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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

SnowClaws

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When do you think the next Smash Presentation will be? I wanna learn how Pyra and Mythra work.
I believe it somewhere at Tuesday or Wednesday on March, since that is usually most of the presentation airing date.

For me, I think it is going to be at March 9 or 10. Just a gut feeling, though this will conflict with the Monster Hunter Digital Event at Mar. 08 (Mon). Who knows, it could happen at the first week or maybe the third week, but I expect the usual March indie world presentation to occur on the third week instead.
 

Shroob

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It's funny.


This is the 2nd time ever that I've been more interested in the stuff in the Sakurai Presents that isn't the character.


With Sephiroth, there was that ****ery the night before with the datamined notifications, which had a shockingly low amount allotted to them, and we had no idea what that meant, and of course, there was the ever burning question of Geno's fate. Come the Direct, we learned why the notifications were soo small(Due to Sephiroth launching early due to the Challenge, and the Miis launching later), and Geno's fate was shown to be a Mii once more.


Pyra and Mythra... well, as cool as they are, they seem pretty simple to understand, really. Pyra's the slower, stronger one, and Mythra's the faster one, and from what we've seen, their neutrals seem to be more or less the same, with their specials and final smash being different.


However, with these two, two nagging questions emerge. Namely:

A) What Mii costumes do they come with?

B) When do they come out?


Everyone's expecting Lloyd to die as a Mii, for good reason... but what in the chance that he just... doesn't? What if Monster Hunter dies? If Monster Hunter doesn't die, then not a whole lot changes in regards to discussion, but if they do? Hooo boy things are gonna get weird.


And, when exactly do they launch? Like, I really, really doubt that we'll get CP10 between now and June... but at the same time, character releases have sped up dramatically, so to be blunt, if they launch like, the first week of March, then truthfully speaking, CP10 in April or May wouldn't even surprise me, in fact, it'd be 100% on pace as of lately.


The CP drops have sped up, a LOT, and if Pyra and Mythra continue this trend.... well, it'll be interesting to talk about. Of course, they could not launch early, but there's kinda a sinking suspicion that we're not too terribly far from them coming out either.
 

Louie G.

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There’s also a few series I can see akin to monster hunter where the villain is more iconic than the playable character and would see smash representation first such as Pyramid Head or GlaDOS.
Oh yeah, Pyramid Head for sure. I actually see him as a sleeper pick for a potential surprise Mii Costume lmao.

GlaDOS I assume would be a boss? If by any circumstance Portal got content in Smash I would imagine they'd go all the way, but yeah GlaDOS is generally more noteworthy than Chell. Guess it should be the time to mention that I feel like Portal would be the Valve series we get in Smash if we were going to get one.
 
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Pillow

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I am very confused by this claim.
As in his popularity kinda of exceeds his status as a side character.


Pretty much. Outside of the Big Four (Mario, Pokémon, Zelda, & Kirby), Fire Emblem is one of their best selling series, and their premier RPG series, which Xenoblade is rapidly becoming as well, and one of its few series for more mature audiences, along with some entries in the Zelda series, Xenoblade, and Metroid.

I'm also kinda on the 'its now or never' boat with some of my picks because, lets me honest, if Joker, Byleth, and Pyra/Mythra didn't happen in Smash now, they would probably never happen as the next newest entry would have an entirely new cast that would be more likely to be picked from, while characters like Dixie, Ashley, and Bandanna Dee would still be in the running since they aren't from revolving roster games, but if they got in now (with the exception of Joker maybe) they're more likely to get to return in the next game along with the newer game's characters.

I doubt you're take on that, since Corrin fits Sakurai's normal MO of going for the main character of the game and unique moveset potential, given their transforming limbs and all.
I agree that Elma would have been an inspired pick, even as someone that loves (female) Corrin, but she was probably passed over for Corrin due to there being more 3DS players than Wii U players, so more people would likely know/get to know Corrin, and Fates was probably projected to sell a lot more copies than Xenoblade X did.

It probably wasn't against Sakurai's judgment at all, since he still has final say for most things, so I think he picked Corrin purely for moveset potential and being the main character, which Elma technically wasn't due to the avatar character of Xenoblade X technically being the main character.
The biggest tragedy about having so many fire emblem characters now, it’s that as Smash moves away from its Nintendo roots and tried to bring in other franchises, other fantasy JRPG characters will inevitably be grouped together with fire emblem characters. I hope if there are roster cuts for the next game, a majority of the FE cast will be cut so that series like Tales and Ys can be introduced without too much criticism.


Oh yeah, Pyramid Head for sure. I actually see him as a sleeper pick for a potential surprise Mii Costume lmao.

GlaDOS I assume would be a boss? If by any circumstance Portal got content in Smash I would imagine they'd go all the way, but yeah GlaDOS is generally more noteworthy than Chell. Guess it should be the time to mention that I feel like Portal would be the Valve series we get in Smash if we were going to get one.
I kinda envision both to make better bosses than characters, though I suppose pyramid head could be playable.
 
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DarthEnderX

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I have a question. Why do people want Crash Bandicoot in this game? I don't mean that in a bad way but it confuses me. I would think everyone here would be rallying behind Jak and Daxter, Spyro, or the Prince from Prince of Persia. Why Crash?
Because a commercial they saw as kids convinced them he was Mario's rival. Even though his games sucked.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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It probably wasn't against Sakurai's judgment at all, since he still has final say for most things, so I think he picked Corrin purely for moveset potential and being the main character,
Your close, but timing also played a considerable factor. At the time Sakurai thought Fire Emblem was well represented. He eventually settled on Corrin due to Fates being just around the corner (and already released in Japan), that and Corrins potential moveset. He still seems to have had to be convinced by his team though.

Heres the article so it doesn’t seem like I’m talking out my ass. http://sourcegaming.info/2015/12/23/496/
Its a pretty interesting read considering what came after.
 

Shroob

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I believe it somewhere at Tuesday or Wednesday on March, since that is usually most of the presentation airing date.

For me, I think it is going to be at March 9 or 10. Just a gut feeling, though this will conflict with the Monster Hunter Digital Event at Mar. 08 (Mon). Who knows, it could happen at the first week or maybe the third week, but I expect the usual March indie world presentation to occur on the third week instead.
And then the 4th week is Rise's release date, so that's obviously off limits.


Although Nintendo isn't hosting the Digital Event(I don't think), I find it hard to believe that they'd launch a Smash character that week when it's in their best interest to get as many eyes on it as possible.


Likewise, is anything at all planned for the first week of March?
 

Nekoo

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Im going to say it but...yknow, once again, Pokemon does what Pokemon Want.
The Sakurai Present doesnt steal the thunder of any of its announcements or vice versa.
Neither the MH direct will.

They could run all the same week, it wouldn't do anything, and it already happened before.
 
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Shroob

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As in his popularity kinda of exceeds his status as a side character.



The biggest tragedy about having so many fire emblem characters now, it’s that as Smash moves away from its Nintendo roots and tried to bring in other franchises, other fantasy JRPG characters will inevitably be grouped together with fire emblem characters. I hope if there are roster cuts for the next game, a majority of the FE cast will be cut so that series like Tales and Ys can be introduced without too much criticism.



I kinda envision both to make better bosses than characters, though I suppose pyramid head could be playable.
It's cute that you think Smash fans wouldn't crucify any JRPG character with spikey hair and a sword even if they cut the FE cast down to a single character.
 

Mamboo07

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I think Corrin pretty much completely ruined Fire Emblem in the eyes of Smash fans.

Like Fire Emblem really shouldn't of gotten another character in Smash 4 after it already got Robin (+Lucina as a bonus) in the base game, and also especially how they just added back Roy in the same DLC cycle. Smash 4 just pumped in way too many Fire Emblem characters way too fast and now it's permanently damaged the series' reputation amongst Nintendo/Smash loyalists.

Really they should of just never bothered with Corrin and also should of just held back Roy for Ultimate (where everyone was here anyways), just use Elma and Wolf instead for a new post-Smash 4 Nintendo newcomer and a popular returning veteran respectively. Had they done all of that, I think people would of been far more accepting of Byleth in Ultimate (though I imagine some people would be raising their eyebrows at FE having seven characters, but again, that's mostly because of "Everyone is Here" + Chrom being a popular bonus that was easy to add), because by that point it'd had been several long years since Fire Emblem got an all new fighter in Smash.
Yup, no wonder why Fire Emblem is so hated by the Smash fanbase, due to too many anime swordies.
 

TheCJBrine

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As in his popularity kinda of exceeds his status as a side character.
But they’re not like the beaver brothers in Majora’s Mask or whoever, they’re important characters who are involved in the plot. Undertale especially with how you interact with the characters; being a “side” character doesn’t mean much unless it’s like a random NPC or enemy, characters like Sans, Papyrus, and the rest of the important cast are about on the level of Frisk. They’re cool, mysterious, funny, (all this applying to Geno too) etc. Sans and Papyrus were also kinda used as mascots in the Switch release teaser, and a variation of Bonetrousle is always the main trailer theme for Undertale releases.

Of course this is all subjective, I guess I just got confused as to why their popularity is weird. Tbh still don’t see why them not being the protagonist matters regarding that.

Tbh I don’t get reducing characters down to “side character” and all that either, that’s like completely ignoring the character themself, and really sounds weird as someone who’s played through Undertale and SMRPG. Like I get some like Tingle in some games as a more-important side character (although Tingle’s stuff tends to be optional too), but ones like Sans, Geno etc. seem much more important than that.

edit: Like, this is basically implying Sans and the others are like, for example, that drunk bunny-thing NPC in Grillby’s. I really don’t understand how their basic role matters regarding their popularity/how their popularity can exceed their role.
 
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Shroob

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Im going to say it but...yknow, once again, Pokemon does what Pokemon Want.
The Sakurai Present doesnt steal the thunder of any of its announcements or vice versa.
Neither the MH direct will.

They could run all the same week, it wouldn't do anything, and it already happened before.
I think the thing about Sakurai Direct "This" week is they have about 3 days left to announce it.

Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.


Min Min's Presents was on a Friday, so the absolute latest we can wait is Thursday, otherwise, it won't be this week.
 

SpectreJordan

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Why does having a recent game even prevent a character from being considered retro? Contra got a game not too long ago, and that series is widely considered to be Retro. Same with Battletoads. Pacman is the Retro character in Smash, and has had tons of games released within the last decade. If we're going to label a character as retro, or not, then really the only thing that should matter is the year they premiered.

So yeah, **** the noise, Ryu Hayabusa is still my retro pick. The only reason people care if something is retro or not in the first place, is because it implies legacy, and Hayabusa has that in spades.
I definitely agree with you, I was just playing along with the question’s rules.
 

Pillow

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It's cute that you think Smash fans wouldn't crucify any JRPG character with spikey hair and a sword even if they cut the FE cast down to a single character.
Some would, and you can’t please anyone. But a lot of people who dislike JRPG guys do so largely because the genre is so highly represented in Smash, while we don’t have any characters from FPS’s, Rythm Games, Puzzle Games, phone games, etc.

It’s not just FE though, I’m a supporter of cutting characters from several franchises if they’re not going to keep the everyone is here theme going for the next game anyway.
 

DevaAshera

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I think Corrin pretty much completely ruined Fire Emblem in the eyes of Smash fans.

Like Fire Emblem really shouldn't of gotten another character in Smash 4 after it already got Robin (+Lucina as a bonus) in the base game, and also especially how they just added back Roy in the same DLC cycle. Smash 4 just pumped in way too many Fire Emblem characters way too fast and now it's permanently damaged the series' reputation amongst Nintendo/Smash loyalists.

Really they should of just never bothered with Corrin and also should of just held back Roy for Ultimate (where everyone was here anyways), just use Elma and Wolf instead for a new post-Smash 4 Nintendo newcomer and a popular returning veteran respectively. Had they done all of that, I think people would of been far more accepting of Byleth in Ultimate (though I imagine some people would be raising their eyebrows at FE having seven characters, but again, that's mostly because of "Everyone is Here" + Chrom being a popular bonus that was easy to add), because by that point it'd had been several long years since Fire Emblem got an all new fighter in Smash.
I'd have to agree, though I think that Corrin would have been accepted a bit more had Roy been saved for Ultimate and the series as a whole would be better received if Sakurai hadn't made the frankly terrible decision to have half of its reps have mostly the same moveset..like, seriously.. for original movesets with have Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin, & Byleth, but then we have Roy, Lucina, and Chrom who all share movesets primarily with Marth..had Sakurai chosen to change up Lucina more in Ultimate and made Chrom an Echo of Ike instead of an Echo of a Marth Clone, it may have fixed it a bit more as well.

But yes, its largely 'EVERYONE IS HERE' that, ironically, caused a lot of the issues here. Fire Emblem is in a bit of a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation..Like everyone wants EVERYONE to return, but that also means that Fire Emblem, as a series that has been in since Melee with a revolving cast and multiple Echos/Clones, would have a disproportionately large cast where most of them would have ended up cut otherwise.

I think that one of the ways to 'fix' this issue is to have all Clones/Echoes share a slot, much like we can do with Echos already, including characters like Roy & Chrom under Marth as well, so that when you choose Marth he has 4 overall options for moveset signified by Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom.
This would make the Fire Emblem Reps technically drop from 8 (Marth, Lucina, Roy, Chrom, Ike, Robin, Corrin, Byleth) to 5 (Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin, Byleth), which might be more palatable for people.

I think that the series stigma will stick for a while, and I blame Sakurai continually making Marth clones..like I recall people WANTING Roy to return before Lucina was announced as a new Marth clone.

In short, I think people's seeming hatred of clones prior to the term 'Echo Fighter' mixed with how many of them Fire Emblem had and thus people begun associating their issue to be with Fire Emblem, as a series, rather than the actual issue they were having.

Some would, and you can’t please anyone. But a lot of people who dislike JRPG guys do so largely because the genre is so highly represented in Smash, while we don’t have any characters from FPS’s, Rythm Games, Puzzle Games, phone games, etc.

It’s not just FE though, I’m a supporter of cutting characters from several franchises if they’re not going to keep the everyone is here theme going for the next game anyway.
To be fair, FPS games aren't really popular in Japan, Puzzle Games are a bit difficult to represent in general (though we do have Dr. Mario as a Puzzle Game Rep), Rhythm Games could similarly be difficult to accurately depict in a fast paced game like Smash, and you may be the first person I've ever seen want mobile gaming reps.

We are also missing visual novel reps, which could be repped by Phoenix Wright, Ayumi Tachibana, or, my personal choice, Saber from Fate/stay night.
 

Louie G.

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But a lot of people who dislike JRPG guys do so largely because the genre is so highly represented in Smash, while we don’t have any characters from FPS’s, Rythm Games, Puzzle Games, phone games, etc.
Honestly a bit tired of both JRPG and Platforming characters for this reason considering both of my most wanteds are from unrepresented genres (no Dr Mario doesn't count) and, in the eyes of many Smash fans, those are the only two genres to exist. It wears me out a bit.

Not that I'm judging characters on arrival for being part of sufficiently represented genres in Smash, and no doubt there's a lot of variety within those genres when it comes to character selection, but I do wish they'd make a bit of an effort to reach into those new territories. Steve was a nice breath of fresh air for this reason, even if it didn't cater specifically to my interests lmao.
 
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Pillow

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I'd have to agree, though I think that Corrin would have been accepted a bit more had Roy been saved for Ultimate and the series as a whole would be better received if Sakurai hadn't made the frankly terrible decision to have half of its reps have mostly the same moveset..like, seriously.. for original movesets with have Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin, & Byleth, but then we have Roy, Lucina, and Chrom who all share movesets primarily with Marth..had Sakurai chosen to change up Lucina more in Ultimate and made Chrom an Echo of Ike instead of an Echo of a Marth Clone, it may have fixed it a bit more as well.

But yes, its largely 'EVERYONE IS HERE' that, ironically, caused a lot of the issues here. Fire Emblem is in a bit of a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation..Like everyone wants EVERYONE to return, but that also means that Fire Emblem, as a series that has been in since Melee with a revolving cast and multiple Echos/Clones, would have a disproportionately large cast where most of them would have ended up cut otherwise.

I think that one of the ways to 'fix' this issue is to have all Clones/Echoes share a slot, much like we can do with Echos already, including characters like Roy & Chrom under Marth as well, so that when you choose Marth he has 4 overall options for moveset signified by Marth, Roy, Lucina, and Chrom.
This would make the Fire Emblem Reps technically drop from 8 (Marth, Lucina, Roy, Chrom, Ike, Robin, Corrin, Byleth) to 5 (Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin, Byleth), which might be more palatable for people.

I think that the series stigma will stick for a while, and I blame Sakurai continually making Marth clones..like I recall people WANTING Roy to return before Lucina was announced as a new Marth clone.

In short, I think people's seeming hatred of clones prior to the term 'Echo Fighter' mixed with how many of them Fire Emblem had and thus people begun associating their issue to be with Fire Emblem, as a series, rather than the actual issue they were having.


To be fair, FPS games aren't really popular in Japan, Puzzle Games are a bit difficult to represent in general (though we do have Dr. Mario as a Puzzle Game Rep), Rhythm Games could similarly be difficult to accurately depict in a fast paced game like Smash, and you may be the first person I've ever seen want mobile gaming reps.

We are also missing visual novel reps, which could be repped by Phoenix Wright, Ayumi Tachibana, or, my personal choice, Saber from Fate/stay night.
Sure, there are legitimate reasons why the roster is the way it is. I’m just trying to say that a lot of people critical towards the JRPG gang aren’t necessarily haters, they would just like to see more diversity.

Also lol, Saber would also ironically rep phone games as well, as her phone game is far more popular than any of her VN’s ever were. Also she’s like...peak anime sword. I can’t think of anyone more anime sword than her.

And I don’t actually want a mobile game rep. It was just an example of an unexplored market in Smash that is widely popular.
 
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SpectreJordan

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Ngl, as someone who loves JRPGs & particularly loves the inclusions of Joker/Sephiroth, the amount of JRPG characters we’ve gotten as DLC is sort of ridiculous. Half the DLC characters so far have been from one genre.

Come on, spread the love a little bit. Especially since there’s several beloved genres with no characters yet.

I think they should’ve chose one of Byleth or Pyra & then had someone like Officer Howard or Ring Fit Trainee as the next Nintendo DLC spot.
 

DevaAshera

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Sure, there are legitimate reasons why the roster is the way it is. I’m just trying to say that a lot of people critical towards the JRPG gang aren’t necessarily haters, they would just like to see more diversity.

Also lol, Saber would also ironically rep phone games as well, as her phone game is far more popular than any of her VN’s ever were. Also she’s like...peak anime sword. I can’t think of anyone more anime sword than her.
Yeah, though its probably due to JRPGs becoming much more popular than they used to be..I mean, look at two of the biggest games of 2017, Persona 5 and NieR Automata, both JRPGs.

Lol yeah, she would and I would still be here for her..though I think the only reason Fate/Grand Order is more popular than Fate/stay night is due to the latter only ever being officially released in Japan, though its anime adaptions were pretty well received in the West as well and is debatably where a lot of Western Fate fans know her from. Fate/Grand Order was the most tweeted about game of 2019 (or was it 2018?) if I recall correctly though.

I bet if Saber got in though we'd hear people that don't know her complaining about 'another JRPG character' though XD
 
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Nekoo

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I don't mind whatever genre we get as characters. I don't see a characters as an JRPG REP or PLATFORMING REP.
I just see that character as the character that comes from x Game.

If we get 5 platformers characters from great game. Great. If we get 5 characters from great JRPG sure!

I think people should just stop looking at "representation" as a check list just consider the character by itself. Sakurai didn't look at the previous fighter's genre and be like ,"eh. One more, one less."
He went like "Oh shieet Sephiroth? Persona 5? Xenoblade 2? Dragon Quest? Fatal Fury? Threehouses? Arms? **** YEAH! THEY'RE GREAT GAMES!"
 

JCKirbs

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Pretty much. Outside of the Big Four (Mario, Pokémon, Zelda, & Kirby), Fire Emblem is one of their best selling series, and their premier RPG series, which Xenoblade is rapidly becoming as well, and one of its few series for more mature audiences, along with some entries in the Zelda series, Xenoblade, and Metroid.

I'm also kinda on the 'its now or never' boat with some of my picks because, lets me honest, if Joker, Byleth, and Pyra/Mythra didn't happen in Smash now, they would probably never happen as the next newest entry would have an entirely new cast that would be more likely to be picked from, while characters like Dixie, Ashley, and Bandanna Dee would still be in the running since they aren't from revolving roster games, but if they got in now (with the exception of Joker maybe) they're more likely to get to return in the next game along with the newer game's characters.
Indeed, I think that i'll end up coming off of Ultimate with a more thankful impression that certain characters got into the game when they did. Because I truly do like and appreciate every Ultimate DLC character thus far. Because honestly, it does seem a little unsettling that there are characters that could simply not get into Smash despite being solid candidates at one point in time.
 

DevaAshera

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Indeed, I think that i'll end up coming off of Ultimate with a more thankful impression that certain characters got into the game when they did. Because I truly do like and appreciate every Ultimate DLC character thus far. Because honestly, it does seem a little unsettling that there are characters that could simply not get into Smash despite being solid candidates at one point in time.
Yeah, pretty much..I mean, its definitely a big part of why we didn't get a Gen 3 Pokémon in the game since Gen 3 wasn't around for Melee and by the time Brawl rolled around it was already time for Gen 4.
I don't mind whatever genre we get as characters. I don't see a characters as an JRPG REP or PLATFORMING REP.
I just see that character as the character that comes from x Game.

If we get 5 platformers characters from great game. Great. If we get 5 characters from great JRPG sure!

I think people should just stop looking at "representation" as a check list just consider the character by itself. Sakurai didn't look at the previous fighter's genre and be like ,"eh. One more, one less."
He went like "Oh shieet Sephiroth? Persona 5? Xenoblade 2? Dragon Quest? Fatal Fury? Threehouses? Arms? **** YEAH! THEY'RE GREAT GAMES!"
I agree wholeheartedly, I don't care about 'too much representation' for a particular genre (or series) as long as the characters are good and fun.
 

Pillow

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Yeah, though its probably due to JRPGs becoming much more popular than they used to be..I mean, look at two of the biggest games of 2017, Persona 5 and NieR Automata, both JRPGs.

Lol yeah, she would and I would still be here for her..though I think the only reason Fate/Grand Order is more popular than Fate/stay night is due to the latter only ever being officially released in Japan, though its anime adaptions were pretty well received in the West as well and is debatably where a lot of Western Fate fans know her from. Fate/Grand Order was the most tweeted about game of 2019 (or was it 2018?) if I recall correctly though.

I bet if Saber got in though we'd hear people that don't know her complaining about 'another JRPG character' though XD
I wouldn’t mind seeing Saber, but I am in the minority in this forum that thinks that content from her base series does severely hurt her chances, aside from her generally being unknown to the west.

and yes JRPGs are big, and I acknowledge that. There’s also plenty of variation within the genre itself. I’m actually a huge supporter of 2B because I think she’s just more interesting looking then say, Lloyd or Adol (no offense to their fans) who I think share a lot of the same visual themes with a lot of the current Smash roster.


I don't mind whatever genre we get as characters. I don't see a characters as an JRPG REP or PLATFORMING REP.
I just see that character as the character that comes from x Game.

If we get 5 platformers characters from great game. Great. If we get 5 characters from great JRPG sure!

I think people should just stop looking at "representation" as a check list just consider the character by itself. Sakurai didn't look at the previous fighter's genre and be like ,"eh. One more, one less."
He went like "Oh shieet Sephiroth? Persona 5? Xenoblade 2? Dragon Quest? Fatal Fury? Threehouses? Arms? **** YEAH! THEY'RE GREAT GAMES!"
That’s fair, and most people probably share your vision. But there’s no shortage of good games to choose fighters from, so why not also try to diversify the genres a bit?
 

SnowClaws

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And then the 4th week is Rise's release date, so that's obviously off limits.


Although Nintendo isn't hosting the Digital Event(I don't think), I find it hard to believe that they'd launch a Smash character that week when it's in their best interest to get as many eyes on it as possible.


Likewise, is anything at all planned for the first week of March?
For the first week, not much beside Nintendo acquisition of Next Level Games and Microsoft acquisition of ZeniMax Media. Either way, Monster Hunter is going to conflict with Crash 4 on Mar 12, and then Story of Seasons on Mar. 23.
 

Louie G.

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I think people should just stop looking at "representation" as a check list just consider the character by itself. Sakurai didn't look at the previous fighter's genre and be like ,"eh. One more, one less."
I do look at it from a character to character basis, but I don't just want say, a rhythm game character because I want a "rhythm game rep". It's because the prospect of a musical character excites me a lot and that is somehow an unexplored avenue in Smash, and I happen to like a lot of rhythm games and could find joy in many of them getting a playable character (even if there's one I want more than every other - don't want to keep droning about it but I am quite the fan of Rhythm Heaven). Rhythm games have a tendency to be colorful and quirky, with excellent soundtracks.... there's a lot to offer across the board.

Or puzzle games, which have such interesting and unique mechanics that I would love to see interpreted into Smash in some form. Seeing how games like Puyo Puyo and Panel de Pon can be quite competitive, I think that hot blooded energy can be replicated in a fighter better than most people realize. In its simplest form the idea of dropping blobs or tiles on players' heads makes for a fun concept, and I really enjoy when wackier ideas can thrive from an unlikely source. I love a lot of games from both of these genres, and it just disappoints me a bit that we've never seen them realized in a single character when they could bring ideas that no character from any other genre could.

So no, it's not really about "reps", it's about brand new exciting concepts that could bring a lot to the game but have been shafted. And again, I'm not holding it against characters from genres that do have a large spread of characters / series already in Smash, but I would just be that much MORE happy to see these fresh new mechanics explored. And, more importantly, characters from the kinds of games that I like playing.

I want to elaborate on that last point because the core of this is that I REALLY like rhythm games and puzzle games. People who REALLY like platformers and JRPGs are at no loss of characters they can appreciate firsthand in Smash. And they'll probably get more of it by the end of the pass. I am less fortunate as someone who indulges in weird niche genres and funny little games that nobody cares about. My tastes and interests feel underexplored in Smash - I can appreciate someone like Sephiroth and Banjo for what they are, and I think they're great additions! But I just don't have that much attachment to them beyond that surface-level appreciation.

Consider the wide variety of tastes that this community has under its umbrella and that someone's favorite kind of game is still missing. Whether that's me and puzzle games and rhythm games, or people who really love FPS games, or people who are all about VNs. And that wide pool of characters is just totally absent. So maybe it is about "representation" in a sense, but it's about what I LIKE being represented, not about fulfilling arbitrary genre quotas.

Also for what it's worth, I'm sure Nintendo and Sakurai did take genre diversity into account. Because DLC is supposed to cater to (sell to) a variety of audiences and not everyone enjoys one particular genre, so within are a spread of different kinds of games (Hero, Banjo, Terry, Steve...) to appeal to the widest spread of players possible.
 
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JCKirbs

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Yeah, pretty much..I mean, its definitely a big part of why we didn't get a Gen 3 Pokémon in the game since Gen 3 wasn't around for Melee and by the time Brawl rolled around it was already time for Gen 4.
Mhm, and if not for that we probably would've gotten someone like Sceptile as our first standalone Grass-type starter Pokemon. A shame, really.
 

ChunkySlugger72

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I would think Cloud would be "Mr. Playstation" not Crash and as someone that played CB, his games bored me. Well, Twinsanity was good though. I mean, if Crash gets in, I'll be happy for people that wanted him and will try him out myself if his moveset is fun but I'm sincerely baffled about the support for him when there are better reps from his same company.

Same with Rayman too now that I think about it. The swell behind him baffles me but unlike Crash and my like of twinsanity, all of Rayman's games were terrible.
Crash Bandicoot was viewed by the majority as the unofficial/de facto mascot of Sony's Playstation brand.

Not to mention Crash Bandicoot (1996) predates FF7/Cloud (1997)

Sony not just promoted his games, But used Crash Bandicoot to help promote the Playstation brand and other games in general, Pizza Hut commercials too.


Platformers, Kart Racers and Party Games.
Sound familiar? Crash Bandicoot was Sony's "Mario".
 

DevaAshera

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I wouldn’t mind seeing Saber, but I am in the minority in this forum that thinks that content from her base series does severely hurt her chances, aside from her generally being unknown to the west.

and yes JRPGs are big, and I acknowledge that. There’s also plenty of variation within the genre itself. I’m actually a huge supporter of 2B because I think she’s just more interesting looking then say, Lloyd or Adol (no offense to their fans) who I think share a lot of the same visual themes with a lot of the current Smash roster.

That’s fair, and most people probably share your vision. But there’s no shortage of good games to choose fighters from, so why not also try to diversify the genres a bit?
I don't think so, Fate left that content in the past ever since the updated version of Fate/stay night for the PS2 and eventually PC and PS Vita. Its now more of a footnote about it rather than what the series is now, especially when you consider that version isn't really for sale anymore. She's also not that unknown to the West, thanks to both Fate/Grand Order and the anime adaptions of Fate/stay night and Fate/Zero..though she is mistaken for an anime character due to that..though I'd argue she's more well known than some characters even in the West (its gotten pretty popular amongst anime fans) and especially in Japan considering Fate's popularity there.

I agree, not to mention 2B would be like a mixture of Sephiroth & Bayonetta, so she'd probably be very fun to play as.

Perhaps, though a lot of them that have been considered for Game of the Year contenders have been either Legacy Games (like Mario & Zelda) or JRPGs like NieR Automata and Persona 5..mostly, JRPGs have huge fanbases and would likely pull in more than other more niche genres, objectively speaking. Some genres may be harder to devise movesets for than others since I imagine a Rhythm Character would have to have a moveset based on attacking in a rhythmic way, but in a fast paced and frantic game like Smash, that could be hard to pull off.
Mhm, and if not for that we probably would've gotten someone like Sceptile as our first standalone Grass-type starter Pokemon. A shame, really.
Yeah, even if my Gen 3 pick would have been Gardevoir, it probably would have been one of the starters.

Brawl actually was gonna get a Gen 3 Pokemon in the form of Plusle and Minun, going by the "pra_mai" in the game files.
Debateably since we haven't exactly decided if that was the case or not due to discrepencies between them and other characters, like Popo & Nana being separate character files and Pokémon having their romanized names in the coding and not the phonetic ones.
 

Pillow

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I don't think so, Fate left that content in the past ever since the updated version of Fate/stay night for the PS2 and eventually PC and PS Vita. Its now more of a footnote about it rather than what the series is now, especially when you consider that version isn't really for sale anymore. She's also not that unknown to the West, thanks to both Fate/Grand Order and the anime adaptions of Fate/stay night and Fate/Zero..though she is mistaken for an anime character due to that..though I'd argue she's more well known than some characters even in the West (its gotten pretty popular amongst anime fans) and especially in Japan considering Fate's popularity there.

I agree, not to mention 2B would be like a mixture of Sephiroth & Bayonetta, so she'd probably be very fun to play as.

Perhaps, though a lot of them that have been considered for Game of the Year contenders have been either Legacy Games (like Mario & Zelda) or JRPGs like NieR Automata and Persona 5..mostly, JRPGs have huge fanbases and would likely pull in more than other more niche genres, objectively speaking. Some genres may be harder to devise movesets for than others since I imagine a Rhythm Character would have to have a moveset based on attacking in a rhythmic way, but in a fast paced and frantic game like Smash, that could be hard to pull off.

Yeah, even if my Gen 3 pick would have been Gardevoir, it probably would have been one of the starters.


Debateably since we haven't exactly decided if that was the case or not due to discrepencies between them and other characters, like Popo & Nana being separate character files and Pokémon having their romanized names in the coding and not the phonetic ones.
I wasn’t just referring to the sexual content from the original VN. I’ve already spoken my opinion about Sabers chances on this thread (you can find it on p 453 if you were interested). I’ll just add that she is unknown in the west, just she’s very well known within a very specific sector (weebs, basically)

And stuff like GOTY, imo is a pretty meaningless title. Being contender for the award shows that the game has mainstream appeal, of course. But many great games just lack the clout to be considered. Also, certain genres lack representation in smash for different reasons. FPS’s are massively popular, just not in Japan while a lot of puzzle games are the opposite.

Also for the record I don’t think moveset is ever an issue after we got really great moveset for **** like villager, wii fit, piranha plant, and Steve
 
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DevaAshera

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I wasn’t just referring to the sexual content from the original VN. I’ve already spoken my opinion about Sabers chances on this thread (you can find it on p 453 if you were interested). I’ll just add that she is unknown in the west, just she’s very well known within a very specific sector (weebs, basically)

And stuff like GOTY, imo is a pretty meaningless title. Being contender for the award shows that the game has mainstream appeal, of course. But many great games just lack the clout to be considered. Also, certain genres lack representation in smash for different reasons. FPS’s are massively popular, just not in Japan while a lot of puzzle games are the opposite.

Also for the record I don’t think moveset is ever an issue after we got really great moveset for **** like villager, wii fit, piranha plant, and Steve
There's a lot of crossover between Weebs and Smash Fans and I don't see any other issues with the origin game then. I don't think sexual undertones would keep someone out (see Bayonetta) and its still been downplayed a lot more in recent years. Being known more for anime in the West is also something Nintendo wouldn't likely take into consideration, nor would they likely care that she's from a mobile game considering Nintendo themselves are dipping their toes into that arena with various mobile games.

Indeed, but Sakurai tries to make each moveset ring true for the character and their origin in some fashion, so Sakurai would likely want Rhythm game characters to have some sort of rhythmic attack gimmick, which may be why a Rhythm Heaven rep was seemingly dropped form Smash 4. While it seems like those characters would be harder to make movesets for, it was probably fairly easy considering Villager's tools, Wii Fits yoga poses, the various Piranha Plants in Mario, and the tools of Steve, all of which could be more easily adapted to a fast paced, frantic game like Smash while sticking to a rhythm would be difficult to do. They toyed with it with Donkey Kong's old rhythm-based Final Smash using the DK Bongos to represent the Donkey Konga games, but ultimately dropped it for something faster paced.

I'll still argue that Puzzle Games do have a rep through Dr. Mario, even if he is both a clone of Mario and a Mario series rep.
 

Knight Dude

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Crash Bandicoot is bigger and more successful than any of the character/franchises you just mentioned.

- Jak & Daxter isn't gonna happen, Despite being also created by Naughty Dog, People aren't gonna waste their time rallying for someone who isn't likely at all to make the cut and the biggest obstacle is being owned by Sony who's likely not gonna play ball with Nintendo.

- Crash Bandicoot has always been the bigger and more successful franchise compared to Spyro the Dragon since their days with Sony/Universal Interactive back during the PS1 era, Despite both now currently owned by Activision, It's still the same old story.

Bottom Line: I like Spyro and all, But no way in hell does Activision choose Spyro before Crash for Smash.

- I don't know jack **** about Prince of Persia, But isn't that an Ubisoft property? Doesn't really have much to do with Crash, But chances are "If" Ubisoft gets a rep chances are it's gonna be their "Mascot" Rayman.

Crash Bandicoot checks off pretty much everything that many people are looking for in Smash Bros fighter and has very few weaknesses which is why he's viewed as a popular/obvious choice for Smash speculation.
Prince of Persia has some merit though. That series can be credited to starting the "cinematic" platformer with its rotoscoped animation on the NES. With games like Out of this World, Blackthorne and Flashback likely owing it some influence, due to the games having realistic jumps and climbing. The 3D era likely inspired games too with it's time rewinding shenanigans.

Not sure how much more financially successful Rayman is than it. But Rayman's main thing is that it was Ubisoft's biggest cash cow for a bit until AC took off like crazy?
 
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PSIGuy

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It's funny.
This is the 2nd time ever that I've been more interested in the stuff in the Sakurai Presents that isn't the character.
I'm personally wondering what the reach of the supporting content (Mii costumes, music, spirits) will be. I see it as a scale;
  1. Xenoblade 2 Only [with or without Torna]
  2. Numbered Xenoblade Only [with or without Future Connected]
  3. Xenoblade Series [ie 1, 2, X and the above]
  4. Xenoblade and Saga [possible but don't count on it]
  5. Xeno as a whole [never happening unless Squeenix's heart grew three sizes that day Sephy got in]
  6. Xenoblade and general Monolith Soft [more likely than above but still unlikely]
They generally don't represent titles that aren't actually playable, with only Terry and Joker as exceptions. Every other pack is pretty laser-focused on their character's 'origin' (to the point of there being no Diddy Kong Racing or Nuts and Bolts music for Banjo, no DQ music outside of two tracks per alt for Hero, etc). I'm guessing we'll see 2 on the scale, with Torna and FC music ("grass plains", "default battle" for use on Primordia, Lora's party and Kino + Nene spirits that use those tracks) and the rest will be XB2 stuff.
 

Peripuff

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I'll still argue that Puzzle Games do have a rep through Dr. Mario, even if he is both a clone of Mario and a Mario series rep.
I would have agreed with you if we had a Dr. Mario stage to showcase the puzzle aspect of his game but as it stands Dr. Mario simply does not showcase puzzle games in any sort of significant capacity. So while he is technically a puzzle rep I would hesitate to claim that it is actually enough to say that puzzle games do have representation in Smash. I'd argue that the Tetromino spirits are just as good puzzle representation tbh.
 
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Diddy Kong

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It's cute that you think Smash fans wouldn't crucify any JRPG character with spikey hair and a sword even if they cut the FE cast down to a single character.
Makes me kind of anxious about how Isaac would be received.
Brawl actually was gonna get a Gen 3 Pokemon in the form of Plusle and Minun, going by the "pra_mai" in the game files.
Nah we all know that was supposed to be Pyra and Mythra.
 
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BlondeLombax

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Makes me kind of anxious about how Isaac would be received.
I've been mulling about that for a while myself, especially since in more casual circles, I never necessarily see Isaac being discussed. I'm curious if he's genuinely popular or if people are just bandwagoning again. Honestly, you could say the same about a bunch of characters we've been talking about these past couple of years.
 

Shroob

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I've been mulling about that for a while myself, especially since in more casual circles, I never necessarily see Isaac being discussed. I'm curious if he's genuinely popular or if people are just bandwagoning again. Honestly, you could say the same about a bunch of characters we've been talking about these past couple of years.
I feel like Isaac would be popular with the absolute die hard speculators, and people who really do like Golden Sun.

....but this late into the Pass and Ultimate's life? I have my doubts he'd be as warmly welcomed as hoped.
 
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