Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Adrianette Bromide]

or just... everyone begs to differ, the idea that nobody plays the classics is very untrue

That wasn't literally... what I was saying I just misremembered the Sakurai Dojo post. :/

 

[SharkLord]

From what I could find on SmashWiki, it was simply stated that it was abandoned since the 23 years it came into existence; nothing that specifically says "hurr nobody plays the classics anymore". Probably exists because as of Mario's recent adventures prior to Brawl, he never really went back to 1-1. Makes sense, I guess.

I think the twist on an iconic stage is pretty cool. I'd be down for more Smash-original variation stages in the future.

 

[Otoad64]

That wasn't literally... what I was saying I just misremembered the Sakurai Dojo post. :/

oh, you made it sound like that's what he actualy said

 

[Koopaul]

Wasn't Mushroomy Kingdom always like that? Sakurai had this weird explanation that he wanted to recreate 1-1 as if it was abandoned because nobody played the classics anymore... Mario Maker remakes beg to differ hahaha.

The people: "Bowser Stage pls"
Sakurai: "What if 1-1 was a desert?"

 

[Mamboo07]

I remember when we speculated over Rayman who was frozen in ice on Battlefield.

 

[OffBrandANON]

y'know, am i unique in wishing different stages had different visual variants in a game(eg the n64 stages having both modern and n64 versions in the same stage slots)?

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I think the twist on an iconic stage is pretty cool. I'd be down for more Smash-original variation stages in the future.

That's kinda what I liked about KoF Stadium. It wasn't based on any one singular entry but rather just made a Smash original variation. It makes sense too because the King of Fighters tournament is a real thing in the Fatal Fury and KoF universe so it's kind like maybe if the tournament happened in the Smash world.

 

[Otoad64]

That's kinda what I liked about KoF Stadium. It wasn't based on any one singular entry but rather just made a Smash original variation. It makes sense too because the King of Fighters tournament is a real thing in the Fatal Fury and KoF universe so it's kind like maybe if the tournament happened in the Smash world.

or maybe it's a collaboration?

 

[StrangeKitten]

"Super Smash Bros. Perfectly Infinite Evolution: The Revengeance of The Electric Boogaloo Strikes Back: The Second Chapter"

Featuring Dante From the Devil May Series & Knuckles. NEW FUNKY MODE

You know, one of the most baffling decisions in Smash history is the fact that they brought back Pac-Land but not Pac-Maze. I think it's because there was a gimmick with Pac-Maze that involved multiple screens but that doesn't sound like a good excuse to cut a good stage that represents what Pac-Man is most known for. And plus Pac-Land just sucks a lot.

Agreed. Pac-Land looks like a 5-year old made it in MS Paint.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Edit: Whoops ignore this

 

[cothero]

Agreed. Pac-Land looks like a 5-year old made it in MS Paint.

Pac-Maze was one of the few thing i loved about smash 4 and they couldn't even put in back in Ultimate. Seriously, Sakurai??

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

And I'm the weirdo who liked Rumble Falls...

Personally I think the best thing Smash could do with stages is to make all the different parts of transforming stages selectable kind of like the variations of Steve's stage. We know the tech is there, since spirit battles already use different transformations. It would give us a lot more variety in the hazards-off side of things.

 

[Idon]

I think the twist on an iconic stage is pretty cool. I'd be down for more Smash-original variation stages in the future.

I'd be fine with them if they felt like they represented the game.
Like everyone knows Persona 5 for its UI more than its environments so instead of taking a literal place from that game, he made a 3d manifestation of the game's UI.
Similarly, KoF Arena is an Arena that reprsents the common thread of being a massive Sports Ring.

Stuff like Mushroomy Kingdom though is just... weird.
Nowadays we have plenty of substitutes but I can't imagine today stuff like "desert 1-1" that would fly without being grandfathered in lol.

 

[StrangeKitten]

y'know, am i unique in wishing different stages had different visual variants in a game(eg the n64 stages having both modern and n64 versions in the same stage slots)?

You're not! I prefer Smash 4's Battlefield and wish Ultimate's Battlefield could use it as a skin. Melee Battlefield would also be a treat.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I'd be fine with them if they felt like they represented the game. Like everyone knows Persona 5 for its UI more than its environments so instead of taking a literal place from that game, he made a 3d manifestation of the game's UI. Similarly, KoF Arena is an Arena that reprsents the common thread of being a massive Sports Ring.

Stuff like Mushroomy Kingdom though is just... weird.
Nowadays we have plenty of substitutes but I can't imagine today stuff like "desert 1-1" that would fly without being grandfathered in lol.

I hear you, but imagine Delfino Plaza covered in BotW malice.

It would be cool to allow elements of some worlds to bleed into others a bit, especially if it aesthetically fits well.

You're not! I prefer Smash 4's Battlefield and wish Ultimate's Battlefield could use it as a skin. Melee Battlefield would also be a treat.

That reminds me of Rivals of Aether's stage skins, which I like quite a lot. If the 3D nature of Smash stages didn't make the implementation super complicated I'd be all for it.

 

[Commander_Alph]

I hear you, but imagine Delfino Plaza covered in BotW malice.

It would be cool to allow elements of some worlds to bleed into others a bit, especially if it aesthetically fits well.

Pretty much the only good thing about PlayStation All-Star Battle Royale

 

[PLATINUM7]

Pretty much the only good thing about PlayStation All-Star Battle Royale

I honestly didn't like it. Beyond stages being overly gimmicky because of it, it made it seem like you never truly had a stage from a specific game. It was always something you wanted to see or play on and then something sticking its head in.

 

[cothero]

You're not! I prefer Smash 4's Battlefield and wish Ultimate's Battlefield could use it as a skin. Melee Battlefield would also be a treat.

Imagine if they return all battlefields from all previous smash games... That would be dope.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I think making a combo stage and splitting it into 2 parts would be cool. That way each series gets a stage for themselves and you get to keep the crossover magic.
Imagine the FF7 ending getting crashed by Giygas. Or Delfino Plaza being destroyed by Giygas. Or KoF Stadium being ransacked by Giygas. Or-

 

[Mushroomguy12]

You know, one of the most baffling decisions in Smash history is the fact that they brought back Pac-Land but not Pac-Maze. I think it's because there was a gimmick with Pac-Maze that involved multiple screens but that doesn't sound like a good excuse to cut a good stage that represents what Pac-Man is most known for. And plus Pac-Land just sucks a lot.

Pac-Man representation is full of baffling omissions in Smash.

 

[Pillow]

20+ years after that and we have a character whose B move does three different things depending on where (s)he is.



While it's true that hardcore fans are more likely to play a game over the long term, there's a point to be made that more casual players can - and oftentimes do - stick around for the long term. Both the big MOBAs are great examples of this: Sure, LoL is by far the larger one (with a claimed 8 million daily players in 2019), but Dota 2 is no slouch either. It and CS GO have monopolized the Top 2 spots amongst Steam's playerbase for almost 8 years (with PUBG interrupting that during 2018).

And I should note that LoL released officially in 2011, CS GO in 2012, and Dota 2 in 2013.





With a small caveat: as long as Nintendo doesn't pull an Infinite Warfare (3,9 million dislikes on 44 million views). Now, that's not brought up as an indictment on the game's quality - but to point out that Infinite Warfare was at the time of its trailer's release seen as a massive step too far (with the already-futuristic Advanced Warfare and CoD's general direction fresh in memory).

Edit: Likewise, if a ninth or tenth FE character reaches even remotely close to those numbers, chances are that Nintendo / Sakurai will course correct like Activision did after Infinite Warfare.

I definitely wouldn’t categorize Mobas as casual games, especially not DoTA. They’re popular, but they’re games with very dedicated playerbases with an extremely high entry barrier (DoTA especially). A lot of these players play only that one game and nothing else.

 

[SneakyLink]

Pac-Man representation is full of baffling omissions in Smash.

While Ms. Pac Man does appear at the end of a cycle on the Pac-Land stage, I think right now the original game is going through a legal battle between Namco and ATGames due to development being handled by the General Computer Corporation. At the moment, ATGames has the royalty rights to Ms Pac Man so the team at Namco likely cannot put her in Smash outside the aforementioned cameo.

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

Pac-Man representation is full of baffling omissions in Smash.

The licensing surrounding Ms. Pac-Man is a disaster considering her origins in a quasi-licensed game. Understandable that Smash steered clear of even mentioning her by name, disappointing though it may be.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

While Ms. Pac Man does appear at the end of a cycle on the Pac-Land stage, I think right now the original game is going through a legal battle between Namco and ATGames due to development being handled by the General Computer Corporation. At the moment, ATGames has the royalty rights to Ms Pac Man so the team at Namco likely cannot put her in Smash outside the aforementioned cameo.

So they have the rights to Ms. Pacman, But they don’t have the rights to Ms. Pacman?
I’m confused here.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

So they have the rights to Ms. Pacman, But they don’t have the rights to Ms. Pacman?
I’m confused here.

I think they have the rights to a specific instance of Ms. Pacman, but they can't use her freely outside of that context.
Kind of like how Sherlock Holmes is only partly in the public domain, or how Spider-man is owned by Disney but his movie rights are owned by Sony.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I think they have the rights to a specific instance of Ms. Pacman, but they can't use her freely outside of that context.

Ohhh, thanks.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I definitely wouldn’t categorize Mobas as casual games, especially not DoTA. They’re popular, but they’re games with very dedicated playerbases with an extremely high entry barrier (DoTA especially). A lot of these players play only that one game and nothing else.

I've always thought having to control only one unit was one of the reasons why they were able to kill RTSs.

 

[Ben Holt]

The only source that I can think of is this:

“My First Conception is My Landmark,” Sakurai’s Famitsu column vol. 456

Note: Do not repost the full translation. Please use the first two paragraphs and link to this translation. For additional information, please read this post. This translation is for fan use only, …

sourcegaming.info

but that was referring to Pac-Man's inclusion in Smash 4. When it comes to Namco-Bandai, of course Pac-Man's going to be the first choice. (picking any other Namco-Bandai character over Pac-Man seems like picking any Sega character to be in the game before Sonic - there might be one or two exceptions, but it would still be really difficult to justify that choice) It doesn't seem like he was saying that the company doesn't have many good options - just that it would be hard to consider any Namco-Bandai character over Pac-Man.

I'm still pissed that Heihachi isn't in.
Like, he's WAY more iconic than Terry.
I love Terry, but everyone knows that Street Fighter and Tekken are the big two.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm still pissed that Heihachi isn't in.
Like, he's WAY more iconic than Terry.
I love Terry, but everyone knows that Street Fighter and Tekken are the big two.

Sakurai LITERALLY said in Terry's direct that it's also important to get fun characters, not just recognizable ones.

 

[Idon]

I'm still pissed that Heihachi isn't in.
Like, he's WAY more iconic than Terry.
I love Terry, but everyone knows that Street Fighter and Tekken are the big two.

Well I'd argue Scorpion has a bit more notoriety than Heihachi, but for obvious reasons he's probably not making it lol.

 

[OffBrandANON]

Well I'd argue Scorpion has a bit more notoriety than Heihachi, but for obvious reasons he's probably not making it lol.

well, i'm not sure if he's really that impossible. the gore thing would only come up if it were really able to be incorporated in the first place.

 

[Pillow]

I've always thought having to control only one unit was one of the reasons why they were able to kill RTSs.

They're pretty different genres of games apart from the top down unit control aspect. And RTS's were never all that popular to begin with apart from SCBW in Korea. The genre kind of killed itself by not being free to play, alongside lack of support and updates from Blizzard for SCII, the biggest RTS game.

Even still I'd argue that the barrier to entry for DoTA is higher than Starcraft II (using these examples because these are the games I've actually played extensively). With Starcraft you could just memorize a timing push build and go pretty far on ladder, while DoTA there's no real way to avoid having to learn every hero, item, ward location, tree pathing, jungle timings, etc. not to mention the game undergoes drastic changes every half year or so you have to relearn even more things. Though I'd still define both Mobas and RTS's as definitively non casual types of games.

Well I'd argue Scorpion has a bit more notoriety than Heihachi, but for obvious reasons he's probably not making it lol.

Worldwide, probably, though it's arguable. Tekken 7 has cemented the series into a pretty stable position right now, both in terms of popularity and recognition. But even ignoring Mortal Kombat's notorious ultra-violence, the game is pretty much non-existent in Japan. And Smash, for better or worse, tries to celebrate gaming history with its roster, but mostly through a Japanese lens.

 

[cothero]

Let's play a little game:

Which character do you guys think it's more likely to be part of fighter pass 2?

Scorpion, Leon Kennedy or Gordon Freeman?

None is not an answer, you have to choose one and explain why you think the character you chose is more likely.

After you respond, do the same question with other three unlikely characters so other people can answer that.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm still pissed that Heihachi isn't in.
Like, he's WAY more iconic than Terry.
I love Terry, but everyone knows that Street Fighter and Tekken are the big two.

Yeah, but Heihachi doesn't have the BUSTAH WALF

 

[DarthEnderX]

If we do happen to get more echos. I find Octoling to be among the most likely.

These all have potential:
10e. Ninten [Ness]
11e. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon]
16e. Impa [Sheik]
27e. Galacta Knight [Meta Knight]
31e. Liquid Snake [Snake]
32e. Black Knight [Ike]
35e. Charizard [Pokemon Trainer]
36e. Dixie Kong [Diddy Kong]
38e. Shadow [Sonic]
46e. Bass [Megaman]
61e. Zack [Cloud]
63e. Jeanne [Bayonetta]
64e. Octolings [Inklings]

Who would take over Smash if Sakurai is not at the helm of director anymore?

I just want more of what we're getting now. So whoever the hell is Sakurai's 2nd currently.

I honestly hate the way the characters are arranged on the CSS. It's just confusing, especially so for players who aren't huge Smash nerds so they don't know the order the characters were added in (and then, that gets messed up when echoes are next to the originals).

Well, I am a huge Smash nerd, so I have that order down better the old by series one.

Same with Street Fighter. i know the series introduction order better than I know individual game CSSs. Mainly from making this.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Let's play a little game:

Which character do you guys think it's more likely to be part of fighter pass 2?

Scorpion, Leon Kennedy or Gordon Freeman?

None is not an answer, you have to choose one and explain why you think the character you chose is more likely.

After you respond, do the same question with other three unlikely characters so other people can answer that.

Gordon Freeman, Leon had a spirit event and Scorpions ratings plus pack of presence in Japan holds him back. Gordon on the other hand is just a niche pick.

How about Dark Matter, Elma, or a Gen 8 Pokémon for the next person.

 

[Pillow]

35e. Charizard [Pokemon Trainer]

Justice for rock smash!

Gordon Freeman, Leon had a spirit event and Scorpions ratings plus pack of presence in Japan holds him back. Gordon on the other hand is just a niche pick.

How about Dark Matter, Elma, or a Gen 8 Pokémon for the next person.

Gen 8 Pokemon, it's not even really close.

Master Chief, Doomslayer, Tracer

 

[Commander_Alph]

Gordon Freeman, Leon had a spirit event and Scorpions ratings plus pack of presence in Japan holds him back. Gordon on the other hand is just a niche pick.

How about Dark Matter, Elma, or a Gen 8 Pokémon for the next person.

Gen 8, probably. Elma's game is still on the Wii U which not to say she's impossible but 1st Party DLC so far complement by their game on Switch. While Dark Matter is such a small pick.


Nightmare, Chosen Undead and Agumon. How about that!

 

[SharkLord]

Gordon Freeman, Leon had a spirit event and Scorpions ratings plus pack of presence in Japan holds him back. Gordon on the other hand is just a niche pick.

How about Dark Matter, Elma, or a Gen 8 Pokémon for the next person.

Elma. Dark Matter, while a big influence on the series villains, has only appeared a handful of times in person lately, and those appearances aren't even in the main campaigns. Plus, there's competition from Bandana Dee, who's received far more requests, has risen to prominence almost at the level of King Dedede and Meta Knight, and is closely tied to the rather unrepresented modern era of the series. As for a Gen 8 Pokemon, SwSh got a Spirit Event, and it used the Pokemon most prominently featured in the marketing. If we were getting a fighter from that game, I don't think we'd be getting a Spirit Event beforehand.

Next up, Reimu, Adol, and Euden

(...Wait, what happens if I experience a moment?)

 

[DarthEnderX]

Can i go to your alternate timeline please? Mine sucks.

It's not worth it. Yeah, they have a Shadow Echo. But Trump was reelected...

What should the title of the Next Smash game be called?

The Magical Realms of Tír na nÓg: Escape from Necron 7 – Revenge of Cuchulainn: The Official Game of the Movie – Chapter 2 of the Smash Bros. SaGa.

That, or Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Deluxe.

if they were allowed to remove all the Disney stuff

You mean...his keychain bauble?