Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[chocolatejr9]

Or Evolution...

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cue vomiting in the background

Dragon Ball Evolution isn't a game though...

No, but it GOT a game.

resumes vomiting

 

[7NATOR]

Do you mean like a gacha game or something like Killer Instinct?

Something like Killer Instinct, where you get rotation of character per week and you can buy characters separately (In game currency like SF5 or real money), but the paid version of the game comes with the Full game at the time (DLC Not included)

 

[SharkLord]

Dragon Ball Evolution isn't a game though...

You were saying?

 

[Ivander]

Should the next Smash have a Free to Play option

Should there be a version of the next Smash game that people can play for free?

Do you mean like a gacha game or something like Killer Instinct?

If we get a Free to Play Smash Bros., please do not let it be Gacha. Absolutely do not let it be Gacha. I'm not okay with it with Mario Kart. I am not okay with it with Smash Bros.

Or Evolution...

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The name Evolution didn't prevent this movie from being good.

 

[cothero]

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You were saying?

Jesus Christ... Is it as bad as the movie?

 

[Otoad64]

Something like Killer Instinct, where you get rotation of character per week and you can buy characters separately (In game currency like SF5 or real money), but the paid version of the game comes with the Full game at the time (DLC Not included)

still nah

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

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You were saying?

Why do I even have faith in humanity?

Something like Killer Instinct, where you get rotation of character per week and you can buy characters separately (In game currency like SF5 or real money), but the paid version of the game comes with the Full game at the time (DLC Not included)

It's certainly a unique way to play the game, and I really like the KI system in general because it's really unique.

But... Smash doesn't really need it, honestly. It's big enough to sell insanely well regardless.

 

[Super Devon]

So there's 2 questions i got to ask?

What should the title of the Next Smash game be called?

Ultimate as a name has finality that's associated with the definition of Ultimate, so I personally think the next game title should have something to do with rebirth, but what do you think?

Should the next Smash have a Free to Play option

Should there be a version of the next Smash game that people can play for free?

Super Smash Bros. Evolution

As for the free-to-play thing, it either would be online only or the game would have to have a serious cut in content for it to be free to play, but hey Super Kirby Clash existed so who am I to say?

 

[Schnee117]

Gacha is a surefire way to completely ruin any game regardless of the quality of anything in it.

 

[cothero]

I feel that the next smash title is going to have some changes in it's essence. At this point, Sakurai must be somewhat tired of the same **** over and over again. I don't think the overall gameplay will be drastically changed, but he's certainly going to add some new and innovative mechanics to the next game.

 

[OffBrandANON]

Jesus Christ... Is it as bad as the movie?

from what i know, it's actually alot better. it was also one of the worst dragonball games ever made. this is not a contradiction.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I feel that the next smash title is going to have some changes in it's essence. At this point, Sakurai must be somewhat tired of the same **** over and over again. I don't think the overall gameplay will be drastically changed, but he's certainly going to add some new and innovative mechanics to the next game.

If they put final smash on its own button and make a legitimately good stage creator I'll be happy. Probably.

 

[7NATOR]

Why do I even have faith in humanity?


It's certainly a unique way to play the game, and I really like the KI system in general because it's really unique.

But... Smash doesn't really need it, honestly. It's big enough to sell insanely well regardless.

I mean, Smash doesn't need it but

I think if people really want a Smash game that keeps adding content for years and years, like how games like League keep adding content, I think offering a free version is a really good idea, because I know there are many people that might feel put off by the amount of DLC in addition to the base game price they have to pay

With a free version, you can further get more audiences to try out Smash, and from there Stuff like Characters, Stages, even expansion Story modes would be able to entice more people and that means more money for Nintendo.

Games like Fortnite, Genshin Impact, and and other games like that are making alot of Money, with part of the reason that their free nature allows more people to get into the game, and the more money, the more Resources that can be used for adding more characters, more stages, more modes, even more moves if Custom moves come back

This might even allow more money to be put into the DLC of the game, so if that rumor of Disney wanting both Sora and Mickey, with a bunch of Disney remixes and Stages for a $25 expansion in Smash is true, perhaps Nintendo would be more willing to do that if they are getting more money from the People that buy the base $60 game, and the people that perhaps play the game for free but Buy characters, stages, etc to play on

 

[Idon]

Gacha is a surefire way to completely ruin any game regardless of the quality of anything in it.

Just you guys wait till I unlock SSR 5 Star Marth where the entire blade is a tipper.

No more wet noodle jokes.

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

if that rumor of Disney wanting both Sora and Mickey, with a bunch of Disney remixes and Stages for a $25 expansion in Smash is true,

Smash is, quite unambiguously, for video game characters. If they were interested in dipping their toes into the not-originally-from-video-games pool, they would have done so a long time ago.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think if people really want a Smash game that keeps adding content for years and years, like how games like League keep adding content, I think offering a free version is a really good idea, because I know there are many people that might feel put off by the amount of DLC in addition to the base game price they have to pay

...How would that help? If someone felt put off from the amount of DLC on top of base game, how does making a very limited version of the game that doesn't cost anything more helpful? It still costs the same in the end.

With a free version, you can further get more audiences to try out Smash, and from there Stuff like Characters, Stages, even expansion Story modes would be able to entice more people and that means more money for Nintendo.

So rather than just one straight payment, every single thing is hidden behind its own individual paywall?

What's the point of this?!

Games like Fortnite, Genshin Impact, and and other games like that are making alot of Money, with part of the reason that their free nature allows more people to get into the game, and the more money, the more Resources that can be used for adding more characters, more stages, more modes, even more moves if Custom moves come back

Okay, it sounded dope when you compared it to KI, but adding Gacha games and other types of games with an overabundance of microtransations on top of that is making me think you're not even sure what you're talking about.

Killer Instinct is brilliant in what it did because it effectively works as a demo for the game, one that allows you to play with owners of the real game, so really, they could just throw out a demo for the next Smash and it'd essentially do the exact same thing for new audiences; let them try out the game before comitting to the purchase.

This might even allow more money to be put into the DLC of the game, so if that rumor of Disney wanting both Sora and Mickey, with a bunch of Disney remixes and Stages for a $25 expansion in Smash is true, perhaps Nintendo would be more willing to do that if they are getting more money from the People that buy the base $60 game, and the people that perhaps play the game for free but Buy characters, stages, etc to play on

They're already the richest ****ing company in Japan. Money is not an issue in any possible way unless Disney is asking for so much that it'd be better off for Nintendo to straight up let themselves be bought out.

 

[OffBrandANON]

Smash is, quite unambiguously, for video game characters. If they were interested in dipping their toes into the not-originally-from-video-games pool, they would have done so a long time ago.

maybe it's thought that a non-game-originating echo would be acceptable to them, maybe?

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

maybe it's thought that a non-game-originating echo would be acceptable to them, maybe?

I don't mean to sound dismissive, but I absolutely cannot think of what difference that could possibly make. If you want Mainstream Pop Culture vs. Video Game Characters, there are plenty of other fighting games that do that. Smash has had 20 years in which they could've done that and ultimately, they've never gone for it. Based on Sakurai's say-so and the literal decades of track record, there is no indication of this changing in any capacity.

 

[cothero]

What's the worst smash game in your opinion? I'll easily go with smash for 3DS. It was a terrible idea to develop a smash game to a handheld to begin with. I have played only a few times when i bought it and then sold it as quick as i could. The controls and graphics were awful.

I know the majority of you will choose Brawl and i perfectly understand why, but Brawl was special for me, even though it was a VERY broken game.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Nor a film either...

Nor an anime. Actually, it doesn’t exist. Its just a trip Gohan had while getting hit for not dodging.

What's the worst smash game in your opinion? I'll easily go with smash for 3DS. It was a terrible idea to develop a smash game to a handheld to begin with. I have played only a few times when i bought it and then sold it as quick as i could. The controls and graphics were awful.

I know the majority of you will choose Brawl and i perfectly understand why, but Brawl was special for me, even though it was a VERY broken game.

Smash 64, its not a bad game. I don’t personally think there are any bad Smash games. Its just that Smash 64 really doesn’t have anything other games don’t, and certainly not enough for anyone to say “awww hell yeah Smash has peaked!”

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What's the worst smash game in your opinion? I'll easily go with smash for 3DS. It was a terrible idea to develop a smash game to a handheld to begin with. I have played only a few times when i bought it and then sold it as quick as i could. The controls and graphics were awful.

I know the majority of you will choose Brawl and i perfectly understand why, but Brawl was special for me, even though it was a VERY broken game.

I kind of agree. Were it not for the split development on different systems thing, ICs probably wouldn’t have had to be cut and we coulda gotten inklings in smash 4

 

[DanganZilla5]

All of this Killer Instinct talk is reminding me how cool a rep would be in Smash. I mean the game has characters like this:

It's a sick roster.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Is it just me or that if they want to include Sora in Smash Nintendo would have to negotiate with them 2 times, first if they allowed to have the series and second is if they were allowed to remove all the Disney stuff right in front of the Disney executive themselves since I know that they would use KH as a free advertisement for their movies. ( I mean as if KH isn't always used for advertisement for their IP)

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

All of this Killer Instinct talk is reminding me how cool a rep would be in Smash. I mean the game has characters like this:

It's a sick roster.

Ah yes, Fulgore's Echo Fighter

 

[Perkilator]

What's the worst smash game in your opinion? I'll easily go with smash for 3DS. It was a terrible idea to develop a smash game to a handheld to begin with. I have played only a few times when i bought it and then sold it as quick as i could. The controls and graphics were awful.

Hey, it's only the 3DS. I liked it for its portability along with Smash Run!

Anyways, I think the weakest is Wii U, since some of its content wasn't really...good, even for being a console counterpart to the 3DS version.

The bits that can especially **** off are Smash Tour, Master Fortress, Mario Circuit, Flat Zone X, Palutena's Temple, Windy Hill, PAC-LAND, and most especially Great Cave Offensive.

 

[7NATOR]

...How would that help? If someone felt put off from the amount of DLC on top of base game, how does making a very limited version of the game that doesn't cost anything more helpful? It still costs the same in the end.


So rather than just one straight payment, every single thing is hidden behind its own individual paywall?

What's the point of this?!


Okay, it sounded dope when you compared it to KI, but adding Gacha games and other types of games with an overabundance of microtransations on top of that is making me think you're not even sure what you're talking about.

Killer Instinct is brilliant in what it did because it effectively works as a demo for the game, one that allows you to play with owners of the real game, so really, they could just throw out a demo for the next Smash and it'd essentially do the exact same thing for new audiences; let them try out the game before comitting to the purchase.


They're already the richest ****ing company in Japan. Money is not an issue in any possible way unless Disney is asking for so much that it'd be better off for Nintendo to straight up let themselves be bought out.

-Because there's not as much investment in the consumer. If there's gonna be decades worth of DLC, that's gonna start to add up for the consumer. that's hundreds and hundreds of Dollars if they want everything

with the addition of the Free option and perhaps ways to earn ingame money, then they could grind the game and be able to buy some DLC, earn some DLC, and it makes it easier, and the free option allows more people to dip into the game without having to give 60 Dollars because not everyone is into Smash. plus if you don't care for some characters or some modes in the base game, you don't have to get it, and stuff like that

-The next Smash in this instance would be built like a 60 dollar game, so it still has alot of content, like perhaps if this was a super upgraded version of Ultimate, you'd have access to over 100 Characters Over 100 stages, Lots of modes, and stuff like that for the $60, but the free version would have a Sample, and would be a Demo version like the Killer Instinct. but like how you can buy Jago for 5 Dollars if you just want Jago, you could technically do the same thing with the base roster characters if you want them forever.

-They might be the richest company in Japan, but perhaps they don't want to put so much money into DLC Budget of Ultimate. perhaps with a game that's planned to last for years and years and even Decades, they'll pull something like that.

Though to be honest, I think the idea sounded better in my head, but might not look as good as I'm typing this out. Perhaps I got to type out all the specfics like I'm making a project plan. Yes

 

[Otoad64]

What's the worst smash game in your opinion? I'll easily go with smash for 3DS. It was a terrible idea to develop a smash game to a handheld to begin with. I have played only a few times when i bought it and then sold it as quick as i could. The controls and graphics were awful.

I know the majority of you will choose Brawl and i perfectly understand why, but Brawl was special for me, even though it was a VERY broken game.

easlily 64, in my opinion every smash is greater than the last

 

[DanganZilla5]

You know, one of the most baffling decisions in Smash history is the fact that they brought back Pac-Land but not Pac-Maze. I think it's because there was a gimmick with Pac-Maze that involved multiple screens but that doesn't sound like a good excuse to cut a good stage that represents what Pac-Man is most known for. And plus Pac-Land just sucks a lot.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You know, one of the most baffling decisions in Smash history is the fact that they brought back Pac-Land but not Pac-Maze. I think it's because there was a gimmick with Pac-Maze that involved multiple screens but that doesn't sound like a good excuse to cut a good stage that represents what Pac-Man is most known for. And plus Pac-Land just sucks a lot.

I do think they could've been able to do like with the ATs and Pokeballs and just put the player's name on top of the ghosts?

 

[cothero]

Hey, it's only the 3DS. I liked it for its portability along with Smash Run!

Anyways, I think the weakest is Wii U, since some of its content wasn't really...good, even for being a console counterpart to the 3DS version.

The bits that can especially **** off are Smash Tour, Master Fortress, Mario Circuit, Flat Zone X, Palutena's Temple, Windy Hill, PAC-LAND, and most especially Great Cave Offensive.

I have to agree that the Smash Run was really nice on the 3DS.

 

[Idon]

You know, one of the most baffling decisions in Smash history is the fact that they brought back Pac-Land but not Pac-Maze. I think it's because there was a gimmick with Pac-Maze that involved multiple screens but that doesn't sound like a good excuse to cut a good stage that represents what Pac-Man is most known for. And plus Pac-Land just sucks a lot.

Yeah many iconic stages are reduced to weird variants like Mushroomy Kingdom being a desert, pixel art holdovers from the 3DS like Mute City, or ported from Wii U instead of recreating the most iconic versions like Pac-Land.

Smash Ultimate, despite being a celebration of Smash as a whole, is not exempt from the weird oddities that it's built up for itself over the years.

 

[DanganZilla5]

Yeah many iconic stages are reduced to weird variants like Mushroomy Kingdom being a desert,

That stage looks like it went through a nuclear fallout. And I don't think it's a coincidence we got Vault Boy in the same game....

 

[cothero]

Smash 64, its not a bad game. I don’t personally think there are any bad Smash games. Its just that Smash 64 really doesn’t have anything other games don’t, and certainly not enough for anyone to say “awww hell yeah Smash has peaked!”

Yeah, smash 64 was more of a pilot, Sakurai also stated that multiple times.

 

[Otoad64]

Smash Ultimate, despite being a celebration of Smash as a whole, is not exempt from the weird oddities that it's built up for itself over the years.

yeah like luigi's moveset

 

[SKX31]

Seven days

Days

Day-Z

DAISY!

"HI I'M DAISY" intensifies

Should the next Smash have a Free to Play option

Should there be a version of the next Smash game that people can play for free?

As someone who's spent quite a lot of time on the very much F2P (with all microtransactions being cosmetic, mind) Dota 2...

Nah.

The F2P model works best - from a purely economic perspective that is - when the developers themselves commit to the game over the long term right from the earliest stages, the microtransactions themselves aren't obviously screwy but enticing enough to the playerbase and the playerbase at large are encouraged to play over the medium / long term and interact with the microtransactions. From a consumer perspective, it works best when it isn't outright predatory and the rewards are seen as worth the money (which is a subjective, nebolous thing).

The last point in particular - interacting with the microtransactions - is key, because it runs completely counter to what a lot of people have come to expect with Smash Bros. That is, access to a big roster right away - with unlocks being in the game and not encrypted behind a paywall. Same goes with other content, a lot of stuff in the game without needing to spend extra.

There's also the issue of when a microtransaction is seen as "worth it". As thorny as it is, most people - casual players of a F2P game - will be content with buying one or a couple such things and carrying on. Like a LoL champion (s)he happens to like. While whales are the heaviest spenders by far, it's also often proportional to their emotional investment.

That said, in this scenario your Average Joe / Jane would run into a problem quickly: (S)he might invite a couple friends over to Smash, but now (s)he has to account for which characters said friends like to play the most. And what if they want to switch characters between matches? That's where Smash Bros.' appeal would break down if a series that prides itself on being "the dream Nintendo party fighting game" started charging additional money on being able to permanently play as the invited party guests (characters).

What's the worst smash game in your opinion? I'll easily go with smash for 3DS. It was a terrible idea to develop a smash game to a handheld to begin with. I have played only a few times when i bought it and then sold it as quick as i could. The controls and graphics were awful.

I know the majority of you will choose Brawl and i perfectly understand why, but Brawl was special for me, even though it was a VERY broken game.

Tough choice, but I'd say 4 (combining 3DS and Wii U for simplicity's sake). It's far from a bad game, but the decision to split modes was strange (leaving both versions with holes, like Wii U not having Smash Run and 3DS not having the Orders), Rage as a gameplay mechanic was jank incarnate - especially with how it "interacted" with multihits* and there was a bit too much focus on having crazy 8 player battles with the stage choices (Great Cave, Palu's Temple) leaving the larger stages feeling empty if there were 2 / 3 players only.

Again, I'm not saying it's a bad pair of games: 4 experimented with modes like Smash Run, they did heavily reduce the most hated gameplay aspects from Melee and Brawl's era (incl. the removal of chaingrabs) and stuff like the Miis and Custom Moves was a legit selling point in theory. Shame that those were unbalanced as all living hell, because there was real potential with those. And yeah, Miis were lowkey bonkers in 4, when one could change their size and weight... with the small Mii Brawler being unreasonably fast.

*(Although the worst gameplay mechanics IMHO are tripping and hitstun cancelling in Brawl)

Yeah many iconic stages are reduced to weird variants like Mushroomy Kingdom being a desert, pixel art holdovers from the 3DS like Mute City, or ported from Wii U instead of recreating the most iconic versions like Pac-Land.

Smash Ultimate, despite being a celebration of Smash as a whole, is not exempt from the weird oddities that it's built up for itself over the years.

That stage looks like it went through a nuclear fallout. And I don't think it's a coincidence we got Vault Boy in the same game....

Quoting the Brawl Dojo regarding Mushroomy Kingdom:

The kingdom you once knew has turned to ruins over the long years, and it is now your battlefield.

But yeah, Sakurai might've been playing, nah, FallOut 3 wasn't out at the time Brawl was developed (they both released in 2008). Perhaps Fallout 1 / 2 though, since those two are cult classics and IIRC critical darlings.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I know I’m super insanely late on this, but I actually don’t mind the CSS being in fighter numerical order. In fact I enjoy it so much, I’ve set up my Amiibo in the same order (though the echoes are also in line with when they debuted, not who they’re based off of). However, I can see why it would be “easier” to select characters if they were arranged by series, and for that reason, I wouldn’t mind having a toggle for it somewhere.

Edit: I also advocate that when the DLC is done, that the top row include the entire original 12 + Dark Samus. I liked it when it was all of them at the top near the beginning of Ultimate’s life cycle...

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Yeah many iconic stages are reduced to weird variants like Mushroomy Kingdom being a desert, pixel art holdovers from the 3DS like Mute City, or ported from Wii U instead of recreating the most iconic versions like Pac-Land.

Smash Ultimate, despite being a celebration of Smash as a whole, is not exempt from the weird oddities that it's built up for itself over the years.

Wasn't Mushroomy Kingdom always like that? Sakurai had this weird explanation that he wanted to recreate 1-1 as if it was abandoned because nobody played the classics anymore... Mario Maker remakes beg to differ hahaha.

 

[Otoad64]

Wasn't Mushroomy Kingdom always like that? Sakurai had this weird explanation that he wanted to recreate 1-1 as if it was abandoned because nobody played the classics anymore... Mario Maker remakes beg to differ hahaha.

or just... everyone begs to differ, the idea that nobody plays the classics is very untrue

 

[Perkilator]

Wasn't Mushroomy Kingdom always like that? Sakurai had this weird explanation that he wanted to recreate 1-1 as if it was abandoned because nobody played the classics anymore...

From what I could find on SmashWiki, it was simply stated that it was abandoned since the 23 years it came into existence; nothing that specifically says "hurr nobody plays the classics anymore". Probably exists because as of Mario's recent adventures prior to Brawl, he never really went back to 1-1. Makes sense, I guess.

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

Wasn't Mushroomy Kingdom always like that? Sakurai had this weird explanation that he wanted to recreate 1-1 as if it was abandoned because nobody played the classics anymore... Mario Maker remakes beg to differ hahaha.

Given that the 64 and Melee Mushroom Kingdom stages are "Ancient Kingdom" in Japanese, and Mushroomy Kingdom is "Ancient-ish Kingdom", it was probably a joke on reinterpreting something as ancient ruins instead of retro pixel style.