Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Rie Sonomura]

Honestly I think the next one will just go back to square one and be called Super Smash Bros or simply Smash Bros. I'm not sure if they will do a subtitle again or if they do what they'll go with since they've pretty much given up on the 'theme' after Melee/Brawl. Even Smash 4 didn't have a subtitle. Ultimate is fitting cuz...it's the ultimate version to date.

So if they 'go back to form' with a psuedo reboot they might just restart with the naming conventions. If they go further than ever after Ultimate with the next one I can't even begin to imagine what they'd title it.

good question

if it's a direct port of Ultimate with new stuff (characters and other things) I'd say Ultimate Deluxe, or even - i like this better - Ultimate Encore. Yes it was inspired by Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Encore, but also it's an encore of Ultimate so it's only fitting

if it's a direct successor to Ultimate while keeping EVERYONE IS HERE, I'd say... dare i say it... Infinite. YES I KNOW IM NOT HAPPY ABOUT THE MARVEL VS CAPCOM INFINITE FLASHBACKS EITHER. it was all i could think of ok

 

[chocolatejr9]

good question

if it's a direct port of Ultimate with new stuff (characters and other things) I'd say Ultimate Deluxe, or even - i like this better - Ultimate Encore. Yes it was inspired by Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Encore, but also it's an encore of Ultimate so it's only fitting

if it's a direct successor to Ultimate while keeping EVERYONE IS HERE, I'd say... dare i say it... Infinite. YES I KNOW IM NOT HAPPY ABOUT THE MARVEL VS CAPCOM INFINITE FLASHBACKS EITHER. it was all i could think of ok

I mean, I only thought of MVC because you mentioned it...

 

[Technomage]

Speaking of a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe, what new content and how much of it should/would it have?

Edit: Also, would Sakurai return as its lead designer?

 

[Wigglerman]

Speaking of a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe, what new content and how much of it should/would it have?

Edit: Also, would Sakurai return as its lead designer?

If I were 'conservative':

+6 Characters w/ respective stages/soundtracks/Spirit Boards
+All missing stages from prior games (I miss Pokéfloats, alright? Among others.)
+More Spirits (Easy content to add so I expect it would be a given)
+Ideally the return of Break The Targets/Board The Platforms and other fun side modes for people to soak up hours on to get records for this massive cast. If anything a 'Break The Targets/Board The Platforms creator) to upload said stages that people can then download and try out would be incredible if the tool kit was robust enough and not janky. Would let people get super creative creating character specific stages/challenges so the crew wouldn't have to (But would be nice if they did one for each character anyway but still allowed custom stages for more intense challenges by the player base).
+ROLL BACK NET CODE

Edit:
+Add back more items/assists. Many classic ones are missing. Even if I don't use them much, many more do and having a larger pool of jank is fun,
-Fix The Buffer System

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Speaking of a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe, what new content and how much of it should/would it have?

Edit: Also, would Sakurai return as its lead designer?

Beyond including both Fighter's Passes, and a formal Boss Rush mode, just throwing in a few unincluded stages (Sector Z, N64 Zebes, Melee Mute City, 3DS Rainbow Road, 3DS Pac-Man, & Orbital Gate Assault) would go a long way.

 

[Dinoman96]

For the record, the "Ultimate" moniker is something only Nintendo of America came up with.

The Japanese title for it is "Smash Bros. Special".

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Speaking of a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe, what new content and how much of it should/would it have?

several new base game fighters, plus all of Vanilla Ult's DLC already included. I'll list ones that I think for sure aren't gonna be the last two of this pass/likely wont be DLC in general.

• a SwSh Pokemon
• Elma (possibly with a Mecha-Fiora echo)
• KOS-MOS (with T-elos echo)
• Black Shadow, if F-Zero makes a comeback by then (may or may not be a Captain Falcon echo/semi clone)
• ArcSys character
• Dragonborn
• Bandana Dee or Adeline
• Octoling if they're not DLC. may or may not be an Inkling echo
• Crash if he isn't DLC
• sigh Hayabusa if he doesn't show up this cycle and isn't mii'd. I don't really like him but i do think he did excellent on the ballot, and the ballot was for all future games, not just Ultimate
• Reimu if she isn't DLC
• Arle if she isn't DLC (+ Tee echo)
• LoL character if they're not DLC
• Apex Legends character if they're not DLC (WHY Apex Legends??? I don't heckin know my dude)
• Falcom character if they're not DLC
• Violet (Joker echo)
• more echoes in general, i feel like echoes are a base game only deal
• any of either Dante, Phoenix, or Amaterasu
• maybe Ult DX/Encore will have its own DLC, though that remains to be seen. Given Square's propensity for DLC we could see Neku and/or 2B

More miis with music that come in base (please dont limit it to gunners...)

More assist trophies (includes Oracle, Coco Bandicoot, Aerith, the return of Saki Amamiya, AND THE ZEKENATOR BRINGER OF CHAOS)

Maybe more music? I need that banger that was in Heihachi's Mii costume segment and X music, obvi

more modes? a proper boss rush that isn't limited to Sephiroth's classic. Maybe throw in some old faces like Tabuu, Duon etc

Filling in gaps for Spirits (like my ongoing TMS Spirit squabble, you got Tsubasa where the heck are the others. also, Undertale spirits that do the thing with the Sans costume a la Cuphead)

maybe expansions/slight rearrangements to WoL. I already got some placements for the DLC + my hopefuls on the maps (imagine the irony of freeing Sephiroth in the Light Realm, to contrast Cloud in the Dark Realm)

speaking of WoL, DEBUG MODE AVAILABLE so we can access the WoL boss stages/possession/clone fighter effects outside of WoL. Hero's trailer had me wanting that hardcore

and last but certainly not least, BETTER NETCODE I BEG YOU

 

[Ivander]

Speaking of a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe, what new content and how much of it should/would it have?

Aside from new characters and new stages...
-Boss Select, and a couple new bosses.
-A couple new dungeons to do in World of Light due to the new bosses.
-More Spirits.
-A couple new Assist trophies for newer series.
-A couple new Mii costumes like Kid Icarus Uprising Fighter armor for all classes, a Federation Force mech Gunner outfit, Wonder Red Brawler outfit, etc.
-Smash Run, with an Options/Settings for stuff like amount of time, which enemies can appear, which event is done at the end of the match, etc.
-With Smash Run returning, that also means normal enemies as well. Normal enemies now appear in some Spirit battles, like Bonkers appearing in his Spirit Battle, Darknuts appear in the Darknut Spirit battle, etc.
-Some more returning stages like Planet Zebes, Rainbow Road and Pac-Maze.
-More music in general.
-More stuff for Stage creator. Background elements don't add to the limit bar.
-Better connection.

 

[PacificFun]

I have something to say regarding the next Smash being a Ultimate 2.0 or a reboot:

Smash Ultimate's gimmick is "EVERYONE IS HERE!" It's basically a celebration game of all things Smash. And with how successful it was and continues to be (along with the Switch's huge install base), it's going to be around for at least a decade.

So why can't the next Smash just do its own thing? Ultimate will always be there for yah. All of your favorite characters are going to still be in Ultimate, still playable. Ultimate 2.0 is such a boring and un-innovative way to continue with the series.

Yeah, Ultimate isn't perfect in the slightest, but it gets the job.

I don't think we're getting Ult 2.0 next. Hell, I don't even think Sakurai is coming back. We're going to enter a new era of Smash going forward. The next Smash should be able to do whatever it wants (just as long as it's not too polarizing).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Speaking of a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe, what new content and how much of it should/would it have?

Edit: Also, would Sakurai return as its lead designer?

-More newcomers
-More stages
-More modes notably Boss Rush, Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, World of Light Expansion notably more story and cutscenes

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Speaking of a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe, what new content and how much of it should/would it have?

Edit: Also, would Sakurai return as its lead designer?

Replace world of light with a Subspace Emissary sort of mode and have like a sub mode that tells the story of how the cut characters like Young Link, Pichu, Snake, Wolf, etc. returned to the series.

Custom break the targets/board the platforms in Stage Builder.

Then I'd change the roster to look like this but with the characters I cut in the roster... and maybe Rayman and Isaac added to the roster...

 

[CureParfait]

Speaking of a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe, what new content and how much of it should/would it have?

Edit: Also, would Sakurai return as its lead designer?

New Stages
New Music
More Newcomers
More Spirits
A better online connection

 

[chocolatejr9]

Speaking of a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe, what new content and how much of it should/would it have?

Edit: Also, would Sakurai return as its lead designer?

If Sakurai can't come back for whatever reason, can we get the guy who did the modern Kirby games (RTDL onward) to try Smash? Given what he managed to do with Kirby, I think he'd be a good fit...

 

[Wigglerman]

Replace world of light with a Subspace Emissary sort of mode and have like a sub mode that tells the story of how the cut characters like Young Link, Pichu, Snake, Wolf, etc. returned to the series.

Custom break the targets/board the platforms in Stage Builder.

Then I'd change the roster to look like this but with the characters I cut in the roster... and maybe Rayman and Isaac added to the roster...

View attachment 307231

You're basically advocating for a new installment not a 'definitive edition' of Ultimate at that point XD

 

[SpecterFlower]

If Sakurai can't come back for whatever reason, can we get the guy who did the modern Kirby games (RTDL onward) to try Smash? Given what he managed to do with Kirby, I think he'd be a good fit...

Kumazaki?

he woud make smash lore heart's more complicated than kingdom heart's lol.

I would say he's much better than sakurai at making kirby games, he really loves fanservice so if he's in charge the roster will have a ton of fanservice.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Kumazaki?

he woud make smash lore heart's more complicated than kingdom heart's lol.

I would say he's much better than sakurai at making kirby games, he really loves fanservice so if he's in charge the roster will have a ton of fanservice.

For what it's worth, crossovers DO like fanservice...

 

[PeridotGX]

Given we pretty much near our end of Ultimate speculation. When did you guys think it was at its best and funnest?

I kinda miss pre-E3 2018 speculation. There were so many more variables then than after the reveal. Who comes back? How do they change the veterans? What are the new stages? All those questions were answered day 1 of Ultimate, I'd like to see another game with a longer cycle.

 

[SharkLord]

• Reimu if she isn't DLC (+ Sanae echo Chrom style??)

I don't really think Touhou Echoes work in general. In Hisoutensoku, we get to see them side-by-side; Reimu has more thrusts and spins, and Sanae's swinging her stick around. Even if we discount the fighters, they have different shot types, with Reimu having the needles and talismans while Sanae has wind, snakes and frogs. Reimu also doesn't use her god-invoking abilities nearly as much as Sanae, to the point you'd be forgiven for forgetting she can even to that, and Sanae doesn't have a proper equivalent to Reimu's Yin-Yang Orbs. She'd be a semiclone at best. Touhou powersets in general are just too distinct and unique to make proper Echoes out of them without forcing them into an inaccurate portrayal, unless we want more Dark Samus situations.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't care what anyone says but to meandwill always be the long-overdue Holy Trinity that we finally have gotten.

Not for me obviously, but for the Smash community, I'd say that's completely accurate.

Ultimate is fitting cuz...it's the ultimate version to date.

Should be noted though that Ultimate isn't called Ultimate in Japan. It's called Special. Which doesn't sound very final.

 

[Louie G.]

I’d rather talk about the last two characters but while we’re still talking about the future, I personally doubt Sakurai is going anywhere.

It depends on how long it takes until the next installment and, god willing, if Sakurai is in good physical / mental condition to take it on, but Sakurai is a highly self motivated person. People seem to have the impression that he’s treated as some sort of social worker when in reality Sakurai does all of this because he WANTS to. He’s an overachiever and he’s a video game nerd who is making a dream crossover come true.

I honestly believe Smash is the old love that Sakurai can never separate from. Nintendo was going to go and continue Smash Bros with or without Sakurai, but it’s Sakurai who continues to come back. And of course they’ll continue to have him as long as he wants to - he’s a big part of Smash’s identity.

I want to see Sakurai take on some more original projects again, I'd especially love if he decided to revisit Kid Icarus for Switch. And I want the man to relax for a little while like everyone else, but next Smash won’t be for a good while anyway.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Speaking of a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe, what new content and how much of it should/would it have?

If it were up to me?

Ultimate Deluxe
Character Changes
-Give Ganondorf a completely unique moveset based on Hyrule Warriors Trident Ganondorf. Make Black Shadow Captain Falcon's Echo and give him Ganondorf's old moveset.
-Replace Mario's FLUDD with Cappy.
-Make each of Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon a separate character, give every Pokemon except Mewtwo a trainer.
-Give Chrom a new unique moveset. Make Lucina his Echo. Make Roy Marth's Echo.
-Make Mythra into Pyra’s Echo.
-Give Young Link and Toon Link different subweapons so they aren't just using the same Bow/Bomb/Boomerang combo as Adult Link.
-Give Falco the Sniper Rifle and Wolf the Machine Gun from StarFox Assault.
-Expand the definition of Echo to include Dr. Mario and Pichu.

Gameplay Features
-Rollback netcode.
-Make Hazardless versions of stages selectable from stage select the same way Omega and Battlefield versions are.
-Remember my last color selection for each character. Smash 3DS did this. No idea why Wii U and Ultimate don't.
-Actually balance FS Meter FSes so that people can actually use them in competitive.
-Boss Rush mode.
-Bring back the Smash Run map, but now it’s a 64 player Battle Royale.

Additional Content
-More Characters, Echoes, Bosses, obviously. Preferably from my wishlist.
-Mii Mages.
-Bring back any missing Stages and Assist Trophies that didn't already return.

 

[jadetheseer]

Speaking of a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe, what new content and how much of it should/would it have?

Edit: Also, would Sakurai return as its lead designer?

I would say:

• obviously all of the Fighter’s Pass characters included in the base roster
• six new characters: Paper Mario, Krystal, Issac, Akira Howard, Chun-Li & Knuckles
• nine new Echo’s: Octoling, Funky Kong, Ninten, Jody Summers, Lyn, Medusa, Jeanne, Liquid & Zack Fair
• a good selection of new stages, I’d stay from ten to fifteen. Issac & Akira would get a stage, Sonic desperately needs a new stage (Chemical Plant Zone or Casino Night Zone), Bowser’s Castle has been long overdue and finally a new version of PokeFloats
• of course a lot of new music
• more dynamic costumes for a lot of the characters
• more choices for Stage Builder
• Smash Run returns along with Break the Targets
• finally, some kind of new single-player mode. obviously it wouldn’t be like Emissary with the cutscenes and long levels but would instead be like a mix of WoL and the platforming levels in Melee’s adventure mode with the Smash Run enemies being re-purposed. the big twist would be that the final boss is...Tabuu!!

Maybe all of this would be too much for a re-release, however.

 

[Wigglerman]

Eh, I personally don't think FS's should be in competitive even if you did balance them. Competitive doesn't need them. They sort of screw with the flow of Smash overall unlike traditional fighting games where Supers Bars have more uses (Such as EX moves or special mechanics you can 'spend' some bar on). They work fine as a casual, flashy super finisher that just gets the job done but in one vs one competitive? Eh.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

A deluxe version of Smash Ultimate would include:

• Both FP1 and 2 contents being included with fighters, stages, music and spirits.
• DLC Mii Costumes from Nintendo (like Team Rocket or marina/callie) will be included on the cartridge. Third party DLC will be sold separately.
• 4 new characters from existing franchises with already represented fighters. (Dixie Kong, Chun-Li, Bandana Waddle Wee and Decidueye)
• World of Light expansion featuring some new zones with DLC Spirit Board spirits. There will be no DLC Spirit specific section.
• Stages for multiplayer using Ganon, Marx and Rathalos assets. (more MH music is being included)
• Music and spirits from newest switch games like Zelda BOTW2 and Splatoon 3. No new remixes. Maybe some third party music like a Virtua Fighter theme.
• Boss rush mode with 5 new bosses: Tabuu, Duon, Rayquaza, Dr.Eggman (if its not a fighter) and Porky. There are 3 different routes you can choose:

1) Light route: Giga Bowser, Rathalos, Dr.Eggman, Master Hand and Galeem
2) Dark route: Ganon, Marx, Dracula, Crazy Hand and Dharkon
3) Legacy route: Galleom, Duon, Porky, Rayquaza and Tabuu.

• Master Smash mode where you can replicate a special battle in WoL.
• 3 new assist trophies: Mumbo-Jumbo, Heihachi and Infantry and Tanks.
• 4 new Pokémon from Sword/Shield.
• Switch Pro support with 4k resolution.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honnestly the best part of Smash speculation is when somebody who never gets discussed for some reason ends up getting in a rumour that spreads like wildfire making people find something they like but never thought about, we had it for Dragon Quest, KOSMOS, Dante, Adol and many others and while only one of those came from a legit leak, it was still pretty damn fun seeing stuff that never got brought up suddenly get a bunch of mentions and adoration.

Speaking of Adol, I beat Ys Origin and Sakurai?

It's a fact that this guy would be cool, claws, flash steps, fire tornados and a goddamn DT? Toal would be ****ing sick even though he'll never happen

 

[DarthEnderX]

• Boss rush mode with 5 new bosses: Tabuu, Duon, Rayquaza, Dr.Eggman (if its not a fighter) and Porky. There are 3 different routes you can choose:

Light route: Giga Bowser, Rathalos, Dr.Eggman, Master Hand and Galeem
Dark route: Ganon, Marx, Dracula, Crazy Hand and Dharkon
Legacy route: Galleom, Duon, Porky, Rayquaza and Tabuu.

Don't see why the Boss Rush wouldn't just have you fight everyone. It wouldn't be any longer than All-Star mode.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Honnestly the best part of Smash speculation is when somebody who never gets discussed for some reason ends up getting in a rumour that spreads like wildfire making people find something they like but never thought about, we had it for Dragon Quest, KOSMOS, Dante, Adol and many others and while only one of those came from a legit leak, it was still pretty damn fun seeing stuff that never got brought up suddenly get a bunch of mentions and adoration.

Speaking of Adol, I beat Ys Origin and Sakurai?

View attachment 307236
It's a fact that this guy would be cool, claws, flash steps, fire tornados and a goddamn DT? Toal would be ****ing sick even though he'll never happen

We'll need to get Adol first before we can consider him...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

oh yeah

speaking of Switch Pro/Super Switch God the name "Switch Pro" REALLY rubs me the wrong way like stop trying to copy PS4 Pro what else would an Ult DX/Encore benefit from on Super Switch aside from improved graphics and processing power? perhaps more complex characters?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We'll need to get Adol first before we can consider him...

Considering that the Ys fighting game didn't even have Toal I think it's safe to say he's got a loooooong line to wait for Falcom characters but I just played his story and goddamn. Ys Origin is on the Switch so y'all have no excuse for trying it lol

 

[chocolatejr9]

Considering that the Ys fighting game didn't even have Toal I think it's safe to say he's got a loooooong line to wait for Falcom characters but I just played his story and goddamn. Ys Origin is on the Switch so y'all have no excuse for trying it lol

Let me finish Ys VIII first. I kept getting sidetracked by reality, so I STILL haven't finished it...

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Here's an interesting question, if indeed the rest of the pass is in fact only in companies that were in the first (Nintendo, Sega, SE, Microsoft, SNK) how would you fill the last two spots with just those five as choices?

Gonna go with some dark horse choices with mine, with Beat from Jet Set Radio from Sega & the Battletoads from Microsoft.

Dixie Kong and Sora.

 

[DarthEnderX]

speaking of Switch Pro/Super Switch God the name "Switch Pro" REALLY rubs me the wrong way like stop trying to copy PS4 Pro what else would an Ult DX/Encore benefit from on Super Switch aside from improved graphics and processing power? perhaps more complex characters?

Hopefully not. Some characters are too complex already.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

For the record, the "Ultimate" moniker is something only Nintendo of America came up with.

The Japanese title for it is "Smash Bros. Special".

If they made a Ultimate port, they should call the Western name "Super Smash bros Ultimate: special edition" and the Japanese name "Super smash bros special: Ultimate edition". (Just like Resident evil 7: Biohazard is called Biohazard 7: Resident evil in Japan).

 

[PeridotGX]

oh yeah

speaking of Switch Pro/Super Switch God the name "Switch Pro" REALLY rubs me the wrong way like stop trying to copy PS4 Pro what else would an Ult DX/Encore benefit from on Super Switch aside from improved graphics and processing power? perhaps more complex characters?

What gimmick would require a more powerful system to work on? Time Travel?

 

[cashregister9]

oh yeah

speaking of Switch Pro/Super Switch God the name "Switch Pro" REALLY rubs me the wrong way like stop trying to copy PS4 Pro what else would an Ult DX/Encore benefit from on Super Switch aside from improved graphics and processing power? perhaps more complex characters?

Maybe the cameos on Garreg Mach and The Cloud Sea could upgrade from PS2 quality.

I can also imagine things like more characters and stages with less compromises and the like.

Maybe even Spirit Descriptions

 

[Guynamednelson]

What gimmick would require a more powerful system to work on? Time Travel?

8 Rexes and 8 Pyras simultaneously.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

8 Rexes and 8 Pyras simultaneously.

And 8 Mythras.

 

[Wigglerman]

And 8 Mythras.

That's a Hell I don't want to live in.

 

[Technomage]

oh yeah

speaking of Switch Pro/Super Switch God the name "Switch Pro" REALLY rubs me the wrong way like stop trying to copy PS4 Pro what else would an Ult DX/Encore benefit from on Super Switch aside from improved graphics and processing power? perhaps more complex characters?

Maybe some more room to add more content?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Maybe some more room to add more content?

in all honesty i think that may be possible. starting to suspect the CSS holding 91 spots before crashing the game may, in fact, be tied to the hardware