Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Shroob]

A game is more than it's roster. If Smash presents a new experience then the roster downsize won't matter as much. The only reason people are so obsessed with the roster is because that's the only thing to be excited about. Sure they can add some new modes and such. But all in all... We've been playing the same game for 20 years. The mechanics have changed. The speed. The feel. But it's still in the shadow of Melee. The moves, the abilities, the stage layouts. Not much has changed. So the most exciting thing for each new instalment is the fighters.

But, if we rediscover Smash in exciting new ways then there more to be excited about than the roster.

"A game is more than its roster"

He says in a thread dedicated to sifting through leaks determining what the next character is.


Smash IS its roster at its core. I think I speak for everyone but, if it's not broke, don't fix it. Who cares if it's "In the shadow of Melee".

 

[ZelDan]

i think maybe if they had a few of the big asks like geno, dixie, isaac, krystal and skull kid it might be popular with smash fans but i def think it'd be less appealing to the masses

Sure, those would be great, but I was also refering to "big" characters like Master Chief or Crash as well, the types of characters that would better appeal to the masses.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

a lot of the event pictures are honestly sick, wish they could be saved as like a wallpaper or theme or something

SmashWiki has a list of the Online Tourneys, and includes the pictures, so if you wanted and trusted the site enough, you could save them there.

Just so I don't tell you to do something I wouldn't, I went ahead and tried it, and it seems to work pretty well. I don't think the whole picture quite gets in there, but it seems pretty close.

EDIT: Let's just hope I didn't make a mistake in doing so. lol
EDIT EDIT: You could probably also just find the original announcement and get it straight from Nintendo. That would probably be smarter.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

A game is more than it's roster. If Smash presents us with a new experience, then the roster downsize won't matter as much. The only reason people are so obsessed with the roster is because that's the only thing to be excited about. Sure they can add some new modes and such. But all in all... We've been playing the same game for 20 years. The mechanics have changed. The speed. The feel. But it's still in the shadow of Melee. The moves, the abilities, the stage layouts. Not much has changed. So the most exciting thing for each new instalment is the fighters.

But, if we rediscover Smash in exciting new ways then there more to be excited about than the roster.

I know this is just my perspective, but idk if smashes core gameplay needs a major overhaul (except 4 ganon and sonic, but that's just their induvial movesets)
If that was the main sell of the next smash game i feel like it'd appeal 2 far less people

 

[Koopaul]

I know this is just my perspective, but idk if smashes core gameplay needs a major overhaul (except 4 ganon and sonic, but that's just their induvial movesets)
If that was the main sell of the next smash game i feel like it'd appeal 2 far less people

I think, for me, I treat Smash like any other video game series.

Like Super Mario. Or Zelda. I'm always excited to see them come up with new and inventive ideas. Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey were a breath of fresh air. Smash is a video game in my eyes. Just a video game. But I think it also cursed by the fact that people put so much importance on it. So much so that campaigns are made for characters and death threats are thrown. It's absurd.

I think it was Ultimate that made me come to this mindset. I'd see people scream with joy when a fighter is revealed only for him/her to be forgotten by the time the next fighter came out. It made me ask: "How long are these fighters seen as important?" and "Did adding this fighter make Ultimate a better game? Am I having more fun now that this character was added?"

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

TBH I feel like if anyone would cause problems, It'd mostly be Square. But Sakurai is a miracle maker.

Y’see I would’ve said the same pre Sephiroth but it doesn’t seem to Squares fault actually. It just takes a good bit of time to work out the copyright kinks. The same thing likely had to be done with Steve.

 

[Momotsuki]

A game is more than it's roster. If Smash presents us with a new experience, then the roster downsize won't matter as much. The only reason people are so obsessed with the roster is because that's the only thing to be excited about. Sure they can add some new modes and such. But all in all... We've been playing the same game for 20 years. The mechanics have changed. The speed. The feel. But it's still in the shadow of Melee. The moves, the abilities, the stage layouts. Not much has changed. So the most exciting thing for each new instalment is the fighters.

But, if we rediscover Smash in exciting new ways then there more to be excited about than the roster.

No. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. People aren't playing Smash because they want to play something else.

 

[MagnesD3]

So with Sephiroth in Smash what other Villains would you want to see?

The obvious answer for a lot of people is Eggman. And I agree. He could be a tank version of Bowser Jr but with attacks based on his past boss fights.
Metal Sonic for grabs like Toad and Peach, Wrecking Ball for down Smash, Egg Drill for Dash attack, Big Arm for a side Smash. Perhaps a Phantom Ruby Final Smash featuring Infinite and the Sonic Forces illusions of Shadow, Chaos, Metal and Zavok? Nah, the huge laser from ARK in Sonic Adventure 2 would be better.

As for others I could see a Street Fighter villain. Calamity Ganon, Hades, Tabuu or King Boo

I would say Xehanort but Sora isn't in Smash so, yeah lol

King Boo
Demise w/ Ghirahim
Skull Kid
Black Shadow
Porky in Mech
Tom Nook
Bison
Urien
Dr Wily
Sigma
Shadow
Dr Eggman
Gruntilda
Geese

Now for franchises outside of smash that are worthy:
Xehanort
Nightmare
Vergil
Wesker
Nemesis
Pyramid Head
Dr Neo Cortex

I think this covers most of the iconic ones I could see being worthy of inclusion

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think this is either the final entry, or the second to last entry in the series before everything goes stale. We either port forever, never changing the mechanics, amassing a roster that doesn't fit on the screen anymore, and watching the side content die in a fire, or we reboot, changing things up, but then having this weird rotating cast of veterans and newcomers going beyond that because the roster size has to remain constant.

I don't see a win here.

 

[Koopaul]

No. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. People aren't playing Smash because they want to play something else.

Would you feel this philosophy applies to New Super Mario Bros? That they should just continue to make more of those forever? After all, those games sell like crazy. I guess Mario games should just be the same forever. No new ideas. Just fire flowers and flagpoles forever.

 

[Momotsuki]

Would you feel this philosophy applies to New Super Mario Bros? That they should just continue to make more of those forever? After all, those games sell like crazy. I guess Mario games should just be the same forever. No new ideas. Just fire flowers and flagpoles forever.

I think New Super Mario Bros. is in dire need of more diverse level themes and enemy designs, especially in regards to bosses and more interesting environments more than anything. But the core gameplay is completely fine and does not need to be changed at all, and changing it would feel forced. Does this answer your question?

 

[SirBillyBob]

Smashboards Speculators and Roster cuts, name a better duo

And here I thought we were sick of that.

 

[Idon]

So with Sephiroth in Smash what other Villains would you want to see?

Vergil, the ultimate rival character.
... but you can't have the ultimate rival character without the hero of the story.

Only solution then... is to add both.

 

[BZocky]

Finally played through Cloud's classic route tonight to unlock that classic artwork. Also now feels like a good time to post some concepts and pencil sketches of that specific art and others included on Sephiroth's spirit board. I really have an appreciation for Nomura's artwork btw

Spoiler: Concept Art, etc.

These are just a few examples. I'm pretty sure the rest of the original FF7 artworks used on the board also have pencil sketches and concept art that are easy to come across online.
Also some Sephiroths;

Spoiler: SEP-HI-ROTH

Sephiroth Early Sketch - Final Fantasy VII Art Gallery

View an image titled 'Sephiroth Early Sketch' in our Final Fantasy VII art gallery featuring official character designs, concept art, and promo pictures.

www.creativeuncut.com

Sephiroth Sketch - Final Fantasy VII Art Gallery

View an image titled 'Sephiroth Sketch' in our Final Fantasy VII art gallery featuring official character designs, concept art, and promo pictures.

www.creativeuncut.com

 

[Awkwah]

Cool to note that the Geno spirit battle is not updated, just like when Min Min launched the spirit battle was not updated. Nothing but cool speculation.

 

[Momotsuki]

I think this is either the final entry, or the second to last entry in the series before everything goes stale. We either port forever, never changing the mechanics, amassing a roster that doesn't fit on the screen anymore, and watching the side content die in a fire, or we reboot, changing things up, but then having this weird rotating cast of veterans and newcomers going beyond that because the roster size has to remain constant.

I don't see a win here.

No doubt at all the series will go on - Nintendo ain't letting this cash cow go - but I've already decided that Ultimate is my last Smash game - I will likely be playing it for a long, long time - whether on the Switch or future hardware should it get ported. But whatever comes after Ultimate, I'm not going to be looking into. So, yeah. Make of that what you will.

 

[Ben Holt]

I think, for me, I treat Smash like any other video game series.

Like Super Mario. Or Zelda. I'm always excited to see them come up with new and inventive ideas. Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey were a breath of fresh air. Smash is a video game in my eyes. Just a video game. But I think it also cursed by the fact that people put so much importance on it. So much so that campaigns are made for characters and death threats are thrown. It's absurd.

I think it was Ultimate that made me come to this mindset. I'd see people scream with joy when a fighter is revealed only for him/her to be forgotten by the time the next fighter came out. It made me ask: "How long are these fighters seen as important?" and "Did adding this fighter make Ultimate a better game? Am I having more fun now that this character was added?"

I actually prefer DLC to base game. In a base game, you get all the characters at once, so you don't really get to spend time on each new character.
But with DLC, EVERY new character is a big event.
I'd have never played Terry had he been in the base game, but I still enjoy playing as him from time to time, and the reason I spent time with him was because he was the new toy in the toy box.
And Terry was the most "meh" character of the bunch.
Banjo was my vote in the 2015 Fighter Ballot, so he's obviously my favorite as a character, but Steve might be my favorite as a moveset. His unique mechanic DOES add to the Smash Bros. experience, and I loved it despite Steve not being in my Top 10.

 

[MagnesD3]

I think this is either the final entry, or the second to last entry in the series before everything goes stale. We either port forever, never changing the mechanics, amassing a roster that doesn't fit on the screen anymore, and watching the side content die in a fire, or we reboot, changing things up, but then having this weird rotating cast of veterans and newcomers going beyond that because the roster size has to remain constant.

I don't see a win here.

They definitely should go the reboot route and lean into a small roster with a lot more in depth mechanics while keeping the execution easy. I’d also lean heavily into making it feel like a big adventure collab with an awesome story and blend of gameplay somehow expressed in a single player.

 

[Ben Holt]

Would you feel this philosophy applies to New Super Mario Bros? That they should just continue to make more of those forever? After all, those games sell like crazy. I guess Mario games should just be the same forever. No new ideas. Just fire flowers and flagpoles forever.

As a Mario lover, I can say that the worst thing about the New Super Mario Bros. games is the fact that the artstyle is the exact same.
The level design is fine, and I'll always enjoy a fresh batch of new Mario levels, but I wish that the artstyle had more care put into it like Donkey Kong Country Returns and Tropical Freeze.
Even the Super Mario 3D World style from Super Mario Maker 2 would be great, as it has so much more color and visual flare while still keeping the core 2D Mario formula.
Another option is the hand drawn style of Wario Land: Shake It!

So to me, the New Super Mario Bros. Gameplay isn't stale. It's just that it's still using an old art style from the DS.
Presentation goes a long way.

 

[Koopaul]

I think New Super Mario Bros. is in dire need of more diverse level themes and enemy designs, especially in regards to bosses and more interesting environments more than anything. But the core gameplay is completely fine and does not need to be changed at all, and changing it would feel forced. Does this answer your question?

I should be more clear I don't think they should completely reinvent Smash. I think Smash still needs to be a platform fighting game where the goal is to smaash your opponent off the screen. It needs to maintain that identity to be "Smash".

However, that doesn't mean Mario has to have the same moveset forever, or that classic mode always ends with Master Hand, or that we have only 4 special moves, or that we always have a Battlefield and Final Destination, etc etc etc etc. This is what I'm talking about. Certain things in the series feel stagnant. Because of tradition. I would be happy if those traditions died. That the next time I picked up Mario he'd feel brand new. That the new standard for a stage layout wasn't the three platform Battlefield. That there were new mechanics and movement options.

Anyway this is the Speculation thread so I'll end it here. But Smash can do so much more and much of it feels chained down.

 

[SharkLord]

They definitely should go the reboot route and lean into a small roster with a lot more in depth mechanics while keeping the execution easy. I’d also lean heavily into making it feel like a big adventure collab with an awesome story and blend of gameplay somehow expressed in a single player.

Yeah, one of the upsides of a smaller roster is that there's more room for character interactions. In Ultimate, there isn't really much of that outside the trailers.

 

[Momotsuki]

Gosh, I really hope this is Sakurai's last Smash. Ultimate is a sort of last stand for the series, and I don't want to see him have to be the one to prop up its corpse. Seriously, let some Nintendo stooge do it, and maybe we can see a new Kid Icarus from the only guy I trust to do it right.

 

[MagnesD3]

Yeah, one of the upsides of a smaller roster is that there's more room for character interactions. In Ultimate, there isn't really much of that outside the trailers.

Yeah, I’d also probably give characters a lot more moves and references to pull from too, I imagine a huge moveset like tekken but nothing is terribly complex to execute. Mario could have access to basically all of his previous power ups or something, each character would be brimming with detail and representation to make up the difference.

 

[Momotsuki]

I should be more clear I don't think they should completely reinvent Smash. I think Smash still needs to be a platform fighting game where the goal is to smaash your opponent off the screen. It needs to maintain that identity to be "Smash".

However, that doesn't mean Mario has to have the same moveset forever, or that classic mode always ends with Master Hand, or that we have only 4 special moves, or that we always have a Battlefield and Final Destination, etc etc etc etc. This is what I'm talking about. Certain things in the series feel stagnant. Because of tradition. I would be happy if those traditions died. That the next time I picked up Mario he'd feel brand new. That the new standard for a stage layout wasn't the three platform Battlefield. That there were new mechanics and movement options.

Anyway this is the Speculation thread so I'll end it here. But Smash can do so much more and much of it feels chained down.

Are you completely bonkers? You're proposing getting rid of Battlefield, Final Destination, Master Hand!? Go play something else if you don't like Smash, seriously, there's other games out there. These things are like - huge parts of Smash's identity as something beyond just being a crossover.

I value things about Smash beyond its crossover aspect, and one of those things is its original aspects - and the sort of "world" those aspects present, and you're proposing just throwing it all away?

 

[PeridotGX]

Smash can exist without Sakurai. I love his work on the series, but it's not like it's impossible for someone else to do another good smash game. Hell, we have proof of it.

I've never played it, but from what I gather it's a rather good Smash game, and Sakurai probably doesn't even know it exists.

 

[Momotsuki]

Smash can exist without Sakurai. I love his work on the series, but it's not like it's impossible for someone else to do another good smash game.

You're right, it can and will exist without him. I hope those who stick around for it enjoy it. Enjoy the roster cuts and shattered traditions, that is. And hey, I don't want him to keep working on Smash forever either. Put two and two together, yeah, I'm saying I want the series as we know it to end, and I will simply ignore the future installments.

Ultimate definitely won't be the last Smash game but for better or worse I've long already decided it's mine.

 

[SharkLord]

Yeah, I’d also probably give characters a lot more moves and references to pull from too, I imagine a huge moveset like tekken but nothing is terrible complex to execute. Mario could have access to basically all of his previous power ups or something, each character would be brimming with detail and representation to make up the difference.

I think a Tekken-level moveset might be a bit much (The most basic character has like 60+ moves as of Tekken 7), but a bit more comprehensive control scheme would be nice. Something like the Touhou fighters; A couple buttons with directional inputs for different attacks, and a special attack button as usual.

 

[Ben Holt]

Holy ****, the pessimism.
Smash Ultimate broken sales records.
The series is not going to die off any time soon.
The roster will keep expanding, and if we get cuts, it'll be very few, but the reception to "Everyone is Here" was so good that I doubt they'd abandon it.

If there's any possible problem, it'd be that the licensing for third party franchises is too expensive for the game to be profitable for a $60 game.

But here's my solution for a giant roster:

Base game: Nintendo All-Stars + Sonic, Pac-Man, Snake, Cloud, and Mega Man.
This is the $60 game at retail.

Then each third party company that wants to make money from Smash can sell add-ons for $25ish.

So a Sega pack could be:
Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Shadow, Silver, Amy, Metal Sonic, Blaze, Rouge, Omega, Bayonetta, Jeanne, Rodin, Joker, Minato, Yu, Demifiend, Jack Frost, Nights, Ristar, Beat, Akira, Jackie, Alex Kidd, etc.

Square Enix could have a pack for:
Sephiroth, Tifa, Barret, Zack, Black Mage, Chokobo, Terra, Zidane, Tidus, Noctis, Erdrick, Solo, Eight, Eleven (break up Hero into 4 distinct characters), Slime, Lara Croft, Crono, 2B, Randi, etc.

I feel like that's the best way to ensure that the roster only expands in the future.

 

[osby]

I think taking a series known for its broad appeal and accesibility, and then trying to make up for the missing fighters with more complex movesets is a kinda bad idea.

Then again, I'm just just a filthy casual who prefers using DLC thread for DLC talk so what do I know

 

[PeridotGX]

maybe a Smash reboot could have a Fraymaker-esque assist system? Basically, you choose an assist that will help you during battle. I feel like it's a relatively simple change that completely redefines the game (both in gameplay and in speculation)

 

[Momotsuki]

Maybe I'm closed-minded. Maybe I'm just tired and going off on a rambling, grumpy-old-man monologue (at the ripe age of eighteen, no less!) It's nearly 2 AM after all. Did I snap at anyone? I honestly don't know; if I did, I apologize. I might be goin' batty, so I'll go to bed and meet y'all in a better mood~

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Sure, those would be great, but I was also refering to "big" characters like Master Chief or Crash as well, the types of characters that would better appeal to the masses.

Well assuming we don't get them in ultimate lmao. You never know

 

[JamesDNaux]

Smash doesn't need a major shakeup, every game in the series is already a major shakeup. If Smash was as stale and repetitive as New Super Mario Bros. then there wouldn't be a huge community dedicated to an inferior entry in the series from nearly 20 years ago. There's enough gameplay differences that people actively choose not to play the game with not only the exact same characters, but quadruple the amount of that old roster in new characters and an unimaginable amount more of other content. Go back and play Smash For, or god forbid, Brawl and then say the gameplay is identical to Ultimate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Smash can exist without Sakurai. I love his work on the series, but it's not like it's impossible for someone else to do another good smash game. Hell, we have proof of it.

I've never played it, but from what I gather it's a rather good Smash game, and Sakurai probably doesn't even know it exists.

As someone who has played it, I can confirm that it is good, but I'd imagine my tune would be very different if it was the next entry in the series.

There are ~31 veterans, which means there are ~50 cuts (I say about because we don't know the final 3 characters in Ultimate yet). Das a lot. We've got Bandana Waddle Dee, but not King Dedede. We've got Goku, Luffy, Naruto, and Ichigo broadening the scope to anime characters when the series has enough trouble managing its video game characters. Characters that made it into the game before their debut in the actual series have kinda awkward fusions of their fan made and official moveset ideas. Cloud and Sephiroth were traded in for just Black Mage, which would be weird.

And if we're going into the game as is (i.e. things that wouldn't necesserilly be the case if it were official, but it is the case in SSF2), the sprites just don't convey the same sense of impact that the 3D models do, and they aren't all in a consistent artstyle. Kirby in particular looks quite ugly (I dunno how they accomplished that). A lot of the music isn't as good as what you would find in the official games (though that one's pretty subjective), and the AI has the big stupid.

But hey, it's got Sora!

Yeah, I think it's a good game alongside the official titles, but as a sequel to Ultimate...I think it would be pretty disappointing.

 

[cashregister9]

The biggest shakeup I can think of would be a Mobile Version of Smash in addition to a console version. The mobile version would have the larger roster but with significantly different gameplay (like a moba) while the console version would have the more in depth gameplay and a more detailed roster albeit, smaller.

Anyways...

Here is that Picture Of The Day (I don't think this has been posted yet)

イヴイヴに、本配信開始です!!
偶数カラーのクラウドが、超究武神覇斬ver.5を使えるようになります。 #スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/6gG5E9wrmk

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) December 23, 2020

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Vergil, the ultimate rival character.
... but you can't have the ultimate rival character without the hero of the story.

Only solution then... is to add both.
View attachment 296885

Speaking of Vergil, if he gets in and has his DMCV look as an alt, one of his taunts needs to be "It's past your bedtime"

 

[N3ON]

People act like not talking about cuts will prevent them from happening.

Yeah, depending on who you play as, there's a chance your character gets cut. There's a good chance several of my characters get cut. But that's life. At least they will always be in a Smash game you presumably already own.

Cuts are part of fighting games as a genre, and will eventually be part of Smash again too. Ultimate was an anomaly, and Sakurai has basically already said such a thing won't be possible again.

If you don't want to talk about cuts, instead of whining, don't join in. But cuts will happen, so they should be free game to discuss.

 

[PeridotGX]

As someone who has played it, I can confirm that it is good, but I'd imagine my tune would be very different if it was the next entry in the series.

There are ~31 veterans, which means there are ~50 cuts (I say about because we don't know the final 3 characters in Ultimate yet). Das a lot. We've got Bandana Waddle Dee, but not King Dedede. We've got Goku, Luffy, Naruto, and Ichigo broadening the scope to anime characters when the series has enough trouble managing its video game characters. Characters that made it into the game before their debut in the actual series have kinda awkward fusions of their fan made and official moveset ideas. Cloud and Sephiroth were traded in for just Black Mage, which would be weird.

And if we're going into the game as is (i.e. things that wouldn't necesserilly be the case if it were official, but it is the case in SSF2), the sprites just don't convey the same sense of impact that the 3D models do, and they aren't all in a consistent artstyle. Kirby in particular looks quite ugly (I dunno how they accomplished that). A lot of the music isn't as good as what you would find in the official games (though that one's pretty subjective), and the AI has the big stupid.

But hey, it's got Sora!

Yeah, I think it's a good game alongside the official titles, but as a sequel to Ultimate...I think it would be pretty disappointing.

I'm not saying Smash Flash 2 should be the next Smash game, i'm just saying that it's proof that a competent Smash game can be made by people other than Sakurai.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm not saying Smash Flash 2 should be the next Smash game, i'm just saying that it's proof that a competent Smash game can be made by people other than Sakurai.

That I can agree with. I just don't think that there's a direction that they could go in that doesn't have major problems either immediately, or pretty soon down the line.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Kinda wish Final Fantasy’s Black Mage was a fighter.

Smash Flash 2 made him cool. He’s got cool moves.

Also he’s got a cool design.

Anyway I got FF7 on Switch, got to where Aerith (or “Aeris” as the default name says but I fixed it) was taken and it’s pretty good so far. I’m interested in Black Mage too though so should I get the first game on mobile? Thought about just emulating the original game but eh idk. I don’t have a PSP so can’t get it on that; wish it was on Steam.

Speaking of Steam, did you know FF7 is a little bit cheaper on there than on the Switch right now? smh.