Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Otoad64]

Mate, this logic is terrible.


One-Winged Angel's most viewed, that I can find at least, video on YouTube has like 16 million views.


Meanwhile, I can find TONS of Touhou videos that either match or surpass that viewcount. Does that mean Touhou is more well known than FF7?

tbf if he hadn't included the "I've not seen a Video with Sephiroth that was this big" part then it would be sound logic, because that does mean that around 182 million people are familiar with them, that just doesn't mean they're neccesarily more well known then Sephiroth

 

[Lyncario]

Mate, this logic is terrible.


One-Winged Angel's most viewed, that I can find at least, video on YouTube has like 16 million views.


Meanwhile, I can find TONS of Touhou videos that either match or surpass that viewcount. Does that mean Touhou is more well known than FF7?

Well if we want to look at a more objecitve source of information, we have a very good one: the CNN! An official news network! And both Touhou and FF7 have been on there!

By all means and logic, due to both apearing on an incredibly objective and reliable source of information, we can deduce that Touhou and FF7 are as popular, known, and iconic as each others!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This argument is pointless because Smash has never been a pure contest of popularity and icon status. Factors like these matter, but relying on them too much is a reason that inevitably leads to disappointment.

 

[SharkLord]

Mate, this logic is terrible.


One-Winged Angel's most viewed, that I can find at least, video on YouTube has like 16 million views.


Meanwhile, I can find TONS of Touhou videos that either match or surpass that viewcount. Does that mean Touhou is more well known than FF7?

Well you see, Touhou and Final Fantasy VII run on different standards for their influence; The former through osmosis and fanworks, and the latter through sales and being the Western public's image of a JRPG. To answer this question, we must convert their influence in their respective areas to the other's. To do this, we must use what's known as the Fanfrick's Equation...

Proceeds to lecture you for an entire hour straight

 

[SKX31]

To be fair the moveset doesn’t even fit regular Samus well.

And TBF to Sakurai and co, Samus' moveset solidified into what it is before Zero Mission or Prime 1 had even come out. Additionally, Sakurai probably did not impliment the Shine Spark - in its original form - or any other super-fast movement options since that might conflict heavily with the then-rare projectile usage.

Again, Samus is one of those characters that could use a second look, but I'm of the opinion that the changes Ultimate brought helped her and I'm not as vocal about changing her as I would've been pre-Ultimate. Part of the reason why is because now her CQC is much more consistent and dangerous than in past Smash iterations - particularily her aerials, which are now much faster than before generally and some of her most effective attacks.

We out here posting Newgrounds animation view counts as a reason that a character could get in?

For your information good sir, it's actually YOUTUBE viewcounts

This is how Mario Party wins. Via the absolute LSD-addled tripfest known as Youtube Kids (seriously, I keep forgetting about it existing for some reason. It might be best not to think about Youtube Kids too much, though):

(Image taken from SwankyBox's video on the topic.)

 

[Idon]

"I wonder what's the highest amount of views for an SMT title..."

"... figures."

 

[7NATOR]

tbf if he hadn't included the "I've not seen a Video with Sephiroth that was this big" part then it would be sound logic, because that does mean that around 182 million people are familiar with them, that just doesn't mean they're neccesarily more well known then Sephiroth

You may be right about this

The point of my post wasn't to downplay Sephiroth, But it was more to show that Any of the Sonic characters should not be Undermined at all. Not just any Franchise can be associated with Videos that get 182 Million Views

It was somewhat similar to the same thing when I made the Accusation of the Agenda against Shadow. I see people note how Assist Promotions like Isaac, Shovel Knight, etc could be big additions for even E3, yet Shadow gets glossed over, despite being a Legendary character, for better or for worse.

This applies to the Main 4 for a Second Sonic character. All 4 have the merits that People look at when deducing who is the most likely character

Recognizability/Iconicness
Popularity (in Smash and in the Fanbase)
Relevance
Moveset Potential
Ease of Implementation (Eggman might be harder to Implement, but the other 3 aren't)
Ease of Access (Sega loves licensing out Sonic)

The only thing they might not have is any Strong rumors, but with that being in mind

-Joker wasn't leaked, and in fact, there were few "Insiders" that were talking about no Atlus content, which means Sega Ninjas are very successful at their job

-If Papagenos was to be believed and was being truthful, that Evidence he was talking about could have applied to Shadow Specifically at least


So It's less that "A 2nd Sonic character would be more hype than Sephiroth", and more that "there's no downside to Adding in another Sonic character". Of course with there being 2 slots left and many characters on the table, I do understand if people go a different direction with their predictions, but I'm providing some good reasoning in why Any of the 4, Iconic Sonic characters that people look at are good chances for FP2

 

[Shroob]

You may be right about this

The point of my post wasn't to downplay Sephiroth, But it was more to show that Any of the Sonic characters should not be Undermined at all. Not just any Franchise can be associated with Videos that get 182 Million Views

It was somewhat similar to the same thing when I made the Accusation of the Agenda against Shadow. I see people note how Assist Promotions like Isaac, Shovel Knight, etc could be big additions for even E3, yet Shadow gets glossed over, despite being a Legendary character, for better or for worse.

This applies to the Main 4 for a Second Sonic character. All 4 have the merits that People look at when deducing who is the most likely character

Recognizability/Iconicness
Popularity (in Smash and in the Fanbase)
Relevance
Moveset Potential
Ease of Implementation (Eggman might be harder to Implement, but the other 3 aren't)
Ease of Access (Sega loves licensing out Sonic)

The only thing they might not have is any Strong rumors, but with that being in mind

-Joker wasn't leaked, and in fact, there were few "Insiders" that were talking about no Atlus content, which means Sega Ninjas are very successful at their job

-If Papagenos was to be believed and was being truthful, that Evidence he was talking about could have applied to Shadow Specifically at least


So It's less that "A 2nd Sonic character would be more hype than Sephiroth", and more that "there's no downside to Adding in another Sonic character". Of course with there being 2 slots left and many characters on the table, I do understand if people go a different direction with their predictions, but I'm providing some good reasoning in why Any of the 4, Iconic Sonic characters that people look at are good chances for FP2

There's no downside to adding any character from any franchise.

I'm not sure your point.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Tinfoil hat theory.
Ridley was the first villain newcomer revealed in the base roster. The second-next unique newcomer (and after Simon) was K. Rool, another villain.

Sephiroth is the first villain of this pass. Using the Power of Patterns™, Dr. Eggman will be the next unique character after Pyra and CP10.

Now let’s fiercely reach for the straws!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Eggman I think would be June/E3 Month worthy reveal for sure if he were next.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Counter theory: The beginning Of The End Theory.

Ryu was the first DLC newcomer in the series, therefore Chun-Li will be the final DLC character for Ultimate and in a way the current Smash timeline if 6 is a soft reboot as a book ends.

 

[PeridotGX]

Counter theory: The beginning Of The End Theory.

Ryu was the first DLC newcomer in the series, therefore Chun-Li will be the final DLC character for Ultimate and in a way the current Smash timeline if 6 is a soft reboot as a book ends.

actually, the first dlc character was mewtwo.

we're getting mew. he's under the truck.

 

[Idon]

actually, the first dlc character was mewtwo.

we're getting mew. he's under the truck.

Finally... Mewthree.

 

[chocolatejr9]

actually, the first dlc character was mewtwo.

we're getting mew. he's under the truck.

Which truck? There's, like, a bunch of them.

 

[Otoad64]

Which truck? There's, like, a bunch of them.

the truck

 

[PeridotGX]

Which truck? There's, like, a bunch of them.

it's a truck. get looking, we shall not leave a single truck un-turned. starting with this one.

EDIT: he's not under here. get to the next

 

[Technomage]

actually, the first dlc character was mewtwo.

we're getting mew. he's under the truck.

New twist, Mew's reveal is a double reveal; it reveals CP11:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/6/63/Profile-_Mater.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/932?cb=20190506065539

 

[Otoad64]

New twist, Mew's reveal is a double reveal; it reveals CP11:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/6/63/Profile-_Mater.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/932?cb=20190506065539

Broken Image is the final character!?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Counter theory: The beginning Of The End Theory.

Ryu was the first DLC newcomer in the series, therefore Chun-Li will be the final DLC character for Ultimate and in a way the current Smash timeline if 6 is a soft reboot as a book ends.

Chun Li will be the last character to complete the third party newcomer mirror theory .

Essentially the third party newcomers to Smash will more or less be a mirror of the order of companies beginning with Ken.

Capcom (Ken)
Sega (Joker)
Square Enix (Hero)
Microsoft (Banjo)
SNK (Terry)
Microsoft (Steve)
Square Enix (Sephrioth)
Sega (?)
Capcom (?)

Thus the next two characters will be from those companies respectively in order to finish off the mirror.

Now you may be tempted to respond with "Hey, don't Simon and Richter screw up this concept? Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Joker is an Atlus character and Banjo a Rare one rather than Sega and Microsoft? Isn't it more likely, LiveStudioAudience, that you've just noticed an incidental pattern and cherry picked examples to fit some unproven hypothesis?"

And I say to to all that... hey look over there!

runs off

 

[TheLamerGamer]

"I wonder what's the highest amount of views for an SMT title..."
View attachment 308157
"... figures."

I'm honestly just impressed SMT actually comes before persona. Although, I'm assuming there'll be videos with higher view counts without SMT in their title.

Spoiler: The song in the picture - it's really good

 

[Technomage]

Broken Image is the final character!?

LOL Not my intention, but that's even better!

Edit: I guess Sakurai found Mater to be too difficult and resource-expensive to implement.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Our next character is a random truck said to be from Pokémon, but it looks realistic for some reason. Its final smash is a hyper-realistic Mew flying out from under it, knocking out all of your opponents AND you afterwards, and then finally melting your Switch.

 

[Shroob]

Our next character is a random truck said to be from Pokémon, but it looks realistic for some reason. Its final smash is a hyper-realistic Mew flying out from under it, knocking out all of your opponents AND you afterwards, and then finally melting your Switch.

This is the weirdest creepypasta ever.

 

[Arcanir]

"I wonder what's the highest amount of views for an SMT title..."
View attachment 308157
"... figures."

Walter left that much of an impression on fans, didn't he?

 

[7NATOR]

There's no downside to adding any character from any franchise.

I'm not sure your point.

Well I will say that the characters that are made need to make Profit compared to how much work goes into the inclusion of every fighter

Granted, I don't think there are too many Fighters discussed that I think wouldn't make Profit anyway. but if a Character was usper niche, while also being very complicated to Implement, that might be a downside to Implementing them since The reward for the efforts doesn't pay back the amount of work that was needed

What I mean Downside, I mean Obstacles in terms of why Nintendo wouldn't choose a Certain character, or can't Implement a character

As an example, With Sora, there's the obstacle of Disney making things complicated. Sure a represented of Disney said they were down for Sora in Smash, but when it comes of the actual negotiations, Some details of what Disney may want might conflict with what Nintendo wants, and that also doesn't go into the pricing of things and stuff like that. We don't have confirmed info, but only Rumors from some inside people that suggests negotiations didn't go as planned when it came to Kingdom Hearts in Smash

This doesn't mean that Sora has no chance at Smash ever, or anything like that. what it does mean is that there are some obstacles in terms of whether Sora would be prioritized to be one of the next Fighters

There's characters that have Regional based popularity, where they popular in one region, not so much in another. People don't pay attention to Mortal Kombat in Smash, despite how huge the Franchise is, because of the Whole Japan thing. People are wary of Reimu because of her Relative lack of popularity in the West

There's all these factors that people take into Account when speculating characters, because these are probably factors Nintendo takes into account when deciding characters

Another Sonic character Doesn't really have any Obstacles in why they can't be in. the biggest one I could think of is that it's not as Popular in Japan as it is everywhere else. even then it has had Good amount of popularity in the past and still does have a great fanbase there. I've also Seen Shadow being on some Japanese based polls in the past as well

Characters like Tails, Shadow, & Knuckles are characters I've seen people want for years and years, even decades. They are Very well known even to Casual Players, They are relevant characters, and Sega loves licensing out the Sonic Brand, Plus Nintendo has already worked with Sega to implement in Sonic for 3 games, along with Having Bayonetta and Joker along for the ride.

That's what I mean when there's no downside, because there's nothing that's in the way of us getting another Sonic character, besides there being other potential options, and that's where it starts being speculative and based on your own interpretation of what Nintendo might choose

This is part of the Reason that Crash is so prevalent on many people's Prediction list, because from the surface there is no Downside to adding him to Smash. this is also why you don't see as many predictions on characters like Reimu, Falcom Characters, or stuff like that, because people do find they have their drawbacks in terms of consideration

We see with Sephiroth that they are not afraid to continue adding more Content from a Popular Game or Franchise (FF7), so I ask why they couldn't do the same with Sonic. If there's no drawback to adding in Another Sonic character, and you find that ALOT of people want another Sonic character, and have for a long while, what's the hold up at that point.

 

[Shroob]

Well I will say that the characters that are made need to make Profit compared to how much work goes into the inclusion of every fighter

Granted, I don't think there are too many Fighters discussed that I think wouldn't make Profit anyway. but if a Character was usper niche, while also being very complicated to Implement, that might be a downside to Implementing them since The reward for the efforts doesn't pay back the amount of work that was needed

What I mean Downside, I mean Obstacles in terms of why Nintendo wouldn't choose a Certain character, or can't Implement a character

As an example, With Sora, there's the obstacle of Disney making things complicated. Sure a represented of Disney said they were down for Sora in Smash, but when it comes of the actual negotiations, Some details of what Disney may want might conflict with what Nintendo wants, and that also doesn't go into the pricing of things and stuff like that. We don't have confirmed info, but only Rumors from some inside people that suggests negotiations didn't go as planned when it came to Kingdom Hearts in Smash

This doesn't mean that Sora has no chance at Smash ever, or anything like that. what it does mean is that there are some obstacles in terms of whether Sora would be prioritized to be one of the next Fighters

There's characters that have Regional based popularity, where they popular in one region, not so much in another. People don't pay attention to Mortal Kombat in Smash, despite how huge the Franchise is, because of the Whole Japan thing. People are wary of Reimu because of her Relative lack of popularity in the West

There's all these factors that people take into Account when speculating characters, because these are probably factors Nintendo takes into account when deciding characters

Another Sonic character Doesn't really have any Obstacles in why they can't be in. the biggest one I could think of is that it's not as Popular in Japan as it is everywhere else. even then it has had Good amount of popularity in the past and still does have a great fanbase there. I've also Seen Shadow being on some Japanese based polls in the past as well

Characters like Tails, Shadow, & Knuckles are characters I've seen people want for years and years, even decades. They are Very well known even to Casual Players, They are relevant characters, and Sega loves licensing out the Sonic Brand, Plus Nintendo has already worked with Sega to implement in Sonic for 3 games, along with Having Bayonetta and Joker along for the ride.

That's what I mean when there's no downside, because there's nothing that's in the way of us getting another Sonic character, besides there being other potential options, and that's where it starts being speculative and based on your own interpretation of what Nintendo might choose

This is part of the Reason that Crash is so prevalent on many people's Prediction list, because from the surface there is no Downside to adding him to Smash. this is also why you don't see as many predictions on characters like Reimu, Falcom Characters, or stuff like that, because people do find they have their drawbacks in terms of consideration

We see with Sephiroth that they are not afraid to continue adding more Content from a Popular Game or Franchise (FF7), so I ask why they couldn't do the same with Sonic. If there's no drawback to adding in Another Sonic character, and you find that ALOT of people want another Sonic character, and have for a long while, what's the hold up at that point.

No one's saying that they can't.

You could seriously condense what you write into a single paragraph and more people would probably read what you say tbh, because a lot of times it feels like rambling.


No one is saying that a 2nd Sonic character is impossible, I haven't seen anyone here say it is, but a lack of discussion on said topic isn't the same as people condemning it, it's just a lack of interest/thought.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I’d like another Sonic character, but I’m not sure one will happen.

Personally I’d like for Tails to be next, but Eggman or Shadow would be cool too.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Its an odd comparison, but Sonic characters feel a bit like Gen 8 Pokemon in that neither their inclusion or lack of inclusion would be a real surprise. If Eggman shows up as Fighter 10/11 it would make sense, and if he doesn't it would also be understandable.

 

[Technomage]

Are there any new Sonic games coming up in the future? If so, then depending on the details, it might influence what the next Sonic char might be.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Are there any new Sonic games coming up in the future? If so, then depending on the details, it might influence what the next Sonic char might be.

A lot of game related elements to Sonic are unknown right now. With COVID delaying a lot of projects (to the point where Sega hasn't even announced events or presentations related to Sonic in a long time) everything's up in the air. There's an assumption that they will announce something close to the series 30th anniversary (even if such games would probably come out in 2022) but what form they'll take any how many? Who knows.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

if there's no drawback to adding in Another Sonic character

I don't think Nintendo even considers "drawbacks" to adding characters, because I can't even really think of drawbacks to any characters.

Instead, they think about the benefits - these can apply to popular games, which can get people to buy smash and its dlc, and less popular games, which will get people to buy the games, which makes Nintendo and the game's publisher/developer money.

 

[Otoad64]

A lot of game related elements to Sonic are unknown right now. With COVID delaying a lot of projects (to the point where Sega hasn't even announced events or presentations related to Sonic in a long time) everything's up in the air. There's an assumption that they will announce something close to the series 30th anniversary (even if such games would probably come out in 2022) but what form they'll take any how many? Who knows.

they haven't even announced when they're gonna make an announcement!

 

[BlondeLombax]

I don't think Nintendo even considers "drawbacks" to adding characters, because I can't even really think of drawbacks to any characters.

Instead, they think about the benefits - these can apply to popular games, which can get people to buy smash and its dlc, and less popular games, which will get people to buy the games, which makes Nintendo and the game's publisher/developer money.

I personally enjoy one factor; how adding characters with little to no history on Nintendo systems can serve as a sort of olive branch to fans on the consoles they are on. Select others would consider it selling out to those consoles, but I have one question; how?

 

[7NATOR]

Are there any new Sonic games coming up in the future? If so, then depending on the details, it might influence what the next Sonic char might be.

Besides all the other responses given about the delays and such like that, There was a Sonic card game announced

No one's saying that they can't.

You could seriously condense what you write into a single paragraph and more people would probably read what you say tbh, because a lot of times it feels like rambling.


No one is saying that a 2nd Sonic character is impossible, I haven't seen anyone here say it is, but a lack of discussion on said topic isn't the same as people condemning it, it's just a lack of interest/thought.

You're right

I think Regarding Eggman and Tails, there's not really an issue regarding them, and the fact that Eggman has become some sort of Frontrunner for FP2 does show that people do put respect on Sonic's name, and that people do respect Eggman and Tails Merits

To be Honest, I think Most of this was less about Sonic character in general, and more specifically about Shadow, because as Someone that's been predicting Shadow as his own character both during base game and during FP2, I've at times been treating Smash Speculation like Warfare because I've been going against the grain in terms of the common Consensus regarding Shadow

Because of that, I've felt that there's been an agenda in Undermining Shadow and his merits, from Sonic fans and Smash fans. I've felt that even among people that think Assist Promotions are possible, that Shadow gets no respect from alot of people. So I have to go on the offensive and present the evidence and arguments that puts respect on his name, and sometimes I do bring the other 3 Sonic characters into it, when I don't think the issues actually affect Eggman or Tails in Particular

Though I understand why people feel the way they do on this. I also feel bad for Knuckles

 

[StrangeKitten]

While it's true that a new Sonic character isn't discussed a ton here, there is me, poppin' in from time to time to shill for Eggman. I don't talk about Tails, Knuckles, or Shadow much, but I'd be delighted to see them, too.

 

[Pillow]

Besides all the other responses given about the delays and such like that, There was a Sonic card game announced



You're right

I think Regarding Eggman and Tails, there's not really an issue regarding them, and the fact that Eggman has become some sort of Frontrunner for FP2 does show that people do put respect on Sonic's name, and that people do respect Eggman and Tails Merits

To be Honest, I think Most of this was less about Sonic character in general, and more specifically about Shadow, because as Someone that's been predicting Shadow as his own character both during base game and during FP2, I've at times been treating Smash Speculation like Warfare because I've been going against the grain in terms of the common Consensus regarding Shadow

Because of that, I've felt that there's been an agenda in Undermining Shadow and his merits, from Sonic fans and Smash fans. I've felt that even among people that think Assist Promotions are possible, that Shadow gets no respect from alot of people. So I have to go on the offensive and present the evidence and arguments that puts respect on his name, and sometimes I do bring the other 3 Sonic characters into it, when I don't think the issues actually affect Eggman or Tails in Particular

Though I understand why people feel the way they do on this. I also feel bad for Knuckles

There is no agenda against Shadow. Most people just don’t think he’s very likely, and for good reason.

 

[Technomage]

With all these people here saying Eggman, Tails, Shadow, and Knuckles are likely candidates, I gotta bring up the Avatar from Sonic Forces. Since that game was released in 2017 (like ARMS and Xenoblade 2 were), what are the chances of the Avatar being added as a "loose ends" kind of DLC (in a similar vain to Min Min and Pythra)?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Really Shadow is unfortunately distinct in getting skepticism from at least four different camps; speculators that don't believe another Sonic character will be picked, Sonic fans that believe/prefer another one from the series would get in, people that think he leans too close into being an echo/clone of Sonic to be distinct in a fighter's pass, and those that simply believe Assist Trophies will not get promoted within this Smash game.

Ironically for someone called the Ultimate Life Form, he's had really bad luck in Ultimate.

 

[Pillow]

With all these people here saying Eggman, Tails, Shadow, and Knuckles are likely candidates, I gotta bring up the Avatar from Sonic Forces. Since that game was released in 2017 (like ARMS and Xenoblade 2 were), what are the chances of the Avatar being added as a "loose ends" kind of DLC (in a similar vain to Min Min and Pythra)?

Haha Sonic Forces

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

"I wonder what's the highest amount of views for an SMT title..."
View attachment 308157
"... figures."

Me when P4s intro plays: