Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[7NATOR]

Actually, in regards to Sonic, I think it is possible that Sonic could beat Mario in Some areas

I remember that the New CEO of Sega said he was gonna try to make Sonic be able to beat Mario. While it is a Tall order, I think it's not impossible. Sonic needs to do the following things to do it

-Sonic Movie was a huge success, and there is a Cinematic universe in the making. Paramount needs to make sure the movies stay on the track of Success
-The Netflix Series is also a Big deal. Man of Action needs to bring their A-Game on this one
-The Comics are doing good
-Fan Content will always exist, and as long as Sega promotes it, It will be big Factor
-Mobile games are huge market for Sonic, so no problem them
-Sonic Team needs to get on a Consistent track of turning out Very quality games, perhaps ones that could be GOTY quality.
-Sega should perhaps do more of lending out the I.P to other Game Developers for more games. I know there's already speculation that they are doing this with Platinum games, and that Creative chief officer of Sega and Yakuza creator did say Sonic will have new Gameplay styles. This is apart of the reason Mario got to the heights that he did


Now I don't think Sonic will overtake Mario, Mario is way too big and Has more resources from Nintendo's Vault, but I think Sonic can compete with Mario if these following things do occur

 

[N3ON]

In reality Sonic only actually strongly competed with Mario for about two or three years in the early nineties. The rivalry which endured is really in name only.

And even then... I mean... Super Mario World is the better game.

There are some areas in which Sonic does "better" than Mario, and a lot of that has to do with the different management styles of Sega and Nintendo (which is also one of the bigger reason Mario in general does better), but as competitors... the gap has been pretty pronounced for almost the entirety of its existence.

 

[Pillow]

Actually, in regards to Sonic, I think it is possible that Sonic could beat Mario in Some areas

I remember that the New CEO of Sega said he was gonna try to make Sonic be able to beat Mario. While it is a Tall order, I think it's not impossible. Sonic needs to do the following things to do it

-Sonic Movie was a huge success, and there is a Cinematic universe in the making. Paramount needs to make sure the movies stay on the track of Success
-The Netflix Series is also a Big deal. Man of Action needs to bring their A-Game on this one
-The Comics are doing good
-Fan Content will always exist, and as long as Sega promotes it, It will be big Factor
-Mobile games are huge market for Sonic, so no problem them
-Sonic Team needs to get on a Consistent track of turning out Very quality games, perhaps ones that could be GOTY quality.
-Sega should perhaps do more of lending out the I.P to other Game Developers for more games. I know there's already speculation that they are doing this with Platinum games, and that Creative chief officer of Sega and Yakuza creator did say Sonic will have new Gameplay styles. This is apart of the reason Mario got to the heights that he did


Now I don't think Sonic will overtake Mario, Mario is way too big and Has more resources from Nintendo's Vault, but I think Sonic can compete with Mario if these following things do occur

I'll preface this by stating that I could very well be biased when it comes to the Sonic franchise, but no I don't think it'll ever happen, regardless of how many good Sonic games come out in the future. The main thing is the types of audiences they're aiming for. Mario's wackier cartoony non-existent plot games appeal to a much broader audience, and thus I feel the franchise itself has become more timeless. Apart from old school die-hard fans, Sonic games mainly are marketed towards pre-teen boys. Sonic and co. tend to have much more personality injected into them than Mario characters, because they are aiming for a specific audience over mass-appeal.

Mario's appeal is so broad that Nintendo has, very successfully, managed to slap Mario's face onto literally every type of game from sports games to racing games to tactical turn based top-down shooters and made them feel very naturally like Mario games.

 

[7NATOR]

I find quotes like this quite funny because you're implying that Nintendo would never come up with the gravity mechanic if Sega didn't include it in ONE level of Sonic Adventure 2.

That's not why I said that

A Good amount of some prominent people on Sonic team, when they made Games like Unleashed and Generations, would go ahead and help with Development of Galaxy (I don't know if only 2, or both 1 and 2), Odyseey, BOTW, etc

Maybe I should have reworded it, Because I think Galaxy still probably would have existed without Sonic team, but Sonic team did actually give their energy to Nintendo. There's the theory that with every Mario and Sonic Olympic title, more of Sonic team went to Nintendo for Mario

 

[PeridotGX]

Maxwell from Scribblenauts is one of the most powerful characters, unless you can kill him in the time it takes to write the word *dead", he's gonna win.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I will say though that going 3D isn't what killed Sonic. The Sonic Adventure games may have aged poorly, but they were considered good at the time. No, what killed Sonic was rushing Sonic the Hedgehog (2006). Sega would never have lived the romance bit down, but at least they wouldn't have had to course correct only for people to not completely vibe with that direction forcing another course correction with the same effect until the fanbase got torn to peices.

Maxwell from Scribblenauts is one of the most powerful characters, unless you can kill him in the time it takes to write the word *dead", he's gonna win.

This is how Jin (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) win.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly Mario and Sonic thrive at different things these days. Mario has left his stamp with so many successful spin-offs that some of the games that outdo his in terms of sales are multiplayer releases that also feature him (Mario Kart, Smash, etc). That along with a long string of really quality mainline titles means he's basically set in the gaming world.

Sonic's been effective at non-gaming media to an incredible degree. Comics, TV series, now a movie; whatever up and down quality his game series has had, its been a wealth of material in other forms. No other Western cartoon adaptation of a video game series has left a stronger legacy than SatAM, and that's saying something.

And really there's no reason that the Mario series couldn't have done the same other than Nintendo getting cold feet after the live action movie and essentially giving up on any non-game media outside a few mangas. Stuff like Pokémon and Kirby is the triumph of Game Freak and HAL Labs, as mainline Nintendo's been content to never let their game properties by anything more for the past 25 years even though stuff like Star Fox is begging for an EU to be explored.

 

[Cosmic77]

Sonic came closer than anyone, but Mario has left just about every character in the dust in terms of popularity, success, and iconicness.

There really aren't that many characters/franchises that truly gave Mario a run for its money, at least over a long amount of time. Sometimes it feels like people will take any platformer series that sold well and present it as something that really took a bite out of Nintendo's sales, causing them to really up their game and fight for the fans.

 

[Pillow]

Honestly Mario and Sonic thrive at different things these days. Mario has left his stamp with so many successful spin-offs that some of the games that outdo his in terms of sales are multiplayer releases that also feature him (Mario Kart, Smash, etc). That along with a long string of really quality mainline titles means he's basically set in the gaming world.

Sonic's been effective at non-gaming media to an incredible degree. Comics, TV series, now a movie; whatever up and down quality his game series has had, its been a wealth of material in other forms. No other Western cartoon adaptation of a video game series has left a stronger legacy than SatAM, and that's saying something.

And really there's no reason that the Mario series couldn't have done the same other than Nintendo getting cold feet after the live action movie and essentially giving up on any game media outside a few mangas. Stuff like Pokémon and Kirby is the triumph of Game Freak and HAL Labs, as mainline Nintendo's been content to never let their game properties by anything more for the past 25 years even though stuff like Star Fox is begging for an EU to be explored.

As much as I rag on about Sonic's personality being annoying, he at least has one. Of course Nintendo would never greenlight a Mario movie or tv series, the Mario franchise would need some semblance of lore and Mario would need to be given some type of personality. Now, I like Mario games a lot, but he's pretty much just become a mascot face that Nintendo slaps onto all their games.

Starfox, sure that could be cool. Though perhaps Nintendo would be worried that the series they killed is somehow struggling to remain relevant.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I mean the Mario animated movie at least suggest that Nintendo is warming up to the idea of adaptations somewhat. As far as personality and tone, I actually think the Nintendo Power comic version of Mario did a great job with the entire cast and was genuinely funny to boot. Why they never tried to spin off comic line out of that I'll never know.

 

[Aboyd]

In that timeline, Nintendo:

• Paid to bring back Captain Falcon's voice actor to record slurping noises for a trailer.
• Paid Cloud's Japanese voice actor to record lines for Sephiroth's trailer, and a new Final Smash while they're at it.
• Refused to keep the Palutena's Guidance voice actors around for that feature.
• Refused to add English voice acting to Cloud and Sephiroth.
• Paid to replace Sonic's current voice lines.

I would really start to question their priorities there.

The reason Cloud doesn’t have English voice acting is a bit complex:

• Smash is a non-union voice acting game. This determines which voice actors they can hire, most of which are also non-union.
• The laws for union voice actors states they cannot work on a non-union project unless they go uncredited (like Antonio for Pit) or go with a nickname. Otherwise, they could be recast (like Palutena)
• Steve Burton’s contract states he is the only English voice actor for Cloud (VII remake has a spoilery loophole) and must be credited by his given name.

Long story short: It was completely out of Nintendo’s power to hire him

 

[7NATOR]

As much as I rag on about Sonic's personality being annoying, he at least has one. Of course Nintendo would never greenlight a Mario movie or tv series, the Mario franchise would need some semblance of lore and Mario would need to be given some type of personality. Now, I like Mario games a lot, but he's pretty much just become a mascot face that Nintendo slaps onto all their games.

Starfox, sure that could be cool. Though perhaps Nintendo would be worried that the series they killed is somehow struggling to remain relevant.

Speaking of Starfox, did you guys hear about the rumors of a Zelda and Starfox Netflix series being planned, but Canceled by Nintendo?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Of course Nintendo would never greenlight a Mario movie or tv series, the Mario franchise would need some semblance of lore and Mario would need to be given some type of personality.

Should I tell them about the Illumination movie?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The reason Cloud doesn’t have English voice acting is a bit complex:

• Smash is a non-union voice acting game. This determines which voice actors they can hire, most of which are also non-union.
• The laws for union voice actors states they cannot work on a non-union project unless they go uncredited (like Antonio for Pit) or go with a nickname. Otherwise, they could be recast (like Palutena)
• Steve Burton’s contract states he is the only English voice actor for Cloud (VII remake has a spoilery loophole) and must be credited by his given name.

Long story short: It was completely out of Nintendo’s power to hire him

Then Steve Burton (and George Newbern, Sephiroth’s original English VO) retired before Remake so...

Speaking of Starfox, did you guys hear about the rumors of a Zelda and Starfox Netflix series being planned, but Canceled by Nintendo?

IM STILL SALTY ABOUT THE STARFOX SHOW BEING CANCELED

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Then Steve Burton (and George Newbern, Sephiroth’s original English VO) retired before Remake so...

IM STILL SALTY ABOUT THE STARFOX SHOW BEING CANCELED

At the very least we needed an official version of Fantastic Mr Star Fox:

 

[Pillow]

Should I tell them about the Illumination movie?

After some googling, I stand corrected. Though I'm just gonna amend it to, there's no way Nintendo would hand out Mario, the face of their entire brand, unless they could heavily control every aspect of the project. I very much doubt Mario will do much talking in this movie outside of his usual pre-recorded lines. SEGA is much more cavalier about loaning out the Sonic IP if the first iteration of Sonic from his recent live action is any indication.

Speaking of Starfox, did you guys hear about the rumors of a Zelda and Starfox Netflix series being planned, but Canceled by Nintendo?

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I just don't find the prospect a Starfox universe thing to be that exciting. I loved the **** out of Starfox 64, but have been pretty lukewarm about the franchise since then...but really apart from everyone being talking animals there's not much to set itself apart from any other sci-fi setting.

No Zelda series is a tragedy though, tons of potential there.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Bro

if they make a ****ing like F-Zero 3D CGI anime on Netflix that’s faithful to X/GX and then it gets canceled cause some idiots decided to leak it I will literally cry

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Though I'm just gonna amend it to, there's no way Nintendo would hand out Mario, the face of their entire brand, unless they could heavily control every aspect of the project.

Oh definitely. It's still a major event when any 3rd party does anything with a Nintendo IP.

Though they are a bit inconsistent seeing as how they're like "no you can't have OCs" and then turn around and go "this Bowser moveset is kinda boring. Go crazy with it".

 

[DarthEnderX]

"Deserving" is just a buzzword for "I like this/I don't like this but will try to make myself look good to internet forums"

"[blank] is just a buzzword for "I like/dislike this"" is just a buzzword for "I'm too lazy to debate any term that's not easily quantifiable".

 

[N3ON]

Nintendo is gradually loosening their vice-grip over their properties. But very incrementally. They got burned when NoA had more autonomy and made some less than stellar decisions with licensing the IP in the 90s, and now Nintendo's number one priority, even seemingly above profit, is to retain the value of their properties. They're not wrong in knowing that it is their greatest asset.

And therein they are highly, highly selective and severe about licensing. To the point of being draconian. To the point of, what you could argue, is overcorrection for their past mistakes. And I'm sure those who do acquire the license to make a product are under heavy restrictions and guidelines.

I mean, look at like... Funko Pops, for example. They've acquired the license to damn near everything, including Disney stuff, and still Nintendo content (other than Pokemon) eludes them. Remember that when Sony are considered the stingy ones for not collaborating.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Look, what I'm hearing is
There's still a chance of a Metroid series.

 

[Pillow]

Oh definitely. It's still a major event when any 3rd party does anything with a Nintendo IP.

Though they are a bit inconsistent seeing as how they're like "no you can't have OCs" and then turn around and go "this Bowser moveset is kinda boring. Go crazy with it".

"Contact Ubisoft, I've got a great idea for their Rabbids!" shouted the Nintendo executive as he crushed a fat line over Princess Peach's peach. "Oh and while you're at it tell Sakurai to add IDOLM@STER to Smash!"

Nintendo is gradually loosening their vice-grip over their properties. But very incrementally. They got burned when NoA had more autonomy and made some less than stellar decisions with licensing the IP in the 90s, and now Nintendo's number one priority, even seemingly above profit, is to retain the value of their properties. They're not wrong in knowing that it is their greatest asset.

And therein they are highly, highly selective and severe about licensing. To the point of being draconian. To the point of, what you could argue, is overcorrection for their past mistakes. And I'm sure those who do acquire the license to make a product are under heavy restrictions and guidelines.

I mean, look at like... Funko Pops, for example. They've acquired the license to damn near everything, including Disney stuff, and still Nintendo content (other than Pokemon) eludes them. Remember that when Sony are considered the stingy ones for not collaborating.

Tbh, I think a lot of Disney's bad reputation around here is just because of Kingdom Hearts. They're not THAT stingy with their IP, so long as the borrowed IP appears as they usually do. IIRC, they've actually been very generous with Star Wars. KH is a weird case because of how heavily integrated the Disney stuff is, while also being an anime-esque action game.

Funko Pops really went hard with their acquisitions though. I got a ****ing Kevin from Home Alone figurine last Christmas.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Nintendo is gradually loosening their vice-grip over their properties. But very incrementally. They got burned when NoA had more autonomy and made some less than stellar decisions with licensing the IP in the 90s, and now Nintendo's number one priority, even seemingly above profit, is to retain the value of their properties. They're not wrong in knowing that it is their greatest asset.

I guess if there ever was a one two punch to explain Nintendo's strict policies with IP's, 1993 would be it:

Spoiler

 

[N3ON]

Tbh, I think a lot of Disney's bad reputation around here is just because of Kingdom Hearts. They're not THAT stingy with their IP, so long as the borrowed IP appears as they usually do. IIRC, they've actually been very generous with Star Wars. KH is a weird case because of how heavily integrated the Disney stuff is, while also being an anime-esque action game.

Star Wars and Marvel are big licensing whores, and always have been. I'm sure somewhere out there there's like... a Star Wars pregnancy test.

The other Disney stuff seems to fluctuate where it seems some is easier to license than others. I mean there's no shortage of Frozen merch out there. But on the other hand, there's also Kingdom Hearts pops. I mean, I'm not saying Disney will let them make Br'er Rabbit, but it really was just a basis of how another company particular about its character use cooperates more than Nintendo.

I'm sure Funko has obtained the license to stuff more difficult to negotiate than Disney, it's just that my scope of knowledge is mostly gaming-based. Though they haven't gotten stuff like Final Fantasy, and I'm sure they've tried for that.

I guess if there ever was a one two punch to explain Nintendo's strict policies with IP's, 1993 would be it:

Spoiler

View attachment 301763

That was what I had in mind, yes.

Remember when you were little, and you really hadn't developed the ability to discern the quality of the movies and shows you were watching? Well even as a dumb kid, I remember thinking that that was one bad movie, lol. That's how you know you ****ed up. When even the kids can tell.

 

[Digital Hazard]

"[blank] is just a buzzword for "I like/dislike this"" is just a buzzword for "I'm too lazy to debate any term that's not easily quantifiable".

What would "deserving" mean then? I have doubt when looking at choices for the roster, they look at the at the characters as a collection of prizes or something. Yeah, we have plenty of legendary icons to the industry, there is no doubt to that, but then you see we have a Piranha Plant, the Ice Climbers, Dark Pit or characters that were included simply because of recency like Ike, Lucario, Greninja or Corrin rather than any impact; yes those two Pokémon are some of the most popular ever, but Greninja was picked from concept art and taking in mind Brawl's development, Lucario had to be picked around the time Gen IV was being marketed around.

And even then, when Steve was revealed there were people claiming he doesn't "deserves" to be in because "he's a blank slate that you can re-skin by five minutes!"

I get we are not an echo chamber and everyone can have their own opinion, but "deserving" is one of the most subjective terms applied by the community when there's no general consensus of what is truly "deserving".

 

[N3ON]

'Deserving' is one of those things not worth debating due to subjectivity, like 'iconic'.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Ironically the best kind of competition to decide who's most deserving to to be in Smash?

Spoiler

A game of Smash Bros.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The embargo on Super Nintendo World footage lifted today it seems, some people have got videos of the theme park.

 

[cashregister9]

Super Nintendo World opened today it seems, some people have got videos of the theme park.

Quick Clarification

It's not open, Japan is still on a state of emergency, The Embargo for videos and articles lifted today on what would have been the opening. and it had a soft opening about 2-3 months ago

 

[Otoad64]

Ironically the best kind of competition to decide who's most deserving to to be in Smash?

Spoiler

A game of Smash Bros.

this gave me an idea.

sakurai shows a bunch of potential newcomer, runs a tournament where each player chooses a character to run for, and the one that wins is the only one added

 

[Pillow]

What would "deserving" mean then? I have doubt when looking at choices for the roster, they look at the at the characters as a collection of prizes or something. Yeah, we have plenty of legendary icons to the industry, there is no doubt to that, but then you see we have a Piranha Plant, the Ice Climbers, Dark Pit or characters that were included simply because of recency like Ike, Lucario, Greninja or Corrin rather than any impact; yes those two Pokémon are some of the most popular ever, but Greninja was picked from concept art and taking in mind Brawl's development, Lucario had to be picked around the time Gen IV was being marketed around.

And even then, when Steve was revealed there were people claiming he doesn't "deserves" to be in because "he's a blank slate that you can re-skin by five minutes!"

I get we are not an echo chamber and everyone can have their own opinion, but "deserving" is one of the most subjective terms applied by the community when there's no general consensus of what is truly "deserving".

Not that I disagree with you or anything, but the user in particular you're arguing with views Smash as a video game character museum of sorts. To wit, he believes that some of the characters you mentioned (like Plant) that are already in Smash, did not deserve to be in Smash. If you viewed Smash through the same lens then "deserving" pretty much becomes synonymous with "is iconic, has a legacy, has recognizability and is popular".

this gave me an idea.

sakurai shows a bunch of potential newcomer, runs a tournament where each player chooses a character to run for, and the one that wins is the only one added

RIP characters popular in regions other than Japan and North America.

 

[SNEKeater]

Maxwell from Scribblenauts is one of the most powerful characters, unless you can kill him in the time it takes to write the word *dead", he's gonna win.

Light Yagami liked this post.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Not that I disagree with you or anything, but the user in particular you're arguing with views Smash as a video game character museum of sorts. To wit, he believes that some of the characters you mentioned (like Plant) that are already in Smash, did not deserve to be in Smash. If you viewed Smash through the same lens then "deserving" pretty much becomes synonymous with "is iconic, has a legacy, has recognizability and is popular".


RIP characters popular in regions other than Japan and North America.

Nah, his basic view of the word "deserving" is basically every game released in the 90s/80s, should be a main character, on a Nintendo console and have many games (in a nutshell) because even if you lack the presence and quality at least you are old enough to join

 

[Louie G.]

sakurai shows a bunch of potential newcomer, runs a tournament where each player chooses a character to run for, and the one that wins is the only one added

It would be the most disheartening thing ever to be presented with a character I really want, dangled over my head with a very real chance of actually being in the game, only to have that ripped away when they inevitably lose the tournament.

 

[Otoad64]

It would be the most disheartening thing ever to be presented with a character I really want, dangled over my head with a very real chance of actually being in the game, only to have that ripped away when they inevitably lose the tournament.

oh but don't worry, all the other candidates get mii costumes!



bold of you to assume the characters are ones you want tho

 

[Commander_Alph]

this gave me an idea.

sakurai shows a bunch of potential newcomer, runs a tournament where each player chooses a character to run for, and the one that wins is the only one added

I sure hope that the pro player won't join the tournament because for sure there's a power gap

 

[N3ON]

Not that I disagree with you or anything, but the user in particular you're arguing with views Smash as a video game character museum of sorts. To wit, he believes that some of the characters you mentioned (like Plant) that are already in Smash, did not deserve to be in Smash. If you viewed Smash through the same lens then "deserving" pretty much becomes synonymous with "is iconic, has a legacy, has recognizability and is popular".

It is sort of like a museum. It's just... a museum where sometimes the curator just adds whatever he wants, often they ask the patrons what they want to see, and the financiers give an exhibit to a subject that otherwise wouldn't receive one because they want to drive business to another building they own down the street. So... it's a shaky metaphor.

His idea is like if the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame didn't extend past the 60s. Or if the Baseball Hall of Fame didn't extend past the 30s. Or if the Louvre was like, "**** it, we don't need anything past antiquity".

RIP characters popular in regions other than Japan and North America.

Not that different from how it is currently tbh.

 

[Pillow]

Nah, his basic view of the word "deserving" is basically every game released in the 90s/80s, should be a main character, on a Nintendo console and have many games (in a nutshell) because even if you lack the presence and quality at least you are old enough to join

**** Battletoads. All my homies hate Battletoads.

Not that different from how it is currently tbh.

Hey, Latin Americans got Terry and Europeans got Steve! We just need Spyro for Australians and Winnie the Pooh for China now.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What would "deserving" mean then?

THAT'S the mystery. Oooooh...

Nah, his basic view of the word "deserving" is basically every game released in the 90s/80s, should be a main character

Nah, there's plenty of garbage games from that era that don't deserve to get in. Some of which already ARE in(lookin at you...ICE CLIMBERS).

Also, **** Hydlide. Also Athena.

 

[N3ON]

Hey, Latin Americans got Terry and Europeans got Steve! We just need Spyro for Australians and Winnie the Pooh for China now.

Yeah but we didn't get those characters because of those regions. They just happen to have been popular there too.

Also an animal mascot platformer to cater to Australia and you don't pick Ty the Tasmanian Tiger? Get your **** together.