Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Shroob]

I mean that sounds more pathetic than I expected.. from the fans. I mean Sakurai is the kind of person who always respected the era where their series is at the highest peak, you can tell how much he pander for SF2 and WarioWare in Smash and for modern Kirby I mean all the game is good but it doesn't really the same as like say Breath of the Wild as the turning point in the series. The classic game itself is already a good enough example for the series. God, this the Kanto/Gen 1 pandering complain all over again.

Except Pokemon has a ton of variance in its stages in regards to Gens. We have 2 Gen 4 stages and a Gen 6 stage.

As does Zelda. We have god knows how many Zelda games as stages, both new and old.

And Mario. Countless different Mario stages.

And hell, Fire Emblem has at least Awakening and 3 Houses as recognizable locales.


Kirby's is all his run. We don't have anything post Super Star as a stage, nada, that's it. Kirby's representation ends with the SNES.


You say SF and Warioware, but SF and Warioware both only have 1 stage, and Ken pulls HEAVILY from SF3, not only to say both have moves from SF4 as their Down+B.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Or maybe people just like the modern Kirby games and want to see something from it? If people like something, they'd want to see it represented. It's not at all pathetic to just want more expanded representation than just the three games over and over again.

Everyone always use the "Sakurai only cares about the game that he made" card which I honestly can't take that really seriously. Kirby series is like that one series that's just come and go kinda like Star Fox if the series is still alive that is.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Stuff like Planet Robobot would make for an amazing stage... instead we get Great Cave Offensive.

I mean, Great Cave Offensive was from Smash 4, I don't think Planet Robobot was released when Smash 4 was in development. As for Ultimate, I think that's just the unfortunate side effect of Mario and Zelda being the only veteran series to get new stages in the base game.

Aside from Kirby and Dedede's FS, and some spirits, everything Kirby-related is pulled from Sakurai's run on the Kirby series, which, I mean, c'mon, we get it, you made Kirby, but some of the new games are legitimately really good and it feels like you're going out of your way to ignore them.

There's also plenty of music from the modern games in Smash.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Warioware

Gamer is a WarioWare stage too, don't forget.

 

[Commander_Alph]

There's also plenty of music from the modern games in Smash.

And music, but who am I thinking that's less noticable than a literal stage

 

[Shroob]

Gamer is a WarioWare stage too, don't forget.

I try to forget Gamer exists tbh, but fair. That's still a different Warioware installment on a completely different console.

 

[Perkilator]

I don't think Planet Robobot was released when Smash 4 was in development. I think that's just the unfortunate side effect of Mario and Zelda being the only veteran series to get new stages in the base game.

No, but it was released when Ultimate started to go into development.

Yet another reason why I wish Ultimate had more of a balance between old and new stages.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Except Pokemon has a ton of variance in its stages in regards to Gens. We have 2 Gen 4 stages and a Gen 6 stage.

As does Zelda. We have god knows how many Zelda games as stages, both new and old.

And Mario. Countless different Mario stages.

And hell, Fire Emblem has at least Awakening and 3 Houses as recognizable locales.


Kirby's is all his run. We don't have anything post Super Star as a stage, nada, that's it. Kirby's representation ends with the SNES.


You say SF and Warioware, but SF and Warioware both only have 1 stage, and Ken pulls HEAVILY from SF3, not only to say both have moves from SF4 as their Down+B.

It sucks too. There's a ton of cool Kirby areas that are very usable. We almost got Epic Yarn.

At least Bandanna Waddle Dee is kind of based upon his later appearances, but he still had his design from the SNES. It's just the personality/etc. that came later.

...It also helps that it's labeled WarioWare and not simply Wario, so it doesn't have to worry about Wario Land at all(not that there's nothing from it). SF could use another stage, though, at this point. Don't we have two WarioWare stages now? Ninja'd on Gamer. I do remember that one, though(just not the name of it, heh).

 

[JCKirbs]

I mean that sounds more pathetic than I expected.. from the fans. I mean Sakurai is the kind of person who always respected the era where their series is at the highest peak, you can tell how much he pander for SF2 and WarioWare in Smash and for modern Kirby I mean all the game is good but it doesn't really the same as like say Breath of the Wild as the turning point in the series. The classic game itself is already a good enough example for the series. God, this the Kanto/Gen 1 pandering complain all over again.


If you know Kirby's highest legacy then you know why.

I never thought I'd ever be deemed as "pathetic" for simply wanting more out of one of my favorite Nintendo franchises in a game like Smash, but okay.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

No, but it was released when Ultimate started to go into development.

Yet another reason why I wish Ultimate had more of a balance between old and new stages.

Yeah, that's why I said it was more of the side effect of Mario and Zelda being the only veteran series to get new stages in the base game. Even if a veteran series got a recent new game, the game literally had to be as big as Mario Odyssey or Breath of the Wild to warrant a new stage, those are some tall odds.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

In general, yeah. You can't change fighters on the fly, so if Random Button gives you someone you don't like you've gotta go back and redo it.

I think KSSU counts. That was the first game where Shinya Kumazaki took the helm, and it introduced numerous staples of the modern Kirby era; Extra Modes, The True Arena, numerous expanded Copy Abilities, "Soul" bosses, so on and so forth. RtDL was the first chapter of Kumazaki's run, but KSSU was the prologue and should be counted in there was well.

In previous games, selecting a random character would move the character select icon to a random character's icon. A player had to perform another action to proceed to the stage select screen.

 

[Shroob]

To me, it kinda says a lot when Donkey Kong, Metroid, and Star Fox, 3 franchises that I'd argue are smaller than Kirby, all got new stages in 4 WiiU(Albeit stages that didn't return in Ultimate for one reason or another), and all stages from their most recent game, and Kirby's stage was from the SNES... and the stage on 3DS was literally the first installment on the Gameboy.

 

[Commander_Alph]

You say SF and Warioware, but SF and Warioware both only have 1 stage, and Ken pulls HEAVILY from SF3, not only to say both have moves from SF4 as their Down+B.

I mean Ken's big moment is 3rd Strike with that EVO moment but his reason for making him an echo goes all the way back to SF2, if Dee got in I bet my buttcheek that will satisfy your needs.

I never thought I'd ever be deemed as "pathetic" for simply wanting more out of one of my favorite Nintendo franchises in a game like Smash, but okay.

I mean if you constantly say "Love and Notice me" like a needy kid then.. you know but aight then.

 

[ZelDan]

Everyone always use the "Sakurai only cares about the game that he made" card which I honestly can't take that really seriously. Kirby series is like that one series that's just come and go kinda like Star Fox if the series is still alive that is.

Modern Kirby games (Modern Kirby I'm guessing being Return to Dreamland and any game after it) have been extremely well received by the Kirby fanbase and the games have clearly been doing well for Nintendo to have continued interest in the series. Kirby might not be an "A-Lister" like Mario or Pokemon but he's still pretty high up the Nintendo totem pole compared to god knows how many IPs Nintendo has had over the years. I think Kirby is alot more at this point than a "series that just sorta happens."

 

[Mushroomguy12]

To me, it kinda says a lot when Donkey Kong, Metroid, and Star Fox, 3 franchises that I'd argue are smaller than Kirby, all got new stages in 4 WiiU(Albeit stages that didn't return in Ultimate for one reason or another), and all stages from their most recent game, and Kirby's stage was from the SNES... and the stage on 3DS was literally the first installment on the Gameboy.

Well, Kirby got two new stages, one in the Wii U version and one in the 3DS version, while DK, Metroid, and Star Fox only got one new stage in the Wii U version and only got returning stages in the 3DS version.

Also I'd argue with that idea of DK being smaller than Kirby.

 

[Shroob]

Well, Kirby got two new stages, one in the Wii U version and one in the 3DS version, while DK, Metroid, and Star Fox only got one new stage in the Wii U version and only got returning stages in the 3DS version.

Also I'd argue with that idea of DK being smaller than Kirby.

I'd say it's debatable tbh.

DK went away for a long time until Returns, really, only getting stuff like Konga, Jungle Beat and King of Swing. We didn't get a traditional DK game until Returns.

Meanwhile, Kirby thrived on the GBA and DS.

 

[ZelDan]

Comparing DK to Kirby is kinda awkward.

Kirby obviously gets games more consistently, but DK I believe has had better selling games. Granted, the games that sold better were the SNES games, while I am uncertain how well Returns or Tropical Freeze did. Does anyone actually have numbers or some idea to how the Retro DK games did in terms of sales?

 

[JCKirbs]

I mean if you constantly say "Love and Notice me" like a needy kid then.. you know but aight then.

...What does that even mean?
I fail to see how wanting a thorough chunk of the Kirby series represented through just a bit more than mere PNG images and a handful of music tracks is being too "needy".

 

[Shroob]

I mean, let's also dial it back here and "Series at its highest peak".

Let's just look at Zelda here, and like...


I wouldn't call Zelda 2 or Skyward Sword the "Series at its highest peak", and yet Zelda has arguably the best representation of stages from various points in time, be it Zelda 2, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, Spirit Tracks, Skyward Sword, and Breath of the Wild.


I know Zelda suffers in the character department in terms of representation, but Zelda has a LOT of stage representation, from both its highest highs, and lows.


Meanwhile: Kirby's Dreamland, Kirby's Adventure, Kirby Super Star. Hell, even the World of Light sub-area and Boss are modeled after Super Star.

 

[PSIGuy]

reminder that Tropical Freeze sold like a million copies on Wii U and then several million copies on Switch and it has 2 songs in Smash, one being J U N G L E J A P E S (but at least it's the best version and by David Wise himself)
lots of series just have weird representation in Smash, usually due to a combination of their Smash 4 stages not returning and getting relatively little content from their new releases otherwise.

 

[dream1ng]

I think you have to have your head in the sand to not see the Kirby series skews overwhelmingly heavily towards the games Sakurai made to the exclusion of other characters, stages, ATs and items. You're also going to see an imbalance in music and spirits.

 

[ZelDan]

reminder that Tropical Freeze sold like a million copies on Wii U and then several million copies on Switch and it has 2 songs in Smash, one being J U N G L E J A P E S (but at least it's the best version and by David Wise himself)
lots of series just have weird representation in Smash, usually due to a combination of their Smash 4 stages not returning and getting relatively little content from their new releases otherwise.

Huh, Figured the Switch version of DKCTF would have sold much better but damn.

Definitely helps my previous point about Kirby vs. DK.

 

[Mamboo07]

I'm starting to die so much on the inside due to Kirby not having representation from the modern games.

 

[BlondeLombax]

... yeah, not poking the proverbial penguin tonight.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I mean that sounds more pathetic than I expected.. from the fans. I mean Sakurai is the kind of person who always respected the era where their series is at the highest peak, you can tell how much he pander for SF2 and WarioWare in Smash and for modern Kirby I mean all the game is good but it doesn't really the same as like say Breath of the Wild as the turning point in the series. The classic game itself is already a good enough example for the series. God, this the Kanto/Gen 1 pandering complain all over again.


If you know Kirby's highest legacy then you know why.

This sounds like an uncool boomer take ngl.

New Kirby games have done just as good if not much better than the old ones, y’know. As for Pokémon, Gen 1 was already beat more than once.

 

[ARandomZoomer]

Something I'd like to note is that people have different entries to series as well. The first game that I ever beat was Kirby Super Star Ultra and while I'm still a fan of the series I haven't gone and played any Kirby game older than SSU. Is it so bad that I would like to see content in smash that closer matches my Kirby experience?

 

[DarthEnderX]

I fail to see how wanting a thorough chunk of the Kirby series represented through just a bit more than mere PNG images and a handful of music tracks is being too "needy".

There are starving game franchises in Africa who have to go to sleep with no Smash representation at all.

 

[Shroob]

There are starving game franchises in Africa who have to go to sleep with no Smash representation at all.

"Think about the Golden Sun/Advanced Wars/Rhythm Heaven fans? Why? What have they ever done for me?"

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

There are starving game franchises in Africa who have to go to sleep with no Smash representation at all.

Alright, fine. I’ll stop asking for Porky

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Anyone else triggered by the implication that WarioWare is better than Wario Land?

 

[ForsakenM]

Does Lara Croft count? For being one of THE female video game protagonists, she sure is overlooked...

I think it's less that she's overlooked and more that she was oogled too much back in the day and her redesign is hated for no real reason.

Like, the new games didn't so poorly by any means, but due to the passage of time I feel like most people look back at her and think her time was back then and that she never truly returned. It's weird but it really does seem that way.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I think it's less that she's overlooked and more that she was oogled too much back in the day and her redesign is hated for no real reason.

Like, the new games didn't so poorly by any means, but due to the passage of time I feel like most people look back at her and think her time was back then and that she never truly returned. It's weird but it really does seem that way.

Maybe people think she doesn't have very interesting moveset potential. I've only seen commercials for her, so I didn't know about the relics she could use until they were brought up here.

 

[Mamboo07]

Maybe people think she doesn't have very interesting moveset potential. I've only seen commercials for her, so I didn't know about the relics she could use until they were brought up here.

"Doesn't have very interesting moveset potential."
It's pretty much because of the guns she has.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Its not even the Modern Era of Kirby that is underrepresented, its literally any games Sakurai didn’t make. Aside from Spirits, The Dark Matter Trilogy isn’t represented either. Coincidentally, Amazing Mirror (The last game Sakurai worked on) got represented via Dark Meta Knights alt.

While Galacta Knight and Masked Dedede were made with no involvement from Sakurai, they both debuted in a Remake of Super Star, his favorite Kirby game that he made. The only non spirit thing I can think of from a Game Sakurai didn’t make is Kirbys FS.

I’m not even that big on a new Kirby fighter tbh. I just want a new stage and some assists.

 

[ForsakenM]

Its not even the Modern Era of Kirby that is underrepresented, its literally any games Sakurai didn’t make. Aside from Spirits, The Dark Matter Trilogy isn’t represented either. Coincidentally, Amazing Mirror (The last game Sakurai worked on) got represented via Dark Meta Knights alt.

While Galacta Knight and Masked Dedede were made with no involvement from Sakurai, they both debuted in a Remake of Super Star, his favorite Kirby game that he made. The only non spirit thing I can think of from a Game Sakurai didn’t make is Kirbys FS.

I’m not even that big on a new Kirby fighter tbh. I just want a new stage and some assists.

Never forget that Sakurai left the Kirby series because he felt it got too many games too fast and was essentially becoming quantity over quality, or at least it seems like he saw/still sees it that way. If that is the case, he COULD perhaps see anything past that as Nintendo twisting his creation into something that can toss out every year or so like CoD or AssCreed, in which case he never may pursue Kirby representation past what he has for fighters. I'm not sure how accurate that even could be, because I believe he's already included Kirby content other than fighters from games that fall into this category.

 

[zumaddy]

Man I love Kirby, both old and modern, but I've never ever really liked BWD, who is probs the most likely. The two I wanted pre-Ultimate were Marx (now a boss) and Susie (pipedream).

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Famitsu, Fumihiko Yasuda interview.

Q. So apparently some fans are waiting for Ryu to join a certain melee action game.
A. Us too are wating for an invitation letter (lol).

 

[7NATOR]

Famitsu, Fumihiko Yasuda interview.

Q. So apparently some fans are waiting for Ryu to join a certain melee action game.
A. Us too are wating for an invitation letter (lol).

Is this guy being interview related to Team Nija/Koei Tecmo?

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Is this guy being interview related to Team Nija/Koei Tecmo?

Yes, interview on Ninja Gaiden Master Collection.

 

[dream1ng]

Famitsu, Fumihiko Yasuda interview.

Q. So apparently some fans are waiting for Ryu to join a certain melee action game.
A. Us too are wating for an invitation letter (lol).

I get what's being said and who is saying it, but some more context and a link to the source would go a long way.