Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Evil Trapezium]

Honestly, that's kinda why I doubt them.

Yeah, I doubt the Monster Hunter.

You doubt the Monster Hunter?

 

[JOJONumber691]

Something I'd like to say regarding the statement about monsters being the real focus of the series is that it was over a decade ago. Until we dig up any recent comments on the matter, we have no idea how much it holds up nowadays. As such, I'm not taking that quote into account until further notice.

After Marvel Infinite, I'm thinking they're probably in worse position than they were a Decade ago.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I think there's also the fact that most of FP2 seems to be kinda the "redemption pack".

I.E Going back and giving ARMS and XB2 characters, stages, music, etc and going back and fixing Final Fantasy's complete lack of representation in the base game. Right now the only entirely new IP to Smash on the pass is Minecraft (which had been in the cards for like five years it seems), with the other characters really just more finishing the job with their respective franchises, so naturally people think they'll do the same with MH, going back and adding a character, a stage, spirits, etc after how only the base game had Rathalos as a boss/AT.

Yeah, I don't believe that " second chance" theory either. In my personal opinion, all theory's are absolute bull****

 

[Louie G.]

I still believe Crash is more likely than anyone purely based on his past immense success. He was even considered for Melee before it even had a name.

I keep seeing people cite this poll as saying Crash was "considered", but... he has four votes. Doraemon has 7 and Chocobo has more than double. Of course yes, he outdid Sonic and Mega Man who would become playable later. Bomberman also outdid the both of them and got one vote more than Crash. This poll is all over the place, especially for the third parties and reeks of a time where the rules were still being written.

But the point is I don't think people should be using a measly four votes as a legitimate metric for anyone's popularity or success. Crash has less votes than Poo, Marill, a Goomba and Geno / Mallow. I have a hard time believing any of those characters were seriously considered for Melee at the time. It's a cool little look into where people's focus may have been at the time, which is to say it should be clear that focus was largely not directed toward third parties.

Not to say I'm discounting any of Crash's other accomplishments, I just don't think people should bother bringing this one up.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Another benefit Monster Hunter has in terms of speculation is that the only other Capcom franchise that has sold more than it has already been spirited away.

 

[Pillow]

So I have a question for you guys: What two characters do you think would please the greatest amount of people if they were revealed as the last two characters? As in, most of the Smash fanbase would be rejoicing and people would be happy or at least okay with them even if they weren't the characters they wanted. I would say Crash and Dante but I really don't know to be honest. What do you all think? (and what two characters would make YOU the most happy, no matter how far-fetched or unrealistic?)

Crash Bandicoot + Master Chief probably? Sora is up there too, but since I think a lot of JRPG fans have been placated in general by FP 1+2, these would make the most people happy globally.

As for my personal taste, my #1 most wanted is Phoenix Wright and my #2 is Kiryu Kazuma. But if I can get a pair together I'd prefer a massive Japanese shill pick + massive Western pick together since I like the contrast, so I'll go with any 2 of (Reimu Hakurei, Hatsune Miku, or Haruka Amami + Master Chief / Doomslayer)

 

[Wunderwaft]

It's a combination of **** netcode, a horrifically handled release (Japan and SE Asia get it, then America gets it, then there's the Steam port and then there's the European release but half of this wasn't communicated properly and they did a lot of undercutting of their partners) and the pandemic

Pretty much, I remember waiting for them to reveal when the PC port would release and then a month passes and the game is suddenly put on Steam without properly telling us beforehand. It doesn't help that they made it so you can redeem your copy ID of VS for tons of rewards and gifts in the OG Granblue.....but only in the PS4 version, Steam didn't get it for some reason. It's as if they tried their damn hardest to tell everyone "HEY GO BUY THE PS4 VERSION", it sucks because the game's PC playerbase declined quite badly and it's harder to find any matches now.

This of course wouldn't be a problem if Crossplay becomes a big thing and fighting games actually embrace this instead of splitting their playerbase.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think there's also the fact that most of FP2 seems to be kinda the "redemption pack".

I.E Going back and giving ARMS and XB2 characters, stages, music, etc and going back and fixing Final Fantasy's complete lack of representation in the base game. Right now the only entirely new IP to Smash on the pass is Minecraft (which had been in the cards for like five years it seems), with the other characters really just more finishing the job with their respective franchises, so naturally people think they'll do the same with MH, going back and adding a character, a stage, spirits, etc after how only the base game had Rathalos as a boss/AT.

What if that was all the content MH was ever intended to get from the first place? We know XC2 and ARMS characters were considered for the base game but missed out due to timing, but nothing like that has been confirmed for Monster Hunter.

 

[JOJONumber691]

What if that was all the content MH was ever intended to get from the first place? We know XC2 and ARMS characters were considered for the base game but missed out due to timing, but nothing like that has been confirmed for Monster Hunter.

There's Unused Data suggesting there was more content planned that was Cut. Considering development overlapped with Marvel Infinite flopping, I wouldn't be surprised if Hunter was planned for Ultimate, but had to be cut because of Infinite flopping, thus getting them banned from Smash by the Monster Hunter Devs. Surprised we didn't get a Stage with that playlist though.

 

[SharkLord]

What if that was all the content MH was ever intended to get from the first place? We know XC2 and ARMS characters were considered for the base game but missed out due to timing, but nothing like that has been confirmed for Monster Hunter.

I think we've gone through all the Second Chance Theory characters we have hard proof on. Now we're just guessing, to see if anyone could potentially fit in. MH is the most common topic, but we still don't have any concrete evidence.

 

[SpecterFlower]

There's Unused Data suggesting there was more content planned that was Cut. Considering development overlapped with Marvel Infinite flopping, I wouldn't be surprised if Hunter was planned for Ultimate, but had to be cut because of Infinite flopping, thus getting them banned from Smash by the Monster Hunter Devs. Surprised we didn't get a Stage with that playlist though.

that's a really dumb take, they wouldn't cut a character from smash because a bad game had them the character in it. i get they don't want to do it, but as we've seen smash is a special case.

 

[Louie G.]

So I have a question for you guys: What two characters do you think would please the greatest amount of people if they were revealed as the last two characters?

Honestly, Monster Hunter and Crash Bandicoot is probably the safest lineup you could possibly have.

Monster Hunter for the Japanese audience and Crash for the western audience, both pretty much universally accepted and appreciated in their respective regions and bringing with them undeniable significance and history. It's far from what I personally want, and to be honest I'd be a bit underwhelmed by this outcome, but I think it would have the greatest success on a worldwide scale.

We know XC2 and ARMS characters were considered for the base game but missed out due to timing, but nothing like that has been confirmed for Monster Hunter.

To be fair, while nothing has been confirmed it does feel odd that Monster Hunter's music data is lumped in with the playable franchises and scrapped Monster Hunter Gen Ult spirits. Nothing absolute but certainly more of a precedent than any other character I can think of, on top of the significant role it received in WOL without additional content blah blah blah. I think it's safe to say if nothing else there was consideration for more MH content of some kind.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The remaining characters could also just fit into the Steve model of negotiations taking a while and/or a development time to figure out how to best utilize their mechanics in Smash.

 

[Dinoman96]

tbh I think Master Chief would be kinda like Joker and Cloud in that while obviously he'd be a big deal (especially for the western fanbase), I think his inclusion would also be somewhat controversial that he's a character with not much of a real history with Nintendo.

I just remember some snooty Nintendo purists raising their fists at Joker and Cloud and yelling about how "Playstation characters" got in before Nintendo characters or other third parties with a closer association with Nintendo. I imagine it'd be the same with Chief, probably more so considering that Halo's always been an Xbox exclusive IP with obviously no appearances on other systems outside of like, cameos in Minecraft and Fortnite.

 

[Ivander]

I've wondered for a while now why people assume Sony wouldn't allow any of their characters in Smash. Sure, it hasn't happened yet, but if Nintendo came to them asking for Aloy or Kratos or something, is there real precedent suggesting Sony would shoot them down? Or does everyone just assume they're as protective of their IP as Nintendo is? Because frankly, that's pretty dang hard to do

I assumed Sony would be just as stingy as Nintendo. But then Kratos was not only allowed in Fortnite, but also allowed on the Switch version. So honestly, I'm not sure how Sony would react to having one of their characters asked for Smash Bros.

And I'd be really curious on who Nintendo would want to get from Sony.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think we've gone through all the Second Chance Theory characters we have hard proof on. Now we're just guessing, to see if anyone could potentially fit in. MH is the most common topic, but we still don't have any concrete evidence.

This is off-topic, but a character I can see coming with those MH costumes is Chun-Li.

 

[jadetheseer]

There's Unused Data suggesting there was more content planned that was Cut. Considering development overlapped with Marvel Infinite flopping, I wouldn't be surprised if Hunter was planned for Ultimate, but had to be cut because of Infinite flopping, thus getting them banned from Smash by the Monster Hunter Devs. Surprised we didn't get a Stage with that playlist though.

Wasn’t there a leak while back saying that Monster Hunter was planned to be the last DLC of FP1 but CAPCOM pulled out and they were replaced with Byleth? I can sorta see it, to be honest. Also, I think it’s hilarious that we all call the character Monster Hunter, it reminds me of ppl calling Samus Metroid though I guess they don’t have another name.

 

[Pillow]

I think we've gone through all the Second Chance Theory characters we have hard proof on. Now we're just guessing, to see if anyone could potentially fit in. MH is the most common topic, but we still don't have any concrete evidence.

The thing about "second chance" is that it's predicated on the fact that ARMS and Xenoblade missed the timing for base game, and that rumors of Steve started from way before he was released. In this way, it makes a lot of sense. But the only rumors about MonHun specifically, is that Byleth replaced them. Personally, I don't really believe this rumor, but either either way there's not much to indicate Monster Hunter's consideration for the base game unless unless you consider the Byleth rumor to be true, or think they didn't get in because Rathalos did. In either scenario, another character was chosen in place of them, which doesn't look great for their chances in accordance with this theory.

Wasn’t there a leak while back saying that Monster Hunter was planned to be the last DLC of FP1 but CAPCOM pulled out and they were replaced with Byleth? I can sorta see it, to be honest. Also, I think it’s hilarious that we all call the character Monster Hunter, it reminds me of ppl calling Samus Metroid though I guess they don’t have another name.

We have **** like "Hero" "Villager" and "Inkling". Monster Hunter is a fine name for a Smash character.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Wasn’t there a leak while back saying that Monster Hunter was planned to be the last DLC of FP1 but CAPCOM pulled out and they were replaced with Byleth? I can sorta see it, to be honest. Also, I think it’s hilarious that we all call the character Monster Hunter, it reminds me of ppl calling Samus Metroid though I guess they don’t have another name.

Those rumours are clearly false.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Man I didn't like Xenoblade 1 at all but I still want to try X2. Damn Smash effect....

They are pretty different games.

• Xenoblade Chronicles has an amazingly crafted story based on the world, and how the main party is reacting to the state of it. It's pretty one of a kind.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 2 wears its anime tropes on its sleeve. Some of them are well done (hot springs scene), others are just...why? (Sleepwalking Mythra scene & nearly everything* to do with Torra's maid kink) Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has an absolutely amazing main cast though, and aside from Dromarch doing absolutely nothing and Torra's arc being terribly executed (because of course it was), they all have great moments.
• Xenoblade Chronicles's combat focuses on various things from character to character. They all have their own gimmick, and you have to determine what's good based on that. The one major link between all characters, is the visions that you'll get, and you'll have to respond accordingly or die.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 2's combat is both deeper, and easier to understand, provided you look to an external source because the tutorial is hot garbage. You'll mainly be focusing on driver and Blade combos, which mostly deal with party composition, and unlike in Xenoblade Chronicles, every character has the potential to synergize with the rest of them in that respect.
  • I will note that the battle system will feel super sluggish before you can cancel Driver Arts into other Driver Arts. Make that the first thing you go for on a character's skill tree. Also, Arts Recharging Pouch Items. Use them. You'll thank me later.

*I say nearly everything because while the Blushy Crushy Heart to Heart is a nat 1 scene for Torra, it's a nat 20 scene for Pyra, and I imagine that's why some people love it.

 

[Arcanir]

There's Unused Data suggesting there was more content planned that was Cut. Considering development overlapped with Marvel Infinite flopping, I wouldn't be surprised if Hunter was planned for Ultimate, but had to be cut because of Infinite flopping, thus getting them banned from Smash by the Monster Hunter Devs. Surprised we didn't get a Stage with that playlist though.

That's... Very unlikely. MvCI came out in September 2017, a little over a year from Ultimate's release, at that point if a character was planned then they probably already had done some development on them at the time since Third Parties would take priority. Scrapping all of that would've amounted to completely wasted development and even if the MH team was disappointed with how they turned out in Infinite, I doubt they'd be so angry they'd force Sakurai to throw out all of that work.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

tbh I think Master Chief would be kinda like Joker and Cloud in that while obviously he'd be a big deal (especially for the western fanbase), I think his inclusion would also be somewhat controversial that he's a character with not much of a real history with Nintendo.

I just remember some snooty Nintendo purists raising their fists at Joker and Cloud and yelling about how "Playstation characters" got in before Nintendo characters or other third parties with a closer association with Nintendo. I imagine it'd be the same with Chief, probably more so considering that Halo's always been an Xbox exclusive IP with obviously no appearances on other systems outside of like, cameos in Minecraft and Fortnite.

Sakurai agrees to have Master Chief in, but only if Nintendo completes and releases Halo DS.

Nintendo Exec: But that system's been dead for 10 years.
Sakurai: Do you want the fighter or not?
Nintendo Exec: ...Yes sir.

 

[Flyboy]

I am fully conveninced that the only reason why people think a MH character is happening is only because of the game coming out next month

Well you've fully-convinced yourself wrong. lol.

When you look at this pass from the perspective of shoring up existing content and the fact that we've yet to get any content from Capcom this pass, plus the series' popularity in general, it's a pick that makes sense and would sell while also satisfying those criteria. I don't think they're a lock or anything, just something to watch, especially if we don't get the missing Monster Hunter Mii armors with Pythra.

 

[SharkLord]

Alright, game time.

What characters do you think could fit in with Second Chance Theory, and why? We don't have anything solid go off of anymore (That we know of, at least), but I want to document a definitive list of potential options. Thinking of starting up a thread for this stuff. Also note that I don't think everyone on the list would be the only options; It's mostly for fun (And because I have nothing better to do with my time, apparently).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

After Marvel Infinite, I'm thinking they're probably in worse position than they were a Decade ago.

No they're not. Not for that reason anyway. Monster Hunter was widely regarded as one of the best parts of the game. The game flopping would not bring the devs to the conclusion that Monster Hunter in crossovers = bad. It's also ignoring that the Monster Hunter has crossed over in other things as well.

 

[JOJONumber691]

that's a really dumb take, they wouldn't cut a character from smash because a bad game had them the character in it.

If you're the Monster Hunter Devs, already on the fence about a Hunter being added to a Crossover, you'd probably force your ways since if one of the legal parties doesn't want you in, you can't put them in. After Marvel Infinite, I could 100% see that happening behind the scenes considering they were on the fence. I'd be excited if a Monster Hunter happened, just can't see it after Marvel Infinite

 

[Perkilator]

No they're not. Not for that reason anyway. Monster Hunter was widely regarded as one of the best parts of the game. The game flopping would not bring the devs to the conclusion that Monster Hunter in crossovers = bad. It's also ignoring that the Monster Hunter has crossed over in other things as well.

And also ignoring the MvCI flopped because of Disney micromanaging the game.

 

[Louie G.]

The remaining characters could also just fit into the Steve model of negotiations taking a while and/or a development time to figure out how to best utilize their mechanics in Smash.

This is my personal theory about Monster Hunter - it dips a bit into tinfoil hat territory but I think there's enough reason to think it's possible.

If we take into account the various rumors about the MH devs being particular in the way they like the series to be represented in crossovers, one that I don't entirely believe but will give the benefit of the doubt for in this context, it's possible that they simply couldn't work out something that both parties would be happy with in time for release and shifted toward other priorities while putting SOMETHING there in the meantime. It's better than nothing if they wouldn't be able to get around to it or couldn't make it work in the end.

I don't know if that's what happened with Steve or anything, but considering that Minecraft content was rumored as far back as base game and seeing how specialized and complex Steve's implementation has been, I suppose it isn't impossible that something similar could have played out.

Rathalos is a major part of the series that carries it well on its own, but more significantly a factor of series representation that could not be properly implemented through DLC. If there were further plans for MH later on, the least you could do is toss Rathalos in there because it's really the only chance they had to add a full on boss battle and fulfill that element of the series in its most complete form (seeing how the series is all about taking on giant boss monsters).

And then yknow, add a character and a stage later on because you can. There's no deadline for those but there is for a boss battle / AT and there is for World of Light.

If you're the Monster Hunter Devs, already on the fence about a Hunter being added to a Crossover, you'd probably force your ways since if one of the legal parties doesn't want you in, you can't put them in. After Marvel Infinite, I could 100% see that happening behind the scenes considering they were on the fence. I'd be excited if a Monster Hunter happened, just can't see it after Marvel Infinite

Daily reminder that any statements about the devs being "unhappy with MH's portrayal in Infinite" are completely unsubstantiated and likely false.

 

[cashregister9]

Alright, game time.

What characters do you think could fit in with Second Chance Theory, and why? We don't have anything solid go off of anymore (That we know of, at least), but I want to document a definitive list of potential options. Thinking of starting up a thread for this stuff. Also note that I don't think everyone on the list would be the only options; It's mostly for fun (And because I have nothing better to do with my time, apparently).

This one is entirely tinfoil based

Maybe a Granblue rep can get in and the Granblue info that hitagi had was not mistaken.

This is just be part of my plan to get Parade's Lust in smash, but it could actually be a theory of some sort.

 

[SharkLord]

This one is entirely tinfoil based

Maybe a Granblue rep can get in and whatever leaker had the Granblue info was not mistaken.

This is just be part of my plan to get Parade's Lust in smash, but it could actually be a theory of some sort.

Hmm... Going to need elaboration on this rumor. What was it about, when was it, and how credible was this "leaker?"

 

[jadetheseer]

Alright, game time.

What characters do you think could fit in with Second Chance Theory, and why? We don't have anything solid go off of anymore (That we know of, at least), but I want to document a definitive list of potential options. Thinking of starting up a thread for this stuff. Also note that I don't think everyone on the list would be the only options; It's mostly for fun (And because I have nothing better to do with my time, apparently).

I’m not entirely sure what this theory is, is it just characters that should’ve been in the game (min min and pyra) and characters who add more content from a series that needs it (sephi)?

If so, I think Dr. Eggman would be a good fit to add more Sonic content. There’s a lot of Sonic music that should be in but is missing (Chemical Plant, Ice Cap, Pumpkin Hill, Stardust Speedway, etc.) and it’d be nice to have a stage that isn’t Green Hill Zone and Green Hill Zone HD. As for characters that should’ve been in the game? Uh....Paper Mario? Another Zelda rep?

 

[cashregister9]

Hmm... Going to need elaboration on this rumor. What was it about, when was it, and how credible was this "leaker?"

Hitagi, the leaker I think was close with Vergeben's source, and they mentioned something about Katalina, a character in Granblue, appearing in Smash bros. or a fighting game of some sort. Granblue versus was announced soon after, so That was almost certainly what they were talking about and my theory is entirely crack fueled with no basis.

 

[Lamperouge]

Yeah, I don't believe that " second chance" theory either. In my personal opinion, all theory's are absolute bull****

Fire Theory is 4/6 right now, tho.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The funny thing is if not for Bomberman's Mii Costume upgrade, I'd probably be considering him in possible second chance & assist trophy upgrade territory.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I’m not entirely sure what this theory is, is it just characters that should’ve been in the game (min min and pyra) and characters who add more content from a series that needs it (sephi)?

If so, I think Dr. Eggman would be a good fit to add more Sonic content. There’s a lot of Sonic music that should be in but is missing (Chemical Plant, Ice Cap, Pumpkin Hill, Stardust Speedway, etc.) and it’d be nice to have a stage that isn’t Green Hill Zone and Green Hill Zone HD. As for characters that should’ve been in the game? Uh....Paper Mario? Another Zelda rep?

The idea is since we know or have heavy suspicion that tons of characters were considered or scrapped for base game (ie an XC2 rep, Minecraft, ARMS, Sephiroth, ect.), what other characters may have been considered in that way?

 

[Pillow]

Alright, game time.

What characters do you think could fit in with Second Chance Theory, and why? We don't have anything solid go off of anymore (That we know of, at least), but I want to document a definitive list of potential options. Thinking of starting up a thread for this stuff. Also note that I don't think everyone on the list would be the only options; It's mostly for fun (And because I have nothing better to do with my time, apparently).

Hrmmm...the only characters that we know to be considered or were rumored to be considered are Alucard (confirmed by Sakurai) and Chun Li / Tales rep (Chun-Leak). They could choose another Castlevania character I suppose, but it's more likely that the Belmonts were chosen in place of Alucard as the sole Castlevania rep, similar to how Incineroar was chosen over another Gen 7th Pokemon. These sorts of characters likely wouldn't get a second chance as DLC. I don't personally believe in the Chun-Leak, so yeah.

We also have other characters we know were considered for previous Smash entries like Ayumi Tachibana but...as we saw with the recent murder of Geno, I doubt previous consideration means much at all.

This one is entirely tinfoil based

Maybe a Granblue rep can get in and whatever leaker had the Granblue info was not mistaken.

This is just be part of my plan to get Parade's Lust in smash, but it could actually be a theory of some sort.

The hilarious thing about this leak to me was, I hard dismissed it back then because it was Katalina, and I thought why would they ever choose Katalina over Gran/Female Gran? Then Min-Min and Pyra came out and now I'm not so sure.

If we do get a Granblue character though I really hope it's not Katalina. She's literally just another footsies swordy like Marth. There's plenty of other interesting characters they could pick from.

 

[SharkLord]

I’m not entirely sure what this theory is, is it just characters that should’ve been in the game (min min and pyra) and characters who add more content from a series that needs it (sephi)?

If so, I think Dr. Eggman would be a good fit to add more Sonic content. There’s a lot of Sonic music that should be in but is missing (Chemical Plant, Ice Cap, Pumpkin Hill, Stardust Speedway, etc.) and it’d be nice to have a stage that isn’t Green Hill Zone and Green Hill Zone HD. As for characters that should’ve been in the game? Uh....Paper Mario? Another Zelda rep?

Second Chance Theory is less about what could they bring and about what could've happened in the base game. ARMS and XC2 released too late, and Steve took five years to negotiate. We don't know if Sephiroth 100% fits under that theory, but Final Fantasy had infamously sparse representation, and there's been some speculation on what led to the FF situation.

 

[JOJONumber691]

The idea is since we know or have heavy suspicion that tons of characters were considered or scrapped for base game (ie an XC2 rep, Minecraft, ARMS, Sephiroth, ect.), what other characters may have been considered in that way?

Honestly, Ryu Hayabusa's Negotiations have probably been going on for so long that he'd probably fall into the theory as well.

 

[Otoad64]

Alright, game time.

What characters do you think could fit in with Second Chance Theory, and why? We don't have anything solid go off of anymore (That we know of, at least), but I want to document a definitive list of potential options. Thinking of starting up a thread for this stuff. Also note that I don't think everyone on the list would be the only options; It's mostly for fun (And because I have nothing better to do with my time, apparently).

maybe Porky?

there's no spirit for him so maybe it was being saved for a fighter spirit.

 

[Pillow]

Honestly, Ryu Hayabusa's Negotiations have probably been going on for so long that he'd probably fall into the theory as well.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?