Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Deleted member]

I recognize that discussion about this has already passed us by, but I feel like I'm the only person who actively dislikes the idea of a transformation character. Like, even if we could just snap our fingers and magically conjure up three extra movesets for Young Link or whatever at no additional cost, I wouldn't want that.

Personally I think it would be pretty neat if done right. Have something like Arsene Joker where you fill up a meter and after you do it starts draining quickly, just with more than one "form."

If you do it wrong I could see a theoretical transformation character being really annoying to play against because either A) the hitboxes keep on changing and you have to adjust or B)the character has too many good moves and has what is essentially a toolbox of moves to kill you with

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I think their definition of iconic is "we said so"

If Nintendo acknowledging a character as "Iconic" the way they see them making it into Smash then hopefully it's a sign of things to come for Crash Bandicoot.

 

[Cosmic77]

Reminder

I'm not really sure any new character can become iconic within six months unless they were part of a meme or some type of popular fad. Even in the sense of Byleth being an iconic FE character, that's a little premature.

But we're overthinking this anyway. The guy who typed this was told to hype up Byleth, so that's what he did.

 

[Guynamednelson]

How mad would the internet get if we got another fire emblem character

Doesn't matter because anyone who thinks FE has a chance in FP2 is either desperate to be salty or see others be salty.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

The "this iconic fighter" description for Byleth's eshop page was simply part of a copy-pasted template used for most if not all the fighter pass characters. Don't think we need to look into it too much.

 

[Speed Weed]

Okay here's a quick question before I have to do other things:

What are some dark horse characters that are on your wishlist?(characters like Sephiroth who aren't really talked about but has a small chance anyway)

Without crossing into outright pipedream territory, I already mentioned him yesterday but someone I want who I think just might have a darkhorse shot at making it is Ryo from Shenmue. Shenmue's actually had a pretty ****ing big legacy that often just goes completely unmentioned, and it's not like it's this super obscure game that only matters because ackshually it was technically the first game ever to do X thing - it's popular enough that when the third game was announced, iirc it immediately became one of the most funded Kickstarter projects ever in like a day

 

[cashregister9]

She's definitely a sleeper pick. Her biggest flaw is really how muddled her origins are relative to other Smash characters - She's technically from a game, but some people debate if a full visual novel counts and that game contains actual pornographic content which would be a first for Smash; she's notable for the success of her phone game, but phone games really haven't been represented in Smash thus far, and Euden is the safer bet if Smash is going to dip its toes into phone game characters; and a lot of Westerners know her first and foremost from her anime series.

Also hurrdurr more anime swords.


I'll stan Kiryu til I die, but I think most people agree that Arle is more likely than Kiryu.

I would say Saber's origins would be an issue, if Type Moon kept acknowledging the lewd version of Stay Night, Every single rerelease and port since the original has been the censored version, so in that regard I would say it's no worse than knowing about Nintendo's Love Hotels. Even if for some reason that stops them, Grand Order has made a name for itself alone. The Visual Novel thing is still a bit contentious, but I would say that Visual Novels are video games and we already have Visual Novel spirits (Ayumi Tachibana)

I will take this post to shill Euden as well, seriously, Y'all are sleeping on him.

 

[SharkLord]

Without crossing into outright pipedream territory, I already mentioned him yesterday but someone I want who I think just might have a darkhorse shot at making it is Ryo from Shenmue. Shenmue's actually had a pretty ****ing big legacy that often just goes completely unmentioned, and it's not like it's this super obscure game that only matters because ackshually it was technically the first game ever to do X thing - it's popular enough that when the third game was announced, iirc it immediately became one of the most funded Kickstarter projects ever in like a day

I mainly remember Shenmue as the one reason Bloodstained isn't the highest-funded Kickstarter game. Well, that, and being the older brother to the Yakuza series

 

[Pillow]

In the speculation community, sure. Expanding outside toward general Smash players, and hell a lot of people within the speculation community are still guilty of this too, “cute” characters are always seen as lesser than “cool” characters as a rule of thumb.

If Puyo was still as big as it is now but it was a totally different genre, or had a different artstyle, it would be a much hotter topic for Smash than it currently is. So I believe Arle still falls under that umbrella looking beyond just the people here. That’s my logic, at least.

Are....are you trying to imply that Kiryu isn't cute? Cuz I'll fight you man, don't think I won't.

But yeah, I figured we were considering dark horse characters within the context of the speculation community. Historically, a lot of the top dogs of Smash speculation are completely unheard of by the general Smash community other than "that one character that is always speculated about for Smash". Geno & Isaac are such examples. KOS-MOS is a current example. Hell, even Fire Emblem was this way before Awakening.

I would say Saber's origins would be an issue, if Type Moon kept acknowledging the lewd version of Stay Night, Every single rerelease and port since the original has been the censored version, so in that regard I would say it's no worse than knowing about Nintendo's Love Hotels. Even if for some reason that stops them, Grand Order has made a name for itself alone. The Visual Novel thing is still a bit contentious, but I would say that Visual Novels are video games and we already have Visual Novel spirits (Ayumi Tachibana)

I will take this post to shill Euden as well, seriously, Y'all are sleeping on him.

I'll agree with this, though I'd like to point out that a lot of the undertones surrounding the Fate series as a whole are still overtly sexual, if not exactly pornographic in nature like the original VN was.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I would say Saber's origins would be an issue, if Type Moon kept acknowledging the lewd version of Stay Night, Every single rerelease and port since the original has been the censored version, so in that regard I would say it's no worse than knowing about Nintendo's Love Hotels. Even if for some reason that stops them, Grand Order has made a name for itself alone. The Visual Novel thing is still a bit contentious, but I would say that Visual Novels are video games and we already have Visual Novel spirits (Ayumi Tachibana)

The visual novel also never officially made its way outside Japan, so that's another wrinkle. If Saber happened, I'd imagine it would happen mostly because of Grand Order or whatever other games she's appeared in.

 

[Louie G.]

Historically, a lot of the top dogs of Smash speculation are completely unheard of by the general Smash community other than "that one character that is always speculated about for Smash". Geno & Isaac are such examples. KOS-MOS is a current example.

Of course, although I feel like Geno and Isaac have transcended their relative obscurity and reached the public consciousness a long time ago. Isaac being one of the more frequently pointed out Assist Trophies in Brawl, and Geno... I mean, Geno is from a Mario game. Not the most popular Mario game, but general Nintendo fans definitely know who he is - not to mention yeah, being one of the more frequent requests. I think the reactions to their respective disconfirmations are pretty telling of their status among the community at large.

KOS-MOS... yeah. She gets a surprising amount of attention for a character of her scale but most people don't know what the **** a Xenosaga is.

I put Arle pretty close to Terry territory. If you're not familiarized with puzzle games or don't stray far outside of games popular in the west, then you're probably not super familiar with Puyo Puyo or why it's worth giving a damn about. King of Fighters / Puyo Puyo are series that I think most people are aware of, but not well acquainted with overseas.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Nintendo will later reveal that their recent use of the term iconic was actually in reference to characters showing up on the icons for the Switch home menu.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Nintendo will later reveal that their recent use of the term iconic was actually in reference to characters showing up on the icons for the Switch home menu.

Neither Marth or Byleth is there, though.

Edit: If I read this wrong and you're saying they will later, oops. And also, yes.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Nintendo will later reveal that their recent use of the term iconic was actually in reference to characters showing up on the icons for the Switch home menu.

I don't think we have any Fire Emblem icons for the Switch home menu?

 

[Pillow]

Of course, although I feel like Geno and Isaac have transcended their relative obscurity and reached the public consciousness a long time ago. Isaac being one of the more frequently pointed out Assist Trophies in Brawl, and Geno... I mean, Geno is from a Mario game. Not the most popular Mario game, but general Nintendo fans definitely know who he is - not to mention yeah, being one of the more frequent requests. I think the reactions to their respective disconfirmations are pretty telling of their status among the community at large.

KOS-MOS... yeah. She gets a surprising amount of attention for a character of her scale but most people don't know what the **** a Xenosaga is.

I'll agee on the Geno and Isaac thing, but would like to point out that them moving out of obscurity is because of Smash speculation. Most people who know about Geno have never touched SMRPG, but know about his existence because of how vocal his speculation fanbase is - so my original point still stands. In fact, Geno's kind of proof that if the speculation community backs literally any character hard enough and for long enough period, then they'll become noteworthy among the general Smash community.

Maybe that's something to keep in mind for everyone supporting Elma or KOS-MOS or whoever right now. If they don't show up this DLC cycle, then just keep pushing for them til they show up like Ridley, K Rool, and Banjo did.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I don't think we have any Fire Emblem icons for the Switch home menu?

Not the generalized ones no, though the Three House leaders and Byleth do show up on the large icon for the 3H game.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

If Puyo was still as big as it is now but it was a totally different genre, or had a different artstyle, it would be a much hotter topic for Smash than it currently is. So I believe Arle still falls under that umbrella looking beyond just the people here. That’s my logic, at least.

That's so true. You would think that a 30 year old franchise with 27 million sales and who's close to Nintendo would be a pretty obvious pick for Smash, yet many on this site see Arle as a "darkhorse pick" despite being way bigger than Persona or Fatal fury is.

Just to clarify I'm not saying Arle is a lock, but it's just weird that she's often see as that super obscure pick when she's literally one of the most requested character in Japan.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Okay here's a quick question before I have to do other things:

What are some dark horse characters that are on your wishlist?(characters like Sephiroth who aren't really talked about but has a small chance anyway)

First parties that aren't the ones legal to talk about in modern speculation.

 

[Ivander]

I'll agree with this, though I'd like to point out that a lot of the undertones surrounding the Fate series as a whole are still overtly sexual, if not exactly pornographic in nature like the original VN was.

The really big sexual themes are mostly only Fate/Extra CCC and only a few of Grand Order's chapters and characters. The original Fate/Stay Night, aside from the scenes and Heaven's Feel, is pretty tame in terms of sexual stuff and Saber herself and the other Servants and characters have very tame designs.
And if Grand Order did get involved in something like Spirits or something, most of the Servants do have relatively tame designs and they can easily avoid the more risque designs.

 

[Pillow]

The really big sexual themes are mostly only Fate/Extra CCC and only a few of Grand Order's chapters and characters. The original Fate/Stay Night, aside from the scenes and Heaven's Feel, is pretty tame in terms of sexual stuff and Saber herself and the other Servants and characters have very tame designs.
And if Grand Order did get involved in something like Spirits or something, most of the Servants do have relatively tame designs and they can easily avoid the more risque designs.

Oh, for sure Saber or any of the content she brings with her probably wouldn't even have to be censored for Smash. I'm just saying I think that Fate, and to an extent its fanbase, exists in a pretty separate spheres from the ones Nintendo usually goes for. Like you could argue that Bayonetta is kinda sexual, and was still included in Smash, but a lot of her sexiness is kind of played out as a joke in her home series - which is not the case for Fate, which is anime waifu simulator through and through. A lot of Fate content is also rather dark and violent. I'm really only familiar with the anime series but Zero and UBW had some really grisly scenes. The issue only exists if Nintendo cares about the content matter of the home series itself, as Saber's base costume is actually pretty modest.

 

[SharkLord]

KOS-MOS... yeah. She gets a surprising amount of attention for a character of her scale but most people don't know what the **** a Xenosaga is.

In this essay I will explain why KOS-MOS gets so much discussion, why some consider her likely, and why some choose to write her off.

Monolith Software

That's it. That's the essay. We talk about her because MonoSoft loves her and keeps bringing her back. Some consider her likely because she's MonoSoft's mascot. Others consider her unlikely because MonoSoft is the only company who actively cares about her. One way or another, all KOS-MOS discussions will return to MonoSoft.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hey so

I wonder if we’ll at least get a partner showcase and or direct mini this month

idk why but I’m feeling the latter more esp since Zelda 35th anniversary

 

[chocolatejr9]

Hey so

I wonder if we’ll at least get a partner showcase and or direct mini this month

idk why but I’m feeling the latter more esp since Zelda 35th anniversary

Doesn't Pokemon usually do something in February?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Hey so

I wonder if we’ll at least get a partner showcase and or direct mini this month

idk why but I’m feeling the latter more esp since Zelda 35th anniversary

There will be a Pokemon anniversary thing for sure.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Hey so

I wonder if we’ll at least get a partner showcase and or direct mini this month

idk why but I’m feeling the latter more esp since Zelda 35th anniversary

Pokemon Day and 25th anniversary is February 27th

Expect a direct that week or in the middle of February.

 

[SKX31]

How I would fix the most broken character in the game (Hero)

-Remove the critical hit mechanic
-Remove Hocus Pocus
-Reduce launch power on Kafrizz
-Make the Zap spells reflectable
-very slightly reduce magic bursts range

That sounds like you're trying to make your own frustration come across as everyone's opinions when it isn't everyone's opinion, if I may be so bold. Besides, that would cripple a character that isn't considered OP / broken to begin with.

I'm not gonna say "Git gud" just yet: I recommend that you take advantage of the linear nature of his spells (attack from diagonally above / below, most of his spells don't reach there) and take advantage of his sluggish sword attacks. Up Smash in particular is really bad even with the Crit chance because it has no horizontal range. Easier said than done in a match, sure, but adaptating to what your opponent's doing is a major part of fighting games for a reason. Edit: This is far from as important in casual matches etc. granted, just reacted to the tone of the quoted post.

Hey so

I wonder if we’ll at least get a partner showcase and or direct mini this month

idk why but I’m feeling the latter more esp since Zelda 35th anniversary

As for partner showcase, direct mini or them returning to weekly reveals:

I could see one such event - or them restarting the weekly reveals thing in February. But March feels a tad liklier to me because of Nintendo might want to try to shift peoples' attention away from stuff that ends March 31st. Keywords being "try to", mind - I don't think they'll succeed in that regard if they attempt that because the stir surrounding limited availability was palpable. Even if Mario 3D AllStars sold really well.

 

[Ivander]

A lot of Fate content is also rather dark and violent. I'm really only familiar with the anime series but Zero and UBW had some really grisly scenes. The issue only exists if Nintendo cares about the content matter of the home series itself, as Saber's base costume is actually pretty modest.

The original Fate was frickin' dark as well. Not just with the main stories, but every time you died and got a Bad End, it would be in full detail, as if you got an actual ending and most of them are either very brutal or frickin' Nightmare Fuel. And some series in Nintendo have some grisly scenes as well, like the one Twilight Princess scene with the backstory.

 

[7NATOR]

Nintendo says 'major contributions' to their sales came from Pokemon and Smash Bros. DLC (destructoid.com)

210202e.pdf (nintendo.co.jp)

This is discussing the fact that the Sword and Shield Expansion pass and the Fighter Pass 2 DLC are dealing really good for Nintendo.

Reminder that Nintendo was the main reason DLC for Ultimate was a thing, as It was decided to have DLC without the developers knowledge. If they want to pull the trigger on FP3, they might do so

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Hey so

I wonder if we’ll at least get a partner showcase and or direct mini this month

idk why but I’m feeling the latter more esp since Zelda 35th anniversary

I'm thinking at least a partner showcase. Bravely Default 2 is coming out on the 26th, and Nintendo's been consistently advertising the game along the way. It seems right that we'd get something a little bigger than a trailer drop.

I could see Nintendo stuff waiting until March, but hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I've been wondering if Nintendo's basically been waiting for 3D World on Switch to release before shifting towards a week to week cycle of news/reveals. Basically maximizing social media attention on that game before launching into the first notable reveals for 2021, Pokémon and Zelda anniversaries included.

 

[RileyXY1]

In this essay I will explain why KOS-MOS gets so much discussion, why some consider her likely, and why some choose to write her off.

Monolith Software

That's it. That's the essay. We talk about her because MonoSoft loves her and keeps bringing her back. Some consider her likely because she's MonoSoft's mascot. Others consider her unlikely because MonoSoft is the only company who actively cares about her. One way or another, all KOS-MOS discussions will return to MonoSoft.

Except Monolith Soft would still have to get the Namco Bandai executives, Nintendo executives, and Sakurai all on board with her, and I don't know about that considering that Xenosaga was declared not profitable enough to warrant a remaster.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Okay here's a quick question before I have to do other things:

What are some dark horse characters that are on your wishlist?(characters like Sephiroth who aren't really talked about but has a small chance anyway)

Elma, and Nightmare are among those.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

In all seriousness I think people sleep on the possibility of an additional Xenoblade 1 character. Melia and Miss Spoiler would be solid picks in their own right, and the XB1 remake is currently the most recent Xenoblade title to boot. In general I believe a Xenoblade character remains the most likely first party choice, and there are like four separate options that would all be decently justified.

Like, I personally can't find the logic in skipping XB2 for another XB1 character (who would hopefully bring music from throughout the series anyway), but sometimes thinking about the illogical and unexpected is exactly what brings us closer to the truth, lmao. Worth acknowledging that we didn't get any new Xenoblade 1 music in base game (weird) and we're still missing proper arrangements.

Off-topic, but the precedence of all DLC characters coming from new/previously low-represented games or franchises seems like one that could easily be broken with one of the last 3 DLC character whether it would be thanks to a third-party character like Chun-Li or Eggman or a first-party character like Dixie or Bandana Dee. So somehow another Xenoblade 1 character would paradoxically be shocking in someways and yet unsurprising in other ways.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hey guys do you know that there's Mario porn owned by Nintendo and how they hire hentai artists for their games? How scandalous, remove every Nintendo character from Smash.


That's how people who say Saber can't get in because of the sex scenes in the original VN that got removed in rereleases sound like

 

[chocolatejr9]

Hey guys do you know that there's Mario porn owned by Nintendo and how they hire hentai artists for their games? How scandalous, remove every Nintendo character from Smash.


That's how people who say Saber can't get in because of the sex scenes in the original VN that got removed in rereleases sound like

I get what you're saying, but WHY DID YOU HAVE TO REMIND ME OF THE MARIO PORN OWNED BY NINTENDO?

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

While they said they have no plans after Season 2, I can definitely see a scenario where Nintendo announces a Season 3 Fighter Pass.

Were like what about halfway through the Nintendo Switch's life span? and it's still going strong? Most can see it going 3 more years or at "Max" 4 years.

Seeing how Super Smash Bros Ultimate is already over 20 million in sales and both passes have sold very well, Why not go for a 3rd and final season? Seeing how the future of Smash and Sakurai is still somewhat murky and there very likely isn't gonna be one for a long time, They have this massive install base and should strike while the iron is still hot and don't hold anything back.

This is "Ultimate" after all, Push the crossover aspect as much as they can and make it the most legal mess of an impossible Super Smash Bros game ever.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Hey guys do you know that there's Mario porn owned by Nintendo and how they hire hentai artists for their games? How scandalous, remove every Nintendo character from Smash.


That's how people who say Saber can't get in because of the sex scenes in the original VN that got removed in rereleases sound like

...

I just have to honestly wonder what you were thinking that lead you to asking this...

I'm never gonna get this mental image out of my head ever now...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

While they said they have no plans after Season 2, I can definitely see a scenario where Nintendo announces a Season 3 Fighter Pass.

Were like what about halfway through the Nintendo Switch's life span? and it's still going strong? Most can see it going 3 more years or at "Max" 4 years.

Seeing how Super Smash Bros Ultimate is already over 20 million in sales and both passes have sold very well, Why not go for a 3rd and final season? Seeing how the future Smash is somewhat murky and there isn't gonna be one for a long time, They have this massive install base and should strike while the iron is still really hot.

In addition, other games thought to have ended support had it resume all of a sudden. One case in point: Splatoon 2. Had its “final” Splatfest (Chaos vs Order) in July 2019, believed to affect Splatoon 3 like how Callie vs Marie affected 2. However, they reran three different splatfests last year and did a new splatfest last month, Super Mushroom vs Super Star for the Mario 35th anniversary. the in game dialogue even acknowledged “wasn’t Chaos vs Order supposed to be the final new Splatfest?”

like I said earlier, as long as the switch is still alive and kickin’ they can go back whenever, even if they gotta take a six month hiatus. 4 didn’t get more DLC cause well... the switch was about to overtake both the 3DS and Wii U within a year and a half

 

[Deleted member]

I get what you're saying, but WHY DID YOU HAVE TO REMIND ME OF THE MARIO PORN OWNED BY NINTENDO?

Wait, Gwen wasn't kidding ?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

...

I just have to honestly wonder what you were thinking that lead you to asking this...

Bruh I literally said why, cause people were saying Saber can't get in Smash because of sex scenes in a single game that don't get included in rereleases