Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I disagree with the claim that the Ganondorfs are too similar, but I do have to say that a small mask on a character who can face away from the camera is even worse than the "Advent Children Cloud, but without the sleeve" alt.

Masked Lucina would have short hair, though.

 

[Firox]

Poor Lucina

Exhibit A. Though, in her defense, her face, hair and generally slender frame make her easily identifiable as female. The funny thing is that when she was masquerading around as "Marth", it was impossible to know for sure due to the inherent ability of anime to make fully androgynous characters.

(Also props to her being able to magically hide all of that hair without visibly tying it into a bun or anything. Once she unmasks herself, her hair just instantly triples in length. Time travel magic. Pretty cool stuff.)

 

[Pillow]

Hilariously enough, this has always been my rule of thumb for anime, though it is worth pointing out that even that rule fails from time to time. While anime loves voluptuous women, they like to pepper in some surf boards to keep you guessing.

They'll also sometimes throw you a girl that's packing, like Poison. I find it best not to think about it, and leave these sort of thoughts to the post nut clarity.

Tron Shulk
Lucario in martial arts gi
Ice climbers wearing a different style of winter gear, like with hats instead of hoods
random Dr. Mario versions of characters that make no sense, like Fox
Sheik with a modern/futuristic alt kiind of like the treatment Kunimitsu got in Tekken 7

On the whole Ganondorf thing, my biggest issue with a Twilight Princess alt would be the proportions. OoT Ganondorf has legs for days and TP Ganondorf has short legs. That's not even getting into the posture situation. That alt would look really strange on Ganondorf's skeleton in Ultimate.

God damn would cyborg ninja sheik look cool.

That's a fair point on the Ganon thing. I agree that the proportion thing likely makes the costume unfeasible, but that's why we're here on an internet forum tossing ideas around and Sakurai is the one making the big bucks and deciding if something will work or not.

Those four are not in the same situation in terms of being distinguishable from the regular character.

• Advent Children Cloud has a coat, which significantly changes his silhouette around the lower body.
• Masked Lucina's mask is blue. Lucina already has a lot of blue near the top of her head because that's where her hair is, so it just blends in to that.
• Bearded Ryu is shirtless, changing the color of his upper body. His beard also gives him some black around his chin.
• Luigi's never worn a mask in Paper Mario. You may be thinking of the character Mr. L. If they were to add him as an alt to an entirely unrelated character for whatever reason, you could easily distinguish him by the fact that his outfit is almost entirely black.

Yeah, okay, I guess I see it. For the record, though, I had trouble distinguishing Ganon's alts from each other back in Smash 4, so...

Yeah, I dislike that, too.

Yes I meant Mr. L, and I think at this point you're just being picky about concepts you personally enjoy if you consider the Advent Children Cloud to be more distinct than Ryu with a beard. I'm not trying to change your mind about liking the idea, but Advent children Cloud is pretty much on par with most other suggested alternative costumes. Plus the original proposition is that they would be added as paid dlc, so no one would be forcing you to buy it.

Masked Lucina would have short hair, though.

Honestly, for masked Lucina specifically I think she would keep the long hair. Because then there actually could be some confusion if the character you're facing is Marth or Lucina, as masked Lucina looks more like Marth than Lucina.

 

[ahemtoday]

Yes I meant Mr. L, and I think at this point you're just being picky about concepts you personally enjoy if you consider the Advent Children Cloud to be more distinct than Ryu with a beard. I'm not trying to change your mind about liking the idea, but Advent children Cloud is pretty much on par with most other suggested alternative costumes. Plus the original proposition is that they would be added as paid dlc, so no one would be forcing you to buy it.

...Where did I imply AC Cloud was more distinct than bearded Ryu?

 

[Pillow]

...Where did I imply AC Cloud was more distinct than bearded Ryu?

I misread your statement, my bad. I guess that means that bearded Ryu is a costume you would be okay with.

 

[Ivander]

Poor Lucina

I would take Lucina's over the frickin' hot air balloons you could pop with a needle that some artists call breasts. looking at you, Raita

Venting aside, Lucina is far from a surf board as shown by her Masked Marth alt with Mia. The thing is though you can only notice them in their damaged art which is the only time Lucina's front is shown and not hiding behind her weapon.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Masked Lucina would have short hair, though.

I forgot about that. That does make it better than the "Advent Children Cloud, but without the sleeve" alt., but not by much. It's still extremely similar to default Lucina, and the short hair also makes her look even more similar to Marth.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Honestly, for masked Lucina specifically I think she would keep the long hair. Because then there actually could be some confusion if the character you're facing is Marth or Lucina, as masked Lucina looks more like Marth than Lucina.

I guess, but her clothes and sword would still be distinctly Lucina's. They wear similar clothes, but not that similar. If people can't tell the difference, I don't really know what to say.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I forgot about that. That does make it better than the "Advent Children Cloud, but without the sleeve" alt., but not by much. It's still extremely similar to default Lucina, and the short hair also makes her look even more similar to Marth.

To be fair, every single Sephiroth Alt with the exception of the Nakedroth alts look REALLY damn similar.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I remember reading that the translation for that was a bit iffy, and that in japanese he said something different. Similar to how in Sephiroth's presentation Sakurai originally said something like "people thinks we got 2 songs because it's Square's fault, but that's not the case". Or at least that's what I read not long ago.

Also I'm gonna share this four vignette story I just found on Twitter. It's very cute...

Original source:

Bringing Despair#smash #smashbros #FinalFantasyVII pic.twitter.com/OA6rOT6dvj

— Wooden Plank Studios (@WoodenPlank) January 27, 2021

Seems that didn't really work out too well for him.

 

[Pillow]

I guess, but her clothes and sword would still be distinctly Lucina's. They wear similar clothes, but not that similar. If people can't tell the difference, I don't really know what to say.

It might not matter, especially given that the character name is on full display and all and the announcer would call her Lucina, but game developers would want to make sure their characters are fully recognizable. It's better to make your game idiotproof, as most people are idiots.

 

[Firox]

To be fair, every single Sephiroth Alt with the exception of the Nakedroth alts look REALLY damn similar.

Gotta say, that's the one thing I absolutely despise about Seph in Smash Bros. He literally has the least amount of variety in his alts than any other character. Each tint is so painfully close to black that I gave up and just use the default skin when I play him because I'm too lazy to click the R button three times every time on the select screen for just a tinge of color.

 

[Perkilator]

I forgot about that. That does make it better than the "Advent Children Cloud, but without the sleeve" alt., but not by much. It's still extremely similar to default Lucina, and the short hair also makes her look even more similar to Marth.

Like I said earlier:

Here's a solution: changed Masked Lucina's P2-P8 colors to all of Marth's P2-P8 colors

There would also be a few cosmetic differences between normal Marth and Masked Lucina in this regard:

• P2 colors would have a red mask
• P3 colors would have a green mask
• P4 colors would give Masked Lucina blonde hair and a white mask
• P5 colors would give Masked Lucina brown hair
• P6 colors would more closely resemble Marth in Melee and Brawl
• P7 colors would have a yellow mask
• P8 colors would give Masked Lucina purple hair

 

[SKX31]

If anything the WTF character that got the least amount of hate was probably DHD. But, he was leaked along with other characters, so he wasn't really known last... and Dark Pit siphoned all the hate for himself.

Yeah, for some reason people genuinely thought that Dark Pit took the amount of work a full character would’ve and wasn’t just the team painting pit black and designing literally one move. It’s kinda hilarious Sakurai ever had to clarify this by creating the “echo” title, though it was a pretty smart move on his part. Chrom, a fire emblem echo of a clone character didn’t even receive any hate because of the echo thing.

Dark Pit's arrows do work differently than Pit's too (Pittoo's arrows are a bit stronger, Pit's arrows are more maneuverable), which is a kinda major difference between the two, but really, yeah, they could've done more to differentiate the two. Because the arrow difference only becomes apparent if one's getting to the point where suddenly Dark Pits start to hit like three consecutive arrows on you from way off stage while recovering at the same time - while you're asking how the **** he manages to do that.

Seems that didn't work out too well for him.

NGL, if the TGA trailer had two character reveals fused into one trailer, Doomguy would've been a great choice to follow up after Sephiroth's Final Smash (the idea is that the Final Smash would Shield Break Cloud, then the second character would come in). Other characters that I could see follow up on that would be characters like Scorpion, Reimu or Dante - who have fought God-like entities themselves (y'know, what Sephiroth comes close to becoming).

 

[Pillow]

NGL, if the TGA trailer had two character reveals fused into one trailer, Doomguy would've been a great choice to follow up after Sephiroth's Final Smash (the idea is that the Final Smash would Shield Break Cloud, then the second character would come in). Other characters that I could see follow up on that would be characters like Scorpion, Reimu or Dante - who have fought God-like entities themselves (y'know, what Sephiroth comes close to becoming).

Doomslayer taking on Sephiroth would've been cool as ****, though seeing Reimu take him down after he beat up the whole cast would've been hilarious. Technically speaking, Master Chief did take down a God since the aliens in his game worshiped Halo and he blew that up. If they ever do a combined character trailer for Ultimate, I hope it does a combined western and eastern pick (like Chief + Reimu) since just seeing these characters who have no business standing next to each other on the same screen makes me happy, and it'd be a good nod to what they did at E3 with Banjo and Hero.

 

[Firox]

Dark Pit's arrows do work differently than Pit's too (Pittoo's arrows are a bit stronger, Pit's arrows are more maneuverable), which is a kinda major difference between the two, but really, yeah, they could've done more to differentiate the two. Because the arrow difference only becomes apparent if one's getting to the point where suddenly Dark Pits start to hit like three consecutive arrows on you from way off stage while recovering at the same time - while you're asking how the **** he manages to do that.

To be fair, Dark Pit also has a Side B that behaves differently than Pit's, so that's two moves that are somewhat unique in their applications, but yeah, otherwise the two characters are pretty much identical in play style.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

To be fair, every single Sephiroth Alt with the exception of the Nakedroth alts look REALLY damn similar.

And again that's "but it is that way" in response to "it shouldn't be that way". Sephiroth's pallet swaps are pretty bad too. Less bad than Clouds since they don't have any that are almost, or are the exact same shade, but they're still kinda bad.

It might not matter, especially given that the character name is on full display and all and the announcer would call her Lucina, but game developers would want to make sure their characters are fully recognizable. It's better to make your game idiotproof, as most people are idiots.

This is where silhouettes come into play. This isn't really much of an issue with pallet swaps because they're the same character, but if different characters share a ton of visual similarities, they're probably going to need to have different postures and such. For example, if they were to add Bandana Waddle Dee, he should stand at attention with his spear at the side of his body, and not do as much wobbling as Kirby does. That way you can at least say "spear = Bandana Waddle Dee & no spear = Kirby". EDIT: This is as opposed to his normal idle animation, which is the same as Kirby's.

The Fire Emblem Lords could do with a onceover on their animations (like idles, running, etc.) so that they are more distinguishable. They're not quite the same and you generally have to be unfamiliar with the characters to confuse them, but they are very similar and could do with a bit more changes in that regard.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Doomslayer taking on Sephiroth would've been cool as ****, though seeing Reimu take him down after he beat up the whole cast would've been hilarious. Technically speaking, Master Chief did take down a God since the aliens in his game worshiped Halo and he blew that up. If they ever do a combined character trailer for Ultimate, I hope it does a combined western and eastern pick (like Chief + Reimu) since just seeing these characters who have no business standing next to each other on the same screen makes me happy, and it'd be a good nod to what they did at E3 with Banjo and Hero.

Bro

Reimu facing Sephiroth is a headcanon of mine, imagine him slicing through one spell card only for another harder one to pop up

fjofjfjksks

I NEED THIS.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sonic character voice actors and actresses are leaving voice roles

Smash Fans: This is a Smash hint!

No one was thinking it was a hint for once.

Not even 7NATOR did, and he's the guy who jumps at any opportunity to speculate about Shadow.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Bro

Reimu facing Sephiroth is a headcanon of mine, imagine him slicing through one spell card only for another harder one to pop up

fjofjfjksks

I NEED THIS.

OK now I want Reimu to have a portion where she battles the other characters (doesn't matter who) before any gameplay is shown so that Smash fans have this collective "oh no" moment as she unleashes a rain of bullets.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Seems that didn't really work out too well for him.

Spoilers for Doom Eternal: The Ancient Gods follows

I think it’s funny seeing some reactions to this saying that Sephiroth would beat Doom Slayer. Doom Slayer. The man who went and killed every demon on Mars, into hell itself to kill every demon there, teleport onto earth as the last line of defense, blows a hole in Mars just to fight more demons, finds out the Kahn Maykr is trying to resurrect the Icon of Sin, goes to heaven to kick her ass, Icon gets resurrected anyways, goes back to earth and kicks ITS ass, and after that he gets bored, fights more demons so that he can resurrect The Dark Lord which is basically Satan himself so that he can kick HIS ass, and the Slayer is so bad ass that The Dark Lord (which is the embodiment of the demons and humans biggest fears I might add) is ACTUALLY The Demonic Interpretation of the Slayer himself, and I’m sure in part 2 he goes and kicks The Dark Lords ass.

So, yeah. If there’s any character with the possibility in Smash that could kick Sephiroth’s ass it’s Isabelle’s Best Friend.

 

[Pillow]

Spoilers for Doom Eternal: The Ancient Gods follows

I think it’s funny seeing some reactions to this saying that Sephiroth would beat Doom Slayer. Doom Slayer. The man who went and killed every demon on Mars, into hell itself to kill every demon there, teleport onto earth as the last line of defense, blows a hole in Mars just to fight more demons, finds out the Kahn Maykr is trying to resurrect the Icon of Sin, goes to heaven to kick her ass, Icon gets resurrected anyways, goes back to earth and kicks ITS ass, and after that he gets bored, fights more demons so that he can resurrect The Dark Lord which is basically Satan himself so that he can kick HIS ass, and the Slayer is so bad ass that The Dark Lord (which is the embodiment of the demons and humans biggest fears I might add) is ACTUALLY The Demonic Interpretation of the Slayer himself, and I’m sure in part 2 he goes and kicks The Dark Lords ass.

So, yeah. If there’s any character with the possibility in Smash that could kick Sephiroth’s ass it’s Isabelle’s Best Friend.

If we're discussing character power levels based on their canon, would Sephiroth still be standing at the top? Isn't Kirby supposed to be some god-like entity that is only held back by being fat and lazy? There's also the pokemon trainer, who captures God in his ball in his own games. Bayonetta also can do some nutty stuff.

 

[Otoad64]

So, yeah. If there’s any character with the possibility in Smash that could kick Sephiroth’s ass it’s Isabelle.

fixed

 

[ahemtoday]

If we're discussing character power levels based on their canon, would Sephiroth still be standing at the top? Isn't Kirby supposed to be some god-like entity that is only held back by being fat and lazy? There's also the pokemon trainer, who captures God in his ball in his own games.

I've... never really been all that convinced of Kirby's power level. I gather most of it comes from the stuff he fights, but all that stuff looks impressive but I've never seen it really proven to be as strong as people say.

Also, he's canonically three inches tall.

 

[SharkLord]

If we're discussing character power levels based on their canon, would Sephiroth still be standing at the top? Isn't Kirby supposed to be some god-like entity that is only held back by being fat and lazy? There's also the pokemon trainer, who captures God in his ball in his own games.

Kirby canonically has infinite power, as stated by Kirby: Planet Robobot, so in terms of canonical feats, yes, Kirby is still the strongest.

I've... never really been all that convinced of Kirby's power level. I gather most of it comes from the stuff he fights, but all that stuff looks impressive but I've never seen it really proven to be as strong as people say.

Also, he's canonically three inches tall.

It's all because of this little bit of flavor text and the resulting conversation.

Spoiler

(Note that there's a couple swear words in there, which is why I'm spoilering it. If I need to edit those out, just let me know)

 

[SKX31]

fixed

I mean, Isabelle has a surprisingly strong matchup against (Pocket does wonders vs. Grenades), so you're not wrong. Sephiroth really doesn't want to throw out a flare vs. her.

It's all because of this little bit of flavor text and the resulting conversation.

Spoiler

(Note that there's a couple swear words in there, which is why I'm spoilering it. If I need to edit those out, just let me know)

One day, Kirby will turn on us all:

And it will be glorious (?).

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Pac-man eats actual ghosts sometimes. I don't know how that factors into the whole power-scaling idea, but I think it gets weird.

Ike obtains the power to kill a deity, but can still be killed be normal people.
Cloud beats Sephiroth depending on circumstance.
Kirby has infinite power, but he has to eat you.
Byleth is a sorta reincarnation of a dragon goddess.
Several FE characters have weapons specifically made to kill dragon gods., but again are still just people.
Bowser's power changes by the day and he's a dragon or a turtle that's probably based on a Chinese lion statue.
Sonic is stupidly fast.
Ganondorf has divine power and cunning, but consistently loses to a kid with a special sword.
All the Links have swords that would be super effective against most of the baddies, at least theoretically.

And that's not even getting into meme stuff, like Wii Fit Trainer's invincibility frames on some of her yoga moves.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

fixed

I mean, she probably learned stuff from his best pal.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Funny thing is respawning is canonical to Doom. I’m not even kidding. The demons realized there was no sure fire way to kills the Doom Slayer even with all their might and even when they thought he had died he would just come back to kill them. Their last ditch effort to be rid of him was to separate him and his armor and lock him into a sarcophagus. Not even joking here.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Funny thing is respawning is canonical to Doom. I’m not even kidding. The demons realized there was no sure fire way to kills the Doom Slayer even with all their might and even when they thought he had died he would just come back to kill them. Their last ditch effort to be rid of him was to separate him and his armor and lock him into a sarcophagus. Not even joking here.

Galeem is probably one of the few beings that could kill Doomguy.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Funny thing is respawning is canonical to Doom. I’m not even kidding. The demons realized there was no sure fire way to kills the Doom Slayer even with all their might and even when they thought he had died he would just come back to kill them. Their last ditch effort to be rid of him was to separate him and his armor and lock him into a sarcophagus. Not even joking here.

Well, there's one potential battle intro should the Slayer become a fighter.

 

[Pillow]

Sonic is stupidly fast.

I hope Sonic becomes the Flash of video games, with all the stupid ridiculous writing that comes with it.

...Sonic so fast he outran his own death
...Sonic so fast he ran to the retro Sonic dimension
...Sonic so fast he ran back in time...then killed Sonic Team so they never made 3D sonic games...then became more popular than Mario "Nuthin personnel kidd"

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Galeem is probably one of the few beings that could kill Doomguy.

Locking him in a spirit? Maybe. Killing him? Considering we just established respawning or resurrection of the Slayer is canonical to Doom that’s likely not possible.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Locking him in a spirit? Maybe. Killing him? Considering we just established respawning or resurrection of the Slayer is canonical to Doom that’s likely not possible.

Probably capturing him, but considering Kirby he would escape anyways.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...Sonic so fast he ran to the retro Sonic dimension

I give it 5 games for this to happen.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I hope Sonic becomes the Flash of video games, with all the stupid ridiculous writing that comes with it.

...Sonic so fast he outran his own death
...Sonic so fast he ran to the retro Sonic dimension
...Sonic so fast he ran back in time...then killed Sonic Team so they never made 3D sonic games...then became more popular than Mario "Nuthin personnel kidd"

That sounds like Archie Sonic.

 

[7NATOR]

I hope Sonic becomes the Flash of video games, with all the stupid ridiculous writing that comes with it.

...Sonic so fast he outran his own death
...Sonic so fast he ran to the retro Sonic dimension
...Sonic so fast he ran back in time...then killed Sonic Team so they never made 3D sonic games...then became more popular than Mario "Nuthin personnel kidd"

Honestly, I think Sonic would be less Popular than he is right now if he never went 3D

As much as people rag on Sonic's Implementation to 3D, It's for the best he did, since alot of series went 3D because it was the popular thing to do. The good thing about Sonic is that if you don't like the 2D Games, there is still the 3D Games for you to enjoy, and those 3D Games have specfic gameplay styles that could appeal to Different people

Now if you mean that kill the Sonic team that made the 3D sonic games in the first place, that doesn't work either, unless you want games like Galaxy to not exist anymore.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Locking him in a spirit? Maybe. Killing him? Considering we just established respawning or resurrection of the Slayer is canonical to Doom that’s likely not possible.

Which is a perfect setup for a trailer.

Galeem killed him like with everyone else, then after a transition, he starts hearing metal music.

 

[Pillow]

Honestly, I think Sonic would be less Popular than he is right now if he never went 3D

You're right, but I'm just gonna go ahead and reject the truth anyway.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

unless you want games like Galaxy to not exist anymore.

I find quotes like this quite funny because you're implying that Nintendo would never come up with the gravity mechanic if Sega didn't include it in ONE level of Sonic Adventure 2.