Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[cashregister9]

Speaking of which, what's a good sole ice user we could have besides ?

Arthas or Jaina from World Of Warcraft

Arthas is less Ice Magic exclusively but is a combination of Ice and Unholy magic

Jaina is almost exclusively an Ice mage.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I mean, we have Giga Bowser and Beast Ganon as bosses. Why not have a giant or even mecha Ridley?
Though it surprises me that they didn't turn Yellow Devil into a boss battle. Just turn up the aggression and give it some extra HP, and it's golden.
Metalface also could have been a boss.

No arguement there.

They shoulda brought back Porky and Rayquaza too. And left out Galeom.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Merry Christmas!

Here's to all the terrible ice puns from Batman & Robin!

Speaking of which, what's a good sole ice user we could have besides ?

Idgaf if he's not relevant or a oneshot, I want Rundas.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

No arguement there.

They shoulda brought back Porky and Rayquaza too. And left out Galeom.

My guess is that they wanted to bring someone from the Subspace Army, specifically the "original generation" characters like Duon and Galleom, and chose the latter.

while i do kinda like the fact that they brought back Galleom, i would have brought back Tabuu as the Subspace Boss representative instead.

Hell i wish we got Master Core and its many forms back into Ultimate, as i enjoyed fighting (and cheesing) it in Smash 4.

 

[Momotsuki]

Master Core is the best boss in the Smash series, no question about it. What an incredible fight, especially on the Wii U version at the highest intensities, Master Fortress and all. It's a shame Smash For's single player offerings are otherwise very, very weak. One really good boss fight does not a good single player make!

 

[Polan]

This leak going around that Hayabusa, Doom Slayer, and Rayman are the final three characters is not the most unbelievable, and it's actually a damned fine selection, but I cannot help missing Crash, as he is my most wanted.
So I'm torn as to whether or not I want this leak to be true.
If it is, then I definitely want a third Fighter's Pass with Crash, but I'm not holding my breath.

u can't just say this and not post the leak

 

[N3ON]

I don't have much of a horse in this race as I don't care about Shadow nor do I think he's incredibly likely, but I do care about good speculation, so I'll chip in here,

When it comes to speculating, theorycrafting, or any sort of argumentation you always need points and evidence for your stance to stand on if you want to be taken seriously. This means citing proper primary and secondary sources and interpreting them in a way that benefits your argument but also isn't too far of a reach. You were on the right track by bringing up the Sakurai interview, but you reached too far when interpreting it, and had your point immediately undermined. In the future, providing more sources to support your argument would be advised.

Second, the strength of these points will vary depending on how absolute your claim is. The claim "Shadow could possibly be one of the last 3 DLC fighters" doesn't need to prove itself nearly as much as the claim "Shadow will definitely be one of the last 3 DLC fighters." This is why my long-form speculation pieces never make definitive claims, only introduce possibilities and argue for likelihood. It means I have less to prove and I don't have to fight as hard upstream against the inevitable counterarguments I'll run into. That being said, you should always consider prominent counterarguments and make sure to either address or acknowledge them, lest your argument be completely undermined.

The major problem you seem to be running into is that you'll take one piece of evidence, twist it to confirm that Shadow is absolutely, 100% getting into Smash, and then immediately get your argument toppled by the most basic of counterarguments. You continue to do this, and each time you do people take you less seriously because it's essentially the Boy crying Wolf (or in this case, the fan crying Shadow). I would suggest that in the future you synthesize evidence from multiple points, be realistic with your arguments, and ensure that you address prominent counterarguments–of which you'll face many.

The argument for Shadow to be in Smash is, at this point, incredibly difficult. I don't even know if I could make a convincing piece arguing for his likelihood because by all known precedent he is disconfirmed, and the case for an Assist Trophy Upgrade is much stronger for a character such as Waluigi–who has outrageous fan demand–or Alucard–who we know Sakurai almost included over the Belmonts. I don't envy your position, because you have a lot of work to do to convince people that Shadow is even remotely likely, let alone confirmed.

This is all well said, and to keep going with it, people can also generally tell when someone is working backwards from an outcome they want and trying to rationalize how it could happen, versus taking the pieces and knowledge currently in play and working to see which candidates fit for them.

For one, theories that work backward often involve large expectations devoted to tiny chances. They're not exacting a linear logical path.

So, theories predicated on working in reverse to justify a result instead of impartially analyzing the evidence at hand are not only much likelier to be contrived and involve mental gymnastics, but they're going to be transparent as well.

 

[shinhed-echi]

This leak going around that Hayabusa, Doom Slayer, and Rayman are the final three characters is not the most unbelievable, and it's actually a damned fine selection, but I cannot help missing Crash, as he is my most wanted.
So I'm torn as to whether or not I want this leak to be true.
If it is, then I definitely want a third Fighter's Pass with Crash, but I'm not holding my breath.

Personally I find it a "too good to be true" leak.
Which usually means it's fake.

Grinch Leak 1.5.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Have a festive Tree Day everyone!

Spoiler

 

[SpecterFlower]

Golden Sun? Although I’ll admit without a new entry it’s very unlikely.

At this point i think it's safe to say Golden Sun is mega-dead unless we don't see a mario sports game for a while.

 

[N3ON]

u can't just say this and not post the leak

It's just a 4chan leak he wants to believe because it has Doom Slayer.

It is impressive the person guessed three of the six characters so far, but we had someone guess four of the five characters of FP1, including the specific Hero alts. It's just the result of the amount of guesses/fake leaks that are out there in regards to Smash. There are an innumerable amount, some are bound to line up to some extent.

It's like the "leak" that has forty characters on it, but most of the existing DLC is listed. Because they got lucky, but they also listed like forty characters. When the net is wide enough, you'll get some hits.

 

[Guynamednelson]

At this point i think it's safe to say Golden Sun is mega-dead unless we don't see a mario sports game for a while.

And we won't.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It's like the "leak" that has forty characters on it, but most of the existing DLC is listed. Because they got lucky, but they also listed like forty characters. When the net is wide enough, you'll get some hits.

Literally my strategy when speculating FP2, as if my signature wasn't making it obvious lmao

Funny part is how even with that, I'm failing since the only one I got right so far is Steve

 

[SharkLord]

Idgaf if he's not relevant or a oneshot, I want Rundas.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Listen to this man

 

[Deleted member]

Didn’t that Hayabusa/Rayman/Doomguy leak list Min Min & Ninjara, didn’t get the order right, and was only posted after we knew we were getting an ARMS character? Seems like it was piggybacking off Vergeben & 7 Squares.

 

[Momotsuki]

Personally I think it's much better to own your biases and irrationality than to try so hard to be "rational" and such. Many distinct viewpoints that are all biased and lizard-brained (though to different conclusions) paint a much clearer picture than a similarly large number of viewpoints, all trying their hardest to be neutral, objective, and what-have-you.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Here’s my latest theory:

Pepsi is one of my go to soft drinks, therefore Pepsiman is among the most likely picks.

Your argument is invalid. Don’t even TRY to prove me wrong.

 

[Momotsuki]

Here’s my latest theory:

Pepsi is one of my go to soft drinks, therefore Pepsiman is among the most likely picks.

Your argument is invalid. Don’t even TRY to prove me wrong.

Y'know, I quit all soft drinks about a year ago now. If Pepsiman somehow got in, I'm telling you, I'd relapse.
Give me two days, I'm suddenly the guy in the cutscenes.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally I think it's much better to own your biases and irrationality than to try so hard to be "rational" and such. Many distinct viewpoints that are all biased and lizard-brained paint a much clearer picture than a similarly large number of viewpoints, all trying their hardest to be neutral, objective, and what-have-you.

Yeah I recognize that I’m biased towards characters I want but I try to tone it down. Generally speaking though I regard the opinions of people who have no attachment to a given character more seriously than supporters or detractors. And in this essay I will explain why Lyn is FP10

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Didn’t that Hayabusa/Rayman/Doomguy leak list Min Min & Ninjara, didn’t get the order right, and was only posted after we knew we were getting an ARMS character? Seems like it was piggybacking off Vergeben & 7 Squares.

The one that said Min Min was fighter 7 in September?

 

[Deleted member]

The one that said Min Min was fighter 7 in September?

Unless I have the big dumb or someone doctored the image I was referring to this leak from May 2020

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

This is all well said, and to keep going with it, people can also generally tell when someone is working backwards from an outcome they want and trying to rationalize how it could happen, versus taking the pieces and knowledge currently in play and working to see which candidates fit for them.

For one, theories that work backward often involve large expectations devoted to tiny chances. They're not exacting a linear logical path.

So, theories predicated on working in reverse to justify a result instead of impartially analyzing the evidence at hand are not only much likelier to be contrived and involve mental gymnastics, but they're going to be transparent as well.

Well said. I thought about saying something to that effect, but I think there are some merits to working backwards to support a conclusion. After all, that's how I write my pieces. I think about a character I want to argue for, and then I work backwards to find evidence to support their possible inclusion. I think how absolute a claim is means more than the method used in this case.

Personally I think it's much better to own your biases and irrationality than to try so hard to be "rational" and such. Many distinct viewpoints that are all biased and lizard-brained (though to different conclusions) paint a much clearer picture than a similarly large number of viewpoints, all trying their hardest to be neutral, objective, and what-have-you.

I don't see why there's not a middle ground here. It's possible to present a compelling argument while still acknowledging bias. After all, we argue to support our own biases and opinions; you can't have one without the other. I don't think anyone here is arguing that people should become monks and nuns and detach themselves from worldly feelings.

The problem is when people let their biases cloud logic and you end up with inane theories that instantly get shot down. It's demoralizing from the standpoint of the person suggesting said theories, which is why I gave some tips for how to better argue a point.

I definitely think you're misconstruing the points being made here, as nowhere did myself or others suggest giving up bias entirely.

 

[Speed Weed]

what even first (realistic) 1st party's are left? Ring fit and astral chain are way too new to be in talks unless FP2 was decided literally moments before it was announced, everything else is dead; maybe Box-boy could join? the only 2 New 1st party ips I see being put into smash as characters Are Rhythm Heaven and Style Savvy.

Still kinda bankin' on Isaac as a one-in-a-million shot-in-the-dark risky bet that still makes a large enough amount of sense IMO.

He's by no means a guarantee or even properly likely, but I do think he's more possible than most people give him credit for, and like I said if nothing else it's a fun risky bet to take while being a pick that still makes some sense without just being because "That tricky ol' Sakurai's just gonna throw yet another curveball at us 'cause he totally pays close attention to what a group of 30 or so people say on a message board!"

 

[Commander_Alph]

I have a question. regarding FP1 and it's character, which character has been "rumored" heavily throughout the life cycle of the Fighter Pass 1? Preferably when the DLC was announced which is before TGA where Joker is revealed.

Not just some one-shots like Katalina and Reimu, the character that is always been pushed forward DLC after DLC in the pass.

 

[SharkLord]

I have a question. regarding FP1 and it's character, which character has been "rumored" throughout the life cycle of the Fighter Pass 1?

I believe Doomguy and Ryu Hayabusa got a lot of rumors back then. I think Crash might've started picking up steam around then too, but I'm not sure.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Isaac has an AT, 2 spirits, and a costume. I know each of these individually wouldn't negate his chances, but... Together it seems like He has literally everything against him.
Unless Nintendo suddenly REALLY cared for Golden Sun, and replaced his AT with someone else, I can't see him being in.

I can see them adding Matthew, or to a lesser extent Felix.

But i still can't believe we've been teased since Brawl. Was his AT absent from Smash 4?

View attachment 297078Unless I have the big dumb or someone doctored the image I was referring to this leak from May 2020

If this is true, I'm going to feel bad for not buying the complete pass.

 

[StrawHatX]

Still kinda bankin' on Isaac as a one-in-a-million shot-in-the-dark risky bet that still makes a large enough amount of sense IMO.

He's by no means a guarantee or even properly likely, but I do think he's more possible than most people give him credit for, and like I said if nothing else it's a fun risky bet to take while being a pick that still makes some sense without just being because "That tricky ol' Sakurai's just gonna throw yet another curveball at us 'cause he totally pays close attention to what a group of 30 or so people say on a message board!"

I’d love for it to happen, but like I said it’s highly unlikely if there isn’t a new Golden Sun title or remake around the corner.

Golden Sun got quite a bit of love with the upgraded AT, a lot of spirits, and the Mii costume. But it’s very probable that was the best Sakurai could do for the series.

I remember hearing something about Nintendo being very surprised at peoples’ disappointment at Isaac’s AT reveal de-confirming him. At that point the first Pass was set in stone, but I mean I guess it’s not entirely impossible that he could have slipped in to Pass 2. Would have been in time if of course that thing with Nintendo is even real.

And in all reality if we get another 1st party rep it’ll likely be from Zelda or Pokémon. Maybe even Xenoblade (I’m still rooting for Rex).

 

[Will]

Eggman can just use the Egg Walker from Sonic Adventure 2

Man, can't believe Nintendo is gonna recognize that Sonic Adventure exists before SEGA ever does. Which is exactly what Nintendo (and Sakurai) would do.

Also, let's be real, Sephiroth being included is the only reason Eggman is being hyped up rn.

 

[Hinata]

I have recently figured out how to mod Smash to add entirely new songs instead of replacing old ones.

And the power has absolutely gone to my head.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I have a question. regarding FP1 and it's character, which character has been "rumored" heavily throughout the life cycle of the Fighter Pass 1? Preferably when the DLC was announced which is before TGA where Joker is revealed.

Not just some one-shots like Katalina and Reimu, the character that is always been pushed forward DLC after DLC in the pass.

Doomguy and Ryu Hayabusa were leak staples for a good long while, and easily come to mind in terms of FP1 leaks.

Master Chief was heard by a solid amount of people alongside Master Chief Collection on Switch, but the latter never panned out. Crash has been heard a fair bit recently as well I think.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

View attachment 297079

I have recently figured out how to mod Smash to add entirely new songs instead of replacing old ones.

View attachment 297080

And the power has absolutely gone to my head.

Awwwwwwww yeaaaaaahhhhhh let’s go

I have SO MANY SONGS I want to add

 

[Hinata]

Awwwwwwww yeaaaaaahhhhhh let’s go

I have SO MANY SONGS I want to add

I've added a ton of songs from a bunch of various media. Highlights include boss themes from Dead Rising 2, Yakuza, and Metal Gear Rising, RWBY songs, deltarune songs, and even some anime songs like Before My Body Is Dry from Kill la Kill.

Currently, I'm sitting at 249 songs added.

 

[CureParfait]

Merry Christmas!

Here's to all the terrible ice puns from Batman & Robin!

Speaking of which, what's a good sole ice user we could have besides ?

Londrekia- Under Night in Birth
Jin Kisaragi- Blazblue
Yumi- Senran Kagura

 

[SharkLord]

I've added a ton of songs from a bunch of various media. Highlights include boss themes from Dead Rising 2, Yakuza, and Metal Gear Rising, RWBY songs, deltarune songs, and even some anime songs like Before My Body Is Dry from Kill la Kill.

Currently, I'm sitting at 249 songs added.

Noice

Anyways now you are going to double that count with every official Touhou song I am not asking-

 

[TCT~Phantom]

This leak going around that Hayabusa, Doom Slayer, and Rayman are the final three characters is not the most unbelievable, and it's actually a damned fine selection, but I cannot help missing Crash, as he is my most wanted.
So I'm torn as to whether or not I want this leak to be true.
If it is, then I definitely want a third Fighter's Pass with Crash, but I'm not holding my breath.

Said "leak" was in a FP wishlist thread essentially. People just are looking into this too much, anon got two characters after the arms choice. Compared to the 5ch leak and the Chun Li leak this one really feels weak.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

View attachment 297078Unless I have the big dumb or someone doctored the image I was referring to this leak from May 2020

Oh, that one? Not the same "leak" then

Because yes, I've literally seen a leak dumb enough to claim Min Min was fighter 7 two months after Min Min's release and it's hilarious. I should find it.

 

[ShrimpScampi]

I have recently figured out how to mod Smash to add entirely new songs instead of replacing old ones.

And the power has absolutely gone to my head.

That's really cool, and tbh if I had that kind of power it would go to my head too. How do stages like Mementos and KOF Arena where the music determines what the stage looks like get affected by this? Do the new tracks all go to some default stage setup or is there a way to specify the setup for a new track (e.g. can you add Heartful Cry to Mementos and make it blue when it plays)?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

what even first (realistic) 1st party's are left? Ring fit and astral chain are way too new to be in talks unless FP2 was decided literally moments before it was announced, everything else is dead; maybe Box-boy could join? the only 2 New 1st party ips I see being put into smash as characters Are Rhythm Heaven and Style Savvy.

There's actually a pretty solid list of 1st parties who I'd consider.

• I don't think you can talk about first party characters without talking about Waluigi. In terms of fan demand very few characters rival him, especially when it comes to the wider Nintendo fanbase.
• Xenoblade is notable in that it's a series that seems to lack representation compared to its' peers. I definitely think Rex is in the running, and I'd consider Elma a dark horse pick, especially if Xenoblade Chronicles X sees a Switch re-release (which is unlikely but possible). I also wouldn't throw out a potential Xenoblade Chronicles 3 protagonist assuming development timelines fall into place correctly.
• Pokemon is always on the table, and you can take your pick of any Gen 8 Pokemon really. I think Cinderace has the most to offer moveset wise, but Rillaboom Baboom is another great option.
• I could also potentially see Dixie Kong getting in given that she's a notable omission from the Donkey Kong series.
• I'm also gonna back Speed Weed and say that Isaac, while a real longshot, could have conditions line up just right for him to be an assist trophy upgrade.
• As you yourself mentioned, there are a lot of "new" 1st party IPs not yet represented via a playable character. These include:
  • Rhythm Heaven (Chrous Kids are the only cut character from the Gematsu leak)
  • Style Savvy (based pick)
  • Famicom Detective Club (Assuming the remake gets localized I definitely think Ayumi Tachibana has a chance)

I'm sure I'm missing one or two, but I do think we'll see another first party to close DLC out a la Corrin. After all, this is Nintendo's game, and I can definitely see them using the last of the DLC for it to promote one of their games/franchises (or in the case of Waluigi, shut the fans up fulfill a significant fan demand).

 

[SharkLord]

Oh, that one? Not the same "leak" then

Because yes, I've literally seen a leak dumb enough to claim Min Min was fighter 7 two months after Min Min's release and it's hilarious. I should find it.

This gives off the same bruh energy of an asdf movie guy somehow failing at Standing Up School

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

This gives off the same bruh energy of an asdf movie guy somehow failing at Standing Up School

I FOUND IT

/v/ - Video Games » Thread #525450140

arch.b4k.co

And yet, despite how hilariously fake it is, it still got Steve, Sephiroth and even a Geno Mii outfit... but it's still very obviously fake because the order is wrong and again, Min Min being fighter 7 in September