Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[AnothenBlue]

Please tell me they did not invent yet another alternate name for Fate King Arthur. What was so wrong with Artoria dammit.

No, that's just what I write when I don't write Artoria. I'm not consistent with it at all.
Screw Altria either way. Why change it after all these years to something dumb?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I would lean heavily towards a June reveal. While things have been fast a 3 month gap between a reveal is not out of the question. While May makes sense I doubt we will get anything in April. That is way too soon.

There was about two months between Steve and Sephiroth’s reveals and Pythra were revealed in February so I don’t think a late April reveal is too much of a stretch.

 

[DarthEnderX]

You really gonna do Vivi like that? How rude!

Does Vivi got that swag scarf? No? Didn't think so.

 

[mariofan48]

Aww, right when I was about to post .

Anywho, lets change the subject towards Deluxe Mii Costumes. Do y'all think we are gonna get any more? I personally think at least one more is on the table. If I had to bet, Shovel Knight as a Mii Swordfighter.

Hat Kid

 

[SpecterFlower]

That's a ****ing ominous line.


I think an actual FF character would still be better. It's not like FF lacks options to pick from. I'd also take one of the classic FF classes like Black Mage or Dragoon over a Moogle. Nothing against the guys, I just don't think they'd be as interesting as a fighter.

But the question is which one to rep, Final Fantasy has a ton of characters and goig forward it'll probably be the 3rd party with the most reps, just who to add though? I see Gilgamesh, Terra, Kefka, Vivi, Zidane, Squall, Tidus, (Auron would be cool too), Yuna, and Noctis as the only viable character right now however using a basic class from the old games is possible too.

if you were to add three Final Fantasy character to smash who would you add?

I say three because i couldn't decide which to use, anyway im putting Down Gilgamesh, Terra and Fat Chocobo!!!!! but actually my real last one would probably be Tidus or someone from 10 even though I much prefer 9.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

One month since the reveal of the Aegis duo.

What are still everyone's overall thoughts?

 

[ShrimpScampi]

One month since the reveal of the Aegis duo.

What are still everyone's overall thoughts?

They're still pretty fun. The main draw for me is definitely the switching -- on their own they play fine, but together they make a fun duo. It's like being able to switch between Meta Knight and Ike on the fly, which is a neat concept. Long-term, I admittedly find myself more excited about the Byleth buffs though lol. The couple frames they shaved off of up-B's startup and the increased knockback they added to down smash, down air, and the up-B spike make them so much more fun to use, especially with follow-up attacks after up-B.

I'm very happy with the Xenoblade 2 music they added, even if the Cloud Sea stage can be a little awkward. It's much better than Gaur Plain in terms of layout, but I play it more with hazards off or on battlefield/omega mode.

As for my thoughts on how Pyra/Mythra affect future speculation... man I have no idea. I don't think a Capcom rep other than MH is entirely out of the running, since Sakurai made a point about how the costumes' timing was for promotional reasons, but at the same time there are only two slots left (right now I'm not expecting us to get an FP3), so Phoenix or Dante or whoever could easily just end up not having been picked.

I don't think we'll get another swordfighter for CP10 -- there's no hard evidence for that, I just have a feeling three back-to-back would be a bit much after Sephiroth and Pyra/Mythra. Maybe CP11 though.

Overall, Pyra/Mythra's a solid challenger pack for me. Fun fighter, okay stage, and phenomenal music selection. Speculation-wise I'm just kind of along for the ride now and interested in seeing how they finish out the pass.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Aww, right when I was about to post .

Anywho, lets change the subject towards Deluxe Mii Costumes. Do y'all think we are gonna get any more? I personally think at least one more is on the table. If I had to bet, Shovel Knight as a Mii Swordfighter.

Hollow Knight perhaps.

 

[Inue Houji]

One month since the reveal of the Aegis duo.

What are still everyone's overall thoughts?

It's been a month already? Where did the time go?


I still think Pyra is one of the most stupid-looking designs ever created.

The swapping mechanic is underwhelming, would much rather have had the hypothetical Rex+blade duo.

Why the **** does Mythra have witch time built into her airdodge, when she already has insane frame data and speed.

Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X would have been better.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Does Vivi got that swag scarf? No? Didn't think so.

Ok but consider the following. Vivi is a smol babby who is also the absolute goodest of boys

 

[Perkilator]

I’m starting to feel as if a line is being teetered over dangerously, watch what you say yall.

Back to Smash, how do you feel about Assists? I personally think they’re pretty deadzo. If Nintendo or Sakurai really felt it then maybe one could get promoted, but I have little faith in that.

Yeah, I still stand by my belief that they're not gonna promote an Assist Trophy in the same game.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think Chrom kinda stumbled over the line of non-playable characters interacting with playable ones. I can see it going either way but I doubt there’s a hard rule that says it can’t come to pass. Just a matter of whether things have changed in their chances since they got ATd and if so, whether that’s enough to take one of the last two passes.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I’m starting to feel as if a line is being teetered over dangerously, watch what you say yall.

Back to Smash, how do you feel about Assists? I personally think they’re pretty deadzo. If Nintendo or Sakurai really felt it then maybe one could get promoted, but I have little faith in that.

Considering we got two Spirit promotions in the same Pass and being an Assist had pretty much nothing to do with Spring Man not being in, I think that "rule" was pretty much put to rest.

It's just an issue of there not being a lot of characters that have a strong chance of being promoted from AT status on their own merits.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

But the question is which one to rep, Final Fantasy has a ton of characters and goig forward it'll probably be the 3rd party with the most reps, just who to add though? I see Gilgamesh, Terra, Kefka, Vivi, Zidane, Squall, Tidus, (Auron would be cool too), Yuna, and Noctis as the only viable character right now however using a basic class from the old games is possible too.

if you were to add three Final Fantasy character to smash who would you add?

I say three because i couldn't decide which to use, anyway im putting Down Gilgamesh, Terra and Fat Chocobo!!!!! but actually my real last one would probably be Tidus or someone from 10 even though I much prefer 9.

In his interview with Nomura Sakurai said that he could have included Terra, Bartz, or Onion knight so maybe the next FF characters could be one of those. Depending of the timing, the could also go with Clive (the protagonist of FF16). We don't know a lot about the games but he looks like a swordfighter but he also use some magic and summons so could be interesting.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

One month since the reveal of the Aegis duo.

What are still everyone's overall thoughts?

Boring but playable.

 

[mariofan48]

One month since the reveal of the Aegis duo.

What are still everyone's overall thoughts?

I don't really care about Xenoblade 2 at all, so my reaction to Pyra/Mythra is still meh. Just waiting some more to hopefully get a character from a franchise that I actually have a personal attachment to.

I would rather get a character that's not fun to play as at all, but is from a franchise that I have a personal attachment to, than a character that is so much fun to play but is from a franchise that I don't care about. There are plenty of people that like Pyra and Mythra, and that's fine, but after getting 10 DLC characters that are all from franchises that I don't have a personal attachment to (outlier might be Minecraft because I love Minecraft but I was never a huge advocate for Steve in Smash), I just want to see at least ONE character get in that I actually personally care about.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't really care about Xenoblade 2 at all, so my reaction to Pyra/Mythra is still meh. Just waiting some more to hopefully get a character from a franchise that I actually have a personal attachment to.

I would rather get a character that's not fun to play as at all, but is from a franchise that I have a personal attachment to, than a character that is so much fun to play but is from a franchise that I don't care about. There are plenty of people that like Pyra and Mythra, and that's fine, but after getting 10 DLC characters that are all from franchises that I don't have a personal attachment to (outlier might be Minecraft because I love Minecraft but I was never a huge advocate for Steve in Smash), I just want to see at least ONE character get in that I actually personally care about.

I kinda relate. I’m fine with all the characters so far but have yet to get one of my most wanteds. All the MWs I had going into Ultimate are pretty much done for (Elma, Fiora, Neku - although Neku MIGHT have a bit of wiggle room if Square wants to double dip) so my hope now is for MWs I picked up during the DLC period (Octoling, Reimu, Ahri, maybe Arle a bit, and also KOS-MOS)

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I kinda relate. I’m fine with all the characters so far but have yet to get one of my most wanteds. All the MWs I had going into Ultimate are pretty much done for (Elma, Fiora, Neku - although Neku MIGHT have a bit of wiggle room if Square wants to double dip) so my hope now is for MWs I picked up during the DLC period (Octoling, Reimu, Ahri, maybe Arle a bit, and also KOS-MOS)

I recall that you wanted Min Min no?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I recall that you wanted Min Min no?

She wasn’t a MAJOR want though

 

[Will]

although Neku MIGHT have a bit of wiggle room if Square wants to double dip

More like if Nintendo wants to double dip, which I don't know if they would. Also, imagine the baby rage from three RPG characters in a row.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm in the camp that felt like Xenoblade deserved another character but had no personal attachment to the series. I'm happy with Pyra and Mythra, but they weren't the characters that got me really excited.

I did want an ARMS character and Steve though, so I guess I've been catered to fairly well in this pass so far.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

More like if Nintendo wants to double dip, which I don't know if they would. Also, imagine the baby rage from three RPG characters in a row.

I for one would welcome the salt

I crave chaos ya dig

 

[Will]

I for one would welcome the salt

I crave chaos ya dig

It would be pretty funny though, people pulling their hair out on their knees because Nintendo said it's RPG city. They're gonna say Nintendo is ruining the franchise.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

More like if Nintendo wants to double dip, which I don't know if they would. Also, imagine the baby rage from three RPG characters in a row.

The only people complaining about JRPG characters are people who only ever play platformers and are terrified that platformers aren't as significant in the majority of the Smash roster as they'd like, I don't think Nintendo cares about that part of the fanbase enough to consider it an issue, especially as the first pass already had 3 RPG characters

 

[osby]

It would be pretty funny though, people pulling their hair out on their knees because Nintendo said it's RPG city. They're gonna say Nintendo is ruining the franchise.

So nothing different than the last six reveals?

 

[Will]

The only people complaining about JRPG characters are people who only ever play platformers and are terrified that platformers aren't as significant in the majority of the Smash roster as they'd like, I don't think Nintendo cares about that part of the fanbase enough to consider it an issue, especially as the first pass already had 3 RPG characters

Those are separate sentences, I don't believe Nintendo is really that influenced by the manchildren going "no anime! no swordfighters!" out in the streets.

 

[chocolatejr9]

More like if Nintendo wants to double dip, which I don't know if they would. Also, imagine the baby rage from three RPG characters in a row.

We must have ALL THE JRPG CHARACTERS in Smash! ALL OF THEM!!!!!!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Those are separate sentences, I don't believe Nintendo is really that influenced by the manchildren going "no anime! no swordfighters!" out in the streets.

My point is moreso that Nintendo already doesn't care about 'too much' of something getting repped in a pass, meaning they'd go "**** yeah add another SE character" if they had multiple SE characters on the priority list

 

[JustPlainDan]

In terms of where I stand on Pyra & Mythra a month after the reveal, while I can respect the fact that they have the makings of a potential Top tier fighter and that it gives XC more content, my feelings haven’t changed: was underwhelmed then, still underwhelmed today

 

[Super Devon]

One month since the reveal of the Aegis duo.

What are still everyone's overall thoughts?

Firstly, I will say, the music selection, stage choice, and the spirits are pretty freakin' good.
As for the characters themselves, To be honest, I'm a bit underwhelmed

despite their designs being a... well... Xenoblade 2 I guess, their gameplay looked really cool in their trailer, though the Sakurai presents raised some of my concerns, and yeah I was right.
but idk how to explain it, something about their overall playstyle just doesn't land well on me, despite my first online match that I solo'd with Pyra and took the W somehow

and this is coming from someone who bought Xenoblade Chronicles 2 shortly after they were announced for Smash, hoping to breeze through the game before the Sakurai presents spoiled stuff, that didn't happen but I almost had it, though game is great and I heavily recommend anyone who's interested to pick it up.

 

[DarthEnderX]

We must have ALL THE JRPG CHARACTERS in Smash! ALL OF THEM!!!!!!

Fortunately, they're all swordsmen. So they can all be Miis.

 

[Deleted member]

Pyra and Mythra were my most wanted characters so yeah I’d say I’m still over the moon with them. They play mostly just as I’d imagined too, although with Rex in the background instead of Pythra. Speaking of him there isn’t anything better than summoning your emotional support Rex on the Cloud Sea stage so it looks like he’s at his house lol. Only thing I can criticize is the lack of music. Don’t get me wrong they got all the necessary ones but XC2 is full of amazing songs so I’d need double the amount we got to be completely satisfied.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Pyra and Mythra were my most wanted characters so yeah I’d say I’m still over the moon with them. They play mostly just as I’d imagined too, although with Rex in the background instead of Pythra. Speaking of him there isn’t anything better than summoning your emotional support Rex on the Cloud Sea stage so it looks like he’s at his house lol. Only thing I can criticize is the lack of music. Don’t get me wrong they got all the necessary ones but XC2 is full of amazing songs so I’d need double the amount we got to be completely satisfied.

Sakurai: "We heard the complaints about Counterattack and are adding the entire XB2 OST in a patch, after all, Xenoblade is underrepped"


Every XCX fan on the planet:

 

[ColietheGoalie]

One month since the reveal of the Aegis duo.

What are still everyone's overall thoughts?

I’ve really enjoyed trying them out. The switching between styles is a lot of fun, and it’s nice to see a growing Nintendo series get some more love. Also they came with lots of fantastic music.

 

[SharkLord]

Forward Smash
Side Special
Up Special
Down Aerial to Up Smash

That's all I need out of Pyra

 

[SKX31]

One month since the reveal of the Aegis duo.

What are still everyone's overall thoughts?

Hoo boy:

* Mythra is in a weird state where she might be overtuned, but also kinda difficult to master completely A lot of it is Foresight: It has one significant advantage over Bat Within, and that's that Mythra can act immiediately after triggering Foresight, while Bayo is stuck for a brief moment. It might be difficult for a casual player to trigger either consistently, but Foresight offers so much reward if the player using it reacts to it quickly enough. It also makes her disadvantage state really good.

* Other than that, Mythra's also in a weird state when it comes to her normals. She's a rushdown with a sword, meaning that an adept Mythra can just decide "lol, I don't need to worry about neutral or my hits trading with an opponent". Her combination of really quick attacks + way-bigger-than-you'd-expect-hitboxes also allow for redonkolous comboes and juggling situations. Lightning Buster, Photon Edge and Ray of Punishment / Chrome Dust feel most of the time like the icing on the cake, which allows adept Mythra players to KO without switching. [Weird thing is, Mythra's U-Throw KOs earlier than Pyra's U-Throw. The More You Know.]

* Does Mythra have weaknesses? Yeah, particularily in terms of recovery as well as vs. characters who can rack up damage faster than her. But she looks good enough to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if she gets a couple nerfs in an upcoming patch. I don't think she's like super-broken, but she's got some absurd tools, and most of the 10-15 characters occupying the percieved top have absurd tools, so I could see her within the top at least.

* Still, she's my favorite to play as out of the two because it's exhilirating to just hit stuff with a sword consecutively. Quite annoying to play against because you're just going to get hit by her at least once or twice every 10-15 secs.

* Pyra's relative lack of mobility alone means a different playstyle, but that's not to say that it's particularily ineffective. Blazing End is good at denying space and ledgetrapping, even if it leaves her herself vurnerable. I'm not sure if Sakurai and co. intended the Blazing End footstool thing to be a thing, but still. Prominence Revolt is powerful as ****, but has so much endlag that if you can see it coming you can punish it with a really meaty move yourself. Most of her other moves - like F-Tilt and N-Air - do pack enough punch to the point where the opponent has to respect the option too.

* Several of her attacks - F-Smash, Up-B etc. are pure "Hardest Read" material and I love the idea, even if it in practice is not the optimal solution. But sometimes, doing the optimal thing isn't the point. As such, Pyra thrives off of mind games.

* Pyra's Down Air is crazy. Seriously, try it out. Since it spikes for like half of the swing it can confirm into Up Smash or Up Air depending on the situation. And while other characters like have Down-Air -> Up Smash confirms, Pyra's confirm feels more ridicolous because it feels like you've been hit by a ****ing cleaver. It's so meaty that I can't help but to get goosebumps every time it lands for a KO.

* Overall, Pyra feels also rather fun to play as. She can be a bit too much on the slow side for my personal liking, but she still has a decent ability to keep up with most of the cast thanks to her Byleth-esque range and her other tools. I don't think she on her own would be as good since her attacks are way more exploitable by adept opponents, but she's still viable in her own right. Also, Pyra's probably going to be the casual favorite of the two because she kills really early.

* In total, the two are difficult to call right now, but I could see Sakurai and co. maybe nerf them. Not just for competitive like the recent nerfs to Wario - if people discover cheese that destroys casual players they'll nerf that too. Like Min Min's "Scholar's Mate" Back Throw into Dragon Arm F-Smash cheese, which was a thing prior to 11.0.

* I don't care too much about new series or whatever, but hey, happy for the XC2 fans, even if I feel bad for the XCX fans.

 

[SpecterFlower]

I for one would welcome the salt

I crave chaos ya dig

I just like RPG's.

 

[Lyncario]

Mythra is super fun to play, though I still prefer Sheik overall. Pyra is fine, and while I find PROMINENCE REVOLT hilarious, I don't really use her a lot.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Aside from Ryu Hayabusa and Bomberman, what other classic NES-era third-party characters have yet to be playable?

 

[SharkLord]

Aside from Ryu Hayabusa and Bomberman, what other classic NES-era third-party characters have yet to be playable?

These guys are pretty much the definition of "Overlooked NES third-parties."