Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Mr. Robotto]

No, you'll get Mr. Shakedown in Smash instead. When making that deal Sakurai was cited saying "Kazuma Kiryu more like Kazuma Kir-who lmao gotteem"

There will be no stage, but only one track will accompany him however. Once he has his sight on you, Get Them will play for the remainder of the match. Have fun!

 

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

Shut Up Robotto and Gwen! but Login out!
I'm Guest!

 

[Cap'n Jack]

: If you browse Mr. Sakurai's Twitter today, you'll find something quite neat! Seeing such a lovely wench being featured is a most delectable treat!

pic.twitter.com/ZG4PhxXis3

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) January 19, 2021

So cool to see this.

Honestly Grunty or a Pig Ganon heavyweight sorcerer type is my most wanted unfulfilled archetype in Smash. I am a sucker for heavyweights, but one with a heavy projectile and unorthodox moveset that typically comes with the magic user archetype I think would serve the game’s roster very well.

Which begs the question:

Who else besides Grunty or Pig Ganon would fit this archetype?

 

[Commander_Alph]

Honestly same.

I started this speculation cycle liking Yuri and loving Lloyd but all the Lloyd bashing is starting to make me dislike Yuri.

I try not to make fans affect my love of a character but...

Gosh darn it, it hurts having one of your favorite games of all time constantly bashed purely to build up a game I find overrated.

It's actually turned me off of Velvet too and I was looking forward to playing that one.

It just feels like people can't talk about Tales anymore without bashing Lloyd and that really sucks the wind out of my sails.

Really? I thought it was the opposite, I thought that with how Lloyd and his game is more prominent everyone will quickly bash the other protagonist from the series due to their unfamiliarity, applying a double standard to Lloyd to something like "oh yeah, if Yuri is that popular then why he isn't a mii costume already instead of Lloyd?" Or "Lloyd appear in Smash first therefore he will always be the first no matter the circumstances. Period."

 

[Froggy]

So cool to see this.

Honestly Grunty or a Pig Ganon heavyweight sorcerer type is my most wanted unfulfilled archetype in Smash. I am a sucker for heavyweights, but one with a heavy projectile and unorthodox moveset that typically comes with the magic user archetype I think would serve the game’s roster very well.

Which begs the question:

Who else besides Grunty or Pig Ganon would fit this archetype?

Heavy Zoners are definitely already in smash. If its specifically a magic based heavyweight zoner archetype you're looking for then you have a point, but that seems so needlessly niche. Pig Ganon is likely to focus as much on weapons and melee attacks as magic, and is unlikely to be a zoner I think thats how he should be.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I hope we get Crash Bandicoot's sister (Coco) as an Echo/Alt or whatever the hell it would fall under seeing how they have identical movesets, But I would imagine the base/skeletal structure used for Crash Bandicoot would probably make things a kind of complicated.

It would be cool if the Smash team can make it happen.

Getting Crash Bandicoot would be the delicious "Whoa" of a cake and Coco would be the Wumpa fruit on top.

Same here, even if Coco probably makes Crash more Complicated due to Activision probably insisting she gets Prioritized as an Echo.

...That was in response to Shovel Knight, not Crash.

Shovel Knight I really hope happens. The amiibo definitely helps him, but Japan doesn't know his existence sooooooo........................

 

[Mr. Robotto]

Shut Up Robotto and Gwen! but Login out!
I'm Guest!

Did we leak too much insider information? Damn... Mr. Shakedown confirmed I guess.

 

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

Voice Actor With NDA?

 

[SharkLord]

Really? I thought it was the opposite, I thought that with how Lloyd and his game is more prominent everyone will quickly bash the other protagonist from the series due to their unfamiliarity, applying a double standard to Lloyd to something like "oh yeah, if Yuri is that popular then why he isn't a mii costume already instead of Lloyd?" Or "Lloyd appear in Smash first therefore he will always be the first no matter the circumstances. Period."

At the very least, I've seen a couple people brush Lloyd aside because "He has a Mii Costume and he has to come back" and then going for Yuri in their predictions, like the possibility of the Mii alone disqualifies Lloyd. To me, it actually feels like people are pushing Yuri harder than Lloyd, though the Mii might have something to do with that.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

Honestly, I think that if Crash makes the cut, Japanese Crash is much more likely than Coco as an alt costume, for multiple reasons.
Coco would no doubt be prominently featured in the stage and on the spirit board, but if you look at all of the third party alt costumes this far, they've amounted to different clothes (and different faces) on the same basic model.
I see Coco as an echo or not playable at all. She's shaped too differently than Crash to be a simple alt, and is at least as qualified as Ken and Richter to be a separate character.
So unless Crash's big gimmick is being the only DLC character to come with an echo, I don't expect Coco to happen this time around. I would love to be wrong, though.

All that being said, I'm not extremely confident that even Crash will make the cut, if only because he's a very expected choice, and most of the DLC characters have been pretty unexpected.

 

[MooMew64]

I see more Kiryu talk.

Yakuza is such a dang great series. Like, for real: It has amazing characters, fantastic gameplay, and the best gosh dang soundtrack EVER. There's so much to gush about it.

That said, I dunno if I really see Kiryu happening, mainly due to competition with Arle and the overall likelihood of another Sega rep not being too likely in my eyes, but that ain't gonna stop me from hoping!

...IF it does happen...Can Majima be the rep we get?

 

[SharkLord]

I see more Kiryu talk.

Yakuza is such a dang great series. Like, for real: It has amazing characters, fantastic gameplay, and the best gosh dang soundtrack EVER. There's so much to gush about it.

That said, I dunno if I really see Kiryu happening, mainly due to competition with Arle and the overall likelihood of another Sega rep not being too likely in my eyes, but that ain't gonna stop me from hoping!

...IF it does happen...Can Majima be the rep we get?

I mainly know Yakuza for the main character respecting women too much to be in Smash

Also this

Lots and lots of punching, apparently

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I mainly know Yakuza for the main character respecting women too much to be in Smash

Also this
View attachment 299980
Lots and lots of punching, apparently

Does Mario really need to be hurt by someone again? Let's give the red plumber a little bit of a rest, ey?

 

[MooMew64]

I mainly know Yakuza for the main character respecting women too much to be in Smash

Also this
View attachment 299980
Lots and lots of punching, apparently

When simplified down to the basics, Yakuza plots usually revolve around someone making Kiryu very angry, so he goes and punches a lot of people in the face until he feels better. Usually when the person who made him upset in the first place gets punched.

Sometimes he bashes them in with a bike to mix things up.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Voice Actor With NDA?

I mean

coincidentally

Caitlin Glass, Elma’s VO, has been under NDA for two and a half years now and she announced she booked said NDA role shortly after Sakurai announced the DLC lineup was complete in 2018

there’s also Scott Menville, Lloyd’s old VO, having an NDA but I think that was revealed to be some Call of Duty thing

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I mean

coincidentally

Caitlin Glass, Elma’s VO, has been under NDA for two and a half years now and she announced she booked said NDA role shortly after Sakurai announced the DLC lineup was complete in 2018

there’s also Scott Menville, Lloyd’s old VO, having an NDA but I think that was revealed to be some Call of Duty thing

Wouldn't that be a little too early to cast Elma for DLC if only pass 1 was complete? The idea of more DLC probably wasn't on the forefront of anyone's minds until pass 1 sales came in like hotcakes so unless they knew Elma was going to appear sometime in the future or she was planned to be in pass 1.

Also was Scott's thing revealed to just be for Call of Duty? Rippy dippy.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Man you have no idea how much I really want Elma.

Elma supporters try to continue staying strong!

 

[Faso115]

Wouldn't that be a little too early to cast Elma for DLC if only pass 1 was complete? The idea of more DLC probably wasn't on the forefront of anyone's minds until pass 1 sales came in like hotcakes so unless they knew Elma was going to appear sometime in the future or she was planned to be in pass 1.

Also was Scott's thing revealed to just be for Call of Duty? Rippy dippy.

Not outright confirmed but the dates line up to the last COD zombies map for Black Ops 4 that was released a few weeks after that twitter post. He voices one of the characters there

 

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

Call of Duty?

That Crash bandicoot or Spyro or COD?

 

[BritishGuy54]

Throwing my two pennies into the Tales discussion. Honestly, I can see both Lloyd and Yuri getting Mii Costumed, or getting a Spirit Event for Tales in general. Either way, it’ll be a less severe version of what happened to the Geno fans.

I maintain my picks for the DLC are Rex, Crash/Eggman (one or the other, depends on profile theory), and Dante.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Heavy Zoners are definitely already in smash. If its specifically a magic based heavyweight zoner archetype you're looking for then you have a point, but that seems so needlessly niche. Pig Ganon is likely to focus as much on weapons and melee attacks as magic, and is unlikely to be a zoner I think thats how he should be.

I am referring to Magic users. They tend to act a little less kosher than typical zoners

 

[Bobthealligator]

imo rex can still happen because the only reason he was mii'd was because he was planned but there wasn't enough time, they could still do him for fighter's pass 2

also the whole paying for the costume and the character thing doesn't apply to him because he's a free bonus

He wasn't planned. He can't have been planned because Xenoblade 2 had a roughly 2 year development period so Rex probably exist (And if he did, in a very different form) when Ultimate's roster was finalised. Sakurai said he would have liked to include him but he was too new and got cut due to the game being to recent for it to be possible, not because they ran out of time.

 

[Perkilator]

We're rating Sora and Professor Layton in RTC today.

 

[Froggy]

Honestly, I think that if Crash makes the cut, Japanese Crash is much more likely than Coco as an alt costume, for multiple reasons.
Coco would no doubt be prominently featured in the stage and on the spirit board, but if you look at all of the third party alt costumes this far, they've amounted to different clothes (and different faces) on the same basic model.
I see Coco as an echo or not playable at all. She's shaped too differently than Crash to be a simple alt, and is at least as qualified as Ken and Richter to be a separate character.
So unless Crash's big gimmick is being the only DLC character to come with an echo, I don't expect Coco to happen this time around. I would love to be wrong, though.

All that being said, I'm not extremely confident that even Crash will make the cut, if only because he's a very expected choice, and most of the DLC characters have been pretty unexpected.

I certainly do get your point, but female Byleth's model was always shorter than male Byleth in three houses but yet she was alternate costume for Byleth. It wouldn't be the first time they worked around model differences to make an alternate costume work.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Japanese Crash I can see being an alt for sure.

Same with Fake Crash.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

You know, while it would probably be a let down a lot of people, if Smash did end up with a single bonus post second Fighter's Pass character, I don't think I would mind if it was a Mii Spellcaster with a bunch of costumes (some paid, some not) coming with it. No it wouldn't be the major first or third party fighter for a lot of people to go gaga over, but as far as a finale to Ultimate, giving fans one last opportunity to make their favorite characters with a moveset that would fit them?

You could do a lot worse.

 

[Otoad64]

He wasn't planned. He can't have been planned because Xenoblade 2 had a roughly 2 year development period so Rex probably exist (And if he did, in a very different form) when Ultimate's roster was finalised. Sakurai said he would have liked to include him but he was too new and got cut due to the game being to recent for it to be possible, not because they ran out of time.

yeah that's pretty much what I meant

 

[Schnee117]

I see more Kiryu talk.

Yakuza is such a dang great series. Like, for real: It has amazing characters, fantastic gameplay, and the best gosh dang soundtrack EVER. There's so much to gush about it.

That said, I dunno if I really see Kiryu happening, mainly due to competition with Arle and the overall likelihood of another Sega rep not being too likely in my eyes, but that ain't gonna stop me from hoping!

...IF it does happen...Can Majima be the rep we get?

Majima's final smash should be causing an economic collapse whilst he does the hustle

 

[JOJONumber691]

JOJONumber691
You're going to be continually let down if you keep viewing "ease of collaboration" as dealbreaker. At the most extremes, the likes of Disney and Sony, sure. But what about the previous six third-parties makes you think Nintendo opts for the simple acquisition? Two were from new companies, two were from Square, two were western (and from a competitor), all except Terry seemed to involve multiple parties when you consider the music/artwork.

At the point you have Sega, Capcom and Namco on board, you're set for third-parties for several titles. Those companies have a wealth to themselves. But Nintendo doesn't rest on its laurels and mine the same developers over and over as much as they reach out to new ones constantly. And that doesn't even touch on the big companies that have been involved only to the extent of supporting content. Nintendo is not afraid to play the field.

There's no good reason to consider a company like Activision off the table, even if no further western characters arrive this time.

Also, Activision-Blizzard doesn't own Riot. Tencent owns Riot.

Huh neat. Also:
Konami: Barely a Game Company with big IP. They Barely got back Metal Gear, and Castlevania is their single most active IP
SEGA: Great Relation and major history, also Bayonetta may as well be a Nintendo Character lol.
Capcom: Very Friendly. Over 30+ Songs for both Mega Man and Street Fighter, though overly nostalgic. Also an Assist Trophy, Boss, and Cut Stage with Monster Hunter lol.
NAMCO: Literally develops the Game, on top of not having too many good options Sakurai's Word not Mine.
Square: Aren't stingy themselves, but Copyright's a Mess. Cloud got barely anything in Smash 4 and Ultimate, Hero only got 8 Bad MIDI's; Two Per Hero, and no Remixes because Koichi Sugiyama owns the Music and he's a Japanese Supremacist. Toriyama owns the designs, so we got no Human Characters modeled besides the Heroes themselves, alongside the only Human Spirit in the Game being a Group Spirit of Dragon Quest 11's Party. Alongside a MAJOR Focus on DQ11 as a whole. Sephiroth fixed Cloud's Issues... barely.
Microsoft: Minecraft bridged that gap, and also got both Banjo and Steve in Smash despite the Language Barrier.
SNK: They're very generous 50 Songs is RIDICULOUS lol.
See what I mean with Company Relations and Composers?

 

[SharkLord]

Huh neat. Also:
Konami: Barely a Game Company with big IP. They Barely got back Metal Gear, and Castlevania is their single most active IP
SEGA: Great Relation and major history, also Bayonetta may as well be a Nintendo Character lol.
Capcom: Very Friendly. Over 30+ Songs for both Mega Man and Street Fighter, though overly nostalgic. Also and Assist Trophy, Boss, and Cut Stage with Monster Hunter lol.
NAMCO: Literally develops the Game, on top of not having too many good options Sakurai's Word not Mine.
Square: Aren't stingy themselves, but Copyright's a Mess. Cloud got barely anything in Smash 4 and Ultimate, Hero only got 8 Bad MIDI's; Two Per Hero, and no Remixes because Koichi Sugiyama owns the Music and he's a Japanese Supremacist. Toriyama owns the designs, so we got no Human Characters modeled besides the Heroes themselves, alongside the only Human Spirit in the Game being a Group Spirit of Dragon Quest 11's Party. Alongside a MAJOR Focus on DQ11 as a whole. Sephiroth fixed Cloud's Issues... barely.
Microsoft: Minecraft bridged that gap, and also got both Banjo and Steve in Smash despite the Language Barrier.
SNK: They're very generous 50 Songs is RIDICULOUS lol.
See what I mean with Company Relations and Composers?

on top of not having too many good options Sakurai's Word not Mine.

Where's the source on this? I haven't heard this brought up until now.

 

[Nightguything]

I mean

coincidentally

Caitlin Glass, Elma’s VO, has been under NDA for two and a half years now and she announced she booked said NDA role shortly after Sakurai announced the DLC lineup was complete in 2018

there’s also Scott Menville, Lloyd’s old VO, having an NDA but I think that was revealed to be some Call of Duty thing

It hasn’t been outright confirmed that Scott’s NDA situation was in reference to call of duty. No mention of it appears actually, but it is possible.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Where's the source on this? I haven't heard this brought up until now.

I think it was an interview during Smash 4? Maybe the one where he mentioned Heihachi being too complex to add?

 

[SpectreJordan]

Crash, to say the least, has stiff competition from several angles. His own company’s Greed. Moveset Wise he and Rayman would be similar. Relations Wise Activision is not nearly as close to Nintendo as either Ubisoft and ESPECIALLY Koei Tecmo. His Fan Requests started to become a thing AFTER N-Sane Trilogy came to Switch in 2018, so around Three Years or so ago, not to mention Coco would also be something Activision would probably require if Crash got in. Also depending on CERO’s Mood Call of Duty is there. Also, Activision Blizzard owns Riot as well, meaning League is also an Option, which would be prioritized unless DFO got a Character. Yeah I can’t see Crash happening, at least not in this Pass. If we get a Third I could see it, but for now I simply can’t.

I think a lot of those are valid points. But I don’t think fan requests starting in 2018 matters. It’s Crash MFing Bandicoot, one of the most legendary video game characters ever. He doesn’t need massive fan requests to justify his inclusion especially since Ryu, Cloud & Sephiroth (all on or around Crash’s level) didn’t.

There’s also the fact that they decided FP2 late last year, so there’s a good chance that they saw the influx of support that Crash has gotten.

SoulCalibur would be easier to implement than Tekken because it doesn't have limb-mapping.

Frankly I think Tekken also wouldn't be hard to implement, and Heihachi has been implemented in several games on a 2D plane, with more "standard" controls, but people who disagree seem to do so on the basis of Sakurai not willing to change Tekken's control scheme.

But if Heihachi was actually one of those highly highly top-tier requested characters, or he was one of those characters where the executive comes back to look over their glasses and say "are you sure you can't get this character working?" which when you translate the Japanese social cues means "c'mon Sakurai, put this guy in", I bet he'd be in by now.

It’s still really shocking that the latter didn’t happen. Tekken is such a big & important series plus it would’ve been really easy to negotiate. I think most people would’ve been happy with Heihachi & he would’ve sold really well. It really does make me think that Sakurai was a stickler for Heihachi having Tekken’s limb mechanic & just couldn’t figure out how to make it work.

 

[Oracle Link]

Ark from Terranigma?

Yep its Ark

Funny how popular he is in Germany

I mean even if Terranigma didnt release in the Us its still Illusion of Gaia with Far Better Gameplay

 

[Deleted member]

If we got Tekken, why wouldn't it be Jin? Even though Heihachi is more recognizable, he's the antagonist (mostly) isn't he?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Majima's final smash should be causing an economic collapse whilst he does the hustle

SO THIS IS WHY YOU TOLD ME TO GO TO THE TEMPLE AND DO THAT SIDEQUEST JUST NOW YOU ****



Also I highly doubt Crash would get a second model for a more cutesy appearance, last I checked, 4 and the mobile games have managed to find a good mix between cute and cool for his designs, seems much easier to just use that or take a Sakurai spin on the mix

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If we got Tekken, why wouldn't it be Jin? Even though Heihachi is more recognizable, he's the antagonist (mostly) isn't he?

Or Yoshimitsu.

Who would not just cover Tekken but Soulcalibur as well.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yep its Ark

Funny how popular he is in Germany

I mean even if Terranigma didnt release in the Us its still Illusion of Gaia with Far Better Gameplay

I'd like to thank the kind folks at Did You Know Gaming for telling me this game exists:

Seriously, if you like region-exclusive games, give these Region Locked videos a watch. Really informative.

 

[Firox]

SNK: They're very generous 50 Songs is RIDICULOUS lol.

I still love how generous SNK was compared to most other 3rd parties. They practically threw themselves at Sakurai.

Sakurai: "Hey guys, Masahiro Sakurai here. So, I'm not sure if you knew this, but I'm a pretty big fan of your work. I was wondering if we could—"

SNK execs: "TAKE IT! TAKE IT ALL! WE'RE IN SMASH BROS, BABY! WHOOOOOOOOT!"

 

[Megadoomer]

Where's the source on this? I haven't heard this brought up until now.

The only source that I can think of is this:

“My First Conception is My Landmark,” Sakurai’s Famitsu column vol. 456

Note: Do not repost the full translation. Please use the first two paragraphs and link to this translation. For additional information, please read this post. This translation is for fan use only, …

sourcegaming.info

but that was referring to Pac-Man's inclusion in Smash 4. When it comes to Namco-Bandai, of course Pac-Man's going to be the first choice. (picking any other Namco-Bandai character over Pac-Man seems like picking any Sega character to be in the game before Sonic - there might be one or two exceptions, but it would still be really difficult to justify that choice) It doesn't seem like he was saying that the company doesn't have many good options - just that it would be hard to consider any Namco-Bandai character over Pac-Man.