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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Pillow

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On the topic of a potential OC character, I think the idea would generally be met with a lot of resistance. Smash's big draw is being a crossover between so many video game franchises...though honestly ROB comes kinda close to what I'd consider a Smash OC.

Personally, for me to accept a smash OC the design would have to be amazing. I wouldn't rule it out, mostly because I loved Ruby Heart so much in MVCII, so I know there is some potential. But there's already tons of beloved characters not yet in, so there's no real reason to go in this direction.
 

ChunkySlugger72

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No one is a lock but I think Crash Bandicoot just has more going for him than against him.
Exactly, While no 3rd party is an absolute lock, There's a reason some characters are viewed as frontrunners because they just check off a lot more boxes than others that many view are essential for joining Smash judging by "Most" past 3rd party newcomers.

Some characters are bound to be talked about more than others and Crash Bandicoot just happens to be one of them and whether you like him or not, You gotta admit Crash has as a lot going for him now and makes a ton of sense for a game like Super Smash Bros.
 

3BitSaurus

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On the topic of a potential OC character, I think the idea would generally be met with a lot of resistance. Smash's big draw is being a crossover between so many video game franchises...though honestly ROB comes kinda close to what I'd consider a Smash OC.

Personally, for me to accept a smash OC the design would have to be amazing. I wouldn't rule it out, mostly because I loved Ruby Heart so much in MVCII, so I know there is some potential. But there's already tons of beloved characters not yet in, so there's no real reason to go in this direction.
It would never happen, because Nintendo seems hellbent in making it appear like that game never existed, but...

Project H.A.M.M.E.R.'s protag would fit this like a glove. It would pretty much be the same situation as Ruby Heart, Sonson and Amingo in that it's a scrapped character given new form.
 

SpecterFlower

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things are this chaotic because Fighter 9 was revealed to be Amingo. You'd expect his reveal to unite the Smash community, but instead his inclusion was so perfect that it was overwhelming - having brought Armageddon upon this fanbase.

A small price to pay for funny cactus.
real talk amigo (not amingo) would be amazing.
 

Golden Icarus

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Exactly, While no 3rd party is an absolute lock, There's a reason some characters are viewed as frontrunners because they just check off a lot more boxes than others that many view are essential for joining Smash judging by "Most" past 3rd party newcomers.

Some characters are bound to be talked about more than others and Crash Bandicoot just happens to be one of them and whether you like him or not, You gotta admit Crash has as a lot going for him now and makes a ton of sense for a game like Super Smash Bros.
I have a lot of confidence in Crash right now. With all the recent attention he's gotten, Nintendo would probably love it from a marketing standpoint. And with Sakurai being such a nerd about gaming history, I imagine he'd pounce at the opportunity to add a character with as important of a legacy as Crash.

Crash is one of the reasons I think a Fighters Pass 3 might actually happen. If he somehow didn't make the cut for FP2, then there has to be more DLC on the way. Passing up a character like Crash would be ludicrous.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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I have a lot of confidence in Crash right now. With all the recent attention he's gotten, Nintendo would probably love it from a marketing standpoint. And with Sakurai being such a nerd about gaming history, I imagine he'd pounce at the opportunity to add a character with as important of a legacy as Crash.

Crash is one of the reasons I think a Fighters Pass 3 might actually happen. If he somehow didn't make the cut for FP2, then there has to be more DLC on the way. Passing up a character like Crash would be ludicrous.
Gosh, I sure hope you’re right...
 

Golden Icarus

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Gosh, I sure hope you’re right...
I'm wrong a lot. I thought Captain Toad was a lock for Ultimate's base game, so don't count on me.

But my feelings towards Crash are very similar to the feelings I had towards Simon, Hero and Steve. It just feels so perfect, like they have to go for it.
 
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Pillow

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I have a lot of confidence in Crash right now. With all the recent attention he's gotten, Nintendo would probably love it from a marketing standpoint. And with Sakurai being such a nerd about gaming history, I imagine he'd pounce at the opportunity to add a character with as important of a legacy as Crash.

Crash is one of the reasons I think a Fighters Pass 3 might actually happen. If he somehow didn't make the cut for FP2, then there has to be more DLC on the way. Passing up a character like Crash would be ludicrous.
On paper Crash has a lot of stuff going for him, but for some reason I just don't see him coming. I think most of my pessimism stems from him being a western character. If they're going to cater to the western fanbase they may as well go all the way, so if we do get one I think it'll be an FPS man in a green space suit whose latest game has a subtitle that means 'forever'.
 
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Golden Icarus

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On paper Crash has a lot of stuff going for him, but for some reason I just don't see him coming. I think most of my pessimism stems from him being a western character. If they're going to cater to the western fanbase they may as well go all the way, so if we do get one I think it'll be an FPS man in a green space suit whose latest game has a subtitle that means 'forever'.
That's fair. But Doomguy never stood toe-to-toe with Mario.
 

OffBrandANON

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On paper Crash has a lot of stuff going for him, but for some reason I just don't see him coming. I think most of my pessimism stems from him being a western character. If they're going to cater to the western fanbase they may as well go all the way, so if we do get one I think it'll be an FPS man in a green space suit whose latest game has a subtitle that means 'forever'.
on the other hand, banjo and kazooie are a thing, and steve was originally from the west(though minecraft is kinda an international thing).
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Aside from the kind-of-but-not-really OC characters like Mr. Game & Watch (character that didn't exist, but are heavily based on games that did) and the Mii Fighters (characters that did exist, but aren't based on much of anything), original characters shouldn't really be a thing. They could make for some interesting movesets, but so can everyone else, and Super Smash Bros.'s main draw (and scope) is the pre-existing characters.

If we do ever get an OC, it should really be a previous NPC that has struck a cord with fans, and to my knowledge, the characters that come closest to this are Master Hand and R.O.B. (EDIT: Who's already in the game and fits the Mr. Game & Watch category). Maybe The Subspace Emissary enemies and villains if Super Smash Bros. Brawl nostalgia becomes a huge thing.
 
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Pillow

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That's fair. But Doomguy never stood toe-to-toe with Mario.
But Haloguy kind of did! Halo is pretty much the mascot franchise for Xbox at this point.

on the other hand, banjo and kazooie are a thing, and steve was originally from the west(though minecraft is kinda an international thing).
Minecraft is just too big to be considered a western pick, despite being a western character. Banjo, sure yeah, but his huge following came from way earlier in Smash's history, when it was mostly a Nintendo crossover game more than a video game crossover game. I feel like Smash had 2 directions it could've gone for new characters before Smash 4 DLC, if they went with picks like Phoenix Wright or Professor Layton then I'd care more about the Mario & Rivals thing. But they went for Cloud, a big character who never appeared on a nintendo system, and expectations were shifted away from Nintendo roots. On the bright side, FPS green space suit vs Nintendo red space suit would be pretty cool to see.
 

Simplythe1

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It would never happen, because Nintendo seems hellbent in making it appear like that game never existed, but...

Project H.A.M.M.E.R.'s protag would fit this like a glove. It would pretty much be the same situation as Ruby Heart, Sonson and Amingo in that it's a scrapped character given new form.
Ah yes M-09 would be sick, also makes me wonder how cool would it be if they tried other cancelled nintendo game characters like the protag of Raven Blade and the Cat and Mouse from Catroots
 

Louie G.

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I kind of question the extent that Crash really stood "toe to toe" with Mario, since his reign was fairly short (like, three years of Crash 1-3 and then CTR) and the rivalry has always appeared very one-sided. Mario and Sonic were constantly going at it, and Crash feels like the character who really tried his best to get involved but never really stood up to the big boys. There are obviously those magazine ads and commercials that hype up Crash as the new kid on the block (and he's coming for you!) but just about every new platforming series got that.

I wasn't there so I can't say for absolutely certain, but it feels like his significance as the "mascot" of the PS1 who competed with Mario is slightly overstated when if he ever reached that level it was so short-lived that I feel like it makes Crash look more like a fad than anything. While Sonic, even after Sega dropped out of the console race and Sonic hit a few road bumps, continued to stick around about as strong as he ever has been.

To me he's always been like, the most successful of the fallen attempts at replicating Sonic's success. He stuck around for a while (with fairly mediocre games post PS1), he saw very significant success out the gate, but... he just never had the longevity and impact that the other two did. I'm not saying this makes him any less of a viable choice for Smash - I just don't see him as quite the necessary character that some other people do when we have fellow PS1 icon Cloud who I feel embodies that Sony presence in Smash just about as well as Crash would. As Pillow said I think Master Chief holds a lot more weight in that regard, because he's inarguably the face of Xbox and has been nonstop since his debut.

But I mean, I think Crash would be a fine addition and his resurgence shows me that he's here to stay once again. He's got the merit and clout for it. I just think people have a tendency to really oversell his significance.
 
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SKX31

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A bit off-topic, but I kinda wish we had more characters with reflects/counters that AREN'T Down B. I know it has to do with Down normally being used for some sort of utility move, but it would spice things more imo.
Yeah - as MockRock said in the linked video, I'd also appriciate more Counters that are not "Strike a pose, hit back". :ultincineroar: is a step in the right direction, as is the Rivals of Aether counter that generates an anti-projectile field.

The reason for that is personal: I've personally tired of traditional counters - not just because of how many characters use counters, but also since if a player uses counters often (especially when coming down from disadvantage) it becomes much easier to anticipate that and punish it.

I'm trying to think of a reason why it should have a different button combo for those kind of moves. Isn't that part of what is usually the point of Down B? Up B is generally a Recovery move, Neutral B is often a projectile or some kind of hard-focus move(like Falcon Punch or Giant Punch would be), Side B is quite often a Rush or Self Launch move. Down B is Utility. It seems more of a design philosophy here. Not saying they can't work otherwise, but changing it just because shouldn't be a thing. One should look at what works well for a Side B in those cases. Cape and Doctor's Cape work great for that. As did the Whip Chain that Sheik used to use. Sometimes it works fine for projectiles if it's a "holding right" kind of thing with Zelse(or if it's a Smash-based move with the Boomerangs and Missiles). It can vary.

That said, it's been done, so do you have any examples of ones that fit well otherwise for Side B? :) I could see Falco's Reflector fitting that well... if you replaced Phantasm entirely.
Whip Chain
works great
No offense meant, but that's legit the first time I've heard it in that context. It's seen as a meme-tier move by most Melee / Brawl players IIRC - it's used very infrequently for cheeky edgeguard kills. I do think it actually could've worked great, but I do think it would need to have something akin to a trapping ability so it didn't do like 4 % in most situations.

Kinda think that Dante's Royal Guard Release - when he unleashes the energy stored by successful parries - could also be a Side B (if Dante's using style switching and he's chosen Royal Guard, that is). In this context, I'd imagine that the actual guarding would be B or Down B - depending on where the Style menu itself is mapped.

What I tell y'all. They don't call Disney evil for nothing.

The Roman Empire of companies. One day they shall collapse as they grow bigger when those start rebelling against them.
That's... an interesting comparision to say the least. Can't say I entirely agree with that one (the Roman Republic / Empire certainly faced a lot of rebellions and revolts, as was par for the course with anything pre-industrial)
But the most important question is, who would be the tiny Gaullish village that always comes out on top? :4pacman:

(Going to use this as an excuse to post some music that would kinda fit Disney, as it's reconstructed Roman music: )

 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Ah yes M-09 would be sick, also makes me wonder how cool would it be if they tried other cancelled nintendo game characters like the protag of Raven Blade and the Cat and Mouse from Catroots
That is a really interesting prospect. I don't think too many people would be on board in concept for the same reasons as OCs, but it is at least interesting to think about.

Like, would they be considered Super Smash Bros. characters or would they be classified as being from the scrapped games they came from?
 

Michael the Spikester

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Honestly I'm just not expecting Crash at this point and people are putting too much stock and high expectations into him.

This comes from someone who once thought he was certainly a lock.

I feel if anyone is our E3 reveal that it'll be some around the lines of Chun-Li or someone that is being slept on. Heck I could even see Ryu Hayabusa as our E3 reveal.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Aside from the kind-of-but-not-really OC characters like Mr. Game & Watch (character that didn't exist, but are heavily based on games that did) and the Mii Fighters (characters that did exist, but aren't based on much of anything), original characters shouldn't really be a thing. They could make for some interesting movesets, but so can everyone else, and Super Smash Bros.'s main draw (and scope) is the pre-existing characters.

If we do ever get an OC, it should really be a previous NPC that has struck a cord with fans, and to my knowledge, the characters that come closest to this are Master Hand and R.O.B. (EDIT: Who's already in the game and fits the Mr. Game & Watch category). Maybe The Subspace Emissary enemies and villains if Super Smash Bros. Brawl nostalgia becomes a huge thing.
Funny thing is Giga Bowser is the only one among the "based loosely on other characters" that is remotely unique overall. Mr. Game & Watch is nothing more than combining the games into a feasible character but is clearly the same character. Mii Fighters work exactly like Miis do, which are "they work exactly as a player character in the game they're in. They aren't preset outside of your ability to create their looks". Giga Bowser is however a unique version on its own, and it's still just a remake of Giant Bowser, anyway. He's still a Smash OC either way, but barely. He's no Master Hand.

Smash has many OC's, and I will admit they could be neat. Primid or the various Fighting Teams could actually make for an interesting option, even if it's just a unique skin without special moves for the appropriate character they're based upon. You could literally have a slot identically to a Mii Fighter. You open it, then you select which "version" to play as. Simple.

No offense meant, but that's legit the first time I've heard it in that context. It's seen as a meme-tier move by most Melee / Brawl players IIRC - it's used very infrequently for cheeky edgeguard kills. I do think it actually could've worked great, but I do think it would need to have something akin to a trapping ability so it didn't do like 4 % in most situations.

Kinda think that Dante's Royal Guard Release - when he unleashes the energy stored by successful parries - could also be a Side B (if Dante's using style switching and he's chosen Royal Guard, that is). In this context, I'd imagine that the actual guarding would be B or Down B - depending on where the Style menu itself is mapped.
I mean both moves work fine with the button they're allocated to. Not that they're "good" moves. They make sense overall. And yeah, I've done movesets lately where "Utility" type stuff is often a B move instead, but it also depends the design of the moveset. I can't really talk on it much, but I can say that it's fun trying out specific rules in how you're allocating a move with the controls. Like how MegaMan's Mega Buster is his Neutral A, accurately to his own games. Normally it'd be a Neutral B, but it's done to resemble his gameplay more clearly. That kind of thing. Balance is another story.
 

DarthEnderX

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50+ is pretty common across the industry
Yes, pretty common. By NON-indie developers.

there are not labeled indie to like them better or whatever you're claiming, they're called indie because they are.
So you're definition of an indie developer is...what exactly? Any developer that's not a console manufacturer?

also... neither of you have actually provided a reason to hate plant.
Because you already know the reason. You're just trying to bait an argument.

Sora is from a video game, right
Right, he is, so

Then he is eligible
Yes. Though it might still matter depending on what Sakurai and Nintendo think.

For example, Android 21 is from a video game. Still a Dragon Ball character. So still not eligible. Because Dragon Ball isn't eligible.

Sora is from a Disney movie crossover game. Disney movies are not eligible. Does Sakurai consider Sora a Disney movie character first, or a video game character first? That's the question.
 
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Pillow

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Honestly I'm just not expecting Crash at this point and people are putting too much stock and high expectations into him.

This comes from someone who once thought he was certainly a lock.

I feel if anyone is our E3 reveal that it'll be some around the lines of Chun-Li or someone that is being slept on. Heck I could even see Ryu Hayabusa as our E3 reveal.
We need a Western shill pick for E3. So the clear answer is Hatsune Miku. She was supposed to crossover with the longtime western franchise, Coachella, until Covid got in the way.
 

3BitSaurus

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real talk amingo (not amigo) would be amazing.
Fixed. :4pacman:

Yeah - as MockRock said in the linked video, I'd also appriciate more Counters that are not "Strike a pose, hit back". :ultincineroar: is a step in the right direction, as is the Rivals of Aether counter that generates an anti-projectile field.

The reason for that is personal: I've personally tired of traditional counters - not just because of how many characters use counters, but also since if a player uses counters often (especially when coming down from disadvantage) it becomes much easier to anticipate that and punish it.
Pretty much. I think that's what made me like Clairen (the RoA character) so much. It's a pretty unique take on counters. Another option would be counters that cause status effects instead of dealing damage. Or maybe counters that grant buffs. Maybe a counter-command grab hybrid?

Also, I just wanna say the Asterix reference alone earned my like. :roll:
 

7NATOR

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I'm not really sure if the first one is true. The second point is fair though, especially considering how Min Min and Incineroar got in. But the 3rd point I'm not sure about because all of these characters have moveset potential, though Tails probably has slightly less than the other 3. But the 4th one, they added Steve from Minecraft, I don't think being able to reuse assets is a priority here.
-Besides Shadow coming 2nd in Popularity contensts, and even at some points beating Sonic in polls, Sonic Boom (the Cartoon) also confirmed he was the 2nd most popular character


-Eggman, Tails, & Knuckles have moveset potential, but my point is that Shadow's abilities are different from the rest of the 4. Like if the Dev team were more interested in the Space and Time Manipulation than what the other 3 can offer, that could be a reason Shadow is picked

-Steve has most of his assets taken from Minecraft itself. His model is a straight port, and his Stage is from the game as well in PNG files. Min-Min actually is kind of the same, as her model is taken from ARMS, though it is changed up a bit

in any case, Re-useable assets is very useful not just for faster and easier development, but also for conceptualizing as well. In any case, we've seen that Bomberman's Assist was used for his Mii Costume model, so we know the Assist assets are useful even for playable Characters (as Mii's are playable) and Shadow fits Sonic's Skeleton very well so there's also that
 

Simplythe1

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That is a really interesting prospect. I don't think too many people would be on board in concept for the same reasons as OCs, but it is at least interesting to think about.

Like, would they be considered Super Smash Bros. characters or would they be classified as being from the scrapped games they came from?
Honestly I see them being considered both, I mean they kinda fit smash bros already in my eyes

A giant heavyweight cyborg with a oversized hammer, a knight with a legendary blade from a john carter like fantasy world, and a red cartoony cat with a sadistic mouse with an arsenal of cartoony weapons
the more I think about it, the more cool (and tragic) these characters seem to me
 

ChunkySlugger72

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That's fair. But Doomguy never stood toe-to-toe with Mario.
That's what gives me hope for Crash Bandicoot.

Sonic the Hedgehog, Crash Bandicoot, Pac-Man and Hell even to a lesser extent Banjo-Kazooie have all been compared to Mario or crossed over with each other in some form outside of Smash.

Sonic the Hedgehog - Sega's mascot and Mario's main rival and 2d games have been constantly compared have crossed over numerous times via Olympic games.

Pac-Man - Namco's mascot, Is only slightly older than Mario and has crossed over via "Pac-Man VS" and Mario Kart arcade too.

Crash Bandicoot- Sony's Former "De facto" mascot for their Playstation brand and Mario's 2nd rival only to Sonic, Has been pit against Mario in not just platformers, But kart racers as well with "CTR" and have crossed over via Skylanders with Donkey Kong/Bowser and Crash Bandicoot/Dr. Neo Cortex.

Banjo-Kazooie- Their game is heavily compared to Super Mario 64, Has been marketed alongside Mario and crossed over with Donkey Kong via Diddy Kong Racing which is often compared to Mario Kart.

Hell this is the 2nd time Banjo-Kazooie and Sonic crossed over since 2009's "Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing" too. It's things like this that give me hope that Crash Bandicoot will crossover again via Smash.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Yeah - as MockRock said in the linked video, I'd also appriciate more Counters that are not "Strike a pose, hit back". :ultincineroar: is a step in the right direction, as is the Rivals of Aether counter that generates an anti-projectile field.

The reason for that is personal: I've personally tired of traditional counters - not just because of how many characters use counters, but also since if a player uses counters often (especially when coming down from disadvantage) it becomes much easier to anticipate that and punish it.
I personally don't mind the counters that exist, but the dubious usefulness of them and the sheer prevalence of them are why I've avoided them as much as possible in my movesets; Freddy has a counter due to his design revolving around forcing the opponent to be careful how they approach him and as a direct reference to something he does in FNaF AR: Special Delivery, but I also made it a mobility tool because a counter by itself isn't really all that helpful. Also, Amaterasu's sub-Reflector attack is a counter and I almost immediately vetoed adding it.
 

Louie G.

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Like, would they be considered Super Smash Bros. characters or would they be classified as being from the scrapped games they came from?
They'd probably be "classified" as the series they were supposed to come from, but in the public eye be seen as Smash characters just as the likes of Ruby Heart and Amingo are seen as MVC characters despite (presumably) being intended for Darkstalkers.
 

OffBrandANON

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Yes, pretty common. By NON-indie developers.

So you're definition of an indie developer is...what exactly? Any developer that's not a console manufacturer?

Because you already know the reason. You're just trying to bait an argument.
not that uncommon indie either. shovel knight: specter of torment had 87 devs, celeste had 53, untitled goose game had 99.

i said - small and independent. a company with about a hundred people is small by modern game industry standards.

and no, i really do not know the reason piranha plant is hated - it's a fun, surprise bonus character whose status as a generic enemy isn't some kinda floodgate(see: pokemon), fits an underrepresented niche(plants), and doesn't really harm the game. i do not know what there really is to hate.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Unrelated topic, but if Songs were added as smash DLC without needing to be tied to characters/costumes, what music would you guys like to see come to Smash?
If I can’t get playable octolings at least give me the entire Octo Expansion soundtrack. THAT INCLUDES FLY OCTO FLY.

same with Elma and the X ost. As long as I get Uncontrollable somehow... and aBOreSSs while you’re at it.

oh and more Square Enix music in general
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Smash's counters already have a bit of variety. Some are also reflectors, Toad counters with a projectile instead of a melee weapon, Scintilla attacks regardless, etc.
This counter looked so cool to me when I first saw it in a presentation, a command grab counter, neat! Don't think I've ever seen that before.



Then I did the Geese spirit battle, the Mio used that on me and I went "OOOOOO THAT'S WHAT IT'S BASED ON" I felt like such a ****ing clown for not realizing sooner lmao
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Unrelated topic, but if Songs were added as smash DLC without needing to be tied to characters/costumes, what music would you guys like to see come to Smash?
This.

This counter looked so cool to me when I first saw it in a presentation, a command grab counter, neat! Don't think I've ever seen that before.
Too bad the dev team were cowards and didn't make this thing spike when used in the air. :p
 

Miles of SmashWiki

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Unrelated topic, but if Songs were added as smash DLC without needing to be tied to characters/costumes, what music would you guys like to see come to Smash?
Too many to list, but the one that's been on my personal wishlist since childhood was the Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga battle theme. Been wanting it since before Brawl.
 

Pillow

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If I can’t get playable octolings at least give me the entire Octo Expansion soundtrack. THAT INCLUDES FLY OCTO FLY.

same with Elma and the X ost. As long as I get Uncontrollable somehow... and aBOreSSs while you’re at it.

oh and more Square Enix music in general
I'm also super partial to SE stuff. Just give me the entire Nier: Automata and TWEWY soundtracks please. I'll also take Halo, DMC, and Ace Attorney.
 
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