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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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SNEKeater

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Lara Croft is without a doubt a big character, the thing is if Nintendo or Sakurai would actually want her as our next Square character. Square Enix would have 0 problems with the idea, I guess. I could totally see Nintendo going for other characters though. 2B is certainly bigger than most people realize. She isn't a niche character that happens to be popular, as I have read a few times on the internet. If we judge Nier Automata by it's sales. 5,5 million copies is more than what Persona 5 has achieved (if I remember correctly), including both P5 vanilla and Royal, for reference.

And considering that Nier was very very niche before Automata, the game was clearly a very big jump in popularity.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Was Joker even the first DLC?
:ultpiranha:

Hey guys, and gals, I already showed some people here via PM, but I wish to show the rest of you all this moveset idea for a Smash Bros. character I made up if that's okay. Wanna see it?
Go ahead. Would probably be refreshing to see someone speculating something other than "who next"
 

Idon

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I would like MH fighter concept as you can choose 3 sets of weapons and has access to those as your smash/special attacks:
1) Light: Sword and Shield, Dual Blades, Long Sword, Light Bowgun
2) Middle: Bow, Charge Blade, Hunting horn, Switch Axe, Insect Glave
3) Heavy: Great Sword, Hammer, Lance, Gunlance, Heavybowgun

Therefore you would get all MH Rise weapons. Depending on the type you choose, MH fighter statistics like speed and weight will change. Yeah I know, it would be a fighter with 3 different movesets but well we are in the endgame.
Sounds like you're just shoving weapons together to represent them rather than to portray the character accurately at that point.
 

CannonStreak

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:ultpiranha:


Go ahead. Would probably be refreshing to see someone speculating something other than "who next"
Okay then! The character that would have this moveset, or characters, are...

The Lost Vikings

Coming from the game of the same name, the trio of Erik, Baleog and Olaf join Smash Bros. Erik is the controllable one, as he is the fastest and jumps. but the three function like a combination of Ice Climbers and Rick, Kine and Coo as they functioned as a playable character form KIrby: Star Allies. Baleog and Olaf will appear for certain attacks and defending before disappearing, and they might be controllable in a way for a short period of time once certain moves are performed, usually done by one of the trio with the others at their back or assisting the one doing the move. Note that the other vikings when they appear can take damage, though it adds little to the percentage bar. Their special moves are...

B: Head Charge: Erik uses his head and helmet to charge towards enemies, knocking them away when they are hit. The longer the button is held down, the longer he charges.

B Side: Arrow Shooting: Baleog can use his sword for normal A button attacks, but for the B Side, he appears shoots arrows from his bow. This is a bit different from Link's arrow move, as the longer the B button is held and the control stick is tilted, the more arrows are shot. He can move when shooting arrows.

B Up: Trio Jump: The three hold on together and make it so that they jump real high, with Olaf's shield preventing frontal attacks, Erik's helmet damaging enemies from above and Baleog using his sword to damage opponents on the other side of Olaf.

B Down: Shield: Olaf appears and pulls out his shield, which prevents damage from projectiles and attacks. He can move while using this shield, unlike with the usual shield feature all players have, and can close in on enemies and then follow up with an attack by the other two.

Final Smash: Viking Barrage: When used, the three vikings all appear and then charge at an opponent. If no one is hit, nothing happens. If anyone is hit, a cutscene happens where the vikings do a series of attacks. First, Erik charges at the opponents with his head, Baleog fires a series of arrows and then slashes opponents, and Olaf charges with his shield. Then the three get together and then they do a massive charge at the opponent, sending them flying and possibly KOing them.

I realize this may be a bit complicated for Smash, but other than that, what do you think?

What do you all think?
 
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MooMew64

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I still kinda doubt a Sinnoh rep. Aside from the fact that Smash doesn't usually promote remakes with fighters, especially for DLC, by the time BDSP releases we'd be on CP11. Generally, promotional picks choose to represent games that have actually been out for a good six months to a year before their DLC. The one exception to both of these patterns was Hero, who was added to Smash before DQ11S was released. Even then, other Heroes from across the series came with them, and the pack still represented more series than just DQ11, even if it was the most obvious. Heck, Erdrick even got to land the Final Smash in the trailer.
So yeah. Don't think we'll get a BDSP rep.
I meant more-so for Spirits.

For the fighter, I'm fully banking on Cinderace if it happens. Partly from bias and partly because of the anime. :nifty:
 
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Speed Weed

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weren't all of her recent games flops?

you don't need good sales to get in to smash but i have to imagine making negative money is pretty big roadblock.

also what's the seven squares list?
I don't think they were, and even if they were, Lara's timeless enough of a character that it probably wouldn't matter that much anyway
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Lara Croft is without a doubt a big character, the thing is if Nintendo or Sakurai would actually want her as our next Square character. Square Enix would have 0 problems with the idea, I guess. I could totally see Nintendo going for other characters though. 2B is certainly bigger than most people realize. She isn't a niche character that happens to be popular, as I have read a few times on the internet. If we judge Nier Automata by it's sales. 5,5 million copies is more than what Persona 5 has achieved (if I remember correctly), including both P5 vanilla and Royal, for reference.

And considering that Nier was very very niche before Automata, the game was clearly a very big jump in popularity.
I’m not arguing that. I think 2B or Lara are like the next two obvious ones and it just comes down to which character Nintendo and Square want. And honestly if I had to guess I’d say 2B would be the one they chose.

I don’t agree with revisionist history to make something look more favorable to one over the other though when there’s not anything to back up, but instead contradict, the point that was being made.
 
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Shroob

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The only thing I'm 100% certain on, is that they will NOT announce a FP3 tomorrow.


If they would announce something like that, it'd be in a regular-ass Direct, where you have hundreds of thousands of eyes on it, not a Smash-specific one(Didn't the newest General Direct peak at over 500k?).


If there ever is a FP3 coming, it'll be announced in a regular, General Direct.
 

PSIGuy

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Speaking of Lara, you know how Sakurai said that Joker wields a gun?
I don't, actually. Pretty sure that was Energetic Narrator Man who said it from the one DLC presentation they had for Smash Ultimate with actual production value.

inb4 "I sure am glad we got Sakurai talking awkwardly instead!"
yeah ha ha... who would want fully voice-acted character explanations for the intro, fitting-game aesthetics for all the text and pop-ups with tons of attention to detail and all in a compact 15 minute video...
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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The only thing I'm 100% certain on, is that they will NOT announce a FP3 tomorrow.


If they would announce something like that, it'd be in a regular-ass Direct, where you have hundreds of thousands of eyes on it, not a Smash-specific one(Didn't the newest General Direct peak at over 500k?).


If there ever is a FP3 coming, it'll be announced in a regular, General Direct.
In June. Mark my words.

Not actually though I’m not that confident in a FP3.
 

Perkilator

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I don't, actually. Pretty sure that was Energetic Narrator Man who said it from the one DLC presentation they had for Smash Ultimate with actual production value.

inb4 "I sure am glad we got Sakurai talking awkwardly instead!"
yeah ha ha... who would want fully voice-acted character explanations for the intro, fitting-game aesthetics for all the text and pop-ups with tons of attention to detail and all in a compact 15 minute video...
Damn. You really have a hate boner for the livestream format, huh?

I love watching Sakurai be genuinely giddy about the stuff he's talking about.
 

PSIGuy

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Damn. You really have a hate boner for the livestream format, huh?
The opposite, I just think people really undervalue the Joker presentation. Seriously, rewatch it. It's both more -and- less. Sakurai rambling on for an hour is "fine", just fine. Not great, not well edited. He'll say some corny line and then it gets quoted ad-nauseum. It gets the job done under budget.
 

SpecterFlower

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The opposite, I just think people really undervalue the Joker presentation. Seriously, rewatch it. It's both more -and- less. Sakurai rambling on for an hour is "fine", just fine. Not great, not well edited. He'll say some corny line and then it gets quoted ad-nauseum. It gets the job done under budget.
I prefer the much more in depth moveset explanation's.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I don't, actually. Pretty sure that was Energetic Narrator Man who said it from the one DLC presentation they had for Smash Ultimate with actual production value.

inb4 "I sure am glad we got Sakurai talking awkwardly instead!"
yeah ha ha... who would want fully voice-acted character explanations for the intro, fitting-game aesthetics for all the text and pop-ups with tons of attention to detail and all in a compact 15 minute video...
I much prefer the creator talking about it because he’s able to give insight off the seat of his pants without the need for it to be necessary or relevant to what we’re watching.

The simple drop of “Marx was supposed to be more scary”, the hilarious “play Banjo-Kazooie... on Xbox”, or him geeking out over the Neo•Geo and SNK is a lot more enjoyable than just “here it is, have fun” but I can see where you’re coming from if you’re just in a rush to see what you’re getting but personally that’s just kinda boring.
 

UltimateCyborgOverlord

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So I apparently inadverdently started an absolute knife fight over Square characters again.... sorry about that


Speaking of Lara, you know how Sakurai said that Joker wields a gun?

Maybe Sakurai, if he adds her, would say "For her neutral special, she wields TWO guns!".
"For Shadow's neutral special, he wields an ASSAULT RIFLE and he PUMPS YOU FULL OF LEAD! BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM!"

Blam Blam.png
"We also included the song "Almost Dead" performed by Rob Zombie's brother.... Rob Zombie's brother did a Sonic the Hedgehog song. We had to adjust the rating because Shadow swears like a Burger King employee. Please understand. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to order a Double Whopper. Every purchase of sweary Shadow the Hedgehog with Gun DLC comes with a voucher for a free Burger King value meal. It's well worth it"
 
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Time to speculate the real stuff:

Is Sakurai going to have a prop/gimmick this time?

So far we've seen an actual Neo Geo, counting in binary, a slinky, and a physical Minecraft pickaxe/sword. Do we get another one, or has the prop energy gone to the wayside?
 

UltimateCyborgOverlord

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Time to speculate the real stuff:

Is Sakurai going to have a prop/gimmick this time?

So far we've seen an actual Neo Geo, counting in binary, a slinky, and a physical Minecraft pickaxe/sword. Do we get another one, or has the prop energy gone to the wayside?

Maybe a Pyra/Mythra figma or whatever? (I'm throwing ideas at the wall like an animal)
 

PSIGuy

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but I can see where you’re coming from if you’re just in a rush to see what you’re getting but personally that’s just kinda boring.
As opposed to wanting to see all the content played through by the creator before you even get the update in your hands? Things like how each move works can be figured out by yourself, that's the joy of a video game - you play it for yourself. The depth in a character's moveset should speak for itself. You don't need every easter egg spoiled, that literally defeats the purpose of an -easter egg-. The dev commentary stuff is great, but a nearly-hour long video of Sakurai just playing Classic Mode as Terry is not the format for it.
 

Commander_Alph

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I mean... Sephiroth's video was age-gated on Youtube. Had to sign in to watch THAT presentation. (not entirely sure why nothing seemed too out of the ordinary)
Well..

I know that Sakurai wouldn't pose the figure and give us a butt shot but she's pretty much spreading "it" if you know what I mean. Imagine him turning the figure upsidedown that would be a wake up call lol.
 
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UltimateCyborgOverlord

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Well..

I know that Sakurai wouldn't pose the figure and give us a butt shot but she's pretty much spreading "it" if you know what I mean.

Yeah she's got a very Ikkitousen thing goin on in the leg region, very Dragon Destiny, Great Guardians.

Still, I expect Sakurai to at least bring up the usage of Massive Melee Mythra, even in passing like "Mythra appears in her Massive Melee Mythra design" or something to that effect. Sakurai is very detail oriented like that. One of Steve's moves he even noted was from like... a very specific version of Minecraft (I don't play Minecraft so I don't remember which one that was)
 

Þe 1 → Way

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Everything blurs together and I can't make sense of anything anymore. Was Joker even the first DLC? How do I know Min Min wasn't base game? It was so long ago...
View attachment 305762
This is why I stopped recommending people listen to Everywhere at the End of Time.
You know its actually kind of funny with...with.....uhhh....what was I talking about again?
 

Perkilator

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Meanwhile:
Sakurai is once again making it clear that character choices aren't up to him, only to make sure they work as Smash characters.
 

Pillow

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Real slow day at work, so just gonna share a couple of movesets I just made here since other people were doing it. These characters are totally gonna be FP 10 & 11 anyway.

Doomslayer
So I thought I'd try my hand at making a Doomslayer moveset.
General Playstyle
Heavy, resource based, zoner with decent speed. He lacks powerful out of shield options and has a relatively weak disadvantage to compensate for his extremely powerful neutral game.

Stats:
Weight - 112
Air Speed - 1,115
Fall Speed - 1700
Fast Fall - 2800
Dash - 1760
Run Speed - 1700

Gimmick:
The Slayer's guns use ammo as a finite resource. All guns share the same ammo gauge, which is depicted as 6 bullets. Each gun depletes ammo at a different rate. Ammo is not replaced automatically but instead is gained through landing melee attacks.

Specials:
Up + B: Blood Punch
The Slayer jumps up straight vertically before then quickly landing with a punch. It's pretty similar to Incineroar's up B but is faster and the downward slam is straight downward rather than a diagonal arc.

Down + B: Arsenal
The Slayer's Down B functions similar to Shulk's Monado Arts, cycling through 5 different weapons by repeatedly tapping B or by opening up a menu by holding B. Unlike Shulk's Monado Arts, switching weapons does not give i-frames, and there is no time limit or internal cooldown for switching or using different weapons. The weapons are as follows
  • Shotgun (close/mid range)
  • Heavy Rifle (long range poking/zoning)
  • Rocket Launcher (long range zoning/killing)
  • Flamethrower (close range / trapping)
  • BFG (killing)

At the beginning of each match, the Slayer has the Shotgun equipped as default

B / Side + B: Fire / Alt Fire
The Slayer gets a different set of B/Side B moves depending on the weapon equipped.

Pistol: The Slayer only defaults to this if he does not have the ammo to use his current equipped weapont's a single pistol shot similar to Joker's Gun, but unlike Joker he cannot move while using it. The Side B and B function exactly the same for this weapon.

Shotgun: Consumes 1 Ammo
Shotgun Blast :
The Slayer shoots a cone projectile in the direction he's facing. The move comes out very fast and has decent damage but low knockback. If used in the air the Slayer will be pushed in the opposite direction he's facing, which can be used for recovery or for aerial mixups.

Explosive Shot [Side B]:
The Slayer shoots a grenade from his gun which travels in a short arc, exploding upon contact or after a short time. This move functions pretty much exactly like the Mii Gunner's grenade launcher move.

Heavy Rifle: Consumes 1 Ammo
Burst Shot :
The Slayer fire a burst of 3 bullets from his rifle (similar to Arsene's gun) which deals medium damage but has low hitstun. The Slayer can hold B to continuously fire bursts and can move freely while using this move.

Scoped Shot [Side B]:
The Slayer aims down his rifle for a highly damaging precision shot. When using this move the Slayer will stand still and an aiming reticle will pop up near him. It functions somewhat similarly to Snake's Nikita except the reticle does not automatically activate when it contacts an opponent, and the Slayer instead must manually release the B button. A burst of 3 gunshots appears where the reticle was which deals heavy damage and knockback and does decent damage to shields. The move can be cancelled by pressing the shield button.

Rocket Launcher: Consumes 2 Ammo
Rockets :
The Slayer shots a rocket which travels straight forward. It functions similarly to a Samus heavy rockets but travels slower and has more damage/knockback.

Remote Rocket [Side B]:
The Slayer fires a rocket which travels straight forward at a fast speed and explodes when the B button is released again. Functions similarly to the Mii Gunner's stealth bomber.

Flamethrower: Consumes 1 Ammo
Flamespit :
The Slayer shoots a jet of flames from his weapons which gradually grows weaker as time goes on. This functions similarly to Bowser or Charizard B moves, and consumes ammo at a rate of 1 per second (the ammo consumption and flame weakening function separately)

Hellfire Blast [Side B]:
Hold B to charge (cannot store charge or move). The Slayer shoots a fireball that travels forward horizontally and does decent damage. Functions similarly to Corrin's B move but without the option of a follow up attack and does not stun.

BFG: Consumes 6 Ammo
Doom [B/Side B]:
Both inputs do the same thing. A crescent blue beam travels from the gun horizontally at extremely fast speeds. It functions similarly to a fully charged Robin Thoron except the projectile is not a beam.

Tilts
All of the Slayer's tilts except for his jab replenishes [1 Ammo]. His jab does not replenish ammo.

Jab: Punch, punch, uppercut. Pretty straightforward jab among the Smash cast.

Side Tilt: The Slayer slashes forward with the Crucible, his demonic sword. Decent range and comes out relatively quick, but it lacks kill power

Up Tilt: The Slayer slashes upward in an arc with his Crucible.

Down Tilt: The Slayer does a low kick somewhat similar to Ryu's

Dash Attack: The Slayer does a sliding kick. Pressing [A] again anytime before the move's animation is completed will have the Slayer fire with his Shotgun upwards, consuming [1 Ammo].

Smash Attacks
Forward Smash: Charging this move shows the Slayer revving his chainsaw, which has a hitbox similar to Mewtwo's shadowball while charging (this applies to all of the Slayer's chainsaw attacks). The chainsaw is a multihit move that deals lots of damage with medium knockback and replenishes [3 Ammo]

Up Smash: A thrusting uppercut with his chainsaw blade. Multihit move that deals lots of damage and launches the opponents directly vertical. Replenishes [3 Ammo]

Down Smash: The Slayer thrusts his chainsaw blade at a downward arc in one direction (similar to Sephiroth's down Smash but with far less range). This move is useful for 2 framing because charging the smash attack has its own hitbox similar to Ness's down Smash.

Aerials
All aerials replenish 1 ammo.

Nair: The Slayer does a 360 swing with the Crucible (speed is similar to Min Min dragon Nair)
Bair: The Slayer slams his elbow forward
Fair: The Slayer swings both arms downwards similar to DK (this move spikes)
Dair: The Slayer fires his shotgun straight downward propelling up upward slately (consumes 1 ammo) if he has no ammo then he fires a pistol shot downwards which doesn't propel him any distance.

Grab/Throws
All of the Slayer's throws replenish [2 Ammo]
Pummel: The Slayer punches his opponent in the head with a straight punch
Up Throw: The slayer uppercuts the opponent launching them upwards
Side Throw: The Slayer stabs his opponent with the crucible then throws them forward
Back Throw: The Slayer stabs his opponent with the crucible then throws them backwards
Down Throw: The Slayer tosses his opponent to the ground and uses his chainsaw on them, which ends with them being propelled in a small arc horizontally

Haruka Amami
General Playstyle
High risk fast floaty rushdown character with an install. Her hitboxes on her moves also tend to be kind of janky similar to Wii Fit's.

Gimmick
Haruka has 2 pretty simple gimmicks. Like a few other characters, she has an Idol meter that fills up by landing attacks. Unlike Cloud's Limit or Arsene, this meter only fills by landing attacks and does not increase passively or by taking damage. When the meter fills up she'll transform and replace her regular school uniform with an idol uniform, her normal attacks gain a 50% damage increase and deal further knockback, and the properties of her special moves will change. Her idol form lasts about as long as Arsene, however unlike Arsene, her meter can be filled while the install is still happening.

The second, is exactly like Incineroar's. After landing an attack successfully, Haruka will strike a pose (unlike Incineroar's hers will be cutesy idol poses rather than taunts). Like Incineroar, she can cancel the animations early. However, if she chooses to let the full animation complete then her Idol meter will fill up further.

Stats
Weight: 78
Air Speed: 1.208
Fast Fall: 2.88
Gravity: 0.07
Dash Speed: 2.09
Run Speed: 2.09

Specials
B: "Positive!"
Haruka strikes a cheerful pose and makes a peace sign with her hand. This move does very minor damage and hitstun if an enemy is right on top of her, but is mostly a move useful for landing or extending combos (think of it like a mix between Zelda B and Olimar down B). It comes out extremely fast (frame 1) and grants super armor while being used.

When in idol form, this move grants invincibility frames rather than super armor and this move can also reflect projectiles (the damage and knockback remain the same)

Up B: "Go My Way"
A spinning star appears beneath Haruka's feet which then propels Haruka in whatever direction you angle the move towards. This move doesn't have a hitbox so it can't deal any damage, but Haruka can act freely after using it similar to Sonic's spring jump. This move can be charged to increase the distance traveled.

When in idol form, she'll leave behind a trail of stars during the initial jump which deal minor damage. She also will gain a few frames of invincibility at the start of the move.

Side B: "I Want"
Haruka strikes a pose and makes a heart symbol with both hands. This move functions very similarly to Palutena's explosive flame, as the move will explode in a set distance in front of her. Unlike explosive flame, the move doesn't trap at all but instead deals and instant amount of damage and knockback (and uses Peach's heart sound effects/theme instead of fire). This move can kill around 150% on medium weight characters.

When in idol form this move deals much more damage and kill power (killing around 100% on medium weight characters)

Down B: "My Song"
Similar to Marth's Dancing Blade, Haruka starts the attack by making a dancing pose, and can continue the dance by repeatedly pressing B (up to 4 times). Unlike Dancing Blade she can change the direction of the attack midway through, and has variations on each stage of the extension rather than just at the end of the chain of attacks.

When in idol form the last attack of the string will have an additional heart effect and have more launch power. During the string itself colorful musical notes will pop out of her model dealing minor amounts of damage.

Tilts
Jab: Haruka points her finger forward, repeatedly tapping A will send small stars flying from her pointed finger continuing the jab animation
Dtilt: A simple leg sweep. It comes out fast but the damage is low and it doesn't trip.
Ftilt: Haruka does a simple slap. Fast but has low range and amage.
Utilt: Haruka raises her arm above her head with her fist clenched. This move is fast and open combo strings but doesn't have much horizontal coverage.
Dash Attack: Haruka does a dancy spin while continuing to move forward. Has decent knockback but has some endlag.

Aerials
Nair: Haruka strikes a pose with one arm extending forward clenched into a fist and one leg extended backward (similar to WFT's)
Bair: Haruka strikes a pose with both arms resting on her hips
Fair: Haruka strikes a pose and a colorful musical note will appear in front of her which deals damage
Uair: Haruka does a backflip similar to Rosalina
Dair: Haruka does a ballet spin in the air

Smash Attacks
Dsmash: Haruka does a ballerina spin which hits both sides and deals moderate knockback and damage.
Fsmash: Haruka shouts sending a musical note which travels a short distance in front of her dealing high knockback and damage. This move has lots of start and endlag.
Usmash: Haruka sends both arms above her head to make a heart sign, an actual colorful heart with a hitbox will pop up above her as well.


Grab/Throws
Haruka's grab is relatively slow with short range.

Pummel: Haruka slaps her opponent
Fthrow: Haruka strikes a pose, a colorful star appears and launches an opponent forward
Bthrow: Same as Fthrow but in reverse
Uthrow: Same as fthrow but upwards
Dthrow: Same but downwards
 

NonSpecificGuy

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As opposed to wanting to see all the content played through by the creator before you even get the update in your hands? Things like how each move works can be figured out by yourself, that's the joy of a video game - you play it for yourself. The depth in a character's moveset should speak for itself. You don't need every easter egg spoiled, that literally defeats the purpose of an -easter egg-. The dev commentary stuff is great, but a nearly-hour long video of Sakurai just playing Classic Mode as Terry is not the format for it.
I don’t really care about that stuff that much because I’m going to play it. And I feel like that’s where the fun comes from, when you play it. It’s just like watching a Let’s Play or something like that. Yeah you’re going to get spoiled but that’s not where most of the fun comes from.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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12 Hours left guys, half a day remaining.

Theres a Majoras Mask joke to make, but I can’t remember the quote.

Edit: Imagine failing simple math. Am I right guys? I’ve never facepalmed so hard at myself lmao.
 
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