Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Deleted member]

As far as further FF characters I'd generally prefer one from the older games if just because the series' pre 32 bit era lacks any representation in Smash and was so tied into Nintendo.

In that case, I feel like the job class 'Black Mage' would be the best bet. It's one of the most recognizable job classes and was even a playable character in Mario Hoops 3-on-3 and Mario Sports Mix

Spoiler: Black Mage in Mario Sports Mix

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

focus on reinventing the staple veterans, mainly characters from the first 3 though I feel a lot of newcomers from Smash 4 - Ultimate would be cut anyway, and they should try to squeeze in quite a few newcomers, but there would likely be not too many

honestly, I basically would want them to treat almost every fighter as if they were a newcomer, except for like, Captain Falcon

I can get behind this actually - it would be really nice to see a reinvented Mario, DK and Kirby, and I'm in the camp that feels like Samus really needs switching up to be more like her source material. Personally, though... I think it would also be cool to see more echo fighters (more like Ryu and Ken as opposed to Peach and Orange Peach Daisy.) Fills out the roster without too much dev work! :D

As far as further FF characters I'd generally prefer one from the older games if just because the series' pre 32 bit era lacks any representation in Smash and was so tied into Nintendo.

I mean, here, I'd either argue Terra or Black Mage, but allow me to suggest an alternative based around the latter - the FF1 Party
The Party would basically be the Warrior, Thief, Black Mage and White Mage and you could switch between them perhaps?

 

[Otoad64]

I can get behind this actually - it would be really nice to see a reinvented Mario, DK and Kirby, and I'm in the camp that feels like Samus really needs switching up to be more like her source material. Personally, though... I think it would also be cool to see more echo fighters (more like Ryu and Ken as opposed to Peach and Orange Peach Daisy.) Fills out the roster without too much dev work! :D

you mention Daisy being basically orange Peach, but ideally Daisy would completely decloned

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, here, I'd either argue Terra or Black Mage, but allow me to suggest an alternative based around the latter - the FF1 Party
The Party would basically be the Warrior, Thief, Black Mage and White Mage and you could switch between them perhaps?

Replace White mage with Red and you've got the 8-bit Theater Party.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

you mention Daisy being basiically orange Peach, but ideally Daisy would completely decloned

Hell yeah! I think it would be cool if Daisy's moveset was based more on where she actually seems to turn up, being the Sports series (which I know is considered a bit of a kick in the face to Waluigi fans, I'm sorry)

 

[I.D.]

Alright, so

I'm planning a mostly realistic concept for a DLC pack that focuses on a certain RPG character (nudge nudge wink wink) and I need some decently large RPG games for the Miis. This is a one-off pack and I won't be continuing with CP10 and 11, so you won't have to worry about the repercussions. Feel free to deconfirm the %$#@ out of any of your most-wanteds.

I'll stick to characters not mentioned yet:

Yuri Hyuga from Shadow Hearts (brawler)
Ark from Terranigma (swordfighter)
Fei Fong Wong from Xenogears (brawler)
JC Denton from Deus Ex (gunner)
Serge from Chrono Cross (swordfighter)
Aya Brea from Parasite Eve (gunner)
Dart from Legend of Dragoon (swordfighter)
Lenneth from Valkyrie Profile (swordfighter)
Tir from Suikoden (swordfighter)
Kite from .hack (swordfighter)
Sundown Kid from Live-A-Live (gunner)
Red/Alkaiser from SaGa Frontier (swordfighter)
Rudy from Wild Arms (gunner)
Vahn from Legend of Legaia (brawler)
Kalas from Baten Kaitos (swordfighter)

 

[JOJONumber691]

I don't know if Smash could continue on without Sakurai.

I don't know if Mario could continue on without Miyamoto.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I don't know if Mario could continue on without Miyamoto.

If only Super Mario Land is created by Miyamoto (I know it's not) Daisy will be in his top priority character in the series than Rosalina (which not much).

 

[SNEKeater]

I personally don't like going for avatar characters to rep Final Fantasy. Not a fan of that.

The exception would be Warrior of Light, and for 3 reasons:
1. he has a sick design
2. he's from the first game
3. he has a personality in the Dissidia games

But like, why would I choose a random Black Mage when you have Vivi? Why would I choose a generic Dragoon when you have Kain? And so on.

I don't think choosing a blank slate character for a series that is beloved, among other things, for it's characters, is a good idea. I might think differently if all FF games had avatars/black slate characters but that is a thing only in a few Final Fantasy games. I'm talking about mainline entries.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I personally don't like going for avatar characters to rep Final Fantasy. Not a fan of that.

The exception would be Warrior of Light, and for 3 reasons:
1. he has a sick design
2. he's from the first game
3. he has a personality in the Dissidia games

But like, why would I choose a random Black Mage when you have Vivi? Why would I choose a generic Dragoon when you have Kain? And so on.

I don't think choosing a blank slate character for a series that is beloved, among other things, for it's characters, is a good idea. I might think differently if all FF games had avatars/black slate characters but that is a thing only in a few Final Fantasy games. I'm talking about mainline entries.

I mean, Link has always been a Blank Slate, sooooooooooo....................................

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

But like, why would I choose a random Black Mage when you have Vivi?

Because the original Black Mage has a vastly superior design.

I'm only half joking.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I mean, Link has always been a Blank Slate, sooooooooooo....................................

Though to be fair, he's actually not a class like Villager is. That's more of an audience surrogate, but he's still a defined and named character. He's just does how generic JRPG Protagonists would be.

It's not the same as an actual Avatar, who can often have no defined name(Villager, partially Pokemon Trainer's intention(though only Smash outright goes with this due to every Player Character having an actual name and eventual personality), Black Mage, etc)

Not that it matters. Villager and Pokemon Trainer(the only ones who are outright generic Avatars and aren't defined character versions, at least with how Smash treats them) show that being a "Class" is more than good enough. I'm a Black Mage supporter. I like Vivi, but he's not the one that interests me for Smash. Sure, it's mostly cause of a webcomic, but it made me appreciate how neat a class can be with a blank slate. It can be who you want them to be.

(Worth noting Link has gained a much more clear personality since ALTTP. But another thing is he's a legacy character, not a single one like Mario, so there's many different ones with different personalities).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Our preference probably comes down to what we're familiar with, which seems to mostly be Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy VI, and Final Fantasy VII. Most of us at least know of Final Fantasy X/X-2, Final Fantasy XIII, and Dissidia Final Fantasy, and a few of us know Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn's characters, but that seems to be it.

Personally, I'm just familiar with Final Fantasy, Final Fantasy VII, and Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn. Vivi does nothing for me, and neither does the Warrior of Light, and I can't even picture most of the other suggested characters.

Does that mean I shouldn't be the one making the decisions? Probably, though if I was the one making the decisions I'd certainly do more research than "I want Black Mage".

I will say one thing though: With how recognizable the Warriors of Light from the first game (not the one from Dissidia Final Fantasy) seem to be, I don't think adding them is an inherently bad idea.

 

[I.D.]

Bartz is the best choice for classic FF because he would bring the job system and because V is a genuinely fantastic game. He even already sort of got considered by Sakurai.

 

[Will]

Still going for WoL. Does FF1 and Dissidia justice, he could basically represent all archetypes of the original classes, even proto-BM. That's about it. His design is also pretty cool to me, reminds me of Dark Magician from YGO.

But realistically, after Sephiroth? That's tough, it could be someone popular from pre-7, which would hilariously be Terra from 6 so it doesn't make much difference. Or you could shill with the new guy from XVI.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I am I the only weird one here, because I thought Lightning from Final Fantasy XIII is more popular than Terra, Black Mage and Warriors of Light combined and a step below Tifa, Aerith, Sephiroth and Cloud in terms of recognizability?

I mean I kid you not i almost remember all the character faces from that game despite never have interest on the game and nor have even play it.

 

[zeldasmash]

If you count VII, Tifa is probably the next one up to join.

If you don't count VII, then I'd say either the Black Mage or Terra. With the Black Mage, they can choose the generic Black Mage like SSF2 did, they could go with the Black Mage design of Mario Hoops 3-on-3 or they could go with Vivi.

Underdogs besides those two I'd say would be Noctis (Would be awesome), Lightning (please no...), Cecil (would be cool), Tidus (good stuff) or even Bartz since Sakurai did consider him.

 

[Will]

I am I the only weird one here, because I thought Lightning from Final Fantasy XIII is more popular than Terra, Black Mage and Warriors of Light combined and a step below Tifa, Aerith, Sephiroth and Cloud in terms of recognizability?

Yeah but Lightning is my equivalent to Corrin. I'd accept it, but I'd hate it with every bone in my body.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I am I the only weird one here, because I thought Lightning from Final Fantasy XIII is more popular than Terra, Black Mage and Warriors of Light combined and a step below Tifa, Aerith, Sephiroth and Cloud in terms of recognizability?

to be fair

that was moreso cause Square Enix themselves were shilling her during the height of the XIII trilogy

THEY DEADASS EVEN DID A LOUIS VUITTON AD WITH HER I **** YOU NOT.

 

[I.D.]

I am I the only weird one here, because I thought Lightning from Final Fantasy XIII is more popular than Terra, Black Mage and Warriors of Light combined and a step below Tifa, Aerith, Sephiroth and Cloud in terms of recognizability?

Go to bed Toriyama

 

[DarthEnderX]

you mention Daisy being basically orange Peach, but ideally Daisy would completely decloned

Lol, no. She should get at least SOME gameplay changes, as an echo, but she's perfect as an echo.

I'd hate to think someone else didn't get in so that Daisy could get a unique moveset...

but allow me to suggest an alternative based around the latter - the FF1 Party
The Party would basically be the Warrior, Thief, Black Mage and White Mage and you could switch between them perhaps?

This is why we desperately need a Mii Mage.

Give Swordfighter a FF1 Fighter costume, Brawler a FF1 Monk costume, and Mii Mage FF1 Black Mage and White Mage costumes.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

In this video essay I will explain why Gilgamesh deserves to be the third Square Enix rep.

 

[Deleted member]

If they did go with another FF character, they'd likely reach back to FFVI. FF7 brought a LOT to the table and did for the franchise what Persona 5 has done for the Persona series; it kinda opened the door for many more to get into the genre altogether. Outside of that, FFVI is usually upheld within the fandom as being the better game so if they were to get another character, it'd probably be from it. If it were to be a DLC character and have a gimmick, it'd probably be a Duo character that can switch out for one another and would likely be Terra & Celes

Spoiler: due to spoiler reasons

since Terra was the main character for the World of Balance and Celes was the main character for the World of Ruin. You could even skip getting Terra back and just complete the game without her

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I am I the only weird one here, because I thought Lightning from Final Fantasy XIII is more popular than Terra, Black Mage and Warriors of Light combined and a step below Tifa, Aerith, Sephiroth and Cloud in terms of recognizability? It might be because of Nomura's interest in fashion that I see her everywhere on multiple brand.

Lightning's real popular in Japan but pretty controversial in the west.


As for an ideal FF character outside of 7, Terra has a kickass install. Sure, Zidane also has the Trance mechanic but Terra?

Terra's cooler

 

[Will]

you mention Daisy being basically orange Peach, but ideally Daisy would completely decloned

Ideally, everyone would be decloned if they had the time and development for it. I have Dark Pit moveset I made a long time ago that uses the rest of the weapon archetypes that Pit hadn't used. But if anyone's getting "decloned", I don't think Daisy would be first up. They'd probably push more for characters who are already in that process, like Ganondorf.

 

[zeldasmash]

I am I the only weird one here, because I thought Lightning from Final Fantasy XIII is more popular than Terra, Black Mage and Warriors of Light combined and a step below Tifa, Aerith, Sephiroth and Cloud in terms of recognizability? It might be because of Nomura's interest in fashion that I see her everywhere on multiple brand.

I think she is more popular then Terra and the Warriors of Light, but more popular then the Black Mage? Tricky. Even people who have never played a Final Fantasy game recognize the Black Mage design and even term as Final Fantasy. Though I wouldn't be fully surprised if she is because damn did Square Enix shill the hell out of Lightning during XIII's relevancy.

I personally hope she doesn't make it because XIII did quite a bit of damage to the reputation of not just Final Fantasy but the company as a whole and there are much better choices within the series. I'd rather see Firion from Final Fantasy II in the game then Lightning.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

In this video essay I will explain why Gilgamesh deserves to be the third Square Enix rep.

*fourth, technically, though third for DLC in Ultimate

im still shilling neku till my last breath don't @ me, i just wanna see a non-ff or dq ip getting represented

 

[JOJONumber691]

Personally I'd go for Kefka from VI or Agrias Oaks from Tactics. Both could be incredibly Unique and Fresh Additions to the Roster and ESPECIALLY the Final Fantasy Representation as a whole.

 

[Dinoman96]

Unpopular opinion: I don't really think most of the old cast really need a major overhaul. I definitely think there's some that could be touched up like Samus or maybe Kirby but outside of that, I just never really saw the "completely overhaul everyone" as an enticing enough incentive for a full blown reboot. I think most of the 64/Melee characters are fine as is, and over the years they've done a good enough job balancing between retaining their classic movesets while being updated to be more in line with their games (i.e DK getting his roll attack, Luigi using the Poltergust in his grabs/FS, etc).

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

While pretty much all FF Soundtracks are an embarrassment of riches, the possibility of getting a form of Dancing Mad in a Smash game pretty much pushes Terra over the top for me as the ideal selection:

 

[JOJONumber691]

Unpopular opinion: I don't really think most of the old cast really need a major overhaul. I definitely think there's some that could be touched up like Samus or maybe Kirby but outside of that, I just never really saw the "completely overhaul everyone" as an enticing enough incentive for a full blown reboot. I think most of the 64/Melee characters are fine as is, and over the years they've done a good enough job balancing between retaining their classic movesets while being updated to be more in line with their games (i.e DK getting his roll attack, Luigi using the Poltergust in his grabs/FS, etc).

Personally, Rebooting a Fighter isn't going to change everything, and Respecting how a Character Plays, and Revamping from there is the Best Way to change a Character, like making Diddy a Duo with Dixie for example.

 

[Dinoman96]

Personally, Rebooting a Fighter isn't going to change everything, and Respecting how a Character Plays, and Revamping from there is the Best Way to change a Character, like making Diddy a Duo with Dixie for example.

I feel like it's way too late at this point to attach Dixie to the hip with Diddy lol

More people would rather want Dixie as her own fighter.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I think she is more popular then Terra and the Warriors of Light, but more popular then the Black Mage? Tricky. Even people who have never played a Final Fantasy game recognize the Black Mage design and even term as Final Fantasy. Though I wouldn't be fully surprised if she is because damn did Square Enix shill the hell out of Lightning during XIII's relevancy.

I personally hope she doesn't make it because XIII did quite a bit of damage to the reputation of not just Final Fantasy but the company as a whole and there are much better choices within the series. I'd rather see Firion from Final Fantasy II in the game then Lightning.

Yeah, but ngl I blame Square Enix for shilling XIII to death for making me remember the cast of XIII more than VII, before Smash I used to be a hardcore PlayStation fans and my guess that anyone who even touched a PlayStation console already have XIII embedded in their mind atm and I don't know **** about Final Fantasy ever.


But hey, at least I gotta thank them for introducing me to Serah Farron (and still, I don't know crap about her other than her design is really appealing)

 

[JOJONumber691]

I feel like it's way too late at this point to attach Dixie to the hip with Diddy lol

More people would rather want Dixie as her own fighter.

Me included, but the mechanic is an example of what I would go for for Revamping a Character, while still respecting the Original Design.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Unpopular opinion: I don't really think most of the old cast really need a major overhaul.

Changes I'd make to the old cast:

-Give Ganondorf a completely unique moveset. Make Black Shadow Captain Falcon's echo and give him Ganondorf's old moveset.
-Replace Mario's FLUDD with Cappy.
-Make each of Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon a separate character, give every Pokemon except Mewtwo a trainer.
-Give Chrom a new unique moveset. Make Lucina his echo. Make Roy Marth's echo.
-Give Young Link and Toon Link different subweapons so they aren't just using the same Bow/Bomb/Boomerang combo as Adult Link.
-Give Falco the Sniper Rifle and Wolf the Machine Gun from StarFox Assault.
-Expand the definition of Echo to include Dr. Mario and Pichu.

 

[Commander_Alph]

-Make each of Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon a separate character, give every Pokemon except Mewtwo a trainer.

Oh god, please don't make me remember that Korrina existed, I beg you I don't want to see Lucario ever again if that happened.


And also I prefer the Pokemon all by themselves, that's what makes the current Pokemon Trainer unique, but that's just my opinion. And I mean if you want to give a Pokemon their trainer then why don't pick a Pokemon that is heavily associated with their partner like Blue's Blastoise or Cynthia's Garchomp? That fit well more than that.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

There are times I wonder if the next Nintendo console will be backwards compatible, allowing Smash Ultimate as an option on the system and safely freeing up the next game in the series to be a genuine shake-up in terms of roster, movesets, or both. Essentially the old game (and its online infrastructure) would be there if the newer sequel was too much of a change for most players.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As far as the Echo Fighters go, I think:

• Dark Pit actually makes a ton of sense. The issue is less that his kit doesn't fit him, and more that as a separate character, he's expected to be a bit more different than a glorified pallet swap.
  • Also stop giving him the Dark Pit Staff in his character art if he's not gonna use it in his normal moveset.
• Lucina and Chrom make perfect sense in a vacuum, but together, they contradict one of their game's important plot points.
• Daisy makes sense as Peach's Echo Fighter, but being a straight copy & paste does leave in some oddities.
  • She shouldn't have any Toads, and since it's been established that her unique movement ability is different from Peach's, she probably shouldn't be floating either.
• Dark Samus is the biggest loser with her moveset ignoring her own abilities save for the Final Smash (which was mostly coincidental anyways) and giving her a bunch of stuff she's incapable of doing (or at least, is never shown to do).
• Richter is in Dark Pit's camp where everything makes sense, but as a separate character, he should play a little more differently than being more of a counter to Olimar and less of a counter to Snake and the Links.
• Ken is perfect.

Unpopular opinion: I don't really think most of the old cast really need a major overhaul. I definitely think there's some that could be touched up like Samus or maybe Kirby but outside of that, I just never really saw the "completely overhaul everyone" as an enticing enough incentive for a full blown reboot. I think most of the 64/Melee characters are fine as is, and over the years they've done a good enough job balancing between retaining their classic movesets while being updated to be more in line with their games (i.e DK getting his roll attack, Luigi using the Poltergust in his grabs/FS, etc).

While I think a lot of the older characters need a facelift to deal with design creep, I think most of them would end up fairly similar to how they started should such a facelift occur because of what their movesets already do right.

 

[Otoad64]

Me included, but the mechanic is an example of what I would go for for Revamping a Character, while still respecting the Original Design.

you see, in my opinion some of the "original designs" for characters are bad

like in smash, diddy kong is cold and calculating, and ganondorf is a brawler

 

[Commander_Alph]

Diddy Kong is cold and calculating

Since when? He's just your usual funny chimp both in Smash and DK but the real contender himself is DK, he lack the charisma and literally the manifestation of the "return to monke" meme, literally.