Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Speed Weed]

2022: Clippy

2023: Bill Gates himself

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I feel like if we DO get Chief, then it'd be in June, though, I also kinda see him as a double reveal, since, as big as he is here, Halo isn't a super big franchise in Japan(iirc).

Halo is actually one of the larger FPS games over there alongside Doom and CoD. Even then it’s not saying a whole lot. Halo and Doom are known over there at the very least unlike, say, Punch-Out!!

 

[SKX31]

Ok I hate the argument that companies being greedy =\= invalid for smash.

SNK has Tencent, ****ing Tencent who is in leagues with the CCP, owning a large stake in them. Terry is in. Konami’s Treatment of its employees is notably awful. Look how much Konami content we have. Microsoft literally donated money to bush and gore to get a trust lawsuit to go away. We have Steve and Banjo.

Activision Blizzard is no angel. Don’t get me wrong. But to say that just because a company is “greedy” means that a character can’t be in smash is one of the absolute dumbest things you can argue.

It also does not help that Nintendo and Activision have a good working relationship but you do you.

Okay, major correction: Tencent does not own SNK. The current owners are Orient Securities Co., Ltd. (Shanghai-based investment bank) and 37Games (midsized mobile / browser game dev, appears often in Zhuges list over the 30 biggest Chinese mobile game companies but far from the biggest - Tencent - and the next biggest - Netease.) One of Orient Securities' listed parents are the Shenergy Group, an oil / natural gas company which to quote Wiki:

Shenergy Group Company Limited is a state-owned enterprise owned by Shanghai government in China.

Bam. There are your ties - indirect as they may be, they still exist. SNK <-Orient Securities <-Shenergy Group <-Shanghai government. 37 Games is a private company for all intents and purposes. Still, SNK and Tencent are very close to each other, what with the two frequently crossing over in the other titles (KoF fighters and Nakoruru - including Mai - appearing in Tencent's Honor of Kings, and HoK's Gongsun Li appearing in SamSho).

With SNK possibly being sold to the MSK Foundation soon. What's MSK? Mohammed bin Salman. The Saudi Prince (Yeah, he's a confirmed SNK fan). Since video games are an incredibly big industry, it really is no surprise that it has attracted the attention of powerful people. With all the nastiness that geopolitical implications carry - it's regardless of nation, true, some cases (such as this and the ties between Orient Securities and the CCP) are way more overt and direct. While it's difficult to even compare geopolitical implications because a lot of it are carried out behind the scenes, suffice it to say, it ain't a pleasant aspect.

While the reality between Tencent and the CCP is way more complex (Chinese internal politics features a lot of fighting between corps, as well as corporations like Tencent also being very suspicious of CCP activities and vice versa), it ain't inaccurate to say they're - mostly - in cahoots. The CCP gave Tencent the blessing to run WeChat - Tencent's biggest app, a Skype / mega-app that does everything - so CCP can more easily enforce their social order. In return, Tencent gained the security of knowing that they have a ****ton of mobile users using their apps and games - a secure flow of cash.

“They have a relationship of mutual benefit with the Chinese state,” says Jamie McEwan, an analyst at Enders. “They have been allowed to grow and massively diversify their businesses without the level of scrutiny or competition you might see in western countries.”

Smaller corps like 37Games enjoy some of the same stuff, but the connections are the most clear with Tencent.

However, and this is where I get to the suspicion part: there have been conflict between the CCP and the corps (as well as all other kinds of conflicts - incl. internal conflicts - of course). In 2017, state-run newspapers attacked Tencent's mobile LoL - Honor of Kings:

On July 4, 2017, it was reported that the game owner's Tencent had suffered a loss of $14 billion, or 4.1%, on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange after the People’s Daily criticized Honor of Kings (Wangzhe Rongyao) as a “poison” for young people, calling the content “a twist of values and historical views” and addictive. Variety dubbed the two critical articles a “demonstration of the power of China's state-run media and propaganda machine.

State-run Moral Guardians, too. Subtle.

It didn't take long before the Chinese government began to encourage limiting playtime for those under 18 (culminating in mandatory regulations and surveillance of kids' playtime. A lot of kids have tried to circumvent the surveillance.). And eventually the state halted all game approvals during 2018 in order to restructure the approval system and - whatdoyouknow - make it stricter. Tencent lost a ****ton of money during the approval freeze - which ended in 2019 - and had to restructure. There were concern amongst Tencent execs that they were relying too much on PC games, and maybe it was time to shift to the still-growing mobile market and diversify before it's too late.

And that's probably a major reason why Tencent approached Nintendo.

2022: Clippy

"I noticed you're trying to input a IDJ N-Air. Would you like too..."

2023: Bill Gates himself

Shout out to the time Bill Gates met Mario and explained to him the real reason why the Windows 95 existed. (Warning, it's in the NSFW Satellaview broadcast.)

To be fair, I don't think Nintendo and Microsoft really see each other as competitors anymore; At least, Microsoft doesn't. MS is shifting towards games as a service, and so their main opposition is other streaming services like the Amazon Luna, Apple Arcade, and Google Stadia (pfft). Not sure if Nintendo's stated how they feel, but MS let them have Minecraft and a handful of other games. Plus, Nintendo's goal with the Switch is the versatile hybrid gimmick and strong exclusives, which wouldn't interfere with Xbox's increased focus on streaming services. Given that they've crossed over in Smash twice already, I can easily see them doing it a third time.

Yeah, I'm getting the same impression, especially considering the fact that Nintendo have survived the mobile competitors pretty damn well using its own mobile console. And Microsoft has no real horse in that section either. I don't think Nintendo characters will appear on other platforms soon, but they'll probably cooperate with Microsoft in other areas in the future given how close they've been in the past years.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

You know I think Nintendo actually wanted Master Chief but Banjo & Kazooie and Steve got in the way.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Yo they showed off Lucario in Legends, you think they'll add Lucario in Smash?

Man imagine if it came with a Spear Pillar stage to celebrate the Sinnoh remakes, that would be so awesome.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Yo they showed off Lucario in Legends, you think they'll add Lucario in Smash?

No way! Lucario is old hat, Zoroark is coming to take that spot any day now!

 

[Brother AJ]

Yeah, but one is the Biggest Game of all time, while the other was a dying Franchise with nothing else since that collab and a couple of Switch Ports? Also, Activision overcharged for Crash back in PlayStation All-Stars, with him being $1,000,000. Imagine that Licensing for an Entire Challenger Pack, Characters, Stage, Music, and Background Characters. Crash 4 is a notable thing, sure, but that's only one after 5 years, and was just done by the Developers. I hope I'm wrong, but I JUST don't see it happening.

Activision would've had to approve of the change in art style to Crash 4 just FYI. I thought it was important to bring up Skylanders because it shows that, at the very least, Nintendo and Activision are capable of working together.

Regardless, strong and constant collaborations are clearly not required for a company to get into Smash (although I'm sure they help) as we can see by Konami's inclusion.

I would also very much like to know where you got this information about Crash's price for getting into PSABR. I cannot find this ANYWHERE. In fact, I can't find ANYTHING about the prices of third party characters, so I can hardly compare Crash's price to others to know if this is significant.

To be fair, Steve was a special case. A lot of us really did balk at Steve being planned as far back as the base game. A lot of speculation cropped up regarding similar situations, but we haven't gotten any official confirmation for anyone but Steve. It's one of those things we'll only know after the fact.

I only meant to point out that 5 years isn't necessarily too long for a company to want to work together again. For all we know, talks for Crash in Smash could've began during the Skylanders collaboration.

 

[Dinoman96]

Was Zoroark the mon that pretty much made Game Freak/TPC give up on having a clear cut poster boy each generation?

Like we get a obligatory new Pokemon each Smash game, but both Mewtwo and Lucario felt like such obvious and clear cut choices for it back in Melee and Brawl respectively considering they were the ones getting movies and what not. But nowadays Sakurai just basically picks one out of a hat as seen with Greninja and Incineroar, because none of these new Gens really have a Lucario equivalent.

 

[Shroob]

Was Zoroark the mon that pretty much made Game Freak/TPC give up on having a clear cut poster boy each generation?

Like we get a obligatory new Pokemon each Smash game, but both Mewtwo and Lucario felt like such obvious and clear cut choices for them back in Melee and Brawl respectively considering they were the ones getting movies and what not. But nowadays Sakurai just basically picks one out of a hat as seen with Greninja and Incineroar, because none of these new Gens really have a Lucario equivalent.

Pretty much.


Zoroark was popular, but never stuck as hard as Lucario did.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I saw some discussion on the last few pages wondering what the appeal of PlayStation is and I gotta say, I'm simultaneously surprised and unsurprised that Nintendo audiences don't get it.

I saw surprised because the reason to get a PS is pretty much the same reason to get a Nintendo console: they make amazing exclusives. PS4 era Sony, specifically, hit kind of a golden age where they were putting out classics left and right. Look at any GOTY list from the past generation, there's at least one Sony game on it, guaranteed. Sure, they don't put out exclusives at the volume that Nintendo does, but they make up for it in third party support (exclusive and non-exclusive) - a strategy Nintendo seems to be copying, by the way, we all saw the last Direct.

At the same time I'm not surprised that Nintendo fans don't get it because from their perspective Sony's exclusives are all probably the same game. That's unfortunate because it's completely mistaken but hey, people will make sweeping statements about stuff that doesn't appeal to them. Still, they appear to be trying to get back into the "cartoony" market, they even made Ratchet & Clank one of the defining games of the PS5 tech-wise. But I won't lie, losing Japan Studio will probably impact the type of games they made, and is a huge loss to the industry because now we don't have a console maker bankrolling both Japanese and Western devs (well, Asobi Studios is still alive, hopefully they can grow beyond just making tech demos).

Tbh, I kinda get it too. Brazil is weird with console gaming because of the insane taxes - and seeing as most games are available on PC these days, depending on what you play it can actually be less expensive in the long run to get a decent (not top-of-the-line, just decent) computer and buy what you want on Steam, because taxes aren't nearly as heavy there.

For this reason, it's kinda rare, in my experience, to see people buying more than one console per gen. People stick with what they know, because it's incredibly expensive to branch out.

As for me... I dunno, any interest I could have had in a Sony platform has gone away after the PS3. There's a few things that draw my attention here and there, but most of them come to PC a year or two afterwards. I personally never cared for their more "mature-looking" games like Uncharted, GoW or Horizon - I can understand why people like them, but they're not my cup of tea.

So I basically just buy Nintendo for the exclusives and everything else is on Steam. A surprising number of people do this sort of thing here (some do it with Sony + Steam), for the aforementioned reasons.

 

[Perkilator]

Guys, I just came across a Twitter that makes food recipes themed after Smash fighters.

 

[Peripuff]

Oh hey, I think it was that Peripuff guy who wanted the source on Furakawa. Here you go bud!

Oh thank you so much for that! It was a very interesting read. Am not a guy though

 

[SpecterFlower]

I sometimes feel like im the only person in the world who played JSR, does anybody else want beat or gum in smash?

 

[Technomage]

I sometimes feel like im the only person in the world who played JSR, does anybody else want beat or gum in smash?

What's that acronym stand for?

 

[chocolatejr9]

What's that acronym stand for?

Jet Set Radio. It involves being a teenage rebel back before Persona 5 made teenage rebels cool.

 

[Technomage]

Jet Set Radio. It involves being a teenage rebel back before Persona 5 made teenage rebels cool.

I remember hearing that. Wasn't that a game for the Dreamcast?

 

[chocolatejr9]

I remember hearing that. Wasn't that a game for the Dreamcast?

Pretty sure, yeah. Definetly before Sega went third party.

 

[Ivander]

Pretty much.


Zoroark was popular, but never stuck as hard as Lucario did.

It's sorta weird. Around Gen V, yeah, it was nowhere near as popular as Lucario, but nowadays, it feels like I see Zoroark more frequently than I have around Gen 5 times.

I sometimes feel like im the only person in the world who played JSR, does anybody else want beat or gum in smash?

I've played Jet Set Radio. And I want to play Jet Set Radio Future, yet that game still hasn't come to Steam or anything.

That said, Beat would be cool, although there are other Sega characters I want more than Beat.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Honestly if we do get a Pokemon as DLC I imagine they'll be a Gen 4 mon instead of Gen 8 mon. We have two big mainline games, one releasing this year and the other releasing next year, and both take place in Sinnoh. We're getting a new focus on Sinnoh and after that SwSh spirit event I think Gen 8's chances for Smash is over.

I ain't complaining because this increases the chances of us getting a cool Pokemon like Garchomp

 

[RileyXY1]

Honestly if we do get a Pokemon as DLC I imagine they'll be a Gen 4 mon instead of Gen 8 mon. We have two big mainline games, one releasing this year and the other releasing next year, and both take place in Sinnoh. We're getting a new focus on Sinnoh and after that SwSh spirit event I think Gen 8's chances for Smash is over.

I ain't complaining because this increases the chances of us getting a cool Pokemon like Garchomp

I think that both are happening too late, and I expect a third main series game for 2022, that being Let's Go Gen 2.

 

[Peripuff]

I sometimes feel like im the only person in the world who played JSR, does anybody else want beat or gum in smash?

Beat would be so cool. Haven't played JSR but I have been exposed to it very frequently through the Sega crossovers lol

 

[SNEKeater]

I feel that Yakuza only doing that when ****'s about to go down is reason enough to save it for a final smash. Then again, Sephiroth only loses his shirt during the final battle, but it's easily one of the most iconic scenes in the game.

Yeah, fair point. I could understand if Kiryu ripping off his suit would be exclusive to his final Smash, because that would be kinda faithful to the source material, but at the same time I'd love to be able to play with his tattoo exposed lol

 

[cashregister9]

If we were to get any Pokemon I think it would have been the most recentcharacter as the 2 presentations were almost certainly coordinated and being able to shill smash in the Pokemon presentation would have done wonders (Let me clarify, not a character announcement just a reminder for the announcement in the Direct proper). Now it's not like there won't be more Pokemon presentations in the future it's just that this one is literally the day before the anniversary.

Timing doesn't mean much in the grand scheme it just seems a bit fishy y'know what I mean?

 

[Brother AJ]

Stuff like RFA and Astral Chain seems like a given, but they’ll definitely have some big 3rd parties to sell the pass. I imagine companies like Microsoft and Square who had characters in both passes already, seem likely, if FP3 were to be announced.

Also just because some characters we have are evidenced to have been negotiated for long before they arrived in Smash does not mean negotiating for characters itself is necessarily a lengthy process.

Considering the amount of red tape that exists in modern corporations, I'd be surprised if the process isn't SOMEWHAT lengthy on average. Of course, I don't know for sure. Hopefully we get more information on the negotiation process in the future.

That said, I think you're right that characters from companies already in Smash may be able to make Pass 3 if they decide to have one.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Honestly if we do get a Pokemon as DLC I imagine they'll be a Gen 4 mon instead of Gen 8 mon. We have two big mainline games, one releasing this year and the other releasing next year, and both take place in Sinnoh. We're getting a new focus on Sinnoh and after that SwSh spirit event I think Gen 8's chances for Smash is over.

I ain't complaining because this increases the chances of us getting a cool Pokemon like Garchomp

I don't know. I still think Nintendo would be more interested in promoting the newest generation of Pokemon instead of an older gen.

 

[Shroob]

If we were to get any Pokemon I think it would have been the most recentcharacter as the 2 presentations were almost certainly coordinated and being able to shill smash in the Pokemon presentation would have done wonders. Now it's not like there won't be more Pokemon presentations in the future it's just that this one is literally the day before the anniversary.

Timing doesn't mean much in the grand scheme it just seems a bit fishy y'know what I mean?

We don't get Smash in game-specific Directs and presentations though.


The most we've ever gotten was "Oh btw, we're having a Mario tournament" in the Mario 35 one, that's it. And this is like, going back as far as Smash 4 days, that Mario tournament was like the sole exception in 7 years worth of Directs and Speculation.

 

[cashregister9]

We don't get Smash in game-specific Directs and presentations though.


The most we've ever gotten was "Oh btw, we're having a Mario tournament" in the Mario 35 one, that's it. And this is like, going back as far as Smash 4 days, that Mario tournament was like the sole exception in 7 years worth of Directs and Speculation.

I meant the character would be revealed in the main Nintendo direct and in the Pokemon presentation, when they were going over the current 35th anniversary promotions in things like Pokemon GO and SwSh, they could have just dropped something like "Oh by the way in case you missed it X Pokemon is coming to Smash Bros. in march stay tuned" or something like that, not a full on character announcement.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I ain't complaining because this increases the chances of us getting a cool Pokemon like Garchomp

cough*Cynthia*cough

Spiritomb, Milotac and Garchomp

 

[SpecterFlower]

Beat would be so cool. Haven't played JSR but I have been exposed to it very frequently through the Sega crossovers lol

imo JSR is one of Sega's great's it's pretty cheap on steam, i would recommend it wholeheartedly.

 

[ahemtoday]

cough*Cynthia*cough

Spiritomb, Milotac and Garchomp

Honestly, Cynthia is probably the only chance I'll ever get to play as Milotic. I still think it would be a bad move to do another transformation character (whose movesets aren't clones like Pyra's), but Cynthia's gradually winning me over...

 

[cashregister9]

If we were to get any Pokemon I think it would have been the most recentcharacter as the 2 presentations were almost certainly coordinated and being able to shill smash in the Pokemon presentation would have done wonders (Let me clarify, not a character announcement just a reminder for the announcement in the Direct proper). Now it's not like there won't be more Pokemon presentations in the future it's just that this one is literally the day before the anniversary.

Timing doesn't mean much in the grand scheme it just seems a bit fishy y'know what I mean?

Yeah after thinking about this, this makes no sense, What I'm just trying to say is.

I don't think we are getting a Pokémon, Gen 8 was spirited away and Lucario ate the Gen 4 lunch but I've been wrong in the past so whatever.

 

[Brother AJ]

I REALLY don't think we're getting a 4th gen Pokemon. Just seems far too redundant to me. ANOTHER gen 4 stage and more music as well? I just don't see it. They'd want to show off their shiny and new 'mons if anything.

 

[PLANTMAN]

I don't know. I still think Nintendo would be more interested in promoting the newest generation of Pokemon instead of an older gen.

Who says they can’t?

I REALLY don't think we're getting a 4th gen Pokemon. Just seems far too redundant to me. ANOTHER gen 4 stage and more music as well? I just don't see it. They'd want to show off their shiny and new 'mons if anything.

and they already did via spirit event

as for gen 4 I don’t think they’ll have a Problem promoting an old ds game again

 

[ahemtoday]

Who says they can’t?

...How do they promote gen 4 and gen 8 simultaneously? Both of the last characters are Pokemon? Cynthia, but she has a Wooloo for some reason?

I think I'm misunderstanding your point, here.

 

[PLANTMAN]

...How do they promote gen 4 and gen 8 simultaneously? Both of the last characters are Pokemon? Cynthia, but she has a Wooloo for some reason?

I think I'm misunderstanding your point, here.

Let me rephrase that

who says they can’t promote an older gen

 

[Sysreq]

Honestly, Cynthia is probably the only chance I'll ever get to play as Milotic. I still think it would be a bad move to do another transformation character (whose movesets aren't clones like Pyra's), but Cynthia's gradually winning me over...

The only way I could get legitimately hyped over a Pokemon rep at this stage in the game is if it was Cynthia. I don't care how, just give me Cynthia lol

 

[Ivander]

cough*Cynthia*cough

Spiritomb, Milotac and Garchomp

Honestly, Cynthia is probably the only chance I'll ever get to play as Milotic. I still think it would be a bad move to do another transformation character (whose movesets aren't clones like Pyra's), but Cynthia's gradually winning me over...

The only way I could get legitimately hyped over a Pokemon rep at this stage in the game is if it was Cynthia. I don't care how, just give me Cynthia lol

Yes. More Waifu for the Smash Gods.

I wouldn't mind Cynthia if they do another Trainer character. If there is another Trainer character, aside from Cynthia, the only other ones I want for a Trainer character are Blue/Gary, Silver, N or Giovanni.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Rather than a transformation character. We could also get solo Garchomp who has an install mechanic where he is able to transform into Mega Garchomp while Cynthia is in the background supporting him.

 

[Faso115]

Nah you all wrong, we are getting Grovyle just because.

 

[Brother AJ]

and they already did via spirit event

as for gen 4 I don’t think they’ll have a Problem promoting an old ds game again

Personally I don't believe we're getting a Pokemon rep at all unless there's a FP3. If they want a gen 8 rep in Smash I don't think they're going to let a spirit event stop them. Besides, they've yet to promote the DLC in Smash.

I suppose I'm thinking Sakurai will think it's redundant, and would probably not prefer it unless Nintendo insists or something. Honestly I just think it would be a really bad idea that probably would be very poorly received.