Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[mariofan48]

That’s a “themed” event though? If it brought new spirits then yeah I’d consider that a deconfirm

Oh yeah if it brought new spirits obviously. I'm just referring to spirits that were already in the game being part of a themed spirit event

 

[Ben Holt]

That’s a “themed” event though? If it brought new spirits then yeah I’d consider that a deconfirm

Agreed. Deconfirmations aren't a hard rule. Just a trend. Trophies didn't deconfirm in Smash Wii U, but Inkling was a DLC trophy and Mii Costume, and they were the most notable character to not make it into Smash Wii U.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Just for context for those who don't know, there was a theory that a character who's a spirit appears in a spirit event then they're disconfirmed which was bull and is confirmed to be bull after Pythra.

 

[Pillow]

Just for context for those who don't know, there was a theory that a character who's a spirit appears in a spirit event then they're disconfirmed which was bull and is confirmed to be bull after Pythra.

Is this true? I thought Pythra spirits were from the base game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Is this true? I thought Pythra spirits were from the base game.

They are. It’s just that people thought that if a base game spirit appeared in a themed event that they couldn’t be playable

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakurai POTD.

pic.twitter.com/cG9Vh0ZLAG

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) March 17, 2021

 

[chocolatejr9]

Sakurai POTD.

pic.twitter.com/cG9Vh0ZLAG

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) March 17, 2021

And that's why you should always be careful with a sword...

 

[DarthEnderX]

Also big words on Crash considering that you seem to not get how marketing works.

I know EXACTLY how marketing works. It works by feeding someone bull**** to trick them into buying your product.

In this case, convincing a bunch of gullible kids that some some absolutely GARBAGE platformers should somehow be held up next to Mario 64.

Hmmm, I think Keyblades are more like axes.

Depends on the keyblade.



That one is clearly a sword.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I know EXACTLY how marketing works. It works by feeding someone bull**** to trick them into buying your product.

In this case, convincing a bunch of gullible kids that some some absolutely GARBAGE platformers should somehow be held up next to Mario 64.

Depends on the keyblade.

View attachment 307584

That one is clearly a sword.

Yeesh, I get that the hallway levels thing can turn people off, but do you REALLY have to insult an entire generation like that?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I know EXACTLY how marketing works. It works by feeding someone bull**** to trick them into buying your product.

In this case, convincing a bunch of gullible kids that some some absolutely GARBAGE platformers should somehow be held up next to Mario 64.

The fact that the marketing campaign works still and people consider Crash an icon shows how well it worked. It also helps that the games are quite good, but not everyone can appreciate a well made trilogy and the best kart racer of all time.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I know EXACTLY how marketing works. It works by feeding someone bull**** to trick them into buying your product.

In this case, convincing a bunch of gullible kids that some some absolutely GARBAGE platformers should somehow be held up next to Mario 64.

Sounds pretty bias ngl, Sonic do this too with their original game and yet you don't scream "GARBAGE GAME FOR KIDS, BAD I TELL YOU BAD!" Sonic basically convinces gullible kids that he is cooler and hipper than Mario and people buy that claim and bought his game, that's no different. Then again, no surprise coming from a guy like you who brag about disliking things.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I know EXACTLY how marketing works. It works by feeding someone bull**** to trick them into buying your product.

In this case, convincing a bunch of gullible kids that some some absolutely GARBAGE platformers should somehow be held up next to Mario 64.

A bit mean mate.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Project M EX Remix, a decently popular Brawl Mod, recently got an update, and it got me thinking: how would speculators feel about the roster of the game?

Hmm, skipping the ones that are probably echoes:
Toad - Good
Waluigi -Fine
Geno - Good
Toon Zelda -Meh
Black Shadow - Good
Zero - Great
Knuckle Joe - Meh
Bandana Dee - Fine
FE characters I don't recognize - Barf
Isaac - Fine
Separate Trainer Pokemon - Good
Blaziken - Meh
Gir before Sans - Who dis?
Sans - Fine
Metal Face - Meh
Bomberman - Good
Sonic's Friends - Meh
Personaguy - Meh
Robot before Ryu - Who dis?
Sub-Zero - Fine
Nu-13 - Wierd choice of BlazBlue character...
Squall - Meh
Sandbag - Meh

Overall: Not great.

If I'm being honest, what I dislike is the sheer amount of clones and semiclones this game apparently has. It's one thing when the Echo concept was underutilized, but here, they're like a third of the roster.

I mean, they ARE fandevs. They ain't got alotta resources.

Is Nu-13 unpopular in the fanbase?

No. But it'd be like adding Bison before adding Ryu, Ken or Chun Li.

 

[Knight Dude]

i'm seeing a lot of side characters and sub-weapons. is this so much to ask for?

Yeah, I think Ragna's the closest you're gonna get.

Reads post from Earthworm Jim thread creator

Holy ****, and I thought I wasn't crazy about Steve joining Smash lol.

Same. I still don't care for him honestly. But I don't think I'd hate any character so much they'd make me quit a series.

Project M EX Remix, a decently popular Brawl Mod, recently got an update, and it got me thinking: how would speculators feel about the roster of the game?

It's roster has some... odd choices.

Needs Mega Man and MMX, Throw in Greninja too. Throw out the BlazBlue chick for Sol Badguy. Add Chun-Li for good measure.

But yeah the lack of Mega Man himself getting back ported like other Smash 4 characters is really odd (read: Dumb) choice. Especially when you've got 5 Sonic characters.

3/10 Doesn't have my main. Sub-Zero and VectorMan are dope tho.

We never see Johnny Blaze's face in Agents of SHIELD, so far all we know, he COULD be Nicolas Cage! (all we know is that a motorcyclist heavily implied to be Johnny Blaze gave the Spirit of Vengeance to Robbie Reyes)

To get this back on topic, who are some newcomers that would fulfill dream match-ups if they were among the last two characters to get into FP2? (ex. Mario vs. Sonic vs. Crash, Dante vs. Bayonetta, Tails vs. Luigi, Bowser vs. Eggman)

There's a TON of potential match ups that would be fun.

Scorpion/Sub-Zero vs Ryu.
Hayabusa vs other NES icons.
Mega Man vs MMX
MMX vs Samus
MMX vs Fox
Chun-Li vs Samus
Lara vs Samus
Wily vs Eggman
Dante vs Bayo, like you said.
Sigma vs Ganon would be dank.
Geese vs Ganon, also dank.
Jin vs Ryu vs Terry
Zero vs Link or Shulk

And of course, Akuma beating the dog**** out of everyone.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

And that's why you should always be careful with a sword...

I’ll remember that next time I take my sword onto my chandelier.

 

[Perkilator]

I know EXACTLY how marketing works. It works by feeding someone bull**** to trick them into buying your product.

In this case, convincing a bunch of gullible kids that some some absolutely GARBAGE platformers should somehow be held up next to Mario 64.

First off, that's needlessly mean.

Seocndly, 64 was only a single game, even with its 11 million units sold. Crash, in his heyday, had the first game (6 million units), Cortex Strikes Back (roughly 5 million units), Warped (6 million again), and CTR (roughly 2 million units), all together selling nearly 20 million units across those 4 games. And then along came the N. Sane Trilogy, selling a whopping 10 million units as of February 2019.

So TL;DR, "feeding someone bull**** to trick them into buying your product" and "convincing a bunch of gullible kids that some some absolutely GARBAGE platformers should somehow be held up next to Mario 64" worked out for Crash in the end, because they wouldn't have sold so many copies if people other than "gullible kids" thought these games were bad.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sounds pretty bias ngl, Sonic do this too with their original game and yet you don't scream "GARBAGE GAME FOR KIDS, BAD I TELL YOU BAD!"

Because Sonic made several good games before it started making bad games, and occasionally still makes a good game.

Crash games started out bad. Made a decent kart spinoff, then disappeared for 20 years before finally making a halfway good platformer.

The fact that the marketing campaign works still and people consider Crash an icon shows how well it worked.

I'm not really sure how "Their marketing campaign worked!" is supposed to be a good reason to put a character in Smash...

 

[Commander_Alph]

Crash games started out bad

according to your opinion, don't disguise them as hard fact, c'mon!

 

[Perkilator]

then disappeared for 20 years

That's blatantly wrong, because Crash still got games for another decade after CTR before dipping in 2008.

Those games weren't the same level of quality as Naughty Dog's games, but still.

 

[Will]

Crash games started out bad. Made a decent kart spinoff, then disappeared for 20 years before finally making a halfway good platformer.

Sounds like Ninja Gaiden but replace kart spinoff with fighting game

 

[CardStealer1]

They're not, if this was the cause of the glitches then the devs would know what was going to bug out. They'd canvas the base characters before each patch to make sure they don't give anything away. So no, all you really need to do is think about it to know that there is no correlation between glitches and the next DLC character.
I'm curious, has anyone who actually believes this dumb theory ever tried programming before. Often bugs are random, you can't figure out how you've caused something to go wrong, so sometimes you have to brute force it in order to fix it. These glitches are more likely the fault of the balancing team rather that the new character team.

As someone who has been hired as a game developer and someone who is two months away from getting their BS in Computer Science. This is just nonsense. Bugs are not random. I am not going to compile some code and get errors when nothing has been changed. Characters’ moves and characteristics are almost certainly used to hack together beta versions of new characters, and sometimes some of those quick hacks may cause their sources or some other dependents to be bugged. The dev team certainly “canvases the base characters” as you put it, but that does not prevent bugs from slipping through the cracks. The testing phase is one of the most time consuming and costly parts of development, so you cannot expect the dev team to find every bug they find.

Not every error is necessarily connected to a DLC character, but some of them definitely are. The Mii sword fighter and the Duck Hunt were almost certainly for Hero and Banjo respectively. The Dark Pit and Lucas glitches could be completely unrelated to any upcoming characters, but there is a decent chance that they are. So no, you cannot say that the theory is stupid when there is legitimate precedence for such things happening. Expecting a character because of a glitch is stupid, but speculating possible characters because of that glitch, isn’t.

edit: changed BA to BS, thanks monile

 

[Shroob]

Because Sonic made several good games before it started making bad games, and occasionally still makes a good game.

Crash games started out bad. Made a decent kart spinoff, then disappeared for 20 years before finally making a halfway good platformer.

I'm not really sure how "Their marketing campaign worked!" is supposed to be a good reason to put a character in Smash...

CoughSONICcough



....what? Don't give me that look. I think Sonic games suck.


.....I've just alerted the horde, haven't I?

 

[SpecterFlower]

They are. It’s just that people thought that if a base game spirit appeared in a themed event that they couldn’t be playable

Well that's just dumb.

anyway i wanted to get TWEWYFR but it turn out my touchscreen doesn't work, (im thinking back to a certain relative who borrowed it a bit ago) so im honestly jut venting here cause it looks really good and i can't play it.

but i guess if Neku get's i smash i can kind of play it so now he's my most wanted.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Alright let’s cool it, if someone doesn’t like a game it’s their opinion on that matter. No reason to get into a flame war over it.

Sounds like Ninja Gaiden but replace kart spinoff with fighting game

Second of all, how dare you.

 

[Shroob]

Alright let’s cool it, if someone doesn’t like a game it’s their opinion on that matter. No reason to get into a flame war over it.

Second of all, how dare you.

NSG, "Alright guys let's cool it."

Also NSG, loads gun

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Alright let’s cool it, if someone doesn’t like a game it’s their opinion on that matter. No reason to get into a flame war over it.

Second of all, how dare you.

Aww, right when I was about to post .

Anywho, lets change the subject towards Deluxe Mii Costumes. Do y'all think we are gonna get any more? I personally think at least one more is on the table. If I had to bet, Shovel Knight as a Mii Swordfighter.

 

[Ben Holt]

That's blatantly wrong, because Crash still got games for another decade after CTR before dipping in 2008.

Those games weren't the same level of quality as Naughty Dog's games, but still.

This is what I say! Crash never left. He and Spyro were just put into lesser quality games that we forgot about.

Aww, right when I was about to post .



Anywho, lets change the subject towards Deluxe Mii Costumes. Do y'all think we are gonna get any more? I personally think at least one more is on the table. If I had to bet, Shovel Knight as a Mii Swordfighter.

Shovel Knight for sure. Dr. Cortex Mii Gunner. Viewtiful Joe Brawlers. Rayman Brawler (if he doesn't become outright playable). Klonoa Brawler. Hollow Knight Swordfighter. Arthur... should have been Deluxe. Geno should have been Deluxe. Knuckles should have been Deluxe. Tails should have been Deluxe. Maybe we can get Shadow as a Deluxe Brawler.

 

[osby]

CoughSONICcough



....what? Don't give me that look. I think Sonic games suck.


.....I've just alerted the horde, haven't I?

Nah, nobody hates Sonic games more than Sonic fans. You need try harder to get a rise out of us. Watch this:

I think there were good Sonic games between SA2 and Mania.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Aww, right when I was about to post .

Anywho, lets change the subject towards Deluxe Mii Costumes. Do y'all think we are gonna get any more? I personally think at least one more is on the table. If I had to bet, Shovel Knight as a Mii Swordfighter.

I feel like Hollow Knight could also be a potential option. We haven't had one for a bit either. I think the last one was Bomberman, though I think that came with Min Min?

It's likely these take a lot more time and effort than a simple costume, so they probably have done few of them. They're almost exactly full playable characters in terms of model design/quality.

 

[ZelDan]

I haven't played the original PS1 Crash 2 in probably 2 decades at this point and haven't ever touched the PS1 version of crash 1 or 3, but if they aren't that far off from how the games are on the NSane trilogy then honestly I'd probably put the original crash trilogy over Mario 64, and I say this as someone who cares about Mario WAAAAY more than Crash Bandicoot. I never grew up on Mario 64, and trying to play the game on Wii U and Mario 3D collection was incredibly rough and frustrating. maybe a hot take or unpopular opinion, but 3D Mario for me didn't get good until Super Mario Galaxy 1.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Nah, nobody hates Sonic games more than Sonic fans. You need try harder to get a raise out of us. Watch this:

I think there were good Sonic games between SA2 and Mania.

You think that is enough to set off Sonic fans? Watch this.

Sonic Advance 1-3 are better than Sonic Colors.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Deconfirmations aren't a hard rule. Just a trend.

CoughSONICcough

....what? Don't give me that look. I think Sonic games suck.

The Genesis Sonic games weren't as good as SMB games. But thet were still pretty good. I don't think they got bad till the 3D era.

Watch this:

I think there were good Sonic games between SA2 and Mania.

I legit love Generations. It's "2D Sonic + Just the good parts of 3D Sonic".

 

[cashregister9]

Nah, nobody hates Sonic games more than Sonic fans. You need try harder to get a raise out of us. Watch this:

I think there were good Sonic games between SA2 and Mania.

Nah You're just saying facts here.

The real sonic fan will say each and every game is a hidden gem except for stupid ****ing Sonic Forces.

For the record I thought Forces was good.

 

[Ben Holt]

Nah, nobody hates Sonic games more than Sonic fans. You need try harder to get a raise out of us. Watch this:

I think there were good Sonic games between SA2 and Mania.

Same. Only 06 really sucked.
Forces was decent but short. Sega knew that they had a mediocre game at $40 instead of $60 at launch, but it's far from bad.

Though here's the fun part. Every 10 years, Sonic has gotten excellent anniversary games whereas the 5 years were mediocre to bad in 06's case.
10th: Adventure 2
15th: 06
20th: Generations
25th: Forces
If the pattern continues, this year will bring us a great Sonic game.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Nah, nobody hates Sonic games more than Sonic fans. You need try harder to get a raise out of us. Watch this:

I think there were good Sonic games between SA2 and Mania.

This post implies the majority of people didn’t like Colors or Generations and that is heresy.

 

[SharkLord]

If someone's being difficult, rude, and pushing opinion as fact, just break out the "Ignore" button. It's there for a reason.

Anyways, changing gears:

Aww, right when I was about to post .

Anywho, lets change the subject towards Deluxe Mii Costumes. Do y'all think we are gonna get any more? I personally think at least one more is on the table. If I had to bet, Shovel Knight as a Mii Swordfighter.

Depends on how broad or strict your definition is. If we're going with full-body Miis that look almost identical to the characters, with some occasional liberties, I'd say they're a safe bet. Shovel Knight would work pretty well, and so would the Knight. We haven't had one since Steve, yes, but the releases with them are irregular; We had Sans with Banjo, nothing for Terry, then Cuphead, Vault Boy, and Bomberman back-to-back. Now we've taken a two-pass gap with no PreMiiums. Who knows if or when we'll get another one.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Nah You're just saying facts here.

The real sonic fan will say each and every game is a hidden gem except for stupid ****ing Sonic Forces.

For the record I thought Forces was good.

I don't think any Sonic fan would say Sonic the Hedgehog GBA edition is a hidden gem lol.

 

[cashregister9]

I don't think any Sonic fan would say Sonic the Hedgehog GBA edition is a hidden gem lol.

For that game they either say some variation of "I Grew Up With It" or "So Bad It's Good"

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nah, nobody hates Sonic games more than Sonic fans. You need try harder to get a rise out of us. Watch this:

I think there were good Sonic games between SA2 and Mania.

You think that is enough to set off Sonic fans? Watch this.

Sonic Advance 1-3 are better than Sonic Colors.

Weird. I agree with both of these. But to be fair, I didn't really enjoy Colors or Unleashed much at all, so. Just didn't do it for me. A problem with Sonic is he can become too fast and uncontrollable, which might be fine to some degree... if the hazards and stages aren't that bad. But they got really poor in design, so you could get a lot of easy and awful deaths. That said, I never found the Boost system remotely fun.

...Do you mean Adventure 2 or Advance 2, Osby? I presume Adventure 2, but.

 

[Ben Holt]

I don't think any Sonic fan would say Sonic the Hedgehog GBA edition is a hidden gem lol.

Hey. That slowdown makes platforming more precise, and the screen crunch makes bosses easier.
. . . I actually owned Sonic GBA and beat it as a kid. I was on vacation and had it in my DS.