Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SharkLord]

Almost done...

Mona

Matt from Wii Sports

Mona
PROS:

• Fairly popular character
• Recurring within WarioWare

CONS:

• Not much to push from WarioWare
• Competition from Ashley

Overall: Not really feeling it

Matt from Wii Sports
PROS:

• High meme value
• Wii Sports did exceptionally well on the Wii

CONS:

• Not much incentive to include a Wii Sports pack, seeing as it hasn't hasn't seen a new installment in years

Overall: Not really feeling it

Alright how about Krystal.

PROS:

• Fairly popular request
• Could use content from Adventures, Assault, and Command

CONS:

• Hasn't appeared in the recent reboot timeline
• Series doesn't seem to have any plans at the moment

Overall: Maybe next time

From this little experiment, I've found that the problem with first-parties and DLC is that the majority of them don't have anything being done with them at the moment. Every DLC fighter in Smash have something that includes them on current-gen platforms; Even Banjo and Kazooie have Rare Replay. Not counting NSO, which is low-effort ports that doesn't favor anyone that much, the vast majority of the first-parties I've been suggested are either not on modern systems (Re: The Switch), have fierce competition, or are from a series that's already received post-launch content.

Thankfully, the next two do check all those boxes... Though, they have a couple roadblocks. I'll go over them soon, and then I should be done.

 

[Inue Houji]

So I've seen Hatsune Miku thrown around a few times. It confuses me to be honest.
What do you folks think about it, and is it even eligible?

 

[Pillow]

So I've seen Hatsune Miku thrown around a few times. It confuses me to be honest.
What do you folks think about it, and is it even eligible?

I'd love it, but it's not happening. Smash celebrates video games. Vocaloid is closer to an instrument than a video game. I realize Miku has lots of video game appearances, but her character is rooted in music not games.

 

[cashregister9]

So I've seen Hatsune Miku thrown around a few times. It confuses me to be honest.
What do you folks think about it, and is it even eligible?

Her chances hinge on whether or not Music Produciton Software can be considered a video game. You could feasibly count it as a game because Mario paint is there.

 

[SKX31]

I’m surprised Jigglypuff was used in that promotional material.

From what I've seen, the recent push with Pokemon in China and Southeast Asia has focused a lot on Gen 1. I'm assuming that is because it's the gen with the mascot, and because the anime has a lot more "spread" than the games so to speak. So it makes sense that they'd focus on Jigglypuff, mic and all. TPC has tried to solidify Pokemon's position in those regions for a while, but it's only in the last few years that that has begun to pick up steam. (Games like ORAS or SwSh were the first officially released mainline titles in a couple of those countries for example.)

So I've seen Hatsune Miku thrown around a few times. It confuses me to be honest.
What do you folks think about it, and is it even eligible?

Calling her eligible, but can change my mind if Sakurai looks into my eyes and tells me "いいえ、彼女は資格がありません"* (Might be broken Japanese, I'm learning it at the moment, but have only basic knowledge and relying on Google Translate to fill the gaps). If only because there's a case to be made thanks to ROB.

(*"No, she's not eligible".)

 

[Fluttershy64]

PROS:

• Fairly popular request
• Could use content from Adventures, Assault, and Command

CONS:

• Hasn't appeared in the recent reboot timeline
• Series doesn't seem to have any plans at the moment

Overall: Maybe next time

Thats how I feel. If between Brawl and Smash 4, Star Fox had more games with Krystal in it, she would have been a big request for Smash 4. Another big hurdle for Krystal is there are other AT's that would get in before Krystal (Waluigi and Issac).

 

[Cosmic77]

Personally, I think Hatsune Miku would be better represented in ways outside a playable fighter. Give her a Spirit, maybe give her some music tracks. Heck, I'd be fine with some type of weird AT where she dances and sings.

She's iconic, but I feel like we'd be adding her solely because of that. Her genre isn't really the best fit for Smash, and I feel like there's better options that would fit in easier.

 

[SharkLord]

Thats how I feel. If between Brawl and Smash 4, Star Fox had more games with Krystal in it, she would have been a big request for Smash 4. Another big hurdle for Krystal is there are other AT's that would get in before Krystal (Waluigi and Issac).

I don't think there's necessarily a pecking order of Assist Trophies, but you're right in that Krystal has some obstacles that prevent her from being the frontrunner in that category. She hasn't appeared in her home series recently and said series has been laying low after Zero's divisive reception, so unless there's a new Star Fox game coming up soon Nintendo doesn't seem to have much incentive to give it more content.

 

[ahemtoday]

I think Miku's a little too far over the line to be considered a video game character, to be honest. If applications count as video games, then Clippy's eligible too, and that just seems... incorrect.

 

[SharkLord]

So I've seen Hatsune Miku thrown around a few times. It confuses me to be honest.
What do you folks think about it, and is it even eligible?

I'm willing to embrace the grey areas, but even if Miku's allowed she might be held back by all the copyrights to her music. I believe the Vocaloids are software programs that don't have much music pre-installed, so the games have to license a lot of songs and that could get kinda screwy. For games like Minecraft and Final Fantasy, it's a bummer, but when your entire existence revolves around music, not being able to get those songs is fatal.

 

[7NATOR]

I got a question

Do you think more people buy the Fighter Passes, or do you think more people buy the DLC Separately?

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I got a question

Do you think more people buy the Fighter Passes, or do you think more people buy the DLC Separately?

Fighter Passes, people really like Smash. And really like saving money.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I got a question

Do you think more people buy the Fighter Passes, or do you think more people buy the DLC Separately?

Probably more people buy the Fighter Passes. Lots of people are completionists and its much cheaper and more convenient to buy in bulk.

 

[Fluttershy64]

I don't think there's necessarily a pecking order of Assist Trophies, but you're right in that Krystal has some obstacles that prevent her from being the frontrunner in that category. She hasn't appeared in her home series recently and said series has been laying low after Zero's divisive reception, so unless there's a new Star Fox game coming up soon Nintendo doesn't seem to have much incentive to give it more content.

If we do get a new Star Fox game announced in the next couple of months and Krystal has a role in it. I could see her support rise a bit.

 

[SNEKeater]

Characters that aren't my most wanted.

Isaac, Lyn, Dixie Kong or the Chorus Kids are some of the first parties I'd love to see but if you ask me I just think they feel more like base roster additions.

Not because they're not worthy of DLC or not hype enough, just that considering the fact Nintendo is picking the characters here, while during base roster development it looked like Sakurai had more freedom, I don't know if Nintendo would really go with those characters for DLC. Just my opinion.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

So I've seen Hatsune Miku thrown around a few times. It confuses me to be honest.
What do you folks think about it, and is it even eligible?

I feels its mostly a ****post character in the smash community

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I got a question

Do you think more people buy the Fighter Passes, or do you think more people buy the DLC Separately?

More people probably buy the Fighters Pass because I believe Sakurai said when announcing more DLC that Nintendo were happy how Fighter Pass 1 was selling. That and we'd probably be buying the Fighter Pass 2 characters separately if more people were buying them that way.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I’m not sure the blowback for Crash hypothetically not being in would be so bad. Crash supporters seem pretty chill.

It wouldn’t be as bad as Waluigi. But so many people are damn near certain that he’s in. If he’s not in, the final character is going to get so much s*** flung their way.

The problem is your making an assumption that the precedent isn’t a thing simply because other precedents have been shot down.
Banjo seems to have paved the way for Minecraft, Halo has always been an Xbox or PC thing, putting Master Chief on a Nintendo platform might be too much for Microsoft.
Like it or not, in the entirety of Smash DLC, there hasn’t been any instances of Nintendo double dipping at all.
And yes, we hadn’t gotten a Spirit or a Second completely unique 3rd Party Character before Min Min and Sephiroth, but those were for the game. It relied on what the game company wanted for each series.
Double dipping is different, as it depends on how Nintendo wants to handle business. And given Smash 4, Ultimate, and now half of FP2, Double dipping companies in Smash on same batch of DLC doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

You can buy & use Master Chief on the Switch (& PS4!) version of Fortnite. Microsoft doesn’t care anymore. It’s really in Nintendo’s hands now. I don’t think Nintendo would care too much about Chief being the face of Xbox. Cloud is basically THE Japanese face of PlayStation, but he got in 7 years ago.

At this point, it just depends on if Nintendo wants to double dip instead of representing another company. It seems unlikely, but if there’s any company to double dip on its Microsoft with the huge Minecraft/Halo combo.

So does that mean that could apply to Sony as well just because Kratos is a costume in fortnite? Just asking.

Probably not now. But Kratos not being PlayStation exclusive is a huge step for Sony; especially since there’s been PS exclusive content in Fortnite before & Kratos wasn’t one of them. Perhaps one day, they’ll finally play nice with Nintendo.

In the end, the only real rule is be a video game character that's within reasonable grasp.

Thus, the only VG characters you can truly rule out are Sony owned characters and Sora because Disney.

It seems like Nintendo’s already tried, but Disney wasn’t playing ball at the time. With Sora’s sustained popularity among Smash fans, I could see Nintendo trying again one day. Especially since we’re almost at the point where Sora is one of the few big name Japanese characters not in yet. This wouldn’t be the first time they’ve been rejected on a character & tried to get them later. As seen with Konami/Snake.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

I personally bought both passes + plant as soon as I could, solely because I wanted the full experience and it'd feel off if I didn't have everyone haha.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

i only buy who Im intrested in. So I skip over the characters I dont care for like Steave Min Min and Banjo

Personally, I think Hatsune Miku would be better represented in ways outside a playable fighter. Give her a Spirit, maybe give her some music tracks. Heck, I'd be fine with some type of weird AT where she dances and sings.

She's iconic, but I feel like we'd be adding her solely because of that. Her genre isn't really the best fit for Smash, and I feel like there's better options that would fit in easier.

buying music tracks would be hard because each song is by a different producer which means A LOT of asking around and probably a lot of money

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

You can buy & use Master Chief on the Switch (& PS4!) version of Fortnite. Microsoft doesn’t care anymore. It’s really in Nintendo’s hands now. I don’t think Nintendo would care too much about Chief being the face of Xbox. Cloud is basically THE Japanese face of PlayStation, but he got in 7 years ago.

At this point, it just depends on if Nintendo wants to double dip instead of representing another company. It seems unlikely, but if there’s any company to double dip on its Microsoft with the huge Minecraft/Halo combo.

Yeah, thats my bad. It is worth noting however that Fortnite is still Multiplat. Smash would require Microsoft to agree to an exclusive that isn’t their own.

 

[Lamperouge]

I got a question

Do you think more people buy the Fighter Passes, or do you think more people buy the DLC Separately?

I can't speak for everyone but I bought both passes because I knew that I'd get all of the DLC characters anyway. Triggers my OCD if the roster ain't complete.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't know if Nintendo would really go with those characters for DLC

Don't make me bring up ARMS and Sephiroth again.

 

[7NATOR]

I have some thoughts on Both Master Chief and Kratos possibly being in Smash

-We know the Halo Accounts have tweeted about how they'd want Master Chief in Smash, and some people involved with the series have come in support of Chief in Smash. Now I don't think we've seen Phil Spencer come out about Chief in Smash, but I imagine he'd be down with it.

-With Kratos, I believe there was that Spa Smash tournament that Sony (the Gaming division) went to participate in. It's kind of a small thing, and i don't know how important the representatives that went to that tourney were, but if it's someone important enough, it's possible this could be the start of Discussions of perhaps Sony characters in Smash

-Also with Kratos, the guy who I believe did the art for God of War (the new game) did Smash art. just noting that they at least recognize Smash

-Fortnite kind of shows evidence in favor of Kratos and Chief having a possibility in Smash. I'm sure Sony and Microsoft had to know that their characters would be playable on other Consoles not their own, but they allowed it anyway, perhaps because the Benefits outweighed the downsides of the Competition having access to their Mascot characters. at the least Microsoft and Sony seem more down with their characters being on competitor consoles than Nintendo is

with that same logic, it's possible a Smash Inclusion would have that same logic, that perhaps Smash is that big of a deal, that it outweighs the downsides of being on Competing Console. there's differences between Smash and Fortnite though, like for Example how Smash is exclusive to Nintendo Platforms

-Between those rumors of some type of Halo ports coming to the Switch, Microsoft and Nintendo being buddy buddy, and with Imran's comments when it came to both Chief and Sora, I'm very sure there were at least discussions about Chief in Smash. Nintendo had to talk to Microsoft to get Banjo and Steve and there's no way there was no mention of Chief at all during those Discussions. Also unlike Sora there's been no rumors that Negotiations failed with Chief

-When it comes to Double dipping on Companies in the Same pass, I think why it logically might not make sense to do double dipping in the same pass is because you're using too much of your resources at the same time. Nintendo I want to assume wants a good pipeline of characters in the case of Future Passes/Future Smash games, especially since Smash is starting to focus more on and get more hype around 3rd party collabs rather than their own I.Ps.

If let's say they Negotiated for Hero and Sephiroth at the same time. If you put both of them in one Pass, than there won't be a Square character in the Next Pass. While yes they could go to another company, It's possible there may still be discussions with those other companies that aren't finished, plus Hero and Sephiroth are big characters on their own. Letting them shine on Each pass is better for both Nintendo and Square rather than them stealing limelight from each other on the Same pass

With all this being said. Regarding Kratos I'm unsure if Nintendo actually went to go talk to Sony as of right now. the Fortnite thing wants to make me believe that the possibility of Nintendo and Sony talking things out is more possible than we realize, but I'm unsure if it's currently in Progress, and if it is, it muse have started very recently, Too late for this pass or even Pass 3 in my Opinion. there's also the fact that perhaps Sony or Nintendo does not want to do with each other regarding Smash, and perhaps Sony has their own Plans at perhaps attempting another PSASBR

With Chief, I'm Thinking he might be used as a Selling point for the Next Smash game, or a Pass 3. I think being used for the Next Smash game is much more of priority in my Opinion since, especially if there are cuts to the roster, they are gonna need strong Selling points and Strong Newcomers to sell the next game near what Ultimate has sold. Master Chief is perfect for that, especially if those Halo ports manage to get the Nintendo audience more familiar with Halo

 

[DevaAshera]

So I've seen Hatsune Miku thrown around a few times. It confuses me to be honest.
What do you folks think about it, and is it even eligible?

Its hard to say, it depends primarily on if you count Music Creation Software as 'Video Games'..Hatsune Miku is primarily a Multi-Media Icon at this point since she's been used in Video Games, Manga, Light Novels, Concerts, Music, etc..pretty much everything but Anime thus far..Its pretty much down to whether or not Sakurai considers her as a video game character.

Personally, as much as I love her and feel she's essentially become a Video Game character at this point, she didn't begin as one.

 

[RileyXY1]

Its hard to say, it depends primarily on if you count Music Creation Software as 'Video Games'..Hatsune Miku is primarily a Multi-Media Icon at this point since she's been used in Video Games, Manga, Light Novels, Concerts, Music, etc..pretty much everything but Anime thus far..Its pretty much down to whether or not Sakurai considers her as a video game character.

Personally, as much as I love her and feel she's essentially become a Video Game character at this point, she didn't begin as one.

This is also how I feel about Geralt of Rivia. Although he's mostly associated with video games, he started out as a literature character and thus I believe that he is ineligible for Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Don't make me bring up ARMS and Sephiroth again.

Both of those characters have incentives for Nintendo to add them. This isn't necessarily the case with Isaac, Lyn, Dixie Kong, or the Chorus Kids.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Both of those characters have incentives for Nintendo to add them.

And you wouldn't have thought Nintendo had incentives to add them if they never did. This is why I believe "realism" just means "narrow-mindedness".

 

[RileyXY1]

You're such a pessimist that sometimes, I think your expecations are that Sakurai and Nintendo will cancel the Pass entirely

Joking aside, all you do is say what you don't expect, so I'm curious; what do you expect?

A lot of things, listed here:

Arle Najda: The likely pick if Sega gets another character and they decide not to give Sonic a second rep. Kiryu is out because his creator apparently doesn't want him to fight women.
Monster Hunter: With a massive new title coming this March and is Switch exclusive at launch, plus the game being massively promoted by Nintendo and the game getting its own amiibo line, a rarity for a third party. He's my personal pick for a new Capcom rep if they decide against tripling up on Street Fighter.
Ryu Hayabusa: Ryu is the most probable pick for a Koei-Tecmo rep. The series has nostalgic associations with Nintendo, plus he continues to appear even though Ninja Gaiden is a dormant IP. The only other option is a rep for Dynasty Warriors but that's a whole nother can of worms.
Sol Badguy: If Arc System Works gets a fighter it's probably him, and they already have contact with Sakurai through the earlier RCR Spirit Event. Guilty Gear is their biggest IP, and his only competition in terms of a traditional fighting rep are a Mortal Kombat rep (which is unlikely due to violent content and upopularity in Japan) and a second unique Street Fighter character.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Yeah, thats my bad. It is worth noting however that Fortnite is still Multiplat. Smash would require Microsoft to agree to an exclusive that isn’t their own.

I think the current MS leadership would see it as good marketing for Halo/Xbox. It’d also lean into the “consumer friendly” angle they’ve been trying to do.

As for the Nintendo characters, these are who I think are most likely:

• Zelda rep. Primarily a Breath of the Wild character
• Pokemon rep
• Rex or Elma
• Euden
• Bandana Waddle Dee

I don’t think the Pokemon rep would necessarily be a Sw/Sh rep. It’s still likely but there’s also the fact that one could’ve easily been in FP1. It could also be a Gen 1 Pokemon to celebrate the 25 year anniversary. Or a Pokemon from a possible Remake/Lets Go that comes out this year.

I’ve been skeptical about BanDee in the past. But I was thinking about the rumored 3D Kirby; if it’s a mainline Kirby, instead of a small spin-off, I could see Nintendo promoting it heavily. Smash could help promote it, while giving fans a longtime request.

As for Waluigi, him getting trophied caused an uproar for fans. So I could see him being the last surprise for fans before Ultimate wraps up.

My picks could change based on any unannounced Switch games too. I definitely think Nintendo DLC characters will be primarily relate to current releases, but that doesn’t mean they won’t be characters people want either.

 

[N3ON]

I think people are looking at Microsoft's stance when it comes to cooperation and collaboration with their rivals and thinking that's more the norm than the exception. Which is obviously backwards. What Microsoft is doing is great for us, but very atypical in business in general.

Sony and Nintendo act as you would expect competitors to act. With very little done in the way to benefit each other, and only cooperating over very general things that hinder them all equally, and would potentially hinder them even more if they weren't proactive about it, like lootbox regulation and piracy.

Now you have the very occasional exception like Kratos in Fortnite. But there you also have to consider that Fortnite is the biggest game out there, and available on basically every platform. Despite Smash being huge, Fortnite is still monumentally bigger, and, crucially, multiplatform. I would be cautious extrapolating too much from it. And if you think that Sony is being austere, consider how unlikely it is for Nintendo to ever allow their IP to exist cross-platform within a product like Fortnite. People speculate over Samus appearing as the other two did and all I can say is good luck.

It also speaks to the revisionism in which people looked at Banjo's inclusion as something that had little standing in its way once the popularity was there.

So when it comes to Master Chief and Kratos, I don't really even consider them in the same position. The former actually seems possible, while the latter is not impossible per-say, but I find Sony less likely to be willing to lend their character to Smash than even Disney. At least Disney probably would for the right (albeit astronomical) price.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And you wouldn't have thought Nintendo had incentives to add them if they never did. This is why I believe "realism" just means "narrow-mindedness".

It's not narrow mindedness. It wasn't certain if the ARMS's initial success would compensate for the fact that its player base dropped off extremely quickly, and that ARMS already had base game content including it's best representative as an Assist Trophy wasn't all stuff they decided to add instead of a character, and it wasn't certain that they would add a fully unique character from an already existing 3rd party franchise, let alone from Final Fantasy of all things. Just because things happened doesn't mean they could ever have been deemed likely with current information.

For Isaac, it isn't certain that they have any sort of plans for Golden Sun, or that any of those plans would cause them to add a character even though he's already an Assist Trophy. For Lyn, it isn't certain that they would add yet another Fire Emblem character, let alone one from a much older game in the series, as well as one that is already an Assist Trophy. For Dixie Kong, it isn't certain that a Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze port is enough for her to be considered, or that her appearance in a new title would get her in if a new title even came out this year. For Chorus Kids, it's not certain that the series will continue, or that they'd even want to give it a character if it does.

Could any of these happen? Sure, but it ain't likely for them to happen due to the variables that need to fall into place for them. There's nothing closed minded about that conclusion.

 

[RileyXY1]

As for a Backyard Sports character, I know that there is almost no chance if it happening, but I would be personally excited even though I am losing interest in the series.

 

[ARandomZoomer]

Slowpoke. (Damn, mixed it up with Slowbro initially, thanks chocolatejr9)

I mean, the Mon's in an ongoing KFC / Pokemon push in China together with already-in Mons (the link to Zhuge's post has an auto-play ad in it, so everyone knows):

(Yeah, I know, just want to see what the Pros / Cons would be. I can guess a couple Cons already, but still, I'm curious.)

I. I.. um just trying to imagine slowpoke moving around in smash and I could only picture it using psychic make itself float to make up for its lack of decent running speed...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I. I.. um just trying to imagine slowpoke moving around in smash and I could only picture it using psychic make itself float to make up for its lack of decent running speed...

That would be adorable.

 

[7NATOR]

Just wanted to get the thought out there

Personally I think Five Nights at Freddy's is very likely to get a Character in the Next Smash game

 

[Idon]

If we're talking about impossible characters, man what a missed opportunity it was to not include the Astral Chain guys.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Slowpoke's gimmick is having super armour all the time, but it'll only get hitstun 5 seconds after getting hit as it won't feel the pain until then.

There's nothing closed minded about that conclusion.

Ironically it's more closeminded to dismiss everything that isn't your favourite and to badmouth everyone who disagrees on how likely they are regardless of their opinions on if it'd actually happen

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If we're talking about impossible characters, man what a missed opportunity it was to not include the Astral Chain guys.

View attachment 300454​

next game for SURE... im hoping

 

[SpectreJordan]

I have some thoughts on Both Master Chief and Kratos possibly being in Smash

-We know the Halo Accounts have tweeted about how they'd want Master Chief in Smash, and some people involved with the series have come in support of Chief in Smash. Now I don't think we've seen Phil Spencer come out about Chief in Smash, but I imagine he'd be down with it.

-With Kratos, I believe there was that Spa Smash tournament that Sony (the Gaming division) went to participate in. It's kind of a small thing, and i don't know how important the representatives that went to that tourney were, but if it's someone important enough, it's possible this could be the start of Discussions of perhaps Sony characters in Smash

-Also with Kratos, the guy who I believe did the art for God of War (the new game) did Smash art. just noting that they at least recognize Smash

-Fortnite kind of shows evidence in favor of Kratos and Chief having a possibility in Smash. I'm sure Sony and Microsoft had to know that their characters would be playable on other Consoles not their own, but they allowed it anyway, perhaps because the Benefits outweighed the downsides of the Competition having access to their Mascot characters. at the least Microsoft and Sony seem more down with their characters being on competitor consoles than Nintendo is

with that same logic, it's possible a Smash Inclusion would have that same logic, that perhaps Smash is that big of a deal, that it outweighs the downsides of being on Competing Console. there's differences between Smash and Fortnite though, like for Example how Smash is exclusive to Nintendo Platforms

-Between those rumors of some type of Halo ports coming to the Switch, Microsoft and Nintendo being buddy buddy, and with Imran's comments when it came to both Chief and Sora, I'm very sure there were at least discussions about Chief in Smash. Nintendo had to talk to Microsoft to get Banjo and Steve and there's no way there was no mention of Chief at all during those Discussions. Also unlike Sora there's been no rumors that Negotiations failed with Chief

-When it comes to Double dipping on Companies in the Same pass, I think why it logically might not make sense to do double dipping in the same pass is because you're using too much of your resources at the same time. Nintendo I want to assume wants a good pipeline of characters in the case of Future Passes/Future Smash games, especially since Smash is starting to focus more on and get more hype around 3rd party collabs rather than their own I.Ps.

If let's say they Negotiated for Hero and Sephiroth at the same time. If you put both of them in one Pass, than there won't be a Square character in the Next Pass. While yes they could go to another company, It's possible there may still be discussions with those other companies that aren't finished, plus Hero and Sephiroth are big characters on their own. Letting them shine on Each pass is better for both Nintendo and Square rather than them stealing limelight from each other on the Same pass

With all this being said. Regarding Kratos I'm unsure if Nintendo actually went to go talk to Sony as of right now. the Fortnite thing wants to make me believe that the possibility of Nintendo and Sony talking things out is more possible than we realize, but I'm unsure if it's currently in Progress, and if it is, it muse have started very recently, Too late for this pass or even Pass 3 in my Opinion. there's also the fact that perhaps Sony or Nintendo does not want to do with each other regarding Smash, and perhaps Sony has their own Plans at perhaps attempting another PSASBR

With Chief, I'm Thinking he might be used as a Selling point for the Next Smash game, or a Pass 3. I think being used for the Next Smash game is much more of priority in my Opinion since, especially if there are cuts to the roster, they are gonna need strong Selling points and Strong Newcomers to sell the next game near what Ultimate has sold. Master Chief is perfect for that, especially if those Halo ports manage to get the Nintendo audience more familiar with Halo

Nintendo saving big names like Chief for the next game make a lot of sense. Though, I do think that one is a bit risky. Mainly because the MS friendship is really new & could easily change if Phil Spencer isn’t in charge of Xbox when the next Smash is out.

If we're talking about impossible characters, man what a missed opportunity it was to not include the Astral Chain guys.

View attachment 300454​

They would be so awesome. Hopefully they’ll be in the next game or maybe even a possible FP3.