Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Ivander]

I'm not familiar with Cipher, but damn would that Corrin look nice in Smash. I love the Valkyrie look of the girl Corrin especially.

Card game in Japan. Basically, all the cards are drawn by artists, so it's a gold mine for potential costumes and whatnot much like Fire Emblem Heroes.

 

[h2ogre]

Ive been hearing alot of talk about Lloyd and Yuri taking up the same slot in the fighters pass. I dont get how that works. Lloyd has 2 swords, Yuri has one. she wouldnt really be an alt for lloyd with one sword

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm not familiar with Cipher, but damn would that Corrin look nice in Smash.

Wait what?

looks back

Oh, I thought that was a Xander costume. lol

Im just saying the pattern holds up despite what nintendo has said. And when did devil may cry get put on switch. if it was after november 2018 then what i said still holds up

Ah, the crucial blunder of not reading everything word for word. Sorry for that.

Still, I don't think it matters. Even if it was after Nintendo would probably still know about them. That and it doesn't make any sense for there to be a rule in place when they said there wasn't. There is something to be said about advertising for Ninendo console stuff, but if that's the reason for it then we wouldn't have Joker or Banjo & Kazooie since the former puts a Playstation game front and center, and the latter is on a console they don't sell anymore, and they even went as far as to directly promote the X Box.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ive been hearing alot of talk about Lloyd and Yuri taking up the same slot in the fighters pass. I dont get how that works. Lloyd has 2 swords, Yuri has one. she wouldnt really be an alt for lloyd with one sword

Yuri’s a guy, FYI

 

[Pillow]

Card game in Japan. Basically, all the cards are drawn by artists, so it's a gold mine for potential costumes and whatnot much like Fire Emblem Heroes.

Yeah, I knew what it was, I just didn't know anything beyond the fact that it was a card game and that it existed.

Continuing on the costume discussion, what original costumes not taken from other games do you guys think would be cool to see? Like a a Neo-Geo Rob, or Pikachu in a Tanuki costume, or Isabelle wearing the Doomslayer's suit.

Ive been hearing alot of talk about Lloyd and Yuri taking up the same slot in the fighters pass. I dont get how that works. Lloyd has 2 swords, Yuri has one. she wouldnt really be an alt for lloyd with one sword

Anyone who claims these characters can be alts of each other is completely unfamiliar with these characters. It simply wouldn't work.

 

[ahemtoday]

I've... never really cared about cosmetics, or unlocking alternate costumes, or anything like that. And I especially have never cared about customizing my character. And that's very much a minority opinion, so I always feel weird when a conversation like this comes up.

I guess my number one priority with costumes is that I can actually tell which one's which when it's zoomed out. No, Lucina shouldn't have an alt with her mask on. That's just Pac-Man's alt costumes, but even harder to tell apart. I feel the same way about Twilight Princess Ganon or Link, and a whole bunch of other concepts people like to present.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ive been hearing alot of talk about Lloyd and Yuri taking up the same slot in the fighters pass. I dont get how that works. Lloyd has 2 swords, Yuri has one. she wouldnt really be an alt for lloyd with one sword

Yeah, the general consensus here is that Yuri would not work over Lloyd and vice versa.

The vast majority of characters don't imo. Even characters that do the same things often have a radically different personality that would require different animations to portray.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Howdy folks!

I'm still kickin' over here, haven't posted in a while. I'll make sure to stop by tonight or tomorrow to give my thoughts on speculation. I've been out of the loop since Sephiroth. Knowing how speculation goes, I'm assuming I've missed out on a lot.

 

[Perkilator]

No, Lucina shouldn't have an alt with her mask on. That's just Pac-Man's alt costumes, but even harder to tell apart.

Here's a solution: changed Masked Lucina's P2-P8 colors to all of Marth's P2-P8 colors

 

[I.D.]

This is kinda old news but whatever, thought it'd be fun to share. Did you know the most popular figure on Japan's biggest online figure retailer for 2020 was a Nintendo figure of all things? Can you guess what character it was?

Spoiler

https://www.reddit.com/r/Xenoblade_Chronicles/comments/lbof4w

Maybe my joke posts from 2019 and 2020 weren't as much of a joke as I thought...

 

[SharkLord]

Remember when people were saying that we'd have the composite ARMS rep?

Yeah, that wouldn't really work. I'm glad we got a personalized Min Min over a watered-down version of four separate fighters.

 

[Pillow]

I've... never really cared about cosmetics, or unlocking alternate costumes, or anything like that. And I especially have never cared about customizing my character. And that's very much a minority opinion, so I always feel weird when a conversation like this comes up.

I guess my number one priority with costumes is that I can actually tell which one's which when it's zoomed out. No, Lucina shouldn't have an alt with her mask on. That's just Pac-Man's alt costumes, but even harder to tell apart. I feel the same way about Twilight Princess Ganon or Link, and a whole bunch of other concepts people like to present.

Except characters have costumes that are entirely different characters. Twilight Ganondorf and Masked Lucina are clearly closer to the original than Enderman is to Steve.

Yeah, the general consensus here is that Yuri would not work over Lloyd and vice versa.

The vast majority of characters don't imo. Even characters that do the same things often have a radically different personality that would require different animations to portray.

I'm kinda torn here. I agree with the personality portrayal thing, but on the other hand I think if we can get every Koopaling and Alph, then getting Roxas or all the Metal Slug Squad wouldn't stretch it too far either.

Remember when people were saying that we'd have the composite ARMS rep?

Yeah, that wouldn't really work. I'm glad we got a personalized Min Min over a watered-down version of four separate fighters.

Only people who were completely unfamiliar with ARMS ever thought this.

 

[ahemtoday]

Except characters have costumes that are entirely different characters. Twilight Ganondorf and Masked Lucina are clearly closer to the original than Enderman is to Steve.

I... Yes. Yes, they are. I don't... understand the relevance that has to anything I said, however.

 

[Firox]

Yuri’s a guy, FYI

I can see where he might have gotten confused. There are a lot of feminine-looking men in the Tales series....(cough) Emile (cough)..

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I can see where he might have gotten confused. There are a lot of feminine-looking men in the Tales series....(cough) Emile (cough)..

Ok but Ion tho, I LITERALLY thought he was a girl when I first saw him

 

[Pillow]

I... Yes. Yes, they are. I don't... understand the relevance that has to anything I said, however.

I thought you were claiming that masked Lucina, and other alternate costumes would be too hard to recognize. I was arguing against that claim, saying that they wouldn't be any harder to recognize than most of the existing costumes already in the game. If I misunderstood, then I apologize.

 

[Otoad64]

Remember when people were saying that we'd have the composite ARMS rep?

Yeah, that wouldn't really work. I'm glad we got a personalized Min Min over a watered-down version of four separate fighters.

that would be like if Luigi, Wario and Waluigi were alts of Mario

 

[Firox]

Ok but Ion tho, I LITERALLY thought he was a girl when I first saw him

So I didn't know who Ion was and decided to Google him........yeah, gonna have to take your word for it that that's a guy....

The gown and pigtails don't exactly scream masculinity.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I feel the same way about Twilight Princess Ganon or Link, and a whole bunch of other concepts people like to present.

The two Ganondorfs are really distinct from each other though:

Spoiler

The two Links are a bit less so, but the current alternate Link costume and previous Link incarnation do have different color schemes, so it just depends on if they're different enough.

I'm kinda torn here. I agree with the personality portrayal thing, but on the other hand I think if we can get every Koopaling and Alph, then getting Roxas or all the Metal Slug Squad wouldn't stretch it too far either.

Personally, I don't like the Koopalings as alts., and I think Alph at least has missed potential so...they're kinda 1.5-2 on ideas that I don't like.

 

[ahemtoday]

I thought you were claiming that masked Lucina, and other alternate costumes would be too hard to recognize. I was arguing against that claim, saying that they wouldn't be any harder to recognize than most of the existing costumes already in the game. If I misunderstood, then I apologize.

The exact opposite. They're too hard to distinguish.

 

[SharkLord]

I can see where he might have gotten confused. There are a lot of feminine-looking men in the Tales series....(cough) Emile (cough)..

Ok but Ion tho, I LITERALLY thought he was a girl when I first saw him

Anime is a Japanese conspiracy theory created to destroy our ability to recognize sexual dimorphism in humans

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Remember when people were saying that we'd have the composite ARMS rep?

Yeah, that wouldn't really work. I'm glad we got a personalized Min Min over a watered-down version of four separate fighters.

I never thought it was likely given how hard it would be to show their distinct personalities through their animations if they were all costumes, which is the only reason why isn’t an alternate costume.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So I didn't know who Ion was and decided to Google him........yeah, gonna have to take your word for it that that's a guy....

The gown and pigtails don't exactly scream masculinity.

Wait till you hear his voice. It’s LITERALLY A GIRLS VOICE

 

[ahemtoday]

The two Ganondorfs are really distinct from each other though:

Spoiler

View attachment 301710View attachment 301711

The two Links are a bit less so, but the current alternate Link costume and previous Link incarnation do have different color schemes, so it just depends on if they're different enough.

...I'm sorry to say, but these two designs read as quite similar zoomed in as far as we are. There is no way I would be able to distinguish these effectively with the camera as far back as it is in gameplay.

 

[Pillow]

The exact opposite. They're too hard to distinguish.

Well then, I understand that argument even less. I'm not sure why that would be an issue when we have alts like the ones Cloud and Sonic have, on top of the fact that these costumes would be clear nods to their original games which would make fans of those respective series happy.

Anime is a Japanese conspiracy theory created to destroy our ability to recognize sexual dimorphism in humans

Wait till you hear his voice. It’s LITERALLY A GIRLS VOICE

Well there's a lot of guys voiced by girl VA's. Not just for the ones that look like girls, but mostly girl VA's seem to fit male characters in their teens or younger.

 

[cashregister9]

Anime is a Japanese conspiracy theory created to destroy our ability to recognize sexual dimorphism in humans

I can't believe it Anime is Based!

 

[Perkilator]

Wait till you hear his voice. It’s LITERALLY A GIRLS VOICE

"First time?"

 

[ahemtoday]

Well then, I understand that argument even less. I'm not sure why that would be an issue when we have alts like the ones Cloud and Sonic have, on top of the fact that these costumes would be clear nods to their original games which would make fans of those respective series happy.

Yeah, and does anyone like Sonic and Cloud's alts (besides his Advent Children one)?

 

[Knight Dude]

I'm not exactly miffed about the Koopaling thing myself. Cause I honestly only like 2 of them as it is with Iggy and Roy.

I get that having another character strictly as a costume can suck tho.

One thing that I'd be happy to see in more fighting games in general is a color edit mode, like CVS2 and Soul Calibur 3. But I think the inter-company nature of the roster is gonna make that too hard since guys like Sonic aren't allowed to be any color but blue, and Pac-Man with yellow.

 

[Pillow]

Yeah, and does anyone like Sonic and Cloud's alts (besides his Advent Children one)?

People like the Advent Children one because it references Advent Children. Likewise, I'd bet people would like masked Lucina for referencing Awakening, Bearded Ryu for referencing SFV, or Masked Luigi for referencing Paper Mario even if they are not as visually distinct as a color palette swap.

I'm not exactly miffed about the Koopaling thing myself. Cause I honestly only like 2 of them as it is with Iggy and Roy.

I get that having another character strictly as a costume can suck tho.

One thing that I'd be happy to see in more fighting games in general is a color edit mode, like CVS2 and Soul Calibur 3. But I think the inter-company nature of the roster is gonna make that too hard since guys like Sonic aren't allowed to be any color but blue, and Pac-Man with yellow.

It's more like the costume thing gives characters who otherwise would never be playable a chance. Like no way we'd be able to play as Iggy if he wasn't a costume for Bowser Jr. If they were more significant characters then Sakurai would likely opt to make them an echo fighter rather than a costume, as most of the echo fighters are basically costumes that have a character slot.

 

[Ivander]

This is kinda old news but whatever, thought it'd be fun to share. Did you know the most popular figure on Japan's biggest online figure retailer for 2020 was a Nintendo figure of all things? Can you guess what character it was?

Spoiler

https://www.reddit.com/r/Xenoblade_Chronicles/comments/lbof4w

Maybe my joke posts from 2019 and 2020 weren't as much of a joke as I thought...

I assume this means if KOS-MOS gets in, one of her costumes will be her Xenoblade 2 look.

But man, some numbers on how much was sold would be really nice to have for speculation.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Anime is a Japanese conspiracy theory created to destroy our ability to recognize sexual dimorphism in humans

It don' work on me 'cuz I know the trick!


Women have da bewbs.

...I'm sorry to say, but these two designs read as quite similar zoomed in as far as we are. There is no way I would be able to distinguish these effectively with the camera as far back as it is in gameplay.

But...They don't. They do both have a lot of grey in the pallet, but the current design uses brown as a main color, and his cape is a vibrant red. The previous one has no brown, has purple on the pallet, a glowing yellow chest, and a much more subdued red on the cape, and it's only used on the inside.

 

[Firox]

Women have da bewbs.

Hilariously enough, this has always been my rule of thumb for anime, though it is worth pointing out that even that rule fails from time to time. While anime loves voluptuous women, they like to pepper in some surf boards to keep you guessing.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Continuing on the costume discussion, what original costumes not taken from other games do you guys think would be cool to see? Like a a Neo-Geo Rob, or Pikachu in a Tanuki costume, or Isabelle wearing the Doomslayer's suit.

Tron Shulk
Lucario in martial arts gi
Ice climbers wearing a different style of winter gear, like with hats instead of hoods
random Dr. Mario versions of characters that make no sense, like Fox
Sheik with a modern/futuristic alt kiind of like the treatment Kunimitsu got in Tekken 7

On the whole Ganondorf thing, my biggest issue with a Twilight Princess alt would be the proportions. OoT Ganondorf has legs for days and TP Ganondorf has short legs. That's not even getting into the posture situation. That alt would look really strange on Ganondorf's skeleton in Ultimate.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Hilariously enough, this has always been my rule of thumb for anime, though it is worth pointing out that even that rule fails from time to time. While anime loves voluptuous women, they like to pepper in some surf boards to keep you guessing.

Poor Lucina

 

[Idon]

I've... never really cared about cosmetics, or unlocking alternate costumes, or anything like that. And I especially have never cared about customizing my character. And that's very much a minority opinion, so I always feel weird when a conversation like this comes up.

I guess my number one priority with costumes is that I can actually tell which one's which when it's zoomed out. No, Lucina shouldn't have an alt with her mask on. That's just Pac-Man's alt costumes, but even harder to tell apart. I feel the same way about Twilight Princess Ganon or Link, and a whole bunch of other concepts people like to present.

Well...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

People like the Advent Children one because it references Advent Children. Likewise, I'd bet people would like masked Lucina for referencing Awakening, Bearded Ryu for referencing SFV, or Masked Luigi for referencing Paper Mario even if they are not as visually distinct as a color palette swap.

I disagree with the claim that the Ganondorfs are too similar, but I do have to say that a small mask on a character who can face away from the camera is even worse than the "Advent Children Cloud, but without the sleeve" alt.

Bearded Ryu and Mr. L costumes are fine because bearded Ryu is also shirtless and Mr. L wears black, so you're not quizzing people on facial hair and a mask on the eyes.

For masked Lucina, you might could do with a toggle on the Character Select Screen that works with all pallet swaps so that you're not confusing anyone with a masked and unmasked Lucina of the same color. Alternatively, I think a pallet swap maker that allows you to make additional pallet swaps with your choice of costume would solve a lot of issues with costumes like these, since you would be able to ignore them if you don't like them, and making samey looking pallet swaps would be fine since its at your own discretion.

Well...

"But it is the case" is a terrible argument for "it shouldn't be the case". Sorry to call you specifically out, but this kinda thing bugs me.

 

[ARandomZoomer]

New alts would be nice just not something I would go out of the way to buy

 

[SNEKeater]

Sakurai give me Bearded Ryu and I'll main him instead of Ken, I promise.

 

[ahemtoday]

People like the Advent Children one because it references Advent Children. Likewise, I'd bet people would like masked Lucina for referencing Awakening, Bearded Ryu for referencing SFV, or Masked Luigi for referencing Paper Mario even if they are not as visually distinct as a color palette swap.

Those four are not in the same situation in terms of being distinguishable from the regular character.

• Advent Children Cloud has a coat, which significantly changes his silhouette around the lower body.
• Masked Lucina's mask is blue. Lucina already has a lot of blue near the top of her head because that's where her hair is, so it just blends in to that.
• Bearded Ryu is shirtless, changing the color of his upper body. His beard also gives him some black around his chin.
• Luigi's never worn a mask in Paper Mario. You may be thinking of the character Mr. L. If they were to add him as an alt to an entirely unrelated character for whatever reason, you could easily distinguish him by the fact that his outfit is almost entirely black.

But...They don't. They do both have a lot of grey in the pallet, but the current design uses brown as a main color, and his cape is a vibrant red. The previous one has no brown, has purple on the pallet, a glowing yellow chest, and a much more subdued red on the cape, and it's only used on the inside.

Yeah, okay, I guess I see it. For the record, though, I had trouble distinguishing Ganon's alts from each other back in Smash 4, so...

Well...

View attachment 301721View attachment 301722

Yeah, I dislike that, too.