Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Þe 1 → Way]

Question

I got to ask, How would speculation of the next 2 fighters change if Dante was in Pyra/Mythra's Mii Costume wave, because honestly I could see him showing up in this wave for reasons?

Capcom is dead without FP3.
And if there is an FP3. MH, Phoenix, and Chun Li are gonna have an even more intense fight than what is currently happening.

 

[Dinoman96]

I wonder how the people who firmly believe series should be represented by their main character / mascot first and foremost feel about the Marvel vs Capcom rosters. But in any case...

To be honest, I think MVC, at least, the newer games that weren't just sprite dumps, also mostly adhere to the "main character / mascot first" rule. At least for the Capcom side, which Capcom obviously has full control over.

Like really, outside of Mega Man being a complete no show in U/MVC3, there isn't anything egregious feeling about the Capcom side. Basically all of the other series represented have their main character or poster boy/girl there, like Ryu, Frank West, Arthur, Chris, Viewtiful Joe, Morrigan, Ammy, Dante and so on.

It's only the Marvel side that's a little weird, like Rocket Raccoon but no Starlord or Doom/Super Skrull but no Fantastic Four, but that was mostly selected by Marvel anyways.

 

[JCKirbs]

Like SharkLord said, that's probably more due to Super Star Ultra being a remake. Had it not been a remake, it would probably be the one people look to as the starting point of Modern Kirby, unless they are purely referring to when Kirby switched to being primarily 3D rather than Sprite-Based.

Oh, I agree, that's just not what sells passes..its the characters chosen typically. Nintendo uses DLC for three things, primarily.

• More Money, of course.
• Promoting other games/series.
• Bringing in more people into Smash that happen to be fans of the games the character chosen are from.

In Byleth's case, its primarily Smash fans that were annoyed at another Fire Emblem & Sword character, but people who got into FE through Three Houses and weren't already Smash fans wouldn't quite care, they'd just hear a character from a game they liked was in Smash..it works too, think about how many people got into Soul Calibur through Link appearing in Soul Calibur II.
On a slightly related note, I don't think Fire Emblem as a series, when it comes to Smash, will ever recover from how many characters got added during Smash 4 since now every time a FE character is announced we'll hear 'too many FE' even if they cut some of the extras like Lucina & Chrom..though I'd prefer they not cut any as I'm sure I'd lose Lucina, whom I love, and I doubt they'd make her a costume as was originally planned now that she was her own fighter..

Every Kirby game is already represented in Smash by Kirby, and then also Meta Knight and Dedede, so Kirby fans were already brought into Smash through that. I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'Rising Star Syndrome', since one would think that becoming more important would usually enhance their chances. I'm kinda just basing this on how we haven't gotten any Mario, Zelda, or Pokémon characters as DLC even when it would have made sense, not counting Veterans returning in Smash 4 like Mewtwo, or weird DLC like Piranha Plant that still seems like it was only DLC due to not being finished in time for Base Game, since it has a Palutena's Guidance and all. Granted, I suppose that Sephiroth is an outlier here since Cloud would have already brought in FFVII fans..but that may have been them taking the chance to rectify the series not having much content to begin with.

While I'd love for Dixie to be a DLC character, I just feel she's a 'Base Roster or Bust' type of character since we already have an abundance of Donkey Kong content and she wouldn't bring much to the game with her inclusion as a lot of it would be superfluous, unlike Sephiroth who at least brought the content FFVII was missing for Spirits & Music. Dixie, and Waddle Dee or any other characters I feel are 'Base or Bust', wouldn't add anything for the most part outside of the character themselves. Neither series is lacking for Spirits, Music, or Stages..Even ARMS and Xenoblade 2 were surprisingly limited in representation and of course Three Houses had no representation at all.

I'd happily be wrong, but that's just my two cents..I think that with the way Nintendo has set this up, the character needs to bring more than just themselves, they need to bring Spirits, Music, and a Stage as well and if their home series/game already has that essentially covered than they probably weren't considered, or at least not heavily considered. That's just my speculation though..but it is part of why all of my wishlist picks have been from Games or Series with little to no representation in the game..aside from just being characters I really want to see.

Oh how I would love Morrigan to be in Super Smash Bros..Darkstalkers is one of my favorite series and Morrigan, along with Lilith (who would be a PERFECT alternate skin), is one of my favorite characters in all of gaming..if only her design could be censored enough without losing a lot of her character personality in the process..

I guess Fire Emblem simply got lucky then, being a franchise with a constant need to be up-to-date with the latest and the greatest, and perhaps Nintendo simply thought that people should try to give the franchise another chance with a more successful game like Three Houses (granted Byleth was chosen before it was clear on whether or not Three Houses would be favorably received). On the other slightly related note, I don't think I'd be one of those people to actively suggest the removal of any particular FE character myself. Although I can still resonate with how Corrin left a bad taste in people's mouths due to not only FE already having two new characters in Smash 4's base roster, but also coming from a pretty controversial game.

Now, by "Rising Star Syndrome" I really mean this:
I personally would say that Bandana Dee has been considered as a beacon for the Modern Kirby era for a while, just like how Kirby Super Star Ultra was (through newly introduced elements like Soul Bosses and reoccurring characters like Galacta Knight). His newly upgraded status as the representative of the Waddle Dee species, and the establishment of himself as a main protagonist was a notable aspect of this new age, taking his place next to King Dedede and Meta Knight as one of Kirby's main allies and a character who aren't tied to one specific game. Furthermore, he basically serves as Kirby's main friend, maintaining a stellar track record of appearances in the Modern Kirby era while helping Kirby out in every way he can in either mainline or certain spin-off titles.

At the same time, people have argued (and honestly misinterpreted) that he's merely a throwaway, fill-a-slot, Player 4 character because of how his roles fluctuate as a main protagonist and perhaps how he isn't entirely on the same level as King Dedede or Meta Knight (and I probably wouldn't refrain from putting it up for debate, myself) thus giving him "Rising Star Syndrome". Because a rising star is considerably who he is, a character who is still developing their purpose with a franchise while showing significant strides anyway, and I would think that comes with conflictions when brought to a table like Smash.

I do think I can resonate with the idea that it's much harder for 1st Party franchises that aren't new to Smash (unlike ARMS) or don't have rotating casts (unlike Xenoblade and FE) to get new characters through DLC, but I'd rather still root for characters like Bandana Dee and Dixie anyway.

Not to disregard your points anyway, because they're quite good and I could simply be delusional, and thank you for taking the time to respond up to this point.

Maybe if they ever consider 1 or 2 standalone bonus fighters (based on notability/moveset potential rather than what brand, spankin' new things they would bring to their respective franchises), then perhaps more base roster-esque characters would then have a better chance... but of course, that's nothing more than wishful thinking at the moment.

 

[DevaAshera]

I have a question. Why do people want Crash Bandicoot in this game? I don't mean that in a bad way but it confuses me. I would think everyone here would be rallying behind Jak and Daxter, Spyro, or the Prince from Prince of Persia. Why Crash?

Mostly because Crash Bandicoot was the Mario or Sonic of the PSone, he was the undisputed main mascot of the system and achieved popularity both in the West and Japan that the other three you mentioned never did (especially not Spyro since they butchered his games in the Japanese release).
Nostalgic love for Crash is very similar to the Nostalgic love Sega Genesis/Mega Drive players hold for Sonic.

 

[Perkilator]

I have a question. Why do people want Crash Bandicoot in this game? I don't mean that in a bad way but it confuses me. I would think everyone here would be rallying behind Jak and Daxter, Spyro, or the Prince from Prince of Persia. Why Crash?

He‘s just a long-standing friendly rival of Mario and Sonic and just a generally iconic character who still retains his relevance to this day.

 

[SharkLord]

Question

I got to ask, How would speculation of the next 2 fighters change if Dante was in Pyra/Mythra's Mii Costume wave, because honestly I could see him showing up in this wave for reasons?

There's going to be a sharp divide between "Monster Hunter has the best chance they ever had!" and "Monster Hunter is dead!" I'll just be sitting back and seeing what happens.

 

[cashregister9]

I have a question. Why do people want Crash Bandicoot in this game? I don't mean that in a bad way but it confuses me. I would think everyone here would be rallying behind Jak and Daxter, Spyro, or the Prince from Prince of Persia. Why Crash?

He is not only relevant and popular but he is filled with so much personality as seen through not only his animations and voice lines but also his moveset.

Jak and Daxter are locked behind Sony and Spyro has little to no chance due to the poor decisions made with the Japanese rereleases, and the Prince while I've seen some support is not nearly as popular as any of the other 3.

 

[RGFS]

I have a question. Why do people want Crash Bandicoot in this game? I don't mean that in a bad way but it confuses me. I would think everyone here would be rallying behind Jak and Daxter, Spyro, or the Prince from Prince of Persia. Why Crash?

1. He's the original "Mr. Playstation" character. His inclusion and also originally being a Naughty Dog creation almost makes it feels like connecting that side of gaming to Smash. His inclusion feels like representing Spyro, Kratos, Nathan Drake, Jak, or Sackboy

2. during his time as the big Sony associated character, he fought against Nintendo's Mario and Sega's Sonic during the 90s console wars

3. Out of those characters you mentioned, I've only played Crash and I've known about the character for a very long time

4. He's a big, acclaimed series at around 50 million units sold

5. He would have an insanely fun and creative moveset with flow and mechanics that would be pretty interesting. (A down tilt slide that chains into a jump for more damage, the death tornado spin for rapidly tapping the spin attack, jetpack or box recovery, the rocket launcher, the quantum masks as a down b, aku aku as a unique mix between Luma and Arsene that leaves after you take enough damage)

 

[Mamboo07]

I have a question. Why do people want Crash Bandicoot in this game? I don't mean that in a bad way but it confuses me. I would think everyone here would be rallying behind Jak and Daxter, Spyro, or the Prince from Prince of Persia. Why Crash?

Because everyone always expects him as the next character too many times.

After every Smash reveal, people overrate his chances expecting him to be next and it doesn't happen.

Spoiler: Pretty much this

"GUYS! HE'S GONNA BE IN!"
Joker gets in

"HE WILL BE AT E3!"
Hero gets in

"HE'S GONNA BE ONE OF THE TWO REVEALS!"
Banjo and Kazooie gets in

"THEY WOULDN'T LEAVE OUT AN ICONIC FIGHTER!"
Terry gets in who's a niche character

"HE'S GONNA BE THE LAST FIGHTER!"
Byleth gets in

"FUNNY BANDICOOT IS GONNA BE THE FIRST!"
Min-Min gets in

"HE WILL BE FIGHTER 7 OR 8!"
Steve and Sephiroth gets in

"CRASH 4 IS ON THE SWITCH, HE IS GONNA BE IN!"
Pyra and Mythra are in

 

[Dinoman96]

After every Smash reveal, people overrate his chances expecting him to be next and it doesn't happen.

Happens with a lot of characters tbh

I remember the days when Travis Touchdown was considered a front runner. Geno as well.

Sadly, I fear the same's gonna happen with Crash and Ryu Hayabusa.

 

[Shroob]

Crash is more or less the third wheel of the console war debates, between him, Mario, and Sonic.


Was it a super corporately pushed decision to have him get up in Mario's grill? Yeah, absolutely.


But the thing is, in the end, he won. His franchise may have gone to hell after 3, but the PS1 destroyed the N64 in terms of sales.



He was, at the time, the unofficial Playstation mascot, and to be honest, I feel like the sentimentality behind wanting Crash shares somewhat elements of both Sonic and Banjo. Let me explain.


Sonic was highly requested because, he's Sonic, duh, but also because "Oh, he used to be Mario's rival, and now they can fight!"

Banjo's been dead as a franchise for years, but a lot of people who wanted Banjo remember the good memories they had with his games and the nostalgia it brings.


It's half "He's a console rival", and half "90's nostalgia", coupled with the fact that his series revival was actually a surprising success.

 

[SpecterFlower]

the fight for capcom rep is going to be fierce if it isn't monster hunter.

I think we can all agree that if we go by amount of iconic third party pick's capcom would be 1st so no matter what character they get it'll still feel like something's missing at this point.

 

[Shroob]

the fight for capcom rep is going to be fierce if it isn't monster hunter.

I think we can all agree that if we go by amount of iconic third party pick's capcom would be 1st so no matter what character they get it'll still feel like something's missing at this point.

If it's not Monster Hunter, meaning that the Miis get confirmed as returning, it's probably not a Capcom character in this pass in general tbh.

 

[Mamboo07]

Happens with a lot of characters tbh

I remember the days when Travis Touchdown was considered a front runner. Geno as well.

Sadly, I fear the same's gonna happen with Crash and Ryu Hayabusa.

Him, Hayabusa and Dante are pretty much the big 3 expected for Smash DLC.

 

[DevaAshera]

I guess Fire Emblem simply got lucky then, being a franchise with a constant need to be up-to-date with the latest and the greatest, and perhaps Nintendo simply thought that people should try to give the franchise another chance with a more successful game like Three Houses (granted Byleth was chosen before it was clear on whether or not Three Houses would be favorably received). On the other slightly related note, I don't think I'd be one of those people to actively suggest the removal of any particular FE character myself. Although I can still resonate with how Corrin left a bad taste in people's mouths due to not only FE already having two new characters in Smash 4's base roster, but also coming from a pretty controversial game.

Now, by "Rising Star Syndrome" I really mean this:
I personally would say that Bandana Dee has been considered as a beacon for the Modern Kirby era for a while, just like how Kirby Super Star Ultra was (through newly introduced elements like Soul Bosses and reoccurring characters like Galacta Knight). His newly upgraded status as the representative of the Waddle Dee species, and the establishment of himself as a main protagonist was a notable aspect of this new age, taking his place next to King Dedede and Meta Knight as one of Kirby's main allies and a character who aren't tied to one specific game. Furthermore, he basically serves as Kirby's main friend, maintaining a stellar track record of appearances in the Modern Kirby era while helping Kirby out in every way he can in either mainline or certain spin-off titles.

At the same time, people have argued (and honestly misinterpreted) that he's merely a throwaway, fill-a-slot, Player 4 character because of how his roles fluctuate as a main protagonist and perhaps how he isn't entirely on the same level as King Dedede or Meta Knight (and I probably wouldn't refrain from putting it up for debate, myself) thus giving him "Rising Star Syndrome". Because a rising star is considerably who he is, a character who is still developing their purpose with a franchise while showing significant strides anyway, and I would think that comes with conflictions when brought to a table like Smash.

I do think I can resonate with the idea that it's much harder for 1st Party franchises that aren't new to Smash (unlike ARMS) or don't have rotating casts (unlike Xenoblade and FE) to get new characters through DLC, but I'd rather still root for characters like Bandana Dee and Dixie anyway.

Not to disregard your points anyway, because they're quite good and I could simply be delusional, and thank you for taking the time to respond up to this point.

Maybe if they ever consider 1 or 2 standalone bonus fighters (based on notability/moveset potential rather than what brand, spankin' new things they would bring to their respective franchises), then perhaps more base roster-esque characters would then have a better chance... but of course, that's nothing more than wishful thinking at the moment.

True enough, though Fates wasn't a controversal game yet since it hadn't released in the West at the time of Corrin's announcement, but yes, due to Fire Emblem having no cuts from Brawl to Smash 4 and then gaining not only 2 newcomers but then also adding Roy back in as DLC only to than do Corrin as well..though, in my opinion, it was more the 'Fire Emblem already got a DLC character' than it was the actual amount and it just kinda morphed into that due to Everyone Is Here bringing them all back and then adding Chrom on top of it..and as ANOTHER Marth clone no less (like, serious, why not an Ike Echo? Yes, he was supposed to have thought Lucina how to fight, but that hardly matters here..). Honestly, Byleth was kinda screwed by the Everyone Is Here nature of Smash Ultimate since we had to have all of the FE reps back but also were likely to represent the newest Fire Emblem as well since the series is a big seller for Nintendo. Yeah, they didn't know its sales numbers yet, but the series had consistently sold well since Awakening.

Oh, I don't blame rooting for them, just temper expectations. I am honestly surprised that Bandanna Dee wasn't in the base game, though I guess they were going with big picks from the Ballot and newcomer series over anything else. Had Everyone Is Here not been the rallying cry for Ultimate, I bet he would have been a pick for the Base Roster.

No problem. If they do end up adding stand alone DLC, like with Piranha Plant, I could definitely see characters like Bandanna Dee and Dixie Kong getting in that way..then they wouldn't need to bring a stage, songs, and spirits along with them.

Happens with a lot of characters tbh

I remember the days when Travis Touchdown was considered a front runner. Geno as well.

Sadly, I fear the same's gonna happen with Crash and Ryu Hayabusa.

I've been saying it for a while now, but our community is constantly wrong about who is a Frontrunner or Most Likely...Remember in Smash 4 when everyone said 'King K. Rool is totally in!' and 'Shovel Knight is totally in!' following Fan Polls asking who fans voted for?
I'll say characters are likely or unlikely, but never call any of them a frontrunner or almost certain due to this. At this point, I think Nintendo likes choosing DLC characters that people aren't expecting.

 

[SharkLord]

I have a question. Why do people want Crash Bandicoot in this game? I don't mean that in a bad way but it confuses me. I would think everyone here would be rallying behind Jak and Daxter, Spyro, or the Prince from Prince of Persia. Why Crash?

Popularity scales directly proportional to perceived likelyhood. Crash was the mascot of the PlayStation back in the day, managed to get a decent level of popularity in Japan (A rarity for Western characters), is currently undergoing a resurgence, and has gained some decent Nintendo connections during that resurgence. He doesn't have many disadvantages to downplay what's in his favor, either, so he shot up through the ranks and became an easy prediction.

Jak and Daxter are locked behind Sony, and they haven't really interacted with Nintendo at all. Spyro's games had truly horrendous Japanese localizations, and Crash ended up overshadowing him anyways. The Prince has been mentioned as a darkhorse a couple times, but he hasn't really gone through a resurgence like Crash did; The upcoming remake of Sands of Time isn't slated for a Switch release, Rayman has cemented himself as the most popular Ubisoft pick, and the Miis of Altair and the Rabbids has made some people think Ubisoft isn't getting a fighter.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

1. He's the original "Mr. Playstation" character. His inclusion and also originally being a Naughty Dog creation almost makes it feels like connecting that side of gaming to Smash. His inclusion feels like representing Spyro, Kratos, Nathan Drake, Jak, or Sackboy

2. during his time as the big Sony associated character, he fought against Nintendo's Mario and Sega's Sonic during the 90s console wars

3. Out of those characters you mentioned, I've only played Crash and I've known about the character for a very long time

4. He's a big, acclaimed series at around 50 million units sold

5. He would have an insanely fun and creative moveset with flow and mechanics that would be pretty interesting. (A down tilt slide that chains into a jump for more damage, the death tornado spin for rapidly tapping the spin attack, jetpack or box recovery, the rocket launcher, the quantum masks as a down b, aku aku as a unique mix between Luma and Arsene that leaves after you take enough damage)

I would think Cloud would be "Mr. Playstation" not Crash and as someone that played CB, his games bored me. Well, Twinsanity was good though. I mean, if Crash gets in, I'll be happy for people that wanted him and will try him out myself if his moveset is fun but I'm sincerely baffled about the support for him when there are better reps from his same company.

Same with Rayman too now that I think about it. The swell behind him baffles me but unlike Crash and my like of twinsanity, all of Rayman's games were terrible.

 

[Shroob]

I stand by the conspiracy theory that the 2 clocks Pic of the Day was a nod to Crash 4.


Nothing to do with Crash getting in Smash or anything, but the clock hands were in the exact same position of the ones on the heads of the 2 N.Tropies.

 

[Knight Dude]

Question

I got to ask, How would speculation of the next 2 fighters change if Dante was in Pyra/Mythra's Mii Costume wave, because honestly I could see him showing up in this wave for reasons?

It'll mostly be a Romance of the Three Kingdoms-ish Blood War between Monster Hunter Bros, Phoenix Wright Bros, and DarthEnderX being the head of Arthur fanclub that's got a good 40 members.

As for me? I'd still mostly hope for a 2nd Mega Man character, while occasionally dapping up Chun-Li too.

 

[SpecterFlower]

If it came down to a bloody battle to the last one standing for Capcom's invite im on phoenix's side.

 

[Dinoman96]

I also think it helps that Crash was one of the few western IPs to actually make some kind of dent in Japan. His original games were multi-million sellers there during the PS1 era...only problem is that he kinda petered off afterwards (the remasters flopped there despite them selling gangbusters everywhere else).

Going into Ultimate, Banjo (former Nintendo cred), Steve (best selling game everywhere) and Crash (historical popularity in Japan) were the three western characters that made the most sense to me. Complete the trio, Sakurai.

 

[Knight Dude]

I have a question. Why do people want Crash Bandicoot in this game? I don't mean that in a bad way but it confuses me. I would think everyone here would be rallying behind Jak and Daxter, Spyro, or the Prince from Prince of Persia. Why Crash?

I'm personally more of a Spyro guy myself, to me Tekken and Spyro define the PlayStation more than most titles.

As for Crash though, he's had far more of an impact on gaming as a whole. Not quite to the degree of Mario or Sonic, or even Mega Man, Metroid and Castlevania. But he's an early 3D icon and was used heavily in the system's marketing.

Even during the turbulent PS2 Crash era, he fared alright, at least well enough to not be forgotten.

Of course now, with 3 remakes, a new racing title and a new game, the guys back in the spotlight. Jak and Daxter hasn't exactly had that. Spyro's still getting there and so is the Prince of Persia.

 

[RGFS]

Because everyone always expects him as the next character too many times.

After every Smash reveal, people overrate his chances expecting him to be next and it doesn't happen.

Spoiler: Pretty much this

"GUYS! HE'S GONNA BE IN!"
Joker gets in

"HE WILL BE AT E3!"
Hero gets in

"HE'S GONNA BE ONE OF THE TWO REVEALS!"
Banjo and Kazooie gets in

"THEY WOULDN'T LEAVE OUT AN ICONIC FIGHTER!"
Terry gets in who's a niche character

"HE'S GONNA BE THE LAST FIGHTER!"
Byleth gets in

"FUNNY BANDICOOT IS GONNA BE THE FIRST!"
Min-Min gets in

"HE WILL BE FIGHTER 7 OR 8!"
Steve and Sephiroth gets in

"CRASH 4 IS ON THE SWITCH, HE IS GONNA BE IN!"
Pyra and Mythra are in

I've never been so hurt with the truth... When it comes to this pass though, there's only been two characters I've been 99% confident we would end up seeing in, that was Steve, who I was surprised to see so early, and Crash, who I'm surprised we haven't seen yet.

I mean, if we don't end up seeing Crash in any way, so be it but I will be incredibly surprised. He isn't someone like Geno or Doom where most of the people just feel they're likely because his name is thrown around too much. There is a lot going for him in general and mostly nothing truly going against him.

I would think Cloud would be "Mr. Playstation" not Crash and as someone that played CB, his games bored me. Well, Twinsanity was good though. I mean, if Crash gets in, I'll be happy for people that wanted him and will try him out myself if his moveset is fun but I'm sincerely baffled about the support for him when there are better reps from his same company.

Same with Rayman too now that I think about it. The swell behind him baffles me but unlike Crash and my like of twinsanity, all of Rayman's games were terrible.

FF7 likely sold more on the PSOne but in terms of "Mr. Playstation" I mean Crash was an unofficial mascot that most associated the console with and the one you think goes toe to toe with Mario or Sonic. Cloud isn't really mascot material as a spiky-haired moody dude. When it comes to Crash games, I really enjoy the movement and options he has in Crash 3, letting you string moves in fun ways, good flow, and having multiple options is what I love in platformers.

I can't speak to the quality of Rayman titles but I absolutely see nothing going for him to become a full fighter. I have no idea what his fans think he has going for him. I say good luck to them but they should be grateful their character has any Smash representation, I can't say the same for some of my top picks. Rayman'ss moveset potential somewhat bores me but that's subjective I guess.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

If it came down to a bloody battle to the last one standing for Capcom's invite im on phoenix's side.

Our man will make the turnabout happen, no doubt

 

[JCKirbs]

True enough, though Fates wasn't a controversal game yet since it hadn't released in the West at the time of Corrin's announcement, but yes, due to Fire Emblem having no cuts from Brawl to Smash 4 and then gaining not only 2 newcomers but then also adding Roy back in as DLC only to than do Corrin as well..though, in my opinion, it was more the 'Fire Emblem already got a DLC character' than it was the actual amount and it just kinda morphed into that due to Everyone Is Here bringing them all back and then adding Chrom on top of it..and as ANOTHER Marth clone no less (like, serious, why not an Ike Echo? Yes, he was supposed to have thought Lucina how to fight, but that hardly matters here..). Honestly, Byleth was kinda screwed by the Everyone Is Here nature of Smash Ultimate since we had to have all of the FE reps back but also were likely to represent the newest Fire Emblem as well since the series is a big seller for Nintendo. Yeah, they didn't know its sales numbers yet, but the series had consistently sold well since Awakening.

Oh, I don't blame rooting for them, just temper expectations. I am honestly surprised that Bandanna Dee wasn't in the base game, though I guess they were going with big picks from the Ballot and newcomer series over anything else. Had Everyone Is Here not been the rallying cry for Ultimate, I bet he would have been a pick for the Base Roster.

No problem. If they do end up adding stand alone DLC, like with Piranha Plant, I could definitely see characters like Bandanna Dee and Dixie Kong getting in that way..then they wouldn't need to bring a stage, songs, and spirits along with them.

Yeah, I practically don't even know what to really say about FE at this point because it's not like it shouldn't get more characters even in the future due to how the games are structured (like Pokemon and Xenoblade); however at the same time, between Smash 4 and Ultimate, the series just gave the impression that it was overloaded with characters through and through. Perhaps it's nice to know that Nintendo trusts in the brand well enough to pull something like Byleth out of their hat, though.

But yeah, considering that Ultimate flipped the whole game design/decision process on its head, I think I'll try a bit harder to fully temper my expectations instead of going full throttle on "How (X) character can still win" posts from time to time. I guess the stress of just wanting certain characters in Smash already is simply taking a toll on how I should truly see things in the eyes of general speculators at this point; although, that's probably just a "me" problem, since in reality it really is just pixels in a video game.

 

[Knight Dude]

I forgot about Crash's solid popularity in Japan too. Crazy to think it took Spider-Man PS4 to outdo Crash as a western PS game that did really well in Japan.

Though from what I remember Ratchet and Clank also did pretty solidly in Japan, unlike it's older brother Spyro.

R&C was always my "impossible Sony character of choice" when it came to that. But most of the discussion here has been surrounding Kratos (also understandable) and Kat from Gravity Rush, despite not being as successful, I guess the character just resonates with people, which is neat.

 

[Shroob]

So here's a thought.


Let's say that the MonHun costumes skip P/M's presentation


But they also skip CP10's, and unlike say, Square, CP10 isn't a "All costumes must be from the same company", so while we get a few costumes from them, we also get a few, new ones from various other games.


If we're down to CP11 and the MH Miis are still missing, would you bet on them happening, or still doubt it somewhat? Because frankly, if CP10 didn't bring them back, while also not being company-locked for Mii costumes, that would be extremely weird.

 

[RGFS]

So here's a thought.


Let's say that the MonHun costumes skip P/M's presentation


But they also skip CP10's, and unlike say, Square, CP10 isn't a "All costumes must be from the same company", so while we get a few costumes from them, we also get a few, new ones from various other games.


If we're down to CP11 and the MH Miis are still missing, would you bet on them happening, or still doubt it somewhat? Because frankly, if CP10 didn't bring them back, while also not being company-locked for Mii costumes, that would be extremely weird.

My speculation would depend on who CP10 is.

 

[Peripuff]

If Crash ends up happening I really hope we end up getting Coco as an echo fighter alongside him. Purely because I have much stronger nostalgia for her tbh lol and I think she is a really cool character.

 

[Shroob]

My speculation would depend on who CP10 is.

For this thought, let's say it's not a Capcom character.


Unless we're REALLY lucky and we get CP10 between now and June, I think it's safe to assume that CP10 will be our June drop character.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think Corrin pretty much completely ruined Fire Emblem in the eyes of Smash fans.

Like Fire Emblem really shouldn't of gotten another character in Smash 4 after it already got Robin (+Lucina as a bonus) in the base game, and also especially how they just added back Roy in the same DLC cycle. Smash 4 just pumped in way too many Fire Emblem characters way too fast and now it's permanently damaged the series' reputation amongst Nintendo/Smash loyalists.

Really they should of just never bothered with Corrin and also should of just held back Roy for Ultimate (where everyone was here anyways), just use Elma and Wolf instead for a new post-Smash 4 Nintendo newcomer and a popular returning veteran respectively. Had they done all of that, I think people would of been far more accepting of Byleth in Ultimate (though I imagine some people would be raising their eyebrows at FE having seven characters, but again, that's mostly because of "Everyone is Here" + Chrom being a popular bonus that was easy to add), because by that point it'd had been several long years since Fire Emblem got an all new fighter in Smash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

When do you think the next Smash Presentation will be? I wanna learn how Pyra and Mythra work.

 

[Shroob]

When do you think the next Smash Presentation will be? I wanna learn how Pyra and Mythra work.

If this week is off limits seemingly due to Pokemon, at the rate that Sakurai is posting PotDs featuring them, it can't be that much longer.


If this week is out, then my guess is next week, though, when they release is anyone's guess.

 

[RGFS]

For this thought, let's say it's not a Capcom character.


Unless we're REALLY lucky and we get CP10 between now and June, I think it's safe to assume that CP10 will be our June drop character.

Yeah, even without a Capcom character, if we get some sort of gunner character, or JRPG character, or fighting game character, or anyone who isn't Crash and everything you say still applies, I don't think MH would be happening since I still feel Crash would get in or that concert leak would fully die.

If we got Crash as CP10, and MH is completely absent from all the other Mii rounds, I think it would be a pretty safe bet overall to say MH is next even if we could totally see something else.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Corrin pretty much completely ruined Fire Emblem in the eyes of Smash fans.

Like Fire Emblem really shouldn't of gotten another character in Smash 4 after it already got Robin (+Lucina as a bonus), and also especially how they just added back Roy in the same DLC cycle. Smash 4 just pumped in way too much Fire Emblem characters way too fast and now it's permanently damaged the series' reputation amongst Nintendo/Smash loyalists.

Really they should of just never bothered with Corrin and also should of just held back Roy for Ultimate (where everyone was here anyways), just use Elma and Wolf instead for a new post-Smash 4 Nintendo newcomer and a popular returning veteran respectively. Had they done all of that, I think people would of been far more accepting of Byleth in Ultimate (though I imagine some people would be raising their eyebrows at FE having seven characters, but again, that's mostly because of "Everyone is Here"), because by that point it'd had been several long years since Fire Emblem got an all new fighter in Smash.

I like Corrin but yeah, they were a bad pick. From my understanding Sakurai wanted a character from a recent Nintendo game, and the best candidates at the time were Fates and Xenoblade X. Elma would’ve been an amazing pick for a multitude of reasons, but even if he went the Fates route there’s no reason not to pick Azura instead. Going full tinfoil hat here, but I think enough people in the office were horny for Corrin and lobbied Sakurai for their inclusion against his better judgement.

 

[Pillow]

Yeah..I'm still holding out hope for a Darkstalkers 4..if only Capcom would just license it to like Arc System Works or something..I think they could do a phenomenal Darkstalkers game and its not like Capcom's main Fighting Game team is going to do it anytime soon.

Arc System deadass is gonna be given licenses to create a fighting game for every franchise in existence at this rate.

I have a question. Why do people want Crash Bandicoot in this game? I don't mean that in a bad way but it confuses me. I would think everyone here would be rallying behind Jak and Daxter, Spyro, or the Prince from Prince of Persia. Why Crash?

Well...Crash is pretty similar to all those characters except his franchise is bigger than theirs ever work thanks to a semi-successful aggressive marketing campaign launched by Sony, and then recently has gained popularity again thanks to his franchise getting an actual sequel unlike those other stagnant series

I wonder how the people who firmly believe series should be represented by their main character / mascot first and foremost feel about the Marvel vs Capcom rosters. But in any case...

I think generally it's still safe to assume that the main protagonist takes precedent, the "exceptions" that we've seen usually boiling down to characters who are arguably equal in significance to their "main character" or "posterboy" counterpart (Robin, Min Min, Pyra to Chrom, Spring Man and Rex respectively).

I do personally think this rule can be skewed regarding series where you play as avatar characters though. Like, I think Monster Hunter would get precedent over Palico but I wouldn't be upset or super confused if they DID go with Palico. The precedent Smash has set is that it's okay with opting for avatars so it's a bit difficult to imagine but not quite jarring in the same way it would be if we got like... Tails over Sonic. This kinda dips into "mascot" over protagonist though which we already do have precedent for as well (Pikachu).

I think a very strong case can be made for Sans over Frisk, at least. Maybe that's a better example. Or Solaire over Chosen Undead, I think that would work out just fine. But generally these characters are just REALLY prominent or popular to get to the point where they could be considered over the most obvious grab, so yeah they're usually gonna be heavy exceptions to the rule.

Just rambling at this point, long story short I don't think the "main character rule" is broken enough to really matter in the longrun outside of a few notable exceptions. Outside of the ones I mentioned I legitimately can't really come up with any others.

Sans is kind of a weirdo case like Geno in terms of his popularity. I don’t really see Solaire getting in over Undead / Unkindled tbh. And there’s lots of series that have situations similar to ARMs in that there’s tons of options that can fit the bill as a “main character.” There’s also a few series I can see akin to monster hunter where the villain is more iconic than the playable character and would see smash representation first such as Pyramid Head or GlaDOS.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Sans is kind of a weirdo case like Geno in terms of his popularity.

I am very confused by this claim.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I have a question. Why do people want Crash Bandicoot in this game? I don't mean that in a bad way but it confuses me. I would think everyone here would be rallying behind Jak and Daxter, Spyro, or the Prince from Prince of Persia. Why Crash?

Crash Bandicoot is bigger and more successful than any of the character/franchises you just mentioned.

- Jak & Daxter isn't gonna happen, Despite being also created by Naughty Dog, People aren't gonna waste their time rallying for someone who isn't likely at all to make the cut and the biggest obstacle is being owned by Sony who's likely not gonna play ball with Nintendo.

- Crash Bandicoot has always been the bigger and more successful franchise compared to Spyro the Dragon since their days with Sony/Universal Interactive back during the PS1 era, Despite both now currently owned by Activision, It's still the same old story.

Bottom Line: I like Spyro and all, But no way in hell does Activision choose Spyro before Crash for Smash.

- I don't know jack **** about Prince of Persia, But isn't that an Ubisoft property? Doesn't really have much to do with Crash, But chances are "If" Ubisoft gets a rep chances are it's gonna be their "Mascot" Rayman.

Crash Bandicoot checks off pretty much everything that many people are looking for in Smash Bros fighter and has very few weaknesses which is why he's viewed as a popular/obvious choice for Smash speculation.

 

[DevaAshera]

Yeah, I practically don't even know what to really say about FE at this point because it's not like it shouldn't get more characters even in the future due to how the games are structured (like Pokemon and Xenoblade); however at the same time, between Smash 4 and Ultimate, the series just gave the impression that it was overloaded with characters through and through. Perhaps it's nice to know that Nintendo trusts in the brand well enough to pull something like Byleth out of their hat, though.

But yeah, considering that Ultimate flipped the whole game design/decision process on its head, I think I'll try a bit harder to fully temper my expectations instead of going full throttle on "How (X) character can still win" posts from time to time. I guess the stress of just wanting certain characters in Smash already is simply taking a toll on how I should truly see things in the eyes of general speculators at this point; although, that's probably just a "me" problem, since in reality it really is just pixels in a video game.

Pretty much. Outside of the Big Four (Mario, Pokémon, Zelda, & Kirby), Fire Emblem is one of their best selling series, and their premier RPG series, which Xenoblade is rapidly becoming as well, and one of its few series for more mature audiences, along with some entries in the Zelda series, Xenoblade, and Metroid.

I'm also kinda on the 'its now or never' boat with some of my picks because, lets me honest, if Joker, Byleth, and Pyra/Mythra didn't happen in Smash now, they would probably never happen as the next newest entry would have an entirely new cast that would be more likely to be picked from, while characters like Dixie, Ashley, and Bandanna Dee would still be in the running since they aren't from revolving roster games, but if they got in now (with the exception of Joker maybe) they're more likely to get to return in the next game along with the newer game's characters.

I like Corrin but yeah, they were a bad pick. From my understanding Sakurai wanted a character from a recent Nintendo game, and the best candidates at the time were Fates and Xenoblade X. Elma would’ve been an amazing pick for a multitude of reasons, but even if he went the Fates route there’s no reason not to pick Azura instead. Going full tinfoil hat here, but I think enough people in the office were horny for Corrin and lobbied Sakurai for their inclusion against his better judgement.

I doubt you're take on that, since Corrin fits Sakurai's normal MO of going for the main character of the game and unique moveset potential, given their transforming limbs and all.
I agree that Elma would have been an inspired pick, even as someone that loves (female) Corrin, but she was probably passed over for Corrin due to there being more 3DS players than Wii U players, so more people would likely know/get to know Corrin, and Fates was probably projected to sell a lot more copies than Xenoblade X did.

It probably wasn't against Sakurai's judgment at all, since he still has final say for most things, so I think he picked Corrin purely for moveset potential and being the main character, which Elma technically wasn't due to the avatar character of Xenoblade X technically being the main character.

 

[SWSU]

I think Corrin pretty much completely ruined Fire Emblem in the eyes of Smash fans.

Like Fire Emblem really shouldn't of gotten another character in Smash 4 after it already got Robin (+Lucina as a bonus) in the base game, and also especially how they just added back Roy in the same DLC cycle. Smash 4 just pumped in way too many Fire Emblem characters way too fast and now it's permanently damaged the series' reputation amongst Nintendo/Smash loyalists.

Really they should of just never bothered with Corrin and also should of just held back Roy for Ultimate (where everyone was here anyways), just use Elma and Wolf instead for a new post-Smash 4 Nintendo newcomer and a popular returning veteran respectively. Had they done all of that, I think people would of been far more accepting of Byleth in Ultimate (though I imagine some people would be raising their eyebrows at FE having seven characters, but again, that's mostly because of "Everyone is Here" + Chrom being a popular bonus that was easy to add), because by that point it'd had been several long years since Fire Emblem got an all new fighter in Smash.

I think you're pretty spot on. Since a part of the ire that came with Byleth came from those that had the reaction of "REALLY?! They didn't learn from Corrin?"