPG's aren't one definition, after all, heh.

 

[Otoad64]

Paper Mario is still an rpg. It's just less about rpg mechanics and more about exploration/puzzle-solving instead.

RPG's aren't just about hard experience. There's far more mechanics than that. So, yes, it still is. Just cause Nintendo labeled it clearly incorrectly but still labels action games with light rpg elements(which isn't entirely accurate to Paper Mario cause turn-based gameplay is an extremely notable rpg element if not one of the first things known to it) like Zelda instead doesn't mean it suddenly stopped being one.

Paper Mario is always going to be an rpg series. It's not just pure SMRPG since, well, Super Paper Mario. It's an rpg game that focuses, again, on action and exploration a lot more than simply experience. There's tons of rpg's that only level up via story instead of through battling alone. Is that a good thing for an rpg? Debatable, of course. I prefer it, cause I like to grind, but it's not a necessity. Leveling up is something generally dne through experience, but calling it a requirement misunderstands how it works in a game. The whole reason Zelda was treated like an rpg series by people isn't Zelda II, but because you leveled up items by getting upgrades, and leveled up your health by finding more heart containers. It still was a classic JRPG too. Zelda II is the most rpg-focused one(BOTW would be the second), but they are mainly action-adventure games otherwise with very light rpg elements. One has to remember that the biggest rpg element Zelda even has, as noted, is leveling up a stat by finding it an overworld. That's pretty much why it's even labeled as an rpg even outside of Zelda II and BOTW. And Paper Mario does that but it doesn't count suddenly? Makes zero sense to me.

Yes, they're still rpg's. No, they aren't the same kind as the N64/GameCube/Wii. RPG's aren't one genre, after all, heh.

I mean I guess, but still as you said they aren't the same as the N64/Gamecube ones, which still means the SMRPG series is dead.


also Super Paper Mario is a platformer with RPG elements

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean I guess, but still as you said they aren't the same as the N64/Gamecube ones, which still means the SMRPG series is dead.


also Super Paper Mario is a platformer with RPG elements

Leveling up is the most important rpg element you can get. And Super Paper Mario definitely has that. It's an RPG/Platformer hybrid. It's not just an element there. It's actually very important to the gameplay.

 

[N3ON]

I dunno. Sephiroth kind of killed the notion that Squeenix is unwillingly letting SORA use their content; really, the only thing holding back Geno is competition from other franchises like Chrono Trigger, TWEWY, and even Kingdom Hearts. At this point, not only have I given up believing in chances some characters have, but I’ve also abandoned the notion that characters never had a chance to begin with.

That's not that true, though. It's not Square characters holding Geno back. Square was always willing to at least lend their characters. Sephiroth doesn't pioneer anything new in that department.

It's that Geno is a supporting character owned by another company, from a single spin-off receding further and further into the distance as time passes. The relevant competition isn't "bigger Square characters" so much as it's just third-parties who aren't in that unenviable situation. Of which there are countless.

It's not a matter of them going "you know what, it's time to add another [INSERT COMPANY] character", because they don't do it that way. They just look for characters based on series, or character. They didn't add Joker because it was time to give Sega another character, they added him because he's Persona's most prolific option. So even if all the other plausible SE characters get in, Geno is still left being Geno, with all the shortcomings that entails. And therein, characters from other companies probably look like a better option from Nintendo's vantage.

I don't know. Crono kind of reminds me of Banjo in that he's an extremely popular character, despite being from a relatively small series. And also like Banjo, he's very synonymous with Nintendo given that his heyday was on the SNES. I know characters like Cloud and Joker make people believe that being on a Nintendo console isn't all that important anymore, but it's definitely still a factor. Even if Cloud and Joker aren't Nintendo characters, FF and SMT still got their start on the Famicom. Kingdom Hearts and Tomb Raider have pretty much always been Sony things.

Geno's situation is so unique that I don't even know where to begin with his chances. Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG were on the same console and both did very well. Crono was the main character in his game though and had his name thrown around with the likes of Link and Cloud. Geno's popular, but he's never reached the level of popularity that Crono had in the late '90s-early 2000s. Also we have good reason to believe that Square isn't interested in seeing Geno in Smash. I think I'll leave it at that.

I think all of these characters have merit. Crono just seems more like a character Square and Nintendo would want.

Crono is sort of like Banjo in that they have a legacy of affinity and are well-regarded, well-liked characters people would be happy to see, and wouldn't strongly protest the presence of. But they're unalike in that Crono isn't extremely popular in the way Banjo was, which is within the fanbase. Things are going to have to shift drastically in his favour to end up in the position Banjo was in. Otherwise he's just going to remain a darling within certain circles but a character not really at the forefront of anything anymore.

And to be fair, Banjo would've been included a long time ago had Rare and Nintendo not parted ways. What really drove Banjo's popularity is the history he had with Nintendo, and as one of their characters. Crono has a history with Nintendo, but a much more standard one for a third-party.

To that end, I do question whether Nintendo history is really a pertinent factor. Think about it. Nintendo history can inform demand, and demand affects inclusion. So it indirectly can matter. But look at the inclusions with the very strong Nintendo history. Mega Man, Simon, Banjo... these are the characters explicitly included due to the demand. I guess you could make an argument for Bayo, but until Nintendo adopts Crono, it's not really applicable.

And just having some key titles on a Nintendo system at some point is a pretty weak litmus test for history, considering most if not all of those examples, like FF, SF, DQ, etc. can also apply to Sony.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Mario & Luigi's developers are dead

They're bankrupt, not dead.

 

[Otoad64]

Leveling up is the most important rpg element you can get. And Super Paper Mario definitely has that. It's an RPG/Platformer hybrid. It's not just an element there. It's actually very important to the gameplay.

but it still isn't a standard rpg like SMRPG

 

[TechPowah]

counter

fun fact
since Brawler's counter is also a command grab
it's the only counter that completely, truly works against Wonderwing, and it does quite decent damage to Banjo at that
RT to save a life

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

but it still isn't a standard rpg like SMRPG

...So? It's not supposed to be.

Paper Mario is not "SMRPG 2" beyond what happened with the first one. It's a subset of Mario that is an rpg series and does its own thing. That's why it can experiment. Every game outside of literally TTYD is different. Mario & Luigi also heavily experimented.

SMRPG is not the point behind the rpg games Mario still has. That's one game. It's not being continued at this point. Small bits were reused to help make the other rpg's, but they were always their own thing.