Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Guynamednelson]

hey if Nintendo wanted to do a 1st party rep............... What do you all think of a Style Savvy character's chances?

It feels too much like a ****post than something seriously considered. I get that's not the intention, but come on, it's about fashion.

 

[3BitSaurus]

That image of Sephiroth with Sakurai's head is one of the most cursed things I've seen... today.

About the Tales discussion: on one hand Yuri does seem like the option that would please a larger portion of the Tales fanbase, but to be fair it's not like Lloyd and Symphonia are unpopular among the core fanbase either. I think the odds seem mostly even, if pending slightly towards Yuri due to the current trend of returning costumes.

 

[7NATOR]

hey if Nintendo wanted to do a 1st party rep............... What do you all think of a Style Savvy character's chances?

Even Among 1st parties, I don't think we get Style Savvy. But I don't know much about the series anyway, so I can't comment further than that

Quick question: would you guys be content if Shadow were one the three remaining fighters in FP2?

I'd probably risk having a Heart Attack, Because I'd be that excited if Shadow Joined the Playable roster, Officially, without the need for Mods

Wouldn’t “darkness-type characters” be like the perfect tournament for Shadow? And now Sepiroth has it.

I'd Imagine that Shadow's tournament would be based of Rival Characters

Shadow's Whole thing is being a Dark Reflection of Sonic, in terms of Personality, Looks, and even abilities. Even when He's not Literally Rivaling Sonic, Metaphorically he is (I actually like it more when he rivals Sonic in a metaphorical way instead of Literally, unless the Literal Rivalry is built up in a great way)

It is something I did think about when I first saw Sephiroth's Tourney though to be honest. because in SA2 he was advertised has being the Dark version of Sonic. Part of me still doesn't know how to feel to be honest

 

[Deleted member]

I Imagine thought that we have a Tourney which is just Villain themed, where you can only play as Villain Characters, and we haven't gotten that yet.

With that being said, I think Sword Characters or characters with Bladed weapons benefit more from this, since I thought Sephiroth's tourney would be based of his Sword, since it is an Iconic part of him, and his code Name references his Sword as well

1.) Heroes vs. Villains entirely overlaps with a villain only tourney so it’d be redundant to a degree.
2.) I personally don’t think there’s much of a reason to care about tourney themes in speculation considering Sakurai can just BS whatever he wants after the fact. For example, nobody would’ve batted an eye if Min Min’s tourney was for characters with long reach or if Sephiroth’s was for fighters with wings. There’s way too much wiggle room a character can have with their tourney theme for it to matter at all.

 

[Faso115]

I would suggest a mechless Eggman be the fastest character in the game

 

[SharkLord]

It feels too much like a ****post than something seriously considered. I get that's not the intention, but come on, it's about fashion.

I mean, we have two characters about running a village already. Surely fashion designing isn't too much of a stretch.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

With Tales, if they want to approach fans who have played Tales before AS WELL AS people who haven’t but may know of the series based on a particular character...Lloyd has the definite edge there.

A friend of mine who has never played the series before knows Lloyd and Symphonia. This is anecdotal but I don’t think it’s a singular experience for people who haven’t played Tales. After all, if somebody hasn’t played Final Fantasy, who is the character you think they know? It’s probably Cloud.

I do think the comparison that SharkLord put out was pretty good, in that Lloyd is Cloud to Tales as a series. I plan on playing Vesperia in the new year as I’ve heard good things, but I do think folks are underselling Lloyd a bit based on popularity alone. I don’t know how wise that is.
—-
Also, I played Street Fighter V for the first time in over a few years and bros, Chun-Li would be a lot of fun! I like using her in SFV so I think I’d be more than willing to get her in Smash!

 

[shinhed-echi]

Quick question: would you guys be content if Shadow were one the three remaining fighters in FP2?

Pfffffff!
Hell YEAH!

Any Sonic character at this point is appreciated.
I'm the least confident about Shadow (and even less about Knuckles), but if he's in, then yes, I'd be extremely content.

 

[Technomage]

Quick question: would you guys be content if Shadow were one the three remaining fighters in FP2?

As long as he's not a repeat of Daisy, Richter, and Dark Samus, assuming he'd be an echo. The minimum amount of differences I would like him and Sonic to have would be for Shadow to have one of the spin dash specials replaced with a gun attack.

 

[ahemtoday]

I've always envisioned Eggman as being in the Egg Walker with his neutral-B being based on the lock-on laser attack that he (and every other shooting character in a 3D Sonic) used in it. For when he needs hands, he can just... grab something with his real hands, I reckon.

He'd be a little similar to Mega Man in the sense that most of his attacks, normal and special, are based on specific attacks he's done. In Eggman's case, various parts from the mechs he's piloted come out to perform an attack. Most of Eggman's machines are built around the Egg Mobile or at least have the Egg Mobile slot into the cockpit. This would limit us to some of the simpler ones, but there are still enough of those. Almost all of the mechs from Sonic 1 and the Egg Hornet come to mind. Push comes to shove, we can always simplify a design.

However, I would also want to represent the Egg Mobile he's usually in. As such, his up-B would retract the legs of the Egg Walker and allow him to fly freely... for a period of time. It'd be like R.O.B., but he has a lot more control in the air and can actually still attack. However, to prevent encouraging a campy playstyle, he could only get more flight time (shown as a gauge above his damage meter) by being close to his opponent or landing (non-projectile) hits on them.

Also counterbalancing his powerful up-B is his reliance on it for air mobility - specifically vertical. While he can jump is high enough to reach a Battlefield platform in one jump, he doesn't have a double-jump, instead possessing a jet booster that slows his fall. It's good for recovering horizontally and great for getting out of juggles... but not so good for getting back up onto the stage. Don't get spiked without fuel!

EDIT: Oh, man, I almost forgot to mention the other two specials!

With a moveset like this, a lot of your attacks are going to feel like specials, so the ones that actually are specials need to have some special significance. We already have the neutral B (Homing Missile, a slow lock-on projectile that's good for free-for-alls and forcing the enemy to shield or dodge), and up-B (Egg Mobile, a powerful recovery and air movement tool that's a limited resource). For the other two, I wanted to choose attacks based on important mechs - not just another boss.

So his side-B is Big Arm. Two big arms come out the side of the Egg Mobile and then it rushes forward in an arc that sweeps slightly upward off of the ground. It's a command grab - if it catches someone, it slams them into the ground, burying them. This is based off of the final boss of the original Sonic 3.

His down-B... well, I'm not sure about this. Originally, I wanted it to be the wrecking ball that's the first boss of Sonic 1, but it's not quite looking right in my head. It could swing around with a physics system while you're in the Egg Mobile, but I'm not sure how it would look on the ground.

My second guess is trying out the Death Egg Robot on down-B as some kind of Falcon Punch-like attack with a really elaborate animation, but that feels a little mechanically bland and also isn't quite looking right. Hm.

Any ideas on this?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

To be honest, I'm not sure how to do that

I thought the main reason of Theories were used to try and predict which characters will be coming in the future. That's what I was trying to do with Shadow at least

Thinking about it more, perhaps I Might be the only one that benefits from some of my Theory craft. I remember that I shared the Shadow in Bayonetta 3 Theory and I don't think anyone but me (and perhaps very few others) were on board. and While I do ackwnoeldge some of my theories are an Stretch, My Brain does think that there are merits to the theories, like I do think Platinum is doing something with Sonic in the future, whether it be Sonic Content in Bayonetta 3, perhaps Sonic Adventure 3, or something like that

But like I said, I don't know how to. I Like talking about Shadow coming to Smash, and I can't just keep it inside my Head, but I can see that people still aren't on board with the idea, or at least it being realistic

and to be honest, I don't think Shadow will ever be Speculated again, until Perhaps he gets in the game. He'll be overshadowed by Eggman, Chun-Li, Waluigi, Even other Sega characters like Arle. And Shadow as an unique charcater has never been taken seriously like that since even in Base game Speculation, it was as him as an Echo. Even after Isabelle got in, Shadow as an echo still prevailed. It's alright though

I don't have much of a horse in this race as I don't care about Shadow nor do I think he's incredibly likely, but I do care about good speculation, so I'll chip in here,

When it comes to speculating, theorycrafting, or any sort of argumentation you always need points and evidence for your stance to stand on if you want to be taken seriously. This means citing proper primary and secondary sources and interpreting them in a way that benefits your argument but also isn't too far of a reach. You were on the right track by bringing up the Sakurai interview, but you reached too far when interpreting it, and had your point immediately undermined. In the future, providing more sources to support your argument would be advised.

Second, the strength of these points will vary depending on how absolute your claim is. The claim "Shadow could possibly be one of the last 3 DLC fighters" doesn't need to prove itself nearly as much as the claim "Shadow will definitely be one of the last 3 DLC fighters." This is why my long-form speculation pieces never make definitive claims, only introduce possibilities and argue for likelihood. It means I have less to prove and I don't have to fight as hard upstream against the inevitable counterarguments I'll run into. That being said, you should always consider prominent counterarguments and make sure to either address or acknowledge them, lest your argument be completely undermined.

The major problem you seem to be running into is that you'll take one piece of evidence, twist it to confirm that Shadow is absolutely, 100% getting into Smash, and then immediately get your argument toppled by the most basic of counterarguments. You continue to do this, and each time you do people take you less seriously because it's essentially the Boy crying Wolf (or in this case, the fan crying Shadow). I would suggest that in the future you synthesize evidence from multiple points, be realistic with your arguments, and ensure that you address prominent counterarguments–of which you'll face many.

The argument for Shadow to be in Smash is, at this point, incredibly difficult. I don't even know if I could make a convincing piece arguing for his likelihood because by all known precedent he is disconfirmed, and the case for an Assist Trophy Upgrade is much stronger for a character such as Waluigi–who has outrageous fan demand–or Alucard–who we know Sakurai almost included over the Belmonts. I don't envy your position, because you have a lot of work to do to convince people that Shadow is even remotely likely, let alone confirmed.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I'm not convinced we would get style switching, to be honest. Even if we got Dante.

The only characters that switch weapons or styles or anything like that in Ultimate are Pokemon Trainer (who was grandfathered in), Min Min (whose only animation differences between ARMS are the way they behave at the end with no difference on Min Min herself), and Steve (who uses the same animation regardless of whether he's holding a tool or not). I'm not a Devil May Cry expert, but this seems... more complicated than that.

And it's not like it's an integral part of his character. Marvel didn't give it to him.

After Steve's ability to mine forced the dev team to change the game's coding, I feel as though Sakurai could probably make anyone work if he wanted too. Dante's complexity would be a natural step down from Steve no matter what.

 

[7NATOR]

1.) Heroes vs. Villains entirely overlaps with a villain only tourney so it’d be redundant to a degree.
2.) I personally don’t think there’s much of a reason to care about tourney themes in speculation considering Sakurai can just BS whatever he wants after the fact. For example, nobody would’ve batted an eye if Min Min’s tourney was for characters with long reach or if Sephiroth’s was for fighters with wings. There’s way too much wiggle room a character can have with their tourney theme for it to matter at all.

Perhaps

For me Personally, When it comes to Theory Crafting around the online tourneys, The most important thing to look for is for what Type of Tourney is not in the game at all

This is part of why I Expect another Character that originated in the 2010's. We've gotten all the other Era tourneys but this one, and After Steve would have been the perfect time if he was the last 2010's Character (Steve is based of his 2011 Java Release).

Here's a List of Potential Tourneys that Haven't been in the game yet, that could be used in the Theorycraft (with potential characters in the Parathesis)

-2010's Tourney (Monokuma, Velvet, Freddy Fazbear, Apex Legends charcater, Xenoblade character, Dragalia Lost Character, Granblue Character, Fortnite, Etc)
-Swordfighter Tourney (Lloyd, Yuri, Dante, Nightmare, Sakura, Adol, Rean, Rex, Elma, etc)
-Super Bash Sisters (Chun-Li, Velvet, Shantae, KOS-MOS, Reimu, Arhi, Etc)
-Projectile Based Tourney (Reimu, KOS-MOS, any FPS/Shooter Character)
-Villains/Rivals only Tourney (but like you said, it could be considered redundent) (Eggman, Monokuma, Shadow, etc)

There's probably more, but these are the main ones

I think the 2010's Tourney is the most important one to look at. The Projectile based tourney could be kinda considered redundent since like pupNapoleon mentioned back then, Steve's Tourney includes alot of Characters that are based around Projectiles. The Swordfighter Tourney and Super Bash Sisters tourney are ones that seem logical to have, but unlike the 2010's Tourney, we don't 100% know they will do a tourney like that

There's also the problem that they can just Throw these tourneys at any time. But until the tourney shows up, the Theorycraft continues on

 

[DarthEnderX]

-His comment about making Boss Characters feel like Boss Characters might be a good...and Bad thing however, and the perfect example to show off these Implications is Eggman

This SOUNDS like, he'd prefer it if Boss characters were Bosses, rather than PCs.

Probably why Ridley was a Boss for two games until I assume the ballot pressured him into making him playable.

Personally, I agree with that position, but since Boss DLC is unlikely that means no big bosses(like Eggman), until Smash 6.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Depends on if a major revival of the series is in the works and Nintendo wants to promote it.

That being said, Style Savvy was a hallmark of Nintendo's push into the casual market in the DS and 3DS eras, and is a glaring omission on the Switch as of right now. I could definitely see a revival being the works and Nintendo wanting to legitimize the series by putting it in Smash. Is it the most likely thing? No. But it's possible.

Also Savvy Stylist is one of the best first party characters they can add above pretty much every other common pick here don't @ me

The only 2 long running series that still have life in them from Nintendo are Style Savvy and Rhythm Heaven, I would expect to see characters from them eventually.

 

[Momotsuki]

Yikes, that's one hell of a text wall to tell somebody not to want a character.

 

[zumaddy]

Depends on if a major revival of the series is in the works and Nintendo wants to promote it.

That being said, Style Savvy was a hallmark of Nintendo's push into the casual market in the DS and 3DS eras, and is a glaring omission on the Switch as of right now. I could definitely see a revival being the works and Nintendo wanting to legitimize the series by putting it in Smash. Is it the most likely thing? No. But it's possible.

Also Savvy Stylist is one of the best first party characters they can add above pretty much every other common pick here don't @ me

Co-signed, these games slap and Style Savvy coming after Sephiroth would be the GOAT gaming crossover

 

[Polan]

Yikes, that's one hell of a text wall to tell somebody not to want a character.

its not a smash speculation thread if there arent text walls

 

[Flyboy]

hey if Nintendo wanted to do a 1st party rep............... What do you all think of a Style Savvy character's chances?

Literally my most wanted first party. Great games, super unique aesthetic, funny and varied, interesting moveset based on resource management and business sim mechanics, would really stand out, and the music is awesome. No downsides to me.

 

[zumaddy]

Man I actually did Smash fanart for Stylist a while ago, lemme get it off my PC (I should probably re-do it, it's old and not great)

 

[SpecterFlower]

Stylist and karate joe are probably the 2 biggest omissions for smash, they both have their spots in video game history as well as have been successful and critical praised, it doesn't feel like a true crossover of Nintendo characters without them.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Style Savvy is hella underrated in terms of first parties, it's the kind of series that never dies so we could get a new entry any day now. While understandably not the kind of character that people are hoping to get, I think most would take to a fashionista duking it out with the Smash cast.

If you aren't sold yet, just listen to Ring a Ding. Nobody can resist the chance to get more bangers like that.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think it's less about the character's status as a villain and more about going down the ladder.

Next to Cloud, Sephiroth is arguably the most iconic FF7 character. So naturally, if you're thinking of adding a second rep to a third-party franchise, you'd probably want to add who you'd consider to be the most important/iconic character. Once you factor in the heroes, sidekicks, damsels in distress, and characters with other notable roles, villains sometimes end up third or fourth in line. No one questions why Luigi, Diddy Kong, or Falco got in before their respective franchises' villains because it's hard to argue that any of these guys are less notable.

As more and more of the competition gets in Smash, it'll be easier for us to get villains.

 

[SpecterFlower]

what even first (realistic) 1st party's are left? Ring fit and astral chain are way too new to be in talks unless FP2 was decided literally moments before it was announced, everything else is dead; maybe Box-boy could join? the only 2 New 1st party ips I see being put into smash as characters Are Rhythm Heaven and Style Savvy.

 

[Ben Holt]

This SOUNDS like, he'd prefer it if Boss characters were Bosses, rather than PCs.

Probably why Ridley was a Boss for two games until I assume the ballot pressured him into making him playable.

Personally, I agree with that position, but since Boss DLC is unlikely that means no big bosses(like Eggman), until Smash 6.

I mean, we have Giga Bowser and Beast Ganon as bosses. Why not have a giant or even mecha Ridley?
Though it surprises me that they didn't turn Yellow Devil into a boss battle. Just turn up the aggression and give it some extra HP, and it's golden.
Metalface also could have been a boss.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Yikes, that's one hell of a text wall to tell somebody not to want a character.

If you're referring to my post, then I'd like to ask you to where I said "you shouldn't want this character" in it? I never said that, rather I was saying "if you want to convince other people of this character's chances, here are some suggestions." Two completely different things, and I don't appreciate being taken out of context as such.

In the event this isn't about my post, then just ignore this. A direct quote would help for context next time, however.

 

[cashregister9]

what even first (realistic) 1st party's are left? Ring fit and astral chain are way too new to be in talks unless FP2 was decided literally moments before it was announced, everything else is dead; maybe Box-boy could join? the only 2 New 1st party ips I see being put into smash as characters Are Rhythm Heaven and Style Savvy.

Dragalia Lost is the last big one I can think of but even then it has the barrier of not being available in parts of Europe. Pokemon and Xenoblade are also there but they both have unknown factors potentially keeping them out. Other series like Kirby and Zelda I cannot really see unless a new game is coming soon. (Kirby Fighters 2 and Age Of Calamity aren't nearly as big of deals as this thread made them out to be.)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You guys sleepin on Splatoon and it shows

namely the Octo Expansion...

 

[SpecterFlower]

Dragalia Lost is the last big one I can think of but even then it has the barrier of not being available in parts of Europe. Pokemon and Xenoblade are also there but they bot have unknown factors potentially keeping them out. Other series like Kirby and Zelda I cannot really see unless a new game is coming soon. (Kirby Fighters 2 and Age Of Calamity aren't nearly as big of deals as this thread made them out to be.)

I was referring to new franchises entirely. yeah i guess i forgot about dragalia lost but being unable to play in a lot of the world and being stuck on mobile phones really hinders it. but speaking of old franchises Kirby 2021 is a possibility, I doubt they would add much for Botw2 other than spirits if it came out next year. maybe AC get's a character idk.

Edit: Octoling could be added as well.... probably in the next game i'm hoping for it though.

 

[7NATOR]

I don't have much of a horse in this race as I don't care about Shadow nor do I think he's incredibly likely, but I do care about good speculation, so I'll chip in here,

When it comes to speculating, theorycrafting, or any sort of argumentation you always need points and evidence for your stance to stand on if you want to be taken seriously. This means citing proper primary and secondary sources and interpreting them in a way that benefits your argument but also isn't too far of a reach. You were on the right track by bringing up the Sakurai interview, but you reached too far when interpreting it, and had your point immediately undermined. In the future, providing more sources to support your argument would be advised.

Second, the strength of these points will vary depending on how absolute your claim is. The claim "Shadow could possibly be one of the last 3 DLC fighters" doesn't need to prove itself nearly as much as the claim "Shadow will definitely be one of the last 3 DLC fighters." This is why my long-form speculation pieces never make definitive claims, only introduce possibilities and argue for likelihood. It means I have less to prove and I don't have to fight as hard upstream against the inevitable counterarguments I'll run into. That being said, you should always consider prominent counterarguments and make sure to either address or acknowledge them, lest your argument be completely undermined.

The major problem you seem to be running into is that you'll take one piece of evidence, twist it to confirm that Shadow is absolutely, 100% getting into Smash, and then immediately get your argument toppled by the most basic of counterarguments. You continue to do this, and each time you do people take you less seriously because it's essentially the Boy crying Wolf (or in this case, the fan crying Shadow). I would suggest that in the future you synthesize evidence from multiple points, be realistic with your arguments, and ensure that you address prominent counterarguments–of which you'll face many.

The argument for Shadow to be in Smash is, at this point, incredibly difficult. I don't even know if I could make a convincing piece arguing for his likelihood because by all known precedent he is disconfirmed, and the case for an Assist Trophy Upgrade is much stronger for a character such as Waluigi–who has outrageous fan demand–or Alucard–who we know Sakurai almost included over the Belmonts. I don't envy your position, because you have a lot of work to do to convince people that Shadow is even remotely likely, let alone confirmed.

It might be difficult to perhaps make a Convincing piece, and it would be alot of writing to do, but if it's the only way to perhaps get people to perhaps take another look at Shadow, then so be it

But I have to wonder, How Much writing should I actually do. I know people attention span do sometimes be very short and I tend to write alot. Like Do I have to have a Moveset at the ready as well because I Know people question how Unique Shadow would be, but it might make the Page count too long. I don't even know if Smashboards would be able to account for a large essay like that

 

[cashregister9]

You guys sleepin on Splatoon and it shows

namely the Octo Expansion...

My Mind is telling me that it has a very small chance

My heart is telling me that it is bigger than I think and I should believe

Due to the holidays I will choose to follow my heart

 

[MooMew64]

You guys sleepin on Splatoon and it shows

namely the Octo Expansion...

Speaking as the certified Octoling Guy...

Like, they are by far my most wanted Smash character right now, but I think our only hope at this point is if there's a bonus Echo update at the end. I don't think we're gonna see Semi-Clones make it into the Fighter's Pass, unfortunately.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

It might be difficult to perhaps make a Convincing piece, and it would be alot of writing to do, but if it's the only way to perhaps get people to perhaps take another look at Shadow, then so be it

But I have to wonder, How Much writing should I actually do. I know people attention span do sometimes be very short and I tend to write alot. Like Do I have to have a Moveset at the ready as well because I Know people question how Unique Shadow would be, but it might make the Page count too long. I don't even know if Smashboards would be able to account for a large essay like that

It depends on how much you want to write about.

Whenever I go about writing any essay (not just a speculation piece), I always outline my work with the points I want to make and the sources I'll be using to back those up. For example, here's a rough outline of my previous Gordon piece:

Spoiler: Rough Outline

• Notoriety; Representative of PC Gaming w/Steam
  • Long-standing platform, since 2003
  • https://www.geekwire.com/2017/valve-reveals-steams-monthly-active-user-count-game-sales-region/
  • https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/312771/Steam_sets_new_concurrent_user_record_at_185M.php
• PC gaming in Japan
  • https://www.pcgamer.com/how-japan-learned-to-love-pc-gaming-again/
  • https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/hxlj47/how_is_pc_gaming_in_japan/
    • https://www.famitsu.com/news/201806/11158825.html
    • https://www.gamespot.com/forums/sys...ge-in-japan-now-unstoppable-pc-grow-33448932/
  • Wider recognition of PC as a platform for games; Japanese companies porting/developing with PC in mind
• Valve and Nintendo
  • “Jealousy comment” –– they don’t actually hate each other
    • https://nintendoeverything.com/valv...ity-to-create-hardware-and-software-together/
  • Portal Bridge Constructor; while not developed by valve, valve property on Switch
    • https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/bridge-constructor-portal-switch/
  • 2012 meeting; are open to working together
  • Source Code leak & Half-Life Tactics: Nintendo acknowledges the popularity of the Half Life series
    • https://www.wired.com/story/counter-strike-global-offensive-team-fortress-2-code-leak/
    • https://smashboards.com/threads/ris...freeman-for-smash.480815/page-6#post-23947929
    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8KJsG91Bno&feature=emb_title
  • Sub-point about past negotiations, tie into recent speculation on 5chan negotiation “leak” and insider info on Steve speculation
    • https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-dlc-speculation-discussion.453424/page-4813#post-24211016
    • https://smashboards.com/attachments/p82ysa0hdyeaaaaasuvork5cyii-png.287798/
  • Gabe Newell’s remarks on Nintendo and Smash
    • https://twitter.com/rskyoyomann/status/1105274946295615488
    • https://twitter.com/TheJediSonic/status/1154055945212891138

On Half-Life

• Half-Life Series
  • Intro: Legacy, representative of PC gaming etc.
  • Sales
    • Western https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_(series)#Sales, https://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21319
    • Alyx https://uploadvr.com/half-life-alyx-2-million/
      • https://www.roadtovr.com/steam-survey-vr-headset-growth-april-2020-half-life-alyx/
      • https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...reaches-43-000-concurrent-users-on-launch-day
    • Japanese sales/popularity?
  • Japanese Arcade release
    • https://half-life.fandom.com/wiki/Half-Life_2:_Survivor
    • https://www.siliconera.com/groove-coaster-interview-groove-coaster-wai-wai-party-switch-songs/
    • https://combineoverwiki.net/wiki/Half-Life_2:_Survivor
  • Sakurai column
    • https://sourcegaming.info/2017/07/12/feelofamericangames/
    • Grain of salt
  • Recent appearances in Japanese franchises
    • FFXV
      • https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2018/2/22/17039910/final-fantasy-15-windows-half-life-costume
    • Death Stranding
      • https://twitter.com/505_Games/status/1234508774104322048
    • Phantasy Star Online 2
      • https://twitter.com/play_pso2/status/1288157286767173632
  • Longevity within Valve
    • https://www.ign.com/articles/half-life-3-left-4-dead-3-details-cancelled-valve
  • Revitalization after Alyx
    • https://www.roadtovr.com/gabe-newell-half-life-alyx-valve-energized/

An outline should give you a rough idea of how long your piece is going to be depending on the number and depth of your points.

If you'd like to include potential moveset ideas to make a point about how unique Shadow could be in spite of counterarguments, then definitely include that.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Adding on to this, Symphonia still managed to show up in second-most and third-most played Tales games, while Vesperia didn't show up in either
View attachment 297068
I think a lot of people hopped on the Vesperia train with the definitive edition and sank more time into it, but Symphonia still got a more evenly-spread level of playtime across the playerbase. There's also the fact that it had developed a reputation as the first of the 3D Tales games, and so more people went to it first as a result. However, the more archaic gameplay may have led them to enjoy the more recent games more.

Interestingly, Tales of the Abyss actually ranks higher than Vesperia AND Symphonia in all three most-played categories. Maybe we should start predicting Luke instead.

I think Vesperia not showing up in the second and the third most played game while it's managed to rank in the second place in the most played game indicates that Vesperia is THE people's entry point to Tales of series.

 

[SNEKeater]

That's kinda where I'm at too. I will admit I have never played a Tales game, but from what I've heard and read Yuri as a character makes more sense to include than Lloyd. Like, getting banned from the popularity poll of your own franchise after dominating them for years is a sign that you kinda maybe slightly could be the most popular character in said franchise

But hey what do I know? I play Trails, not Tales.

I have only played Symphonia and Vesperia but I'm in a similar position. Not really a dedicated Tales fan, but from what I've seen Lloyd is definitely more popular with the Nintendo/Smash crowd, which obviously isn't a small accomplishment. But beyond that? Yuri definitely feels more popular with the overall audience, at least from my experience. Not only him but also Velvet from Tales of Berseria.

That doesn't mean Lloyd isn't popular with Tales fans, he is, but Yuri seems absurdly popular in the Tales community. And despite what some would think, Tales isn't really a small series even if it's more popular in Japan. So I wouldn't really underestimate Yuri's popularity among Tales fans because I could see Nintendo going for him. If it was up to Sakurai, and according to the info we have, which is literally that interview where he talked about Lloyd's Mii Costume, then the obvious answer would be Lloyd, though as I always said with Geno: we don't know if he still thinks the same. People change their mind sometimes.

I don't know. Nintendo is the one choosing the characters so I guess the result will depend on how Nintendo approaches Sakurai for a Tales character:

• If they ask him to add a Tales representative, without suggesting any names, then I'm guessing Sakurai would choose Lloyd
• But if Nintendo decides to ask for a specific character from Tales, I feel Yuri would be the most likely name they would propose to Sakurai

I still think it's 50/50, maybe 60/40 towards Yuri. In the end it depends in how Nintendo approaches this, I believe. If they want to bring Tales fans to Smash I don't think it's crazy to say Yuri would be the most attractive option. If they want to please more the Nintendo crowd then it would be Lloyd. And I don't want to be that guy but looking at all the DLC characters they have added, I don't think "pleasing the hardcore Smash fans" it's a thing they care a lot.

Personally I'd be cool with both. Personality wise I like Yuri a bit more, while Lloyd is more of a likable guy. For anyone who isn't familiar with them I can understand they would rather have Lloyd because he is a dual sword wielder and that's unique in the context of Smash, I guess he's also visually more different in comparison to other JRPG characters we have, while maybe Yuri seems a bit more standard for Smash.

I'm not convinced we would get style switching, to be honest. Even if we got Dante.

The only characters that switch weapons or styles or anything like that in Ultimate are Pokemon Trainer (who was grandfathered in), Min Min (whose only animation differences between ARMS are the way they behave at the end with no difference on Min Min herself), and Steve (who uses the same animation regardless of whether he's holding a tool or not). I'm not a Devil May Cry expert, but this seems... more complicated than that.

And it's not like it's an integral part of his character. Marvel didn't give it to him.

I agree with the first sentence. If Dante was added to Smash I don't think style switching would be 100% part of his moveset. But style switching not appearing in Smash (or in MvC) wouldn't mean it isn't an important part of his character. Not talking about his personality because style switching has nothing to do with personality, but it's definitely a thing very associated with Dante. It's no coincidence that Dante has kept the different styles since DMC3.

And answering to the previously discussed topic of Dante not bringing nothing new to Smash... I don't know man, even if he doesn't have style switching I can't really name a lot of characters with more room for moveset potential than Dante. He just has so much stuff. Dante in Smash in terms of gameplay is a "hard" question because there's like 3 or 4 ways, if no more, to approach the character. So it's hard to predict what he would bring, but he would for sure bring something new and unique.

 

[Ben Holt]

This leak going around that Hayabusa, Doom Slayer, and Rayman are the final three characters is not the most unbelievable, and it's actually a damned fine selection, but I cannot help missing Crash, as he is my most wanted.
So I'm torn as to whether or not I want this leak to be true.
If it is, then I definitely want a third Fighter's Pass with Crash, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Noler_Mass]

If there’s a Tales rep I’m fairly confident it would be Lloyd, but I doubt there will be a Tales rep.

Especially now that Cacomallow is for sure false, I’m throwing any leaks involving Doom Guy straight into the garbage bin. Bethesda closed that door months ago.

 

[Perkilator]

Merry Christmas!

Here's to all the terrible ice puns from Batman & Robin!

Speaking of which, what's a good sole ice user we could have besides ?

 

[StrawHatX]

what even first (realistic) 1st party's are left? Ring fit and astral chain are way too new to be in talks unless FP2 was decided literally moments before it was announced, everything else is dead; maybe Box-boy could join? the only 2 New 1st party ips I see being put into smash as characters Are Rhythm Heaven and Style Savvy.

Golden Sun? Although I’ll admit without a new entry it’s very unlikely.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Suicune would be Icy™️