Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I had no idea who Mega Man was until his name started popping up in the days of Brawl speculation.

I also had no idea who Richter or Joker were when they were revealed, and no idea who Terry was until the SNK leak.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, even though I had never played a single FF game in my life at the time, I instantly recognized the song in Cloud's trailer and proceeded to lose my **** because Cloud is a mythical figure of gaming.

Funny thing is I knew almost all who all were due to speculation(cause I did the research fast) or they were pretty easy to recognize. I had the advantage of growing up with the NES when I was about 3, so that gave me lots of leeway.

Fire Emblem in general I did not know about otherwise. It didn't take me long to know some characters. Ike is the only one I directly knew of(not just learned of like Bayonetta, all other FE, among others). I literally knew of the entire Smash 64 cast, with only barely remembering Metroid at best. But when you've played lots of F-Zero, EarthBound... it's not that hard. Though for a weirder one, you'd think my favorite game series, Quest, I'd have known about immediately, right? Nope! I actually learned of it at least 6 months later, and didn't own the game till past the 2000's. And now I own all 9 games, do a lot more with it, etc.

It's crazy how experience can differ~

...I had no idea who Steve was until people memed about him getting in Smash, circa the ballot era.

I meant offline, my bad.

But yeah, exactly my point.

 

[Nekoo]

The only thing I'm hesitant about this proposition is that since Directs are back, I really doubt they're going to do standable Sakurai Presents reveals anymore, and those will be saved for character gameplay, Mii costumes and release dates.

May feels a little too soon for another full-blown Direct, while June feels like it'd be that sweet spot to cover their summer and fall releases.

To add to that, the only way I see a Sakurai Presents is if we get a "Final Smash presentation" a la Smash 4 and what was supposed to be the Final FP presentation with Byleth.
Like,a full fledged hour/hour and half presentation where we get FP 10/11 to fully close Smash ultimate with maybe one surprise and basta

 

[Shroob]

Funny thing is I knew almost all who all were due to speculation(cause I did the research fast) or they were pretty easy to recognize. I had the advantage of growing up with the NES when I was about 3, so that gave me lots of leeway.

Fire Emblem in general I did not know about otherwise. It didn't take me long to know some characters. Ike is the only one I directly knew of(not just learned of like Bayonetta, all other FE, among others). I literally knew of the entire Smash 64 cast, with only barely remembering Metroid at best. But when you've played lots of F-Zero, EarthBound... it's not that hard. Though for a weirder one, you'd think my favorite game series, Quest, I'd have known about immediately, right? Nope! I actually learned of it at least 6 months later, and didn't own the game till past the 2000's. And now I own all 9 games, do a lot more with it, etc.

It's crazy how experience can differ~


I meant offline, my bad.

But yeah, exactly my point.

As a certified Internet boomer, seeing Richter in Smash made me almost die laughing


Only to realize how many people didn't know who he was.


Damn kids, how do you not know one of the most meme'd lines in a video game of all time?!

 

[RileyXY1]

I guess the one main difference there is that Hero/Banjo were revealed early on in the pass, wheras we're now down to the last two characters.

Unless they also announce FP3 or something, revealing the last two characters in the same Direct would effectively end all Smash speculation/hype right then and there.

Yeah. I don't expect FP2 to end by E3 unless they announce FP3 or some other form of post-FP2 DLC.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

only one pic.twitter.com/gHkZbmKsqE

— NinN (@NinNakajima) February 17, 2021

You must choose
But choose wisely

I will pick Phoenix Wright in a heartbeat over Monster Hunter.

unless they announce FP3 or some other form of post-FP2 DLC.

I sure as hell hope so. This rollercoaster ride needs to continue.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I sure as hell hope so. This rollercoaster ride needs to continue.

Chaotic_Good.png

but same tbh, more chances!

 

[SKX31]

Didn’t that investor report talk about potentially extending the Switch’s lifespan? Smash 4’s dlc ended rather early cuz 1. Dual development, and 2. Wii U was practically DOA

I sure as hell hope so. This rollercoaster ride needs to continue.

This entire conversation makes me feel like any FP3 talks Nintendo, Bamco and Sakurai might have come roughly down to this:

Furukawa (Nintendo's president): 'Sup, Harada, we've been thinking about extending Ultimate's lifespan alongside the Switch with a cool new FP3! How about it?"
Harada: "Sounds like money- I mean, why not. What about you Sakurai-san?"
Sakurai (internally): " あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ あ !"

(Yes, that's A in hiragana.)

 

[Mamboo07]

only one pic.twitter.com/gHkZbmKsqE

— NinN (@NinNakajima) February 17, 2021

You must choose
But choose wisely

The guy who says objection.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The only thing I'm hesitant about this proposition is that since Directs are back, I really doubt they're going to do standable Sakurai Presents reveals anymore, and those will be saved for character gameplay, Mii costumes and release dates.

May feels a little too soon for another full-blown Direct, while June feels like it'd be that sweet spot to cover their summer and fall releases.

I mean Smash reveals have never been irrevocably tied to Directs. Even back in Smash 4 Robin wasn’t revealed in a Direct, Greninja and most of the vets had their own Direct, and so did Corrin and Bayonetta.

If a character is finished by May I don’t think they’ll wait till June to reveal them.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Though for a weirder one, you'd think my favorite game series, Quest, I'd have known about immediately, right? Nope! I actually learned of it at least 6 months later, and didn't own the game till past the 2000's. And now I own all 9 games, do a lot more with it, etc.

It's crazy how experience can differ~

Here's an even weirder one. I only knew four of my mains before maining them, one of which was... Mr. Game & Watch.

Strange world.

Damn kids, how do you not know one of the most meme'd lines in a video game of all time?!

I knew the line from memes but didn't know Richard, never played the game, never questioned where the meme came from.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I don’t think Nintendo will be at E3 this year. As a matter of fact the only reason they were “at” E3 for the past 5 or so years was so they could have a physical presence and make their booths like Disneyland. But E3 is all Digital this year so that’s no longer necessary.

There’s nothing stopping Nintendo from presenting a new character in May skipping June entirely and then finishing off the pass in August/September. It would adhere to the 2 month Schedule they’ve had going since Steve as well. Which seems much more likely to me since I doubt anyone is really going to be on board with E3 this year considering E3’s price proposal for being involved is ridiculous at best and highway robbery at worst.

Another factor to take into account is if this pass was originally meant to end earlier than we thought but only got delayed due to COVID. The first pass had 5 characters and took around a year before the last character was revealed and this pass only had one additional pack. This factor would mean the difference in terms of whether or not there was ever meant to be a “E3 2021 caliber” character. For all we know, the original plan might have been to finish this pass by late May.

 

[Shroob]

I mean Smash reveals have never been irrevocably tied to Directs. Even back in Smash 4 Robin wasn’t revealed in a Direct, Greninja and most of the vets had their own Direct, and so did Corrin and Bayonetta.

If a character is finished by May I don’t think they’ll wait till June to reveal them.

I really don't feel like bringing up Robin's reveal is, or has even been, a good indicator as to "Well, they don't HAVE to be tied to Directs!". Robin's reveal has always felt like a one-off occurrence, that they have not done for what, 7 years now?

Byleth, Joker, Steve and Sephiroth were our only DLC characters not tied to Directs, with an asterisk next to Min Min since she was kinda revealed.

Joker and Sephiroth were revealed at TGA.

So that leaves Byleth and Steve, which, for all intents and purposes, were revealed in a more or less period where Directs were put on the backburner. We had the Mini in March, yes, but for all of 2020, that was it.


With Directs back in full force, the only way I see us getting a Sakurai Presents reveal again is more or less a "Final Presentation!" type deal like with Smash 4.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As a certified Internet boomer, seeing Richter in Smash made me almost die laughing


Only to realize how many people didn't know who he was.


Damn kids, how do you not know one of the most meme'd lines in a video game of all time?!

I didn't know of him. Totally knew of Simon, though. Memes I know details of somewhat, but not the characters behind 'em so much...

Here's an even weirder one. I only knew four of my mains before maining them, one of which was... Mr. Game & Watch.

Strange world.

I knew of him and R.O.B., but Mario Kart DS helped the latter a little. Game & Watch is a big enough thing for a Nintendo player, so. Maybe people might not recognize him outside of Smash lately, but at one point, well, easy to know of. It helps that he's a pretty easy design to get~

 

[SWSU]

With Directs back in full force, the only way I see us getting a Sakurai Presents reveal again is more or less a "Final Presentation!" type deal like with Smash 4.

To be fair. We've had one. I wouldnt exactly call this "Back in Full Force"

 

[Shroob]

To be fair. We've had one. I wouldnt exactly call this "Back in Full Force"

You're not wrong, but I also don't feel like they're going to hype up "The return of Directs!" as much as they did, and only deliver one, especially since they made it clear that this Direct was covering the early releases for the year, not much else.

 

[7NATOR]

Considering that there's a good variety of weapons in Xenoblade 2, I wouldn't be surprised if it involved all sorts of weapons instead of just swords. So in a way, it would be a bit similar to Steve's tournament (he used "tools" as his theme).

Steve's Tournament I believe did not have many Sword users in it surprisingly. That's why I expect a Tournament based around Bladed wielders


---------------------------------

Regarding The Next 2 Fighters, I have some thoughts

-To be honest, Considering that Steve, Sephiroth, and Pyra/Mythra were heavily requested characters in Japan, I'm not so sure there's much of a need for an Eastern Pick, Not to say that none of the 2 characters will appeal to Japan, but just that I wouldn't be surprised if the Next 2 Fighters leaned more into the Western Hemisphere, or like Steve, just appealed to every one

-Even if Nintendo don't go to E3, they still might want to have some type of Summer Direct, around June or so, so they might save the reveal of the character(s) then. If they have a Direct in May, then it be in May also

-I think the Mii Costumes and and DLC tournament for Pyra/Mythra will tell us things about who the Next Characters might be

-I don't think Nintendo will try to delay the characters just for no reason. If Both of the next characters were ready by Summer, I don't think they will delay into the Fall one of them. Keep in Mind Nintendo is paying Sakurai and the Smash Team, and I'm sure they don't want to have them sit on characters, there by paying them for doing nothing. When the next 2 characters are done, Development is finished (for now)

-I think the next Background colors will be a shade of Purple, and a Shade of Red

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Steve's Tournament I believe did not have many Sword users in it surprisingly. That's why I expect a Tournament based around Bladed wielders


---------------------------------

Regarding The Next 2 Fighters, I have some thoughts

-To be honest, Considering that Steve, Sephiroth, and Pyra/Mythra were heavily requested characters in Japan, I'm not so sure there's much of a need for an Eastern Pick, Not to say that none of the 2 characters will appeal to Japan, but just that I wouldn't be surprised if the Next 2 Fighters leaned more into the Western Hemisphere, or like Steve, just appealed to every one

-Even if Nintendo don't go to E3, they still might want to have some type of Summer Direct, around June or so, so they might save the reveal of the character(s) then. If they have a Direct in May, then it be in May also

-I think the Mii Costumes and and DLC tournament for Pyra/Mythra will tell us things about who the Next Characters might be

-I don't think Nintendo will try to delay the characters just for no reason. If Both of the next characters were ready by Summer, I don't think they will delay into the Fall one of them. Keep in Mind Nintendo is paying Sakurai and the Smash Team, and I'm sure they don't want to have them sit on characters, there by paying them for doing nothing. When the next 2 characters are done, Development is finished (for now)

-I think the next Background colors will be a shade of Purple, and a Shade of Red

You think they’d go back later?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I really don't feel like bringing up Robin's reveal is, or has even been, a good indicator as to "Well, they don't HAVE to be tied to Directs!". Robin's reveal has always felt like a one-off occurrence, that they have not done for what, 7 years now?

Byleth, Joker, Steve and Sephiroth were our only DLC characters not tied to Directs, with an asterisk next to Min Min since she was kinda revealed.

Joker and Sephiroth were revealed at TGA.

So that leaves Byleth and Steve, which, for all intents and purposes, were revealed in a more or less period where Directs were put on the backburner. We had the Mini in March, yes, but for all of 2020, that was it.


With Directs back in full force, the only way I see us getting a Sakurai Presents reveal again is more or less a "Final Presentation!" type deal like with Smash 4.

I agree with your point, but I just want to add that Shulk was also announced like Robin in a standalone video. But yeah I doubt they would go that way for one of the last 2 fighters.

 

[Shroob]

I agree with your point, but I just want to add that Shulk was also announced like Robin in a standalone video. But yeah I doubt they would go that way for one of the last 2 fighters.

Wasn't Shulk announced in a Japan-exclusive Direct?

Which was then announced in a standalone for the West?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Wasn't Shulk announced in a Japan-exclusive Direct?

Which was then announced in a standalone for the West?

Yes, that Japan only direct revealed Xenoblade 3D

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I really don't feel like bringing up Robin's reveal is, or has even been, a good indicator as to "Well, they don't HAVE to be tied to Directs!". Robin's reveal has always felt like a one-off occurrence, that they have not done for what, 7 years now?

Byleth, Joker, Steve and Sephiroth were our only DLC characters not tied to Directs, with an asterisk next to Min Min since she was kinda revealed.

Joker and Sephiroth were revealed at TGA.

So that leaves Byleth and Steve, which, for all intents and purposes, were revealed in a more or less period where Directs were put on the backburner. We had the Mini in March, yes, but for all of 2020, that was it.


With Directs back in full force, the only way I see us getting a Sakurai Presents reveal again is more or less a "Final Presentation!" type deal like with Smash 4.

All I’m saying is, if directs ARE in full force again then that’s cool or whatever but if that is the case then a Direct in May really isn’t that far fetched considering that’s 3 months from now. And if their not in full force again and we’re not going to see one till maybe June then I doubt they delay a character that’s ready to release for the sake of being revealed in a June Direct. More likely they’d pull a Terry in the June Direct with the May character being presented and Terry only getting an announcement.

You can’t really say “Directs are back in full force” and then say seeing a character in May is too soon because when directs were in full force 3 months was a long time wait. To say we have to wait till E3 too see a new character when by all intents and purposes E3 won’t exist this year doesn’t really make much sense either. What if we don’t get a Direct in June? What if the next Direct isn’t until July? We don’t know right now. What we do know is that so far each character has been 2-2 1/2 months apart.

 

[N3ON]

I mean Smash reveals have never been irrevocably tied to Directs. Even back in Smash 4 Robin wasn’t revealed in a Direct, Greninja and most of the vets had their own Direct, and so did Corrin and Bayonetta.

If a character is finished by May I don’t think they’ll wait till June to reveal them.

I do. If they're planning to have a general presentation in June, akin to E3, I think the character reveal would be saved until then. Because typically Directs get priority over presentations. Solo Smash reveals only happen when there aren't Directs to be had, like last year. The reality is Min Min and Steve were probably going to be revealed at E3.

For example, Robin wasn't revealed in a Direct, but the month before, Palutena and Miis were, and there was only two or three months until release then. There weren't going to be any more general or Smash Directs beforehand, and he and Shulk still needed revealing.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Wasn't Shulk announced in a Japan-exclusive Direct?

Which was then announced in a standalone for the West?

Oh maybe, honestly I'm not sure. I knew there was a small direct this day, but I wasn't sure if Shulk trailer was in it but I guess it would make sense.

 

[SNEKeater]

Can't believe I went from moderately happy for Pyra/Mythra's inclusion

To extremely hyped

All because I listened to the game's OST. This OST is criminally amazing and the fact we're going to get more of it in Smash is amazing,

Glad to see you're enjoying it. I feel like music is the best way to draw people to new games or series.

I will throw a chair if Chun-Li doesn't come with Jazzy NYC

The lack of You Blow My Mind in that list makes me mad

 

[7NATOR]

You think they’d go back later?

What do you mean by this

If you mean the point about them going back to developing Smash Ultimate, What I mean is that I imagine that perhaps they could come back to Smash in general some time after Ultimate, whether it be months, year, etc

Personally I think there are already plans for the Next Smash at the least in consideration, whether it be negotiating for 3rd parties, type of content, etc. I think Splatoon 3 also gives more plausibility to this Possibility, since I'm assuming Splatoon 3 is re-using assets from Splatoon 2, and both the games are coming out on Switch

Ultimate only came out a year after Splatoon 2, and yes it has been getting DLC going into 2021, but i think even then It's not impossible for Another Smash game to be in production, if they are willing to do 2 Splatoon games. Now Whether it be on the Switch or Super Switch or whatever, I don't know

 

[StarBot]

I sure as hell hope so. This rollercoaster ride needs to continue.

Chaotic_Good.png

but same tbh, more chances!

I'm gonna have to disagree with you two guys, unless Sakuria is actively going to change the fundamentals with the game as he makes new characters (ie new modes and fixing some of the major fudmental flaws)

This is literally adding a new gun to a FPS, with the same maps and nothing else

Sure it's cool, and I will try it out for a few rounds, but after all I'm gonna stop playing the game and have to wait til the other new gun

And if he's really just gonna do that, then I just prefer if he just stops here, because if he adds another pass, then the DLC is official higher priced than the base game

(And imho, with the picks and the content they provide, it ain't worth it)

 

[ZenythSmash]

Well...

Coulda been Rex and his car noises without Pyra/Mythra.

DOUBLESPINNINGEDGEDOUBLESPINNINGEDGEDOUBLESPINNINGEDGEDOUBLESPINNINGEDGEDOUBLESPINNINGEDGE

 

[Dinoman96]

Now that I think about it, had Min Min and Steve been revealed at E3 last year in a COVID less world, how would of Sephiroth's reveal been handeled? Just reveal him in a regular ol' fall Direct (they did this with Cloud back in Smash 4, to be fair), or still just wait it out until TGA in December (meaning a whole half a year with no reveals)?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

So to change topic a bit, I realise that the Fighter pass 2 characters have way more complex mechanics than base game or even fighter pass 1 (Min min has never seen before range and 3 different weapons, Steve have crafting and blocks, Sephiroth is probably the more simple but One winged is still unique with 3 jumps and super armor, and Pyra Mythra is pretty much 2 characters in one). I guess that was why the time frame for Fighter pass 2 is way longer than what was pass 1. I do wonder if this trend will continue and who will be the next character and what they could bring.

 

[Shroob]

So to change topic a bit, I realise that the Fighter pass 2 characters have way more complex mechanics than base game or even fighter pass 1 (Min min has never seen before range and 3 different weapons, Steve have crafting and blocks, Sephiroth is probably the more simple but One winged is still unique with 3 jumps and super armor, and Pyra Mythra is pretty much 2 characters in one). I guess that was why the time frame for Fighter pass 2 is way longer than what was pass 1. I do wonder if this trend will continue and who will be the next character and what they could bring.

I dunno, Pyra/Mythra aren't that complex.


We had Zelda/Sheik all the way back in Melee. Sephiroth isn't really complex either.

 

[EmperorCoal]

As a certified Internet boomer, seeing Richter in Smash made me almost die laughing


Only to realize how many people didn't know who he was.


Damn kids, how do you not know one of the most meme'd lines in a video game of all time?!

As one of said kids and a professional blame shifter, it's y'alls fault for not shoving the meme further down my throat. You heard folks hop to.

 

[SharkLord]

So to change topic a bit, I realise that the Fighter pass 2 characters have way more complex mechanics than base game or even fighter pass 1 (Min min has never seen before range and 3 different weapons, Steve have crafting and blocks, Sephiroth is probably the more simple but One winged is still unique with 3 jumps and super armor, and Pyra Mythra is pretty much 2 characters in one). I guess that was why the time frame for Fighter pass 2 is way longer than what was pass 1. I do wonder if this trend will continue and who will be the next character and what they could bring.

Like Shroob said, Seph and the Blades aren't that complex. The former just gets some better stats, doesn't even have a meter, and their "gimmick" is often overshadowed by the giant sword with three-layered hitboxes. The latter are just auto-switching Echoes, and seem to share the same normals with different frame data. The only major differences are different sets of specials and possibly some unique but minor mechanics. We could get another gimmicklord in the future, but we could just as easily go back and have someone around the level of Byleth or Banjo.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I dunno, Pyra/Mythra aren't that complex.


We had Zelda/Sheik all the way back in Melee. Sephiroth isn't really complex either.

Like Shroob said, Seph and the Blades aren't that complex. The former just gets some better stats, doesn't even have a meter, and their "gimmick" is often overshadowed by the giant sword with three-layered hitboxes. The latter are just auto-switching Echoes, and seem to share the same normals with different frame data. The only major differences are different sets of specials and possibly some unique but minor mechanics. We could get another gimmicklord in the future, but we could just as easily go back and have someone around the level of Byleth or Banjo.

That's fair. That being said, with so many times remaining until the date limits, I do wonder if we'll see another character as complex as Steve. It seems that right now everyone think the pass will end well in advance, but maybe we will have another gap until one fighter to let the team work on something crazier.

 

[Shroob]

Like Shroob said, Seph and the Blades aren't that complex. The former just gets some better stats, doesn't even have a meter, and their "gimmick" is often overshadowed by the giant sword with three-layered hitboxes. The latter are just auto-switching Echoes, and seem to share the same normals with different frame data. The only major differences are different sets of specials and possibly some unique but minor mechanics. We could get another gimmicklord in the future, but we could just as easily go back and have someone around the level of Byleth or Banjo.

Seph and the Blades is my favorite early 2000's Emo Rock group.

 

[7NATOR]

I dunno, Pyra/Mythra aren't that complex.


We had Zelda/Sheik all the way back in Melee. Sephiroth isn't really complex either.

Shroob I'm gonna have to disagree

Sephiroth I will admit was probably the easiest character (as of right now) to implement, but I imagine the real challenege of Sephiroth was balancing his Range and Power, along with having to balance the One Wing Mode. Shadow Flare I think is also a very interesting attack they may have had to balance, Since there's not really any attacks that compare to it

Pyra/Mythra aren't the complex from a Design standpoint, since yeah we had/have transforming characters in the game, but I think the Implmenetation is much harder than let on. Pyra/Mythra seem to be one complete whole character seperated into Two, and I imagine Swapping between the two is Much more important than it was with characters like Zelda/Shiek and Pokemon Trainer. You have to balance the both of them to make sure both their movesets flow well and one doesn't heavily overshadow the other

They also seem to have some Crazy Specials/Mechanics, Mythra in particular

Also in terms of DLC Inclusions, none of the characters have been like Two in one characters, so this is kind of new avenue for DLC

 

[Shroob]

Shroob I'm gonna have to disagree

Sephiroth I will admit was probably the easiest character (as of right now) to implement, but I imagine the real challenege of Sephiroth was balancing his Range and Power, along with having to balance the One Wing Mode. Shadow Flare I think is also a very interesting attack they may have had to balance, Since there's not really any attacks that compare to it

Pyra/Mythra aren't the complex from a Design standpoint, since yeah we had/have transforming characters in the game, but I think the Implmenetation is much harder than let on. Pyra/Mythra seem to be one complete whole character seperated into Two, and I imagine Swapping between the two is Much more important than it was with characters like Zelda/Shiek and Pokemon Trainer. You have to balance the both of them to make sure both their movesets flow well and one doesn't heavily overshadow the other

They also seem to have some Crazy Specials/Mechanics, Mythra in particular

Also in terms of DLC Inclusions, none of the characters have been like Two in one characters, so this is kind of new avenue for DLC

I mean, there's no way they're more important than swapping between Zelda and Sheik,


Because no one ever wanted to swap back to Zelda as Sheik.

 

[RileyXY1]

With all these Japan-centric reveals lately I think that they might go for a character more popular in the West next.

 

[Idon]

Really depends on what you'd define as """complex""" considering Min Min's optimal gameplay is standing 5 meters away and pressing A and B which are made to do the same attack.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Really depends on what you'd define as """complex""" considering Min Min's optimal gameplay is standing 5 meters away and pressing A and B which are made to do the same attack.

In my case, I believe they want the development of the fighters to be more complex. ARMS mechanics, making sure mining and placing blocks works correctly on every stage, Mythra having enough to warrant a separate fighter number, these would require more time.

 

[ahemtoday]

Regarding gimmick talks: I think it would be foolish to try to predict characters based on what their movesets would be like in general, but especially based on whether or not they could have a new mechanic. It's important to realize that the days of stuff just being made up didn't just end with Ganondorf. They made Little Mac a ground-based grappler-in-all-but-actually-grappling with a comeback meter, and gave K. Rool a belly armor thing for some reason. Even beyond that, Pac-Man's a zoner when his classic games are all about being right next to danger, and Banjo's a zoner when his projectiles aren't overly great in his home game - and those are characters whose moves have pretty solid basis in source material.

My point is, a moveset isn't even close to a set-in-stone part of a character. It's not even in the same ballpark. So it's not an accurate way to judge the quality or likelihood of a character.