Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Faso115]

Do passives have names? I never bother to check the movelist but the one thing that, as i like to call it, the classic fighting game passive has is that besides screwing over the players from doing an input and facing the wrong way, it also makes it less likely for character to be able to juggle you. Helps that Ryu, Ken and Terry are pretty heavy.

Min Min's fighting game is a tad more unique in that regard, it isn't a traditional fighting game like the aforementioned 3 but she is part of the genre. I suppose, since she has no inputs, that it wasnt necessary to have her share that passive.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What up ****ers I made a Zagreus moveset after the shortlived discussion on how to implement Boons

ZAGREUS

GIMMICKS:

Zagreus' weapons are linked to specific attacks, regular normals are sword based, aerials are fists, Smash attacks are spear based.

Bloodstone and God Gauge. Bloodstone shows you when Cast is available, as the move has a cooldown effect.

God Gauge lets you know when Boons are available, this slowly builds up overtime but builds up faster when hit and even faster when dealing damage


NORMALS

Spoiler

Jab: Zag swings Stygius 3 times, once per button press like the typical attack.
Up tilt: Zagreus swings Stygius above him in a wide arc.
F tilt: Zagreus performs a clean horizontal cut
Down tilt: Zag crouches and stabs at a low angle.
Dash attack: Zagreus jumps before crashing Stygius to the ground.
Up Smash: Zagreus stabs with Varatha directly in front of him.
F Smash: Zagreus stabs directly in front of him, this can be angled.
Down Smash: Zag swings Varatha in a circle, hitting both sides of him at once.

AERIALS

Spoiler

Nair: Wielding Malphon, Zag punches in front of him similar to the other character who's Nair has them punch
Fair: Zag does two swift punches while reaching forwards
Up air: Punches in an arc above him before following through with a second punch
Bair: Zag performs a uppercut behind him, slow, but strong and has the most range of his aerials.
Dair: Zagreus lifts both hands before striking directy beneath him. This can spike when sweetspotted

THROWS

Spoiler

Pummel: Zagreus knees the enemy
F Throw: Zagreus bashes the opponent with a shoulder barge
Up Throw: Using Stygius, Zagreus swings upwards, dragging his foe with him.
Back Throw: After fully picking up the opponent, Zagreus slams the foe into the ground behind him
Down Throw: Zagreus forces the foe on their knees before slamming them into the ground

SPECIALS
B: Cast, Zagreus will stand for a second before launching his Bloodstone. This move has a cooldown similar to the original game, even if it misses, so make it lands. Beyond being a reasonably strong projectile, opponents hit by Cast will take extra damage for a few seconds until the Bloodstone gets dislodged. Cast has other effects when a certain condition is fullfilled, but we'll get to that.

Side B: Shield Toss, Zagreus tosses Aegis, which functions identically to the Link trio's Boomerangs, meaning it can be angled and bounce off surfaces. This cannot be used again until Aegis either returns to Zag or disappears.

Up B: Bull Rush. Zagreus charges up, allowing the player to point in a full 360 degree angle, before charging in that held direction. It's hard to intercept as the hitbox is directly in front of Zagreus and goes surprisingly far, but this move becomes unavailable when Shield Toss is used until Aegis returns.

Down B: Boon. Hoo boy this is a doozy. When Zag's God Gauge is full, he can obtain a Boon, similar to MvC Pheonix Wright, this is RNG determined which streamlines it significantly and also remains accurate to the roguelike nature of the game. He can only summon a Boon when the God Gauge is full and it'll last until it's emptied, in which the Boon gets discarded. A symbol will appear when Zagreus holds the Boon above him before activating and said symbol will appear on his UI, said symbol corresponding to the God he summoned.
BOONS

Spoiler

Aphrodite: Attacks debuff those who are hit for while, Cast becomes a shortranged blast.

Ares: Attacks inflict Doom, which works like Sephiroth's Shadow Flare, so foes who get hit by Zag end up taking extra damage after a set time, this effect more damage the more you hit someone, but it'll also reset the timer before Doom goes off. Cast throws a slow Blade Rift that deals damage quickly but no knockback

Artemis: Opponents become 'marked', so Zagreus deals more damage. Cast becomes a homing shot.

Athena: Zagreus gets a Franklin badge and gains a slight defence boost, Cast throws out a projectile that reflects anything coming it's way while dealing some damage on it's own.

Chaos: After a alightly longer summon animation, Chaos randomly gives Zagreus a bad effect, ranging from poisoning him, lowering his own stats, falling asleep/getting his shield broken, etc. If he survives by the time the effect wears off, he gets a random good effect, including healing, stat boosts, an extra Bloodstone, etc. The God Gauge gets refilled when certain effects happen to clarify how long the buffs happen.

Demeter: Attacks can freeze, Cast becomes a shockwave that freezes on impact.

Dionysis: Attacks deal DoT, cast becomes a bomb that leaves a big poison cloud.

Hermes: Increased speed, Cast has less cooldown.

Poseidon: Attacks do more knockback, Cast becomes a powerful waterbomb that explodes on impact.

Zeus: Attacks do more hitstun, Cast becomes a piercing projectile.

FINAL SMASH

Hades charges through, capturing those unlucky enough to be hit in a cinematic where Zagreus and Hades duke it out with the trapped foes getting caught in the crossfire before Zag goes through them to strike the final blow to Hades.

Buy Hades, you won't regret it

 

[M@R!3]

Lloyd, I think. He has two swords, something that's only really been tried once, while Yuri only has one. Granted, Yuri has some martial arts and acrobatics, but Lloyd I think has more room for uniqueness. Yuri can also use an axe, but it doesn't have much gameplay changes and he's as much of an axe fighter as Ike. At best he'd probably just trade out his sword for an axe in an alt.

The only way I can think of to make Yuri stand out more from Lloyd is to give him Fatal Strikes. They share most of the other mechanics people would expect from a Tales character, and like others have pointed out Lloyd has two swords.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly, I think Lloyd's two swords are just window dressing. It's the fact that he and Yuri would be combo based swordsmen that would make them unique.

The other thing I'd like to ask is what mechanics would other fighting game characters bring?

I guess I'll start with an idea for a Rivals of Aether character: I doubt they'd remove their ability to grab ledges. They might also be able to give them the parry mechanic as a Shield Special. It could give you extra reward on your "Perfect Shield", but give you end lag if you miss. Essentially, it's Witch Time, without taking up your Down Special.

 

[7NATOR]

So in terms of translating fighting game mechanics, it seems that the devs have taken slightly different approaches:

• Ryu, Ken, and Terry face their opponent in 1v1s, but Min Min does not even though that is a mechanic in ARMS as well.
• Ryu, Ken, and Terry can cancel certain normal moves into Special Moves, though the shotos have more cancelable attacks than Terry does.
• Terry has a dodge attack which seems to be taken from one of the King of Fighters games.
• Terry has Super Special Moves, allowing him to use his supers in normal gameplay. I wonder if this is because Fatal Fury or King of Fighters has more emphasis on supers than Street Fighter does.
• Min Min has a lot of buttons that do the same thing, giving her versatile punch attacks in order to emulate ARMS.

ARMS is the odd one out, so obviously Min Min is going to be handled differently, but I wonder if Terry's Super Special Moves are a result of trying to get him to stand out or if they are a nod to the series he comes from. The other thing I'd like to ask is what mechanics would other fighting game characters bring? I'm including all types of fighting games, so arena fighters, platform fighters, traditional fighters, etc. are all eligible for this discussion.


Chun-Ali Fabulous she Ali Ababwa!

I'm sorry, I had to.

-For Anime Fighters, like Guilty Gear and Blazblue, I Imagine they'll give the character an Air Dash for one thing, since Air Mobility is a big thing in these types of games.

More Specifically with Guilty Gear, they'll also add in the Burst System, which is a versatile system that at least allows you to Cancel anything you are doing to do something else. You could be doing attack, use burst to Cancel the whole animation, and do Any attack quickly. You can even do this on Block, and you can use Burst to get out of combos, or in Smash's case, escape Hitstun

-For Mortal Kombat, I Imagine Fatalities or Brutalities would be a thing, a Move you can use to finish off an Opponent, Though they require precise Button Inputs, especially the brutality which I imagine would be based of Classic MK as a Super Combo that finishes off the opponent. (obviously they wouldn't be very gory in Smash). Besides that, Mortal Kombat also uses Strings, in which you press combination of Moves together to string in a auto combo

The thing is that Mortal Kombat changes it's mechanics more heavily than other Fighting games, but the above is the ones that have stuck around. Other Mechanics from Mortal Kombat include Run Cancels, Combo breakers (or the more controversial cousin, Breakaway from MK11), Krushing Blows, Friendships, Amplify, X-Rays/Fatal Blows, etc.

-For another Street Fighter Character, like Chun-Li, I Imagine she could bring V-Trigger from Street Fighter V. She could also bring the ISMS that were in Alpha 3, which you chose on the Select screen and they give you different properties depending on which one you choose. Example is that one gives you Custom Combos. You could also give her the Alpha counter as well

Probably the more staple things is perhaps Giving her EX Moves, and allowing Supers to be used without the Need for a Final Smash (And perhaps Update Ryu and Ken with these mechanics as well)

I'm not gonna get into the 3D Games since that's a very different Ball game, especially Tekken. That's also why I Imagine Heihachi has not gone in it, since Implementing 3D Gameplay Aspects in the Current Smash Formula is very difficult, well at least Tekken's with the Limb system and stuff like that.

And I do think King of Fighters does have more emphasis on Supers than Street Fighter does. King of Fighters games usually have more bars of meters and you'll see Supers more often, including Super Cancels and everything. I do think though that the Street Fighter Characters should get their Supers in Regular gameplay, or at least EX Moves

 

[Louie G.]

re: Bandana Dee

Kirby is my favorite video game series, and I'd be really happy to see Bandana Dee. Not because he's super exciting really, but because it's always nice to see Kirby get some love. That being said, I'd be that much more excited to get... pretty much every other Dream Friend instead.

Bandana Dee is, for all intents and purposes, the Toad of Kirby. He is in just about every game and is the clear "fourth wheel" after the trio we already have in Smash. But there are just a bunch of other Kirby characters who are flashier and more interesting than he is, just not as important. So when rallying for an additional Kirby character I can understand going for the safest bet, the one who's always showcased as the next most significant character over various one-shot / minor characters with a fraction of Dee's appearances under their belt.

But man, they're just so cool. Marx is one of my favorite character designs ever and the amount of absolutely insane abilities he could bring to the table makes my mind rush. Magolor is somewhat of a minor recurring character after his initial appearance in RTDL, the Kirby team seems to like him a lot. He's a fun character too and his magic attacks would make for a good time. Then you have Daroach, Susie, Adeleine, even Gooey... I love all these guys so much and would be unbelievably hyped if they showed up.

So what it boils down to is, I suppose, thinking realistically and pushing for the one that people believe has the best chance. Which is unfortunate for these other characters just bursting at the seams with potential, but yknow my priorities may be different than theirs and that's okay. Dee is a-okay.

I'm honestly perfectly satisfied with Kirby / Dedede / Meta Knight anyway. I can't think of a more perfect and fulfilling lineup for any series in Smash, but I of course would never turn down more content from my favorite video game series of all time.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Looks it up

Nope apparently not.

Not that it matters anyways.

Me and the PlayStation bois!

So whose everyone's most wanted Capcom rep?

I ask given the recent leak of Chun-Li.

For me it'd be Amaterasu/Phoenix Wright (Can't choose).

My most wanted Capcom rep is Zero from Mega Man X. But I think he won't get in until characters like Chun-Li, M. Bison, and Akuma get in first since Street Fighter has the most iconic Capcom cast. I really want Zero, but I think he's in the back of the line right now in terms of who Sakurai and Capcom wants for Smash.

 

[Nemuresu]

As far as the Tales character discussion goes, I'm leaning more towards Yuri than Lloyd.
Vesperia has become more popular as the years went on, to the point where the game has beaten most entries in popularity as time went on. Just look at this:

Tales of fans vote on most-played entries, most memorable theme songs, and best battle systems

The Tales of series is celebrating its 25th anniversary, and Bandai Namco recently had fans vote on a few categories. They were able to share their most-played titles in the franchise, favorite theme songs, and best battle systems. The results of these rankings were shared during a...

nintendoeverything.com

15 most-played Tales of games

1. Tales of the Abyss
2. Tales of Vesperia
3. Tales of Symphonia
4. Tales of Xillia
5. Tales of Graces/Tales of Graces f

Top 10 battle systems

1. Tales of Graces/Tales of Graces f
2. Tales of Vesperia
3. Tales of the Abyss
4. Tales of Berseria
5. Tales of Xillia 2

Vesperia has come over Symphonia in the most played games and the best battle systems. While it doesn't appear in the second or third most played entries, I think that speaks a lot more in detriment of Symphonia, as most people will try other games (including Vesperia) before it. That's not without mentioning that Yuri is banned from official character polls for always coming first.

Also, I wouldn't put that much faith into that old Sakurai comment, because one: Nintendo is calling the shots, not Sakurai himself; and second: you know who else Sakurai wanted to include in Smash? Geno, and we all know how that story ended.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

As far as the Tales character discussion goes, I'm leaning more towards Yuri than Lloyd.
Vesperia has become more popular as the years went on, to the point where the game has beaten most entries in popularity as time went on. Just look at this:

Tales of fans vote on most-played entries, most memorable theme songs, and best battle systems

The Tales of series is celebrating its 25th anniversary, and Bandai Namco recently had fans vote on a few categories. They were able to share their most-played titles in the franchise, favorite theme songs, and best battle systems. The results of these rankings were shared during a...

nintendoeverything.com

Vesperia has come over Symphonia in the most played games and the best battle systems. While it doesn't appear in the second or third most played entries, I think that speaks a lot more in detriment of Symphonia, as most people will try other games (including Vesperia) before it. That's not without mentioning that Yuri is banned from official character polls for always coming first.

Also, I wouldn't put that much faith into that old Sakurai comment, because one: Nintendo is calling the shots, not Sakurai himself; and second: you know who else Sakurai wanted to include in Smash? Geno, and we all know how that story ended.

I wish they’d port Abyss to Switch/PC/PS4/XBOne already I STILL haven’t beaten the 3DS version

 

[RouffWestie]

Bandanna Waddle Dee was a mediocre character to me when he was introduced, and on top of that, Spear type was never that fun for me, and Staff has already outshone it in my eyes. I'll probably never play as Bandanna Dee any time he makes an appearance in a game. Regardless of my personal feelings, I have to applaud HAL for actually evolving him into a true character, giving him appearances in more and more games. Now he's established as the 4th main Kirby character.
That's rad... but for a Smash inclusion, it probably isn't going to help him much against the thousands of other potential newcomers who are the very faces of their franchises. But among potential Kirby newcomers, at least it makes him 99.99% guaranteed to be the first new character that would be chosen if one was given the chance. The only way I see any other Kirby characters getting into Smash period is if the next Smash director somehow ends up being Kumazaki himself (even still, they'd only come after he adds Bandanna Dee.)

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

What up ****ers I made a Zagreus moveset after the shortlived discussion on how to implement Boons


Buy Hades, you won't regret it

I know literally nothing about this fellow or his game but I won’t lie this moveset is very convincing and sounds sick as hell, great job

 

[SharkLord]

As far as the Tales character discussion goes, I'm leaning more towards Yuri than Lloyd.
Vesperia has become more popular as the years went on, to the point where the game has beaten most entries in popularity as time went on. Just look at this:

Tales of fans vote on most-played entries, most memorable theme songs, and best battle systems

The Tales of series is celebrating its 25th anniversary, and Bandai Namco recently had fans vote on a few categories. They were able to share their most-played titles in the franchise, favorite theme songs, and best battle systems. The results of these rankings were shared during a...

nintendoeverything.com

Vesperia has come over Symphonia in the most played games and the best battle systems. While it doesn't appear in the second or third most played entries, I think that speaks a lot more in detriment of Symphonia, as most people will try other games (including Vesperia) before it. That's not without mentioning that Yuri is banned from official character polls for always coming first.

Also, I wouldn't put that much faith into that old Sakurai comment, because one: Nintendo is calling the shots, not Sakurai himself; and second: you know who else Sakurai wanted to include in Smash? Geno, and we all know how that story ended.

Adding on to this, Symphonia still managed to show up in second-most and third-most played Tales games, while Vesperia didn't show up in either

I think a lot of people hopped on the Vesperia train with the definitive edition and sank more time into it, but Symphonia still got a more evenly-spread level of playtime across the playerbase. There's also the fact that it had developed a reputation as the first of the 3D Tales games, and so more people went to it first as a result. However, the more archaic gameplay may have led them to enjoy the more recent games more.

Interestingly, Tales of the Abyss actually ranks higher than Vesperia AND Symphonia in all three most-played categories. Maybe we should start predicting Luke instead.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

You know Tales of the Abyss topped the most recent fan polls and has the second strongest association with Nintendo due to the exclusive 3DS Port..

Luke bros...

I'm thinking he's in.

 

[DynoStretch]

So whose everyone's most wanted Capcom rep?

For me it'd be Amaterasu/Phoenix Wright (Can't choose).

Funny you say, that; Phoenix is my number one choice, and Amaterasu would be my second choice.

No offense to the fans, but I'm honestly not really all the excited at the idea of Dante, Chun Li or Monster Hunter. Personally I just feel like everything they could do has already been done with other characters to the point where they would just feel redundant.

 

[Will]

hm, dark horse rep?

scorpion, of course

 

[7NATOR]

So I watched the Sourcegaming Trasnlation. While I know the Part about Sephiroth's trailer being thought of before Remake came out was already talked about, there is another interesting aspect of this Translation

Around the 37 Second Mark

Sakurai here says that villains in Smash, especially DLC, is Rare. He does say however that Boss Characters are made to feel like Boss Characters in smash though

So there are some interesting implications, about this though.

-it seems Sakurai might really want to include more villains in the game. The interesting thing is that with Sephiroth, his DLC tourney wasn't based of him being a Villain (or his Sword) but being shrouded in the Dark. I think a Villain Themed Tourney would have been very good choice for Sephiroth, so perhaps the absence of it might mean that potentially we'll have another Villain-ish Character in this pass

-His comment about making Boss Characters feel like Boss Characters might be a good...and Bad thing however, and the perfect example to show off these Implications is Eggman

Eggman is The Most Iconic Villain that's not in the Smash roster. I would even say he's more Iconic than Sephiroth (well at least anywhere that isn't Japan) who just got added into the game. The fact that Sakurai wishes to add more villains, and Sephiroth lacking a Villain Themed tourney make the likelihood he was chosen as a Fighter more likely, right?

However I think the big problem that was just presented was that Eggman is Typically a Boss Character. However the Problem with that is that His Machinery, if you want that Boss Feel, typically are Huge in Size.

Ridley was deemed Too Big initially to be included as a Playable character, and in order for Ridley to be Playable, Sakurai and the team instead focused on his Carnage filled, villainous nature that he displays in his Fights. if you notice in Classic mode, everytime you Fight Ridley, he's always using the Mega Mushroom

You could perhaps do the same thing with Eggman, but honestly it might be harder to do it with him since I think the Size of Eggman's machine is Much more important to establishing him as a Boss than it is With Ridley. Eggman Takes major Pride in his Creations, which includes all the Weaponry displayed in the Gigantic machinery. The Attacks he uses in his Bosses are Large in Scale, So I think shrinking him down to a Proper Playable size might take away some of the epicness that his Boss Fights have, Much more than with Shrinking down Ridley, who even when Shrunken down, his Attacks and his Mannierisms still have that Aggressive, Brutal Nature to it that you find in his Boss Fights.

And No, I'm not trying to Downplay Eggman to make Shadow look more like a more Viable candidate, but I think this an Objective way of looking at it (No Bias).

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So I watched the Sourcegaming Trasnlation. While I know the Part about Sephiroth's trailer being thought of before Remake came out was already talked about, there is another interesting aspect of this Translation

Around the 37 Second Mark

Sakurai here says that villains in Smash, especially DLC, is Rare. He does say however that Boss Characters are made to feel like Boss Characters in smash though

So there are some interesting implications, about this though.

-it seems Sakurai might really want to include more villains in the game. The interesting thing is that with Sephiroth, his DLC tourney wasn't based of him being a Villain (or his Sword) but being shrouded in the Dark. I think a Villain Themed Tourney would have been very good choice for Sephiroth, so perhaps the absence of it might mean that potentially we'll have another Villain-ish Character in this pass

-His comment about making Boss Characters feel like Boss Characters might be a good...and Bad thing however, and the perfect example to show off these Implications is Eggman

Eggman is The Most Iconic Villain that's not in the Smash roster. I would even say he's more Iconic than Sephiroth (well at least anywhere that isn't Japan) who just got added into the game. The fact that Sakurai wishes to add more villains, and Sephiroth lacking a Villain Themed tourney make the likelihood he was chosen as a Fighter more likely, right?

However I think the big problem that was just presented was that Eggman is Typically a Boss Character. However the Problem with that is that His Machinery, if you want that Boss Feel, typically are Huge in Size.

Ridley was deemed Too Big initially to be included as a Playable character, and in order for Ridley to be Playable, Sakurai and the team instead focused on his Carnage filled, villainous nature that he displays in his Fights. if you notice in Classic mode, everytime you Fight Ridley, he's always using the Mega Mushroom

You could perhaps do the same thing with Eggman, but honestly it might be harder to do it with him since I think the Size of Eggman's machine is Much more important to establishing him as a Boss than it is With Ridley. Eggman Takes major Pride in his Creations, which includes all the Weaponry displayed in the Gigantic machinery. The Attacks he uses in his Bosses are Large in Scale, So I think shrinking him down to a Proper Playable size might take away some of the epicness that his Boss Fights have, Much more than with Shrinking down Ridley, who even when Shrunken down, his Attacks and his Mannierisms still have that Aggressive, Brutal Nature to it that you find in his Boss Fights.

And No, I'm not trying to Downplay Eggman to make Shadow look more like a more Viable candidate, but I think this an Objective way of looking at it (No Bias).

Eggman can just use the Egg Walker from Sonic Adventure 2. It'd be the perfect way to represent him since it's his only playable appearance in a main line Sonic game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Eggman can just use the Egg Walker from Sonic Adventure 2. It'd be the perfect way to represent him since it's his only playable appearance in a main line Sonic game.

Not to mention the Egg Mobile. It's his most iconic vehicle that's appeared in almost every game in the series.

 

[N3ON]

So I watched the Sourcegaming Trasnlation. While I know the Part about Sephiroth's trailer being thought of before Remake came out was already talked about, there is another interesting aspect of this Translation

Around the 37 Second Mark

Sakurai here says that villains in Smash, especially DLC, is Rare. He does say however that Boss Characters are made to feel like Boss Characters in smash though

So there are some interesting implications, about this though.

-it seems Sakurai might really want to include more villains in the game. The interesting thing is that with Sephiroth, his DLC tourney wasn't based of him being a Villain (or his Sword) but being shrouded in the Dark. I think a Villain Themed Tourney would have been very good choice for Sephiroth, so perhaps the absence of it might mean that potentially we'll have another Villain-ish Character in this pass

-His comment about making Boss Characters feel like Boss Characters might be a good...and Bad thing however, and the perfect example to show off these Implications is Eggman

Eggman is The Most Iconic Villain that's not in the Smash roster. I would even say he's more Iconic than Sephiroth (well at least anywhere that isn't Japan) who just got added into the game. The fact that Sakurai wishes to add more villains, and Sephiroth lacking a Villain Themed tourney make the likelihood he was chosen as a Fighter more likely, right?

However I think the big problem that was just presented was that Eggman is Typically a Boss Character. However the Problem with that is that His Machinery, if you want that Boss Feel, typically are Huge in Size.

Ridley was deemed Too Big initially to be included as a Playable character, and in order for Ridley to be Playable, Sakurai and the team instead focused on his Carnage filled, villainous nature that he displays in his Fights. if you notice in Classic mode, everytime you Fight Ridley, he's always using the Mega Mushroom

You could perhaps do the same thing with Eggman, but honestly it might be harder to do it with him since I think the Size of Eggman's machine is Much more important to establishing him as a Boss than it is With Ridley. Eggman Takes major Pride in his Creations, which includes all the Weaponry displayed in the Gigantic machinery. The Attacks he uses in his Bosses are Large in Scale, So I think shrinking him down to a Proper Playable size might take away some of the epicness that his Boss Fights have, Much more than with Shrinking down Ridley, who even when Shrunken down, his Attacks and his Mannierisms still have that Aggressive, Brutal Nature to it that you find in his Boss Fights.

And No, I'm not trying to Downplay Eggman to make Shadow look more like a more Viable candidate, but I think this an Objective way of looking at it (No Bias).

One sentence in and seeing the size of the post and somehow I knew this was going to turn into a theory about Shadow.

You gotta let him go, hun.

Also Eggman has already been in a fighting game in his mech, it can work.

 

[Peepo T. Skeleton]

One sentence in and seeing the size of the post and somehow I knew this was going to turn into a theory about Shadow.

You gotta let him go, hun.

Also Eggman has already been in a fighting game in his mech, it can work.

I've always wondered where the hell his legs go when he gets in one of those machines.

 

[7NATOR]

Eggman can just use the Egg Walker from Sonic Adventure 2. It'd be the perfect way to represent him since it's his only playable appearance in a main line Sonic game.

Not to mention the Egg Mobile. It's his most iconic vehicle that's appeared in almost every game in the series.

The thing with the Egg Walker is that when Eggman was using that, he wasn't a Boss Character in that, instead he was a Rival Character to Tails

If they want to Represent Eggman, the Playable character from SA2, then perhaps that could work, but if they want to Represent Eggman the Boss that's in pretty much every Sonic game (Most of them at least), then the Egg Walker would not show that off at all

The Egg Mobile could perhaps work, but it might be a Bit lame and not show off How Crazy Eggman can get. The Egg Mobile is usually the Appetizer that Eggman Displays before he gets to the Real stuff, The Big Stuff.

What I'm trying to say is that Eggman is not Impossible character, but What I will say is that it would be very hard to Represent Eggman as a Boss Character, due to the usual size of his Machines, and Sakurai in that Interview just said he Wants to Represent Boss Characters as Boss Characters. If he sees Eggman as a Boss Character (Which I'm sure he does) than that presents a Problem. You could make Eggman work, but The Sacrifices that would have to be made would be Huge, bigger than Ridley.

One sentence in and seeing the size of the post and somehow I knew this was going to turn into a theory about Shadow.

You gotta let him go, hun.

Also Eggman has already been in a fighting game in his mech, it can work.

So Why exactly do I have to Let Shadow Go?

He's a viable Option, He has alot of Merit to be in this game. I don't mean to sound Frustrated, but Why do I have to Ride on Eggman, or for Base Game, Ride on Shadow as an Echo Fighter to be taken seriously in this Speculation Sphere

Is Shadow not Viable because of the Assist Trophy. I could understand if you think that might present a Problem if perhaps you think the Smash Dev team sees the Assist as enough Representation.

But seeing the Bomberman Costume, that shows they are reconsidering the Assist role for Characters, especially since Bomberman uses the Assist Model asset to make his Mii Costume.

Plus, If Shadow never had an Assist, but Hypothetically we didn't get FP2, there would just be no Shadow Assist Trophy in the game. Shadow would activily be downgraded to just a Spirit, when he's had assist since Brawl.

I understand that Most people here do not see Shadow as an Option, but he still has alot of Merit

-2nd Most Popular Sonic Character in the fandom
-Very Requested Character in Smash fandom
-Has Assets to re-use in the game, including a AT Model, Sonic's Skeleton, for Easier Development
-Has very interesting unqiue Moveset ideas with Chaos Abilities and Sonic's Unused abilities like the Boost, Light Speed Dash, Black Tornado, along with his Rocket Skates
-Head of Sonic team's (Iizuka) Favorite Character
-Sakurai has a thing for More "On Edge" characters
-Relevant to his Franchise
-SA2B was the game that introduced Sonic to the Nintendo Audience

There are legit reasons to have Shadow as a Character to Speculate. Like I said, it's fine if you guys don't think he will get in, And I will admit he has competetion even within his own Franchise, with Eggman, Tails, and Knuckles, who have their own Merits that rival or perhaps even Surpass Shadow, and that's not getting into other Potential characters outside the Sonic Franchise

But you guys do not have to look at me like someone that's delusional. It does kind of suck sometimes you know. I do acknowledge that some of my theories have been off the wall, but I'm person that just likes to speculate, and I think Shadow could be in this Fighter Pass. That's really it

 

[Icedragonadam]

Even if Sakurai said he wants more villains, the DLC is still mainly decided by Nintendo.

 

[N3ON]

So Why exactly do I have to Let Shadow Go?

He's a viable Option, He has alot of Merit to be in this game. I don't mean to sound Frustrated, but Why do I have to Ride on Eggman, or for Base Game, Ride on Shadow as an Echo Fighter to be taken seriously in this Speculation Sphere

Is Shadow not Viable because of the Assist Trophy. I could understand if you think that might present a Problem if perhaps you think the Smash Dev team sees the Assist as enough Representation.

But seeing the Bomberman Costume, that shows they are reconsidering the Assist role for Characters, especially since Bomberman uses the Assist Model asset to make his Mii Costume.

Plus, If Shadow never had an Assist, but Hypothetically we didn't get FP2, there would just be no Shadow Assist Trophy in the game. Shadow would activily be downgraded to just a Spirit, when he's had assist since Brawl.

I understand that Most people here do not see Shadow as an Option, but he still has alot of Merit

-2nd Most Popular Sonic Character in the fandom
-Very Requested Character in Smash fandom
-Has Assets to re-use in the game, including a AT Model, Sonic's Skeleton, for Easier Development
-Has very interesting unqiue Moveset ideas with Chaos Abilities and Sonic's Unused abilities like the Boost, Light Speed Dash, Black Tornado, along with his Rocket Skates
-Head of Sonic team's (Iizuka) Favorite Character
-Sakurai has a thing for More "On Edge" characters
-Relevant to his Franchise
-SA2B was the game that introduced Sonic to the Nintendo Audience

There are legit reasons to have Shadow as a Character to Speculate. Like I said, it's fine if you guys don't think he will get in, And I will admit he has competetion even within his own Franchise, with Eggman, Tails, and Knuckles, who have their own Merits that rival or perhaps even Surpass Shadow, and that's not getting into other Potential characters outside the Sonic Franchise

But you guys do not have to look at me like someone that's delusional. It does kind of suck sometimes you know. I do acknowledge that some of my theories have been off the wall, but I'm person that just likes to speculate, and I think Shadow could be in this Fighter Pass. That's really it

I'm not saying you have to stop wanting him, but your constant seeing all routes end in his inclusion is feeble reasoning at the best of times, and kinda obsessive at the worst.

I mean people share their theories usually with the intent to get others on board. In that light, I'd try to focus less on the quantity of your Shadow theories and focus more on the quality of your Shadow theories.

 

[Ny0kazer]

Isn't Sakurai the one choosing? I thought that Nintendo just gave him a list of characters to choose from.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Isn't Sakurai really the one choosing? I thought that Nintendo just gave him a list of characters to choose from.

Sakurai is choosing characters from a list Nintendo gave him like you said.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn’t put too much stock into having a darkness tourney instead of one for villains considering ‘s tourney was Heroes vs. Villains.

 

[SpecterFlower]

hey if Nintendo wanted to do a 1st party rep............... What do you all think of a Style Savvy character's chances?

 

[Technomage]

hey if Nintendo wanted to do a 1st party rep............... What do you all think of a Style Savvy character's chances?

IDK much about the series, so how would a fighter from there function?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Isn't Sakurai the one choosing? I thought that Nintendo just gave him a list of characters to choose from.

Nintendo gives him characters, and Sakurai sees if he can make unique fighters out of their choices.

 

[N3ON]

Also if the precedent you base your theories on begins and ends with the most recent character and none who came before them, you know it's not going to be particularly grounded.

 

[cothero]

Quick question: would you guys be content if Shadow were one the three remaining fighters in FP2?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

No offense to the fans, but I'm honestly not really all the excited at the idea of Dante, Chun Li or Monster Hunter. Personally I just feel like everything they could do has already been done with other characters to the point where they would just feel redundant.

No one has Style Switching like Dante has (Shulk isn't Style Switching, that's a buff system). There is no character who cannot change styles at will to do stuff like this.

He would play a lot differently than Bayonetta or any other character, nothing about Dante would feel redundant unless his only gimmick was Devil Trigger.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I mean I think it’s just as plausible that Sephiroth is, right now, an exception in terms of adding villains.

Sephiroth being a villain and being a boss would be made less exciting and interesting (not necessarily to me, but as a concept) if you were then just going to add...more bosses and villains. Like it makes the addition far less unique.

I also think it’s sus to think they’d suddenly go on a tear of adding villains when they’ve never done anything like that before. I don’t think it helps any particular villain in one way or another at this point.

 

[SpecterFlower]

IDK much about the series, so how would a fighter from there function?

I have no idea, but the series either but it seems there will be one eventually, it's sales are around pikmin and rhythm heaven level.

 

[7NATOR]

I'm not saying you have to stop wanting him, but your constant seeing all routes end in his inclusion is feeble reasoning at the best of times, and kinda obsessive at the worst.

I mean people share their theories usually with the intent to get others on board. In that light, I'd try to focus less on the quantity of your Shadow theories and focus more on the quality of your Shadow theories.

To be honest, I'm not sure how to do that

I thought the main reason of Theories were used to try and predict which characters will be coming in the future. That's what I was trying to do with Shadow at least

Thinking about it more, perhaps I Might be the only one that benefits from some of my Theory craft. I remember that I shared the Shadow in Bayonetta 3 Theory and I don't think anyone but me (and perhaps very few others) were on board. and While I do ackwnoeldge some of my theories are an Stretch, My Brain does think that there are merits to the theories, like I do think Platinum is doing something with Sonic in the future, whether it be Sonic Content in Bayonetta 3, perhaps Sonic Adventure 3, or something like that

But like I said, I don't know how to. I Like talking about Shadow coming to Smash, and I can't just keep it inside my Head, but I can see that people still aren't on board with the idea, or at least it being realistic

and to be honest, I don't think Shadow will ever be Speculated again, until Perhaps he gets in the game. He'll be overshadowed by Eggman, Chun-Li, Waluigi, Even other Sega characters like Arle. And Shadow as an unique charcater has never been taken seriously like that since even in Base game Speculation, it was as him as an Echo. Even after Isabelle got in, Shadow as an echo still prevailed. It's alright though

I wouldn’t put too much stock into having a darkness tourney instead of one for villains considering ‘s tourney was Heroes vs. Villains.

I Imagine thought that we have a Tourney which is just Villain themed, where you can only play as Villain Characters, and we haven't gotten that yet.

With that being said, I think Sword Characters or characters with Bladed weapons benefit more from this, since I thought Sephiroth's tourney would be based of his Sword, since it is an Iconic part of him, and his code Name references his Sword as well

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Wouldn’t “darkness-type characters” be like the perfect tournament for Shadow? And now Sepiroth has it.

 

[ahemtoday]

As far as I can tell, no one has Style Switching like Dante has. There is no character who cannot change styles at will to do stuff like this.

He would play a lot differently than Bayonetta IMO.

I'm not convinced we would get style switching, to be honest. Even if we got Dante.

The only characters that switch weapons or styles or anything like that in Ultimate are Pokemon Trainer (who was grandfathered in), Min Min (whose only animation differences between ARMS are the way they behave at the end with no difference on Min Min herself), and Steve (who uses the same animation regardless of whether he's holding a tool or not). I'm not a Devil May Cry expert, but this seems... more complicated than that.

And it's not like it's an integral part of his character. Marvel didn't give it to him.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

hey if Nintendo wanted to do a 1st party rep............... What do you all think of a Style Savvy character's chances?

Depends on if a major revival of the series is in the works and Nintendo wants to promote it.

That being said, Style Savvy was a hallmark of Nintendo's push into the casual market in the DS and 3DS eras, and is a glaring omission on the Switch as of right now. I could definitely see a revival being the works and Nintendo wanting to legitimize the series by putting it in Smash. Is it the most likely thing? No. But it's possible.

Also Savvy Stylist is one of the best first party characters they can add above pretty much every other common pick here don't @ me

 

[Evil Trapezium]

The thing with the Egg Walker is that when Eggman was using that, he wasn't a Boss Character in that, instead he was a Rival Character to Tails

If they want to Represent Eggman, the Playable character from SA2, then perhaps that could work, but if they want to Represent Eggman the Boss that's in pretty much every Sonic game (Most of them at least), then the Egg Walker would not show that off at all

The Egg Mobile could perhaps work, but it might be a Bit lame and not show off How Crazy Eggman can get. The Egg Mobile is usually the Appetizer that Eggman Displays before he gets to the Real stuff, The Big Stuff.

What I'm trying to say is that Eggman is not Impossible character, but What I will say is that it would be very hard to Represent Eggman as a Boss Character, due to the usual size of his Machines, and Sakurai in that Interview just said he Wants to Represent Boss Characters as Boss Characters. If he sees Eggman as a Boss Character (Which I'm sure he does) than that presents a Problem. You could make Eggman work, but The Sacrifices that would have to be made would be Huge, bigger than Ridley.

Sephiroth wasn't a boss character in his regular form either in the original game and the only time he was shown as a boss was with his Bizarro and Safer Sephiroth forms (The last battle doesn't count). Sometimes you gotta start from a characters playable form (Or temporary party form with Sephiroth) until you can start representing their boss like qualities. Eggman can definitely represent his boss like qualities with some powerful attacks and final smash just like Sephiroth. Then again Sakurai's statement kind of contradicts itself when you remember that Bowser, King K. Rool, Ganondorf and Ridley exist in the game and are no better than any other character in the game so his statement really amounts to nothing.

 

[shinhed-echi]

.

Eggman can just use the Egg Walker from Sonic Adventure 2. It'd be the perfect way to represent him since it's his only playable appearance in a main line Sonic game.

This. It's a good size that one thinks is bigger than it really is.
There's also the fighting mechsuit he uses in Fighters. Or the 1st boss from CD.

But IMO SA2 just works the best... If they added arms. (Or heck... Add Big Arms!). Although he has a single extending boxing glove hidden right in the middle.

Sonic needs another go at music as well.
There's just so many amazing tracks that need to be in Smash.

E.G.G.M.A.N
Big Arms
What I'm Made Of
Lava Reef
Toxic Caves
Chemical Plant

Among the biggest misses.


Man I'm so needy for another Sonic character...