Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[drag0nscythe]

I was predicting we wouldn't get Hayabusa or Crash anyway. My best guess is Rayman and King Boo.

My current guesses are Crash for an e3 announcement and a Nintendo rep of some sort as the final DLC character. because nintendo never ends anything on a bang.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Predicting Master Chief as our E3 reveal. Nintendo and Microsoft managed to make a 3-way deal of Banjo, Steve, and Master Chief as a E3 Trilogy.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Predicting Master Chief as our E3 reveal. Nintendo and Microsoft managed to make a 3-way deal of Banjo, Steve, and Master Chief as a E3 Trilogy.

I would not complain about Master Chief. Halo music is really good.

 

[Will]

There are different degrees of caution. No I'm not sure either way, but it's POSSIBLE that this could count against him. I see a lot of people echoing the same thing. The person you quoted even said it "could" be a telling sign. Clearly not a definitive answer.

But the collective thoughts are still "to be safe, take this 1% chance as a 100% deconfirm", right? You see where I disagree?

I just leave it as it is, not here nor there, he's just not there until he gets there. There's no hype, there's no breaking down, it's just left as is and not dictated as one way or another until we see it ourselves. No need to kick him out of speculation based off of a chance, that's silly.

 

[Megadoomer]

I dont really care for Ryu Hayabusa. He is a niche character from the 90s to me. People only yell his importance because of their childhood, like Banjo. He seems prime for Mii Costume to me.

I didn't even play a Ninja Gaiden game until 2020 (I bought Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge on the Wii U because I read that it was easy), but it seems to me like Koei-Tecmo is one of the last big Japanese developers that isn't in Smash yet. (there's also Arc System Works, but I'm not sure if they're "big") Between that and his history stretching back to the NES days (with fairly consistent releases in between with the modern action titles and Dead Or Alive), I can see why people think he's likely or important.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So I've been thinking about what might happen for Mii costumes after Lloyd's costume gets revealed since it's the last Smash 4 mii costume that has yet to come back and afterwards there will be no more Smash 4 third party mii costumes to bring back. Do you think they'll do something special for Challenger pack 11 where instead of releasing four mii costumes, they instead release four fan favourite characters as echo fighters to fill in the empty spots? Granted I'm not crazy on the idea of having more echo fighters but I don't know, seems like something that could be possible.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

It's just sarcasm, I'm not assaulting you.

Also, that's very sus. You're following "we don't know how NDA's work" with "it could be a telling sign", implying that we know how it works? C'mon, at least say you'd rather it be the end for Hayabusa if you want it that way, no harm in opinions.

I didn't imply anything one way or the other. I simply said it could
I'm neutral on the character, but your comments towards me imply way more that a bias is on your end rather than mine, I'm simply saying this is something to keep in mind since we've seen similar things happen before.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So I've been thinking about what might happen for Mii costumes after Lloyd's costume gets revealed. Do you think they'll do something special for Challenger pack 11 where instead of releasing four mii costumes, they instead release four fan favourite characters as echo fighters to fill in the empty spots? Granted I'm not crazy on the idea of having more echo fighters but I don't know, seems like something that could be possible.

Reminder when going onto the Classic Mode character select, the entire roster is full which the Miis aren't available.

Doubtful we're getting anything else after these two characters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

My current guesses are Crash for an e3 announcement and a Nintendo rep of some sort as the final DLC character. because nintendo never ends anything on a bang.

I don’t think a Nintendo character is needed for that last statement to be true for this pass. was the last Smash 4 DLC character and compared to, she wasn’t seen as a huge bang back in December 2015. We could get someone like Sol Badguy or Adol Christin as the last character and that statement would still be true.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

Reminder when going onto the Classic Mode character select, the entire roster is full which the Miis aren't available.

Doubtful we're getting anything else after these two characters.

I'm not really thinking we're getting anything past this second pass, but that's not really a good reason as to why it won't happen.

 

[Will]

I didn't imply anything one way or the other. I simply said it could
I'm neutral on the character, but your comments towards me imply way more that a bias is on your end rather than mine, I'm simply saying this is something to keep in mind since we've seen similar things happen before.

We've seen similar, but the instances have gone either way before and we know this. It's 50/50.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Man I chose the perfect time to drop Hayabusa from my final two predictions.

Currently going Crash and a Falcom rep. I would prefer Adol but with the Trails of Cold Steel ports I could see Rean chosen...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

At any rate, my prediction is that the pass will end on any two from this list:

• Arle Nadja
• Crash Bandicoot
• Reimu Hakurei
• Ahri/a League of Legends character
• Falcom character (betting Estelle or Rean)
• A Namco character that PROBABLY isn’t Lloyd (that Mii WILL come back, mark my words)
• Octoling (Splatoon 3 coming; no OE or Splatoon 2 Hero mode music in base; only OE spirits are both related to the protagonist, Agent 8. And no I still don’t count the Squid Sisters Miis against them, Pythra came with ZERO Xenoblade costumes and Byleth with ZERO Fire Emblem costumes)
• Ayumi Tachibana (wanted since the first Smash according to Sakurai, FDC getting a worldwide release)
• Neku Sakuraba, IF AND ONLY IF Square double dips this pass. Considering how Sora’s seemingly out I want to believe that after negotiations for Sephiroth wrapped up Sak was like “hey what about this Neku fella he’s close enough to sora” PLEASE LET ME BELIEVE
• Some other curveball we’ve been sleeping on

 

[Louie G.]

I’ll say it again, I wish people would stop asking about Smash in interviews. It just puts the person in an uncomfortable position and makes things annoying for everyone regardless of what they say.

I still run into people who believe Arle was disconfirmed because the director of Puyo, after being explicitly asked, said he would like Arle in Smash. Obviously ridiculous, as if people expect these game directors to freeze up and stay totally silent until they move to the next question. NDA is likely a lot different than these people think.

Koei Tecmo “waiting for an invitation” or whatever could mean multiple things. It could mean they’re waiting for Nintendo to ask, or they could be waiting for Hayabusa’s trailer to release. It’s a vague and cheeky answer that should be treated as a nothingburger. But I know that talking about Hayabusa is going to get a thousand times more annoying now.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Given the Lloyd Mii is likely to return as with all other Sm4sh Miis have. That could give us a guess who the next character could be given the theme pattern we've been getting. Depending if E3 Month one could perhaps think Sora being JRPG and a swordfighter?

Perhaps Dovahkiin or Chosen Undead perhaps? I'd argue the latter is kinda big. Another Tales rep like Yuri?

If say like May however perhaps someone like Adol is a good guess.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm beginning to join the camp that resents these interview deconfirms. "Well if they're under NDA they can't talk about Smash!" We've seen otherwise; Kirkhope for Banjo and Kazooie, SNK bringing up Golfords dog. Also Matthew Mercer and Chrom apparently but I need context for that. Thing is, this was a non-answer that neither confirms or denies Hayabusa's inclusion. I don't really care about Hayabusa, personally, but come on. You guys are jumping to "He dead" way too quickly.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I didn't even play a Ninja Gaiden game until 2020, but it seems to me like Koei-Tecmo is one of the last big Japanese developers that isn't in Smash yet. (there's also Arc System Works, but I'm not sure if they're "big") Between that, his history stretching back to the NES days, and Ryu Hayabusa seeming like the most likely pick for a Koei-Tecmo character (it seems like picking anyone other than Sonic as the first Sega character), I can see why people think he's likely.

I would argue this thinking is a fallacy. Just because a big company is missing does not mean it requires representation. Sony is a massive company. we will never get a rep from them. And many characters have a history with nintendo.

Given Hayabusa's position, he "feels" like prime mii costume territory to me. But that is subjective. With Akira, Altair, Bomberman, Cuphead, Goemon, Heihachi, Iori, Monster Hunter, X, Zero, Arthur all being large names (region specific included), he fits in with that bunch.

 

[Brother AJ]

View attachment 308482
"Your honour, my client has not said anything that would even imply a non-disclosure agreement has been made and clearly was just asked if they would like their character. Now if you excuse me, I need to check my mail, Maya's been pestering me that this letter I got is a big deal so I'll have to check it out and sue her for opening and reading my mail"

I've got to hand it to you, that was pretty good. Bravo. I've really got to play Ace Attorney...

But the collective thoughts are still "to be safe, take this 1% chance as a 100% deconfirm", right? You see where I disagree?

I just leave it as it is, not here nor there, he's just not there until he gets there. There's no hype, there's no breaking down, it's just left as is and not dictated as one way or another until we see it ourselves. No need to kick him out of speculation based off of a chance, that's silly.

I get what you're saying, but I think there's just as many people on the side of: This doesn't eliminate his chances. Even if they think it might hurt his chances.

Personally, I feel like a "no comment" would've been better in said interview.

 

[SharkLord]

• Octoling (Splatoon 3 coming; no OE or Splatoon 2 Hero mode music in base; only OE spirits are both related to the protagonist, Agent 8. And no I still don’t count the Squid Sisters Miis against them, Pythra came with ZERO Xenoblade costumes and Byleth with ZERO Fire Emblem costumes)

But did we get any FE and Xeno Miis before Byleth and Pyra? If there were Miis from their series, they'd be reserved for that pack. There weren't any Miis at all, so they just didn't get reserved. Would it make sense to drop, say, Sigurd or Lyn Miis in Banjo's pack and not include them with Byleth, the actual Fire Emblem character?

 

[Louie G.]

I would argue this thinking is a fallacy. Just because a big company is missing does not mean it requires representation. Sony is a massive company. we will never get a rep from them. And many characters have a history with nintendo.

I’m not saying it has to come in the form of a playable character, but I think this is downplaying just how significant Koei Tecmo has been for Nintendo. It’s not just another company on the laundry list of developers that have brushed shoulders with Nintendo, it’s a company that has consistently been working right alongside them on various Switch titles through its lifespan, entrusted with two of its more prominent IPs. They are probably their single most significant partner at the moment.

Which doesn’t guarantee a character... but no Mii costumes at least? All the content that KT technically has in Smash also belonging partially to Nintendo? It’s just ****ing weird. It’s not a matter of like “owing” them anything or whatever but it’s something that I think is valid to point out as a bit of an anomaly for now. I’m sure they have something else coming, full character or otherwise.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

But did we get any FE and Xeno Miis before Byleth and Pyra? If there were Miis from their series, they'd be reserved for that pack. There weren't any Miis at all, so they just didn't get reserved. Would it make sense to drop, say, Sigurd or Lyn Miis in Banjo's pack and not include them with Byleth, the actual Fire Emblem character?

We DID get the Rex Mii as a bonus for buying pass 1 in its entirety. Sure it’s a bonus linked to the pass itself, unobtainable any other way, but IMO it still counts AND was shown in Pythra’s trailer

 

[Wunderwaft]

Ryu is one of my most wanted but I'll still say his outlook is not looking good currently. We have two characters left to be revealed and we have a butt ton of viable and possible character picks. Like come on there are a dozen characters that are in the same situation as Hayabusa where we thought were likely and a dev interview kinda threw a wrench at things.

Call it jumping into conclusions or whatever but I'm lumping Hayabusa into the soft-deconfirm catergory alongside every other character that had their devs speak about them in regards to Smash. We're literally in the endgame when it comes to Smash speculation now that there are only two characters left, even the slightest hit towards a character's chances is enough to harm their chances quite badly.

 

[Ridrool64]

The only two true predictions I have are as follows:

#1: It will be two characters that we write off for something that contemporarily makes sense, but in hindsight will look like a ridiculous reason to dismiss a character. It will be celebrated as a busted "fan rule" as if the fans say "you must be this X to be a good pick for Smash", even though we had no reason to expect the trend not to continue.

#2: They will have nothing in common besides minute details with the previous four characters. Console of origin, year of origin are stuff that don't matter, but demographic appeal, franchise, possibly owning company for third parties, possibly genre outside of platformer and RPG, and other stuff like that probably do matter. Inevitably, we'll try to find a way to shoehorn the next two characters into our own pre-existing theories about the final character and the next set of newcomers, be it in Volume 3 or the next console's Smash game.

Aside from that, it could be most things.

 

[SharkLord]

We DID get the Rex Mii as a bonus for buying pass 1 in its entirety. Sure it’s a bonus linked to the pass itself, unobtainable any other way, but IMO it still counts AND was shown in Pythra’s trailer

That was available from day one. Nia was in the base game too, and you weren't even buying the Rex Mii separately; It was a free bonus with FP1. The Rex Mii's in a unique spot, but in the end it leans towards base game rather than DLC. The Squid Sisters, on the other hand, came out at the beginning of FP2; If there was a Splatoon pack, the decision would've been made with taht in mind.

 

[Sigran101]

But the collective thoughts are still "to be safe, take this 1% chance as a 100% deconfirm", right? You see where I disagree?

I just leave it as it is, not here nor there, he's just not there until he gets there. There's no hype, there's no breaking down, it's just left as is and not dictated as one way or another until we see it ourselves. No need to kick him out of speculation based off of a chance, that's silly.

We've seen similar, but the instances have gone either way before and we know this. It's 50/50.

So after you get called out for being biased it goes from a 1% chance of deconfirming to 50/50?

 

[AreJay25]

Personally, I feel like a "no comment" would've been better in said interview.

I really don't see how after the same thing was said in interviews regarding Travis and Fortnite.

You're just going to make people jump to conclusions that ultimately don't come to fruition. Fact of the matter is that you can't win when you're asked this question in an interview.

 

[cashregister9]

Other's have mentioned this but the question

"Will X Appear in smash?"

Is a dumb and bad question because the interviewer knows damn well they can't get a straight answer and pretty much all they are doing is putting the interviewee on the spot for no reason.

 

[Brother AJ]

I really don't see how after the same thing was said in interviews regarding Travis and Fortnite.

You're just going to make people jump to conclusions that ultimately don't come to fruition. Fact of the matter is that you can't win when you're asked this question in an interview.

I mean honestly a "no comment" shouldn't illicit that sort of reaction. Smash fans are just... kind of ridiculous.

 

[chocolatejr9]

• Some other curveball we’ve been sleeping on

I'm running out of ways to say you all are sleeping on Euden...

 

[Louie G.]

I mean honestly a "no comment" shouldn't illicit that sort of reaction. Smash fans are just... kind of ridiculous.

Well the alternative is something like this, so when the community flocks to take any other statement as a disconfirmation it makes sense to raise an eyebrow at something as straight edge as "no comment", seeing how most developers jump at the opportunity to at least voice their support of their characters in Smash. Particularly in the case of Travis, where that response was completely out of character for Suda and did end up playing out... just not as a full playable character.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm running out of ways to say you all are sleeping on Euden...

Well, including him would alienate the European audience, so I don't expect him.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Hoo boy. I think people are getting way too worked up over this.

Look, the answer is obviously not as definitive as Doom Slayer's was, but at the same time I feel like treating this as a hit against Hayabusa is decently reasonable. Because the character selection is already done, so from here, there's only two outcomes: either they were telling the truth and Nintendo didn't approach them or they were being cheeky under an NDA and Ryu is in. It's one or the other, so people betting one certain way shouldn't be seen as unreasonable.

Does this interview invalidate Koei's relationship with Nintendo, Ninja Gaiden's legacy or any other reason why Hayabusa should/could be in? Heck no! And no one should prevent you from bringing up Hayabusa after this, speculation for kiddy party fighting game should be fun, if nothing else.

But please, don't bash people for taking a stance on this. Hell, most people I've seen siding with "this disconfirms" so far were Hayabusa supporters.

 

[cashregister9]

Well, including him would alienate the European audience, so I don't expect him.

Did Lucas alienate the entire Western Audience?

not really.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I’m not saying it has to come in the form of a playable character, but I think this is downplaying just how significant Koei Tecmo has been for Nintendo. It’s not just another company on the laundry list of developers that have brushed shoulders with Nintendo, it’s a company that has consistently been working right alongside them on various Switch titles through its lifespan, entrusted with two of its more prominent IPs. They are probably their single most significant partner at the moment.

Which doesn’t guarantee a character... but no Mii costumes at least? All the content that KT technically has in Smash also belonging partially to Nintendo? It’s just ****ing weird. It’s not a matter of like “owing” them anything or whatever but it’s something that I think is valid to point out as a bit of an anomaly for now. I’m sure they have something else coming, full character or otherwise.

That is still a fallacy. Just because there are ties does not mean content. We may get a mii costume soon, we do not know. I do agree it does not guarantee a character.

 

[Sigran101]

After 3 years of Futaba I finally changed my avatar. What do y'all think of the new one?

 

[Opossum]

We DID get the Rex Mii as a bonus for buying pass 1 in its entirety. Sure it’s a bonus linked to the pass itself, unobtainable any other way, but IMO it still counts AND was shown in Pythra’s trailer

For all intents and purposes, the Rex costume was base game content held off for DLC and should be treated as such, like Piranha Plant.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Be a realist. As a Hayabusa supporter the possibility of your most wanted being one of the remaining two spots is like, incredibly slim.

However, I also think we should stop reading into interviews. By this point the entire industry knows that we look at them for disconfirm and they likely mean absolutely nothing

 

[chocolatejr9]

Well, including him would alienate the European audience, so I don't expect him.

Would it, though?

After 3 years of Futaba I finally changed my avatar. What do y'all think of the new one?

I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE ANYMORE!!!!!!!

 

[RileyXY1]

Did Lucas alienate the entire Western Audience?

not really.

In Lucas's case, he wouldn't have even been in Smash in the first place if Sakurai had known beforehand that the game wasn't going to be localized, and he was a base game addition which is different.

 

[Opossum]

Did Lucas alienate the entire Western Audience?

not really.

The issue with that is that Sakurai only added Lucas because he thought Mother 3 would be localized. Then it wasn't localized. It's also almost certainly why he was so low in priority for Smash 4.