Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Technomage]

I don't really see any more Western characters being added.

Yeah, you already said that. What's the point of saying it again?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hmm, well Glitch Theory was somewhat right about an ARMS rep, so I do see your point on hindsight. Though what were the rest of its past predictions, and their respective outcomes?

There was the Ness glitch where his eyes vanished. The Steve presentation said Steve’s Flint behaved like Ness’s PK fire so I think it was linked to that

Then there was a supposed Marth glitch where part of his cape disappeared, that may have been connected to Sephiroth’s one wing form

 

[RileyXY1]

Yeah, you already said that. What's the point?

Well, the DLC mostly leans towards what the Japanese want. Western-directed characters are usually in the base roster.

 

[KillerCage]

What a coincidence! I've been watching a video that uses Glitch Theory to theorize Master Chief (and Ryu Hayabusa).

Smash Bros. Ultimate GLITCH Reveals NEXT NEWCOMER?! Breaking Down The RUMORS & LEAKS! - LEAK SPEAK

This newly discovered glitch may show us the next fighter!Click to Subscribe! ► http://bit.ly/BlockedSubscribeSupport my Patreon: ► https://www.patreon.com/b...

www.youtube.com

Speaking of Glitch Theory, has it gotten any of the previous DLCs right?

Please tell me that's not Blocked Content.

 

[Technomage]

Please tell me that's not Blocked Content.

Is there something I should know about him?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What a coincidence! I've been watching a video that uses Glitch Theory to theorize Master Chief (and Ryu Hayabusa).

Smash Bros. Ultimate GLITCH Reveals NEXT NEWCOMER?! Breaking Down The RUMORS & LEAKS! - LEAK SPEAK

This newly discovered glitch may show us the next fighter!Click to Subscribe! ► http://bit.ly/BlockedSubscribeSupport my Patreon: ► https://www.patreon.com/b...

www.youtube.com

Speaking of Glitch Theory, has it gotten any of the previous DLCs right?

blocked content

yup, into the trash it goes. Guy’s LaxChris 2.0, covering every blatantly fake 4chan leak under the sun for clicks

 

[JOJONumber691]

Well, the DLC mostly leans towards what the Japanese want. Western-directed characters are usually in the base roster.

No one cares I want my Wild West Shootout Smash Trailer gosh darn it!

 

[7NATOR]

to be fair, While People do think Glitch theory is related to a character that's being used as a base, I think it's been assumed that the character that's glitching is being used for a property that character they may have, not that they are the base

But yeah, the Problem with Glitch theory is that it doesn't exactly pin-point who exactly the character is. Vague glitches like the Marth Cape and Daisy skirt one didn't point to any characters (it was for Sephiroth I believe), and even glitches that do seem to have an obvious character like the projectile glitch (in regards to Reimu), there are honestly other characters that could possible have mechanics similiar to that that are not guessed at

Also, one thing I haven't seen mentioned. there was never a source for that Belmont glitch that the 4chan post claimed to have existed

 

[RileyXY1]

And the fact that FP2 as a whole appears less inclined to add new franchises to Smash than FP1 has, with FP2 mostly focused on fixing holes in a series' representation or giving 2 Switch games a character that could have gotten one in the base roster but didn't because of timing issues. The only real new franchise added to Smash this FP so far was Minecraft, which had been in the works for 5 years but stalled because Sakurai struggled with figuring out how to properly represent the series' mechanics.

 

[JOJONumber691]

God can we all agree to block Riley Syverston? Thanks!

 

[SharkLord]

There was the Ness glitch where his eyes vanished. The Steve presentation said Steve’s Flint behaved like Ness’s PK fire so I think it was linked to that

Then there was a supposed Marth glitch where part of his cape disappeared, that may have been connected to Sephiroth’s one wing form

Y'know, when a theory has to make such big stretches to tie every little glitch back to a character I think it's safe to say it only works in hindsight

 

[Perkilator]

I don't really see any more Western characters being added.

Oh, really? Mind saying that twice in a single page? I don't think I heard you the last 800 times.

 

[RileyXY1]

Y'know, when a theory has to make such big stretches to tie every little glitch back to a character I think it's safe to say it only works in hindsight

Yeah. That's the problem with Glitch Theory, as that it only applies retroactively after the character has been revealed, thus making it impossible to debunk. That's bad.

 

[Perkilator]

Today's the 19th anniversary of a certain beloved JRPG from 2002.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

2002年のきょう『ファイアーエムブレム 封印の剣』発売!!
なんと、日本でしか売っていません。
『スマブラDX』でロイを参戦させた時は、原作がまだ出ていませんでした。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/FlBpNwqdLW

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) March 29, 2021

2002 "Fire Emblem Sealed Sword" released today !! It's only sold in Japan. When Roy participated in "Smash Bros. DX", the original was not released yet. # Smash Bros SP

 

[Froggy]

I do think a Double Reveal is possible. Especially if they wanted to make sure Challenger Pack 11 doesn’t cause too much salt. Maybe even a Double Reveal of Zacian and Jonesy, for example. Like, they both share a reveal trailer for example.

Well if its a double reveal I don't think that a left field pick words well for that so it could harm my Yoshimitsu idea. I could see Hayabusa and DoomGuy working well for that, but I just seem him like Sephiroth and Pythra, where he is a nimble sword user with a lot of power to him. Unless they want to play more to his ninja techniques and Dead or Alive kit. Idk.

So are we thinking Steve and Sephiroth would have been the E3 reveals if not for the pandemic? Maybe Nintendo saves thier biggest reveals for E3 then.

 

[Ivander]

2002年のきょう『ファイアーエムブレム 封印の剣』発売!!
なんと、日本でしか売っていません。
『スマブラDX』でロイを参戦させた時は、原作がまだ出ていませんでした。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/FlBpNwqdLW

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) March 29, 2021

2002 "Fire Emblem Sealed Sword" released today !! It's only sold in Japan. When Roy participated in "Smash Bros. DX", the original was not released yet. # Smash Bros SP

Curse you Sakurai and your exclusive access to debug commands that allow you to fight against any bosses with whatever character you want on any stage!

Seriously, Boss select when?

 

[7NATOR]

Curse you Sakurai and your exclusive access to debug commands that allow you to fight against any bosses with whatever character you want on any stage!

Seriously, Boss select when?

That also could just be the Assist Trophy version of Rathalos.

 

[DanganZilla5]

You know what would be neat? If we could toggle off and on whatever assist trophies we want. We know that certain assist trophies can't appear on certain stages so I imagine it would not be too hard to add a toggle option. This would get rid of some of the annoyingly useless ones and allows you to use your favorites (Imagine all the Wahhhs!).

 

[SNEKeater]

Sakurai: Who else but Lloyd when it comes to Tales? Also Tales is massive in Japan and one of the biggest JRPG franchises.

Tales is a popular series and a notable JRPG franchise, no doubt, but actually Tales has been losing presence in the past years over there.

Also, being an important series doesn't guarantee nothing. Monster Hunter, Resident Evil, and others series, are examples of that.

2002年のきょう『ファイアーエムブレム 封印の剣』発売!!
なんと、日本でしか売っていません。
『スマブラDX』でロイを参戦させた時は、原作がまだ出ていませんでした。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/FlBpNwqdLW

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) March 29, 2021

2002 "Fire Emblem Sealed Sword" released today !! It's only sold in Japan. When Roy participated in "Smash Bros. DX", the original was not released yet. # Smash Bros SP

Let's celebrate with a cool epic track from Roy's game.

 

[Froggy]

Well, the DLC mostly leans towards what the Japanese want. Western-directed characters are usually in the base roster.

Assuming Steve was meant for last year's E3 then there has been a western char at every E3. I think that trend will continue

 

[chocolatejr9]

Is there something I should know about him?

Everything he says is wrong. That's the basics, anyway.

 

[7NATOR]

Actually, For those that are into the Glitch Theory, while Master Chief is a popular suggestion for the Dark Pit glitch, there is another Western Character it could fit for

Scorpion

The Iconic spear is Something that's known for Sticking into people, which is the big point about Dark Pit's glitch. They might also give Scorpion the ability to Aim the spear when bringing him over to Smash, which could perhaps go along with the properties of Dark Pit's Arrows

It's also possible the the projectile glitch could apply to Scorpion as well. Maybe when in an enraged state, he becomes more ghostly and consumed by Fire, and one of the properties is him being able to run through projectiles. However this is kind of a stretch, since I don't think that has been a thing ever in Mortal Kombat

I do believe Ed boon and Nintendo might have talked about Smash, especially since like Phil Spencer, Ed Boon has publicly shown interest in Smash, and Nintendo has shown interest in Mortal Kombat being on the Switch. I don't think though that Scorpion or any other Mortal Kombat character will be in FP2, anymore. I'm not counting it out, but I think discussions would probably lead into whatever the next game is

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Speaking of Glitch Theory, has it gotten any of the previous DLCs right?

Not sure if it counts but Banjo seemed to have used Ridley as a model.

 

[SpecterFlower]

you know i think im gonna predict who's not going to happen. idk i've slept for 52ish hours without sleep and i just feel like writing a random thought.

- First party Nintendo, i don't think maybe except ayumi there's really any thing new to put in. to smash.

- Another western character, idk im not feeling it

- Capcom, if not general capcom then specifically monster hunter

- Level 5, this company has Made themselves into a japan exclusive publisher and their games are unpopular and take 90% off sales to sell, they fell off a cliff and it's too late for them, they'll go out of business soon, it's clear neither Bamco or NItendo are interested in buying out the ip's as they would've already, it think the ip's are going to die with their company, i think layton and jibayan would be cool though, i really liked yo kai watch 2, one of my favourite 3ds games, i hope a miracle happens and they make a successful games so layton and yokai could continue.

- i think a bamco character is also unlikey execpt for yuri or llyod though im not feeling either of them either

- another microsoft character, i think steve i it as Cheif doesn't really have a horse in banjo vs steve, banjo was one of the most requested fighters and steve comes from the best selling game of all time i don't think cheif can compete

- i think we aren't getting mortal kombat, not family friendly, is bad maybe they could censor them too make them not bad and family friendly as they were.

i also didn't think i shaded my thoughts on pyra yet so here they are

I think sephiroth is better, he has a bigger sword but pyras down areail is very dumb, however sephiroth's is so much more fun to use.
side b for mythra loo's good but then is just an okay move, foresight is really dumb though it's basically witch time light

i have to write an essay now, it ins't going to go well, bye goodnight.

 

[Pillow]

Well, the DLC mostly leans towards what the Japanese want. Western-directed characters are usually in the base roster.

We’ve had most of our western characters come as DLC.

 

[RileyXY1]

We’ve had most of our western characters come as DLC.

We got just two, both from the same company. One was a massively popular fan request and the other was a representative of the literal best selling game of all time.

 

[Pillow]

We got just two, both from the same company. One was a massively popular fan request and the other was a representative of the literal best selling game of all time.

Sure? I was just disputing your comment that Western characters usually come in the base roster. Most the ones we've had have come as DLC.

 

[7NATOR]

We got just two, both from the same company. One was a massively popular fan request and the other was a representative of the literal best selling game of all time.

I mean, we could get more though

I do understand the apprehensiveness though. While it was shown that we can get Western content and characters, that doesn't mean that Working with Western companies is as easy as working with non-Western ones

Because of language barriers, and just different ways of doing things, I imagine working with Western companies takes quite a bit longer than Japanese Companies. And especially if you are going for the big Western characters like Crash, Master Chief, Scorpion, Jonsey, etc, I would imagine negotiations would take long time because I expect the companies to be particular about how their character is represented, and those details need ironing out between Nintendo and the Company

I mean, if you want to see how Language barrier is a real factor, just look at Fortnite. Every crossover they have is between something that's Western based. even Street fighter is owned by the U.S Division of Capcom

This doesn't mean that no more Western character in this pass, they may have been able to Negotiate with a Western company in time for FP2 to be finalized. I imagine Western Indies might have an easier time in this forefront since I imagine there aren't as many details to talk through like with full blown Western Companies.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Sure? I was just disputing your comment that Western characters usually come in the base roster. Most the ones we've had have come as DLC.

We also haven’t actually had any Western characters in the base roster; made by Western people, yeah, but not owned. We’ve technically already had the former as far back as Brawl (Diddy Kong) or N64 if you wanna get technical with Donkey Kong’s design, lore and stuff in general.

Personally I think more Western characters are definitely possible; I’m not sure on the chances of any character in particular, though, including Japanese characters, so not gonna speak about that.

 

[RileyXY1]

Sure? I was just disputing your comment that Western characters usually come in the base roster. Most the ones we've had have come as DLC.

I was talking about characters that appealed more towards the Western audience, such as Little Mac and Ridley.

 

[RGFS]

We're close to the end with these final two... weird. Prediction Time!

Challenger 10: Crash with a possible Coco echo fighter. I don't think you need to hear from someone for the billionth time why they think Crash is likely. (Mii wave includes Lloyd as he and Crash both have spiky hair, blue pants, red shoes, multiple magical abilities, and a blonde female ally.)

Challenger 11: Some sort of more realistic gunner with reloading. Could be from Half-life, Halo, GTA, Resident Evil, etc. Whatever. I just feel a gunner with a moveset that requires them to reload a bunch of different weapons could be something unique and different Sakurai and the team would want to tackle. Especially since it would force the character to play more up close and not just camp.
(With that said, I don't think FPS is a genre Sakurai is particularly inching to tackle though as we have Duck Hunt, Samus, and Banjo-Kazooie. It could be any gunner.)

We get those two in June with one released around that time and the other released many months after.

Bonus: They throw in a few echo fighters for good measure since they had extra time. (Dixie, Shadow, etc.) Echo/clone characters are always made by the end of development as a bonus so I could see this actually happening. This is only if this is truly the end and they don't start making some other Smash game right after like Smash 4 which would be very unlikely.
I know, I know. Smash doesn't always have the strongest endings (Though some of you don't give Bayonetta, Piranha Plant, or the World of Light reveal enough credit for ending on something big.) This may be the true end of Smash Bros, unlike other Smash games especially 4 which led directly to Ultimate. Nintendo understands ending things well considering they sometimes do the "One more thing..." bit.

Final Thoughts: Is having two westerns back to back this a little too bold?? Yeah maybe, but at this point, we got two JRPG sword users so why not? Looking at everything we've gotten for Ultimate, it makes me feel like this is still likely and plausible. I don't believe there's a true anti-western bias. Considering we've gotten multiple western characters show up in multiple forms like spirits, assist trophies, mii costumes, and now finally more as fighters. It probably took so long since Smash is mainly Nintendo fighters and a lot of these Japanese fighters were series more noteworthy. Even then, Donkey Kong the Third was made by the West and is the second character we ever got in Smash, it's likely not a big deal.

 

[SWSU]

Glitch theory doesn't really mean anything. Since you can just make up any stretchy pick.

Like for the Dark Pit glitch. You could simply say its a hint to Crash Bandicoot because he uses the Fruit Bazooka and aims it in that way. You can make any sort of connections for any kind of character.

 

[PSIGuy]

Fighter Pass 2 having multiple Western characters because of negotiation (specifically, translation and communication) difficulty seems possible. Steve took long to negotiate, so similarly big Western characters with a lot of brand power could take similarly long. Then again, we've only seen Fighters from Microsoft so maybe no-one else wants to play ball with Nintendo.

 

[Koopaul]

There's no anti-Western bias its just easier to work with people who speak the same language. So, generally speaking, Japanese characters are always more likely.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I don’t think that we will see a pure western-centric or japanese centric character. I mean, someone from whose game didn’t got released worldwide. I think that any character must have some popularity everywhere to be considered for smash.

It’s difficult to know but lt may be possible that even some fighters like Banjo or Ridley were requested in Japan. Its true that their huge demand came from the west but its reception in japan was, probably, also great.

 

[RGFS]

There's no anti-Western bias its just easier to work with people who speak the same language. So, generally speaking, Japanese characters are always more likely.

Yeah sure, but we still got multiple spirits, mii costumes, assist trophies, and music from western series from different developers. It likely can't be too much of a hassle. Smash is a worldwide game, Nintendo is a worldwide company with divisions all around the world. It's a bit harder for Sakurai because of the language barrier but if they want to do something, they do it. Sakurai isn't gonna be against doing something just because it is difficult.

Fighter Pass 2 having multiple Western characters because of negotiation (specifically, translation and communication) difficulty seems possible. Steve took long to negotiate, so similarly big Western characters with a lot of brand power could take similarly long. Then again, we've only seen Fighters from Microsoft so maybe no-one else wants to play ball with Nintendo.

Love your theory. Though, I don't think it's that complicated given what I've said in the reply above. Steve's talk began 5 years ago but we don't know when that became serious. Sakurai said he wasn't sure the day would ever come and they had to retroactively go back to all the stages in Ultimate just for Steve. Minecraft taking so long was probably a byproduct of Smash Ultimate being too busy already during normal development, Banjo being prioritized first, and Sakurai deciding he could do Minecraft justice in Smash. I think taking 5 years to happen had more to do with all that instead of a language barrier or the overall magnitude of Minecraft.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Yeah sure, but we still got multiple spirits, mii costumes, assist trophies, and music from western series from different developers. It likely can't be too much of a hassle. Smash is a worldwide game, Nintendo is a worldwide company with divisions all around the world. It's a bit harder for Sakurai because of the language barrier but if they want to do something, they do it. Sakurai isn't gonna be against doing something just because it is difficult.



Love your theory. Though, I don't think it's that complicated given what I've said in the reply above. Steve's talk began 5 years ago but we don't know when that became serious. Sakurai said he wasn't sure the day would ever come and they had to retroactively go back to all the stages in Ultimate just for Steve. Minecraft taking so long was probably a byproduct of Smash Ultimate being too busy already during normal development, Banjo being prioritized first, and Sakurai deciding he could do Minecraft justice in Smash. I think taking 5 years to happen had more to do with all that instead of a language barrier or the overall magnitude of Minecraft.

Yeah, I don’t think it was 5 years of negotiations. I bet the idea was floated around for a bit before getting serious. I bet there was a lot of back & forth on how to actually make Steve work too. The character had a lot of possibilities so I bet it took Sakurai & Mojang a while to discuss what would work well to simultaneously represent Minecraft positively while also being fun for Smash.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Yeah, I don’t think it was 5 years of negotiations. I bet the idea was floated around for a bit before getting serious. I bet there was a lot of back & forth on how to actually make Steve work too. The character had a lot of possibilities so I bet it took Sakurai & Mojang a while to discuss what would work well to simultaneously represent Minecraft positively while also being fun for Smash.

Don’t forget the whole music fiasco either, I bet a good portion of time was spent on trying to unravel that mess.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

That also could just be the Assist Trophy version of Rathalos.

Rathalos actually can't be summoned on the Spear Pillar which is where that screenshot takes place so yeah, Sakurai and his debug mode are at it again.