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    Following Sora's announcement as the final fighter coming to Smash Bros. Ultimate, we've got an update on the future of the Newcomer Speculation forum. Please check it out!

    The Future of Ultimate Newcomer Speculation

Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

Ivander

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I thought we agreed the other person whose name begins with an S is to be dubbed He Who Must Not Be Named

Goemon had a Mii. I wonder how he did since he had a game on N64
He had 2 games on NES(3-4 if counting Wai Wai World 1-2), 4 on SNES, 3 or 4 on PlayStation, 3 on N64, 1 on PS2 and 1 on NDS for what I remember. That said, only 3 came out to the West which were the 1st game on SNES and the 2 popular ones on N64.

I can't imagine him doing good since I don't think he's gotten a game since the NDS game, but probably decently if the votes for him were what got him a Mii Costume.
 
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Opossum

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Man, I REALLY didn't want this to continue like this originally, but now that it has I'm seeing exactly what I wanted, even if not from whom I wanted to see it from, I guess I'm okay with a bit of derailing.

I'm not sure where this updated list of attacking people who thought Geno wasn't in was at. I apparently didn't get that memo. To keep the discussion about the Geno Thread as minimum as possible here since it just brings up bad old blood for people, if you can DM me this supposed list and who was making it just so we can have a small chat about it that would be nice, because I have to say that as of now this seems like a work of fiction. I'm not calling anyone a liar, but while it's not hard for me to believe that a certain Geno Fan would do this, it's hard for me to believe as a whole we would have planned to go and harass numerous people. Pretty sure we would have just flipped the bird to the haters on GameFAQs and cried our eyes out at the same time, possibly in all universes simultaneously.

I also don't think this kind of thing is unique to just the Geno Thread, and I doubt this is the first time this has ever happened in Smash speculation. I think this is just the first time it got that bad on this site. But even if I'm wrong about that, now we know what both sides need to do to prevent this from happening again.

The last two things I will say that I think people aren't quite set quite right on is the attacking of people who meant no harm and defending Geno's position. I admit that we did that for the both, I saw it happen. For the former, it's called conditioning: For a positive example, if you come home from work and every Tuesday your SO gives you a peck on the cheek and a wink and that means it's time to Hulu and WooHoo, you may get thrown off when one Tuesday you pursue this first and your SO doesn't want to. A more negative one would be going out for a walk at night and someone comes up to you with specific body language and mugs you, then having thing happen to you once again next week and the week after, all using the same manner of walking and body language before attacking you. The next night you go out (assuming you even would at this point), if another person walked up with similar body language, would you not put up your dukes or otherwise be ready to defend yourselves without even knowing of their motives?

Replace body language with post structure and statements made, and you have what the Geno Thread experienced enough to lash out at people who had genuine questions because many trolls framed themselves the same way. I remember it very clearly that they would either outright be jerks with post structure with backhanded questions or act as if they were asking genuine questions and then proceeded to just blow that cover and do what they came there for. This happened weekly or even daily, so when some people chased away genuine people it starts to make more sense.

The latter is that, up until Sephiroth and not completely until his Mii Costume, there was nothing perceivably bad in Geno's way. Everyone with a brain knew a Spirit PNG wouldn't stop DLC and it got proven right soon enough, and his costume not coming back with Hero was the longest jebait in history that others also experienced before us. So, we had from November 2018 until Dec 2020 in which Ultimate itself gave us nothing but confidence. By all means, we took things that were good for any character and spun it for Geno, and we did bits of revisionist hype here and there (which I also did since my engagement during Brawl is very fuzzy in my memory, and I appreciate those who were honest with me and corrected me about the character hype trains then), and we came up with some wacky theories (although some of them like 7 Theory was a meme more than it was anything serious) but all in all it was, at the core, what Ultimate was telling us and a mix of both real and fake insider information that put us were it did.

So, when the game itself is looking good for Geno, leakers/fake leakers keep coming into your thread to say good things about Geno, Geno was being setup very well for the next Square rep, Sora and Sephiroth seemed like they weren't happening...and that period of time lasts for over two years? I think you can understand the confidence here. Also add in that we were riding the Sakurai Interview high into the first reveal in March 2018, so it was just a mix of things that brought us tall only to fall HARD and there was essentially no real warning sign until we got there, not from Sakurai, real leaks or Ultimate itself.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a FINAL final note on this topic from me (and I'll do my damnedest to stick to that this time), I see some apologies for their actions regardless of whether they really seem warranted. I won't apologize for mine personally, as I don't see anything that deems such a thing. I'll admit I got things wrong for sure and that my attitude to people here wasn't always the nicest, but I'm not the only one who got things wrong and the attitude was very much mutual during those times, but I think we've mostly moved past that and I'm down with not beating each other over the head with theories or trying to character assassinate or strawman people when the only thing we know about each other is a couple hundred posts and a profile picture. I thank those who provided me information to correct me even when it didn't break through at first and sticking with it to make sure it did, extra points to those who weren't rude in the process.

I also won't apologize for the things the Geno Thread did or may have done that were stupid, ridiculous and/or mean, and that's because I can't take the blame and apologize for a group of like a thousand individuals or so. I would regularly tell people to stop hating on characters like Sora or Hero and anyone that they may have been actually hating on because we shouldn't act like the people who come into our thread and mistreat us. I told people multiple times to consider Sora as competition and I was also openly critical of The Janitor in terms of disagreement on things. I was always one of the first to recover from disappointment and encouraged others to do the same, and I myself had to take breaks from the thread because my own fellow Geno Fans would try to put words in my mouth from time to time. If anything, that should have been the hint that something was amiss, but I just chalked it up to people being stupid and not understanding my wordy posts rather than it being an issue with the culture in that thread. For as much as I hyped things up for Geno, I consider myself reasonable and I strive to get close in terms of speculation, regardless of my favorites. Despite my wants, after his costume I said that it's still possible he could make it, but I also thought it was much more likely to be someone else. I was really hoping I could steer the Geno Thread back into a state of reasonable optimism and hope after that reveal, and I think it could have happened over time, but staff decided it was best to just nuke it instead...too which I both understand but also disagree.

At the end of the day, I'm a SMRPG Fan. It was my first RPG, even before Pokemon, and it's one of my favorite games if not my favorite. Without the randomizer, I can fire up the game at any time and just play it and enjoy myself despite having played through it countless times. I'm fighting in hopes for SMRPG to make it to SNES Online. I'm fighting in hopes of Geno and Mallow or any other unique character from SMRPG to return in things like Mario Kart or Mario Party. I'm fighting for a remaster with new content like Square has been doing or for an outright remake. I'm fighting for a sequel that takes place in the same SMRPG universe. I'm fighting for more official SMRPG merchandise. And of course, I'm fighting for Geno in Smash. I will keep doing this until I get results so that a great game that was a product of it's time gets a second chance to shine and perhaps become something even greater. I will get hype for any Smash news as I always do, I'll be excited for each character reveal as I always am. The only thing that has changed is that my harsh criticism of being very stern on leaks and only accepting official Nintendo info or credible info from leakers up until the first time they are wrong: after that they immediately have to prove themselves again.

I won't apologize for getting hype and I won't apologize for being a SMRPG fan. From here on out, my goals in the realms of Smash are to try and band Geno Support together again while avoiding what happened last time and possibly starting up a Skullgirls Support Thread since there really isn't one and I think that's criminal. Other than that, trying to get as close to the truth of what happens to Smash in the future, as always. Ultimate was a wild ride and, while I think too many mistakes were made for it to TRULY be Ultimate, I do think it fits it's name of Special to an absolute T. I'm happy with the results overall, and I hope of most you all are too.

Here's to the future of less-screwed-up Smash Speculation!

So as much as I'd rather not continue this, since at this point it was so long ago anyway, I'm going to point in the direction of the post just to make it clear that it's not a fabrication.

Post 84,570 of the old Geno thread, where upon a user questioning Fatman about why he gets so defensive about people doubting him, he then goes on a several-post spree mass quoting people who had called him out as a fraud...some of which were several months old, in rapid succession, showing he was indeed keeping tabs for a Gotcha! moment that never came. Over thirty posts were quoted from over ten users. Were some of the posts going a step too far? Yes. But not only does that fail to justify this, but most of the posts were simply...expressing doubt about Fatman's validity. IIRC Fatman got temp banned for this course of action as well.

You posted immediately after Fatman backing him up, as well, actually. So it was definitely a thing that happened.

But yeah, just wanted to clarify the event people are referring to. Had to check my post history in the thread to find it since I remembered posting there around the time lol. But what's past is past. Not trying to start anything, but just trying to explain what others meant.
 

Theguy123

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Damn, 5 more days until this thread closes. Where’s everyone heading off to after this then.

y’all be able to catch me in the social thread and the Level 5 discussion thread. Where’s everyone else heading
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Damn, 5 more days until this thread closes. Where’s everyone heading off to after this then.

y’all be able to catch me in the social thread and the Level 5 discussion thread. Where’s everyone else heading
The thread won’t close till the 21st. But yeah Sora in 5 days is hype.
 

7NATOR

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Also there is something I have to ask, when it comes to the Next Game

Who do you guys think would be the "Surprise" Character of the game? Characters like R.O.B, Duck Hunt, and Plant are these types of Characters.

The thing is that the reason these characters were chosen to be surprises likely had to do with them either having Large Legacy or perhaps more importantly, being Well-Known in some form of Fashion. As crazy as an additions these types of characters are, Duck Hunt was one of the most Well-Known NES Games, and Plant is actually among the most Iconic characters on the roster. These characters also have to be Something very different from the Cast

I'm kind of unsure what direction they would take this Archetype? Any suggestions?
 

Sucumbio

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Also there is something I have to ask, when it comes to the Next Game

Who do you guys think would be the "Surprise" Character of the game? Characters like R.O.B, Duck Hunt, and Plant are these types of Characters.

The thing is that the reason these characters were chosen to be surprises likely had to do with them either having Large Legacy or perhaps more importantly, being Well-Known in some form of Fashion. As crazy as an additions these types of characters are, Duck Hunt was one of the most Well-Known NES Games, and Plant is actually among the most Iconic characters on the roster. These characters also have to be Something very different from the Cast

I'm kind of unsure what direction they would take this Archetype? Any suggestions?
That's a tough one. In hindsight DH seems so obvious but I still marvel at his inclusion. Are we talking strictly Nintendo? I dunno.... Maybe the Powerglove or Super scope? Lol! Nah that'd be too weird...

I still think Rygar should be in smash. His discarmor would be an awesome weapon...
 

KneeOfJustice99

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Damn, 5 more days until this thread closes. Where’s everyone heading off to after this then.

y’all be able to catch me in the social thread and the Level 5 discussion thread. Where’s everyone else heading
Probably gonna become a Thread Nomad, to be honest. It's weird, thinking that this thread is gonna close... but I'm not going anywhere, to be honest.
 

Ivander

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Rayman's creator was outed as harassing and abusing fellow employees.
Was that proven? Last time I checked on the situation, both sides were adamant of the situation being true/false and there wasn't enough to confirm it true or false at the time.
 

Shroob

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Damn, 5 more days until this thread closes. Where’s everyone heading off to after this then.

y’all be able to catch me in the social thread and the Level 5 discussion thread. Where’s everyone else heading
8, the thread isn't closing until the 21st. Give the people a little time to talk about Sora and reminisce.
 

Ivander

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Also there is something I have to ask, when it comes to the Next Game

Who do you guys think would be the "Surprise" Character of the game? Characters like R.O.B, Duck Hunt, and Plant are these types of Characters.

The thing is that the reason these characters were chosen to be surprises likely had to do with them either having Large Legacy or perhaps more importantly, being Well-Known in some form of Fashion. As crazy as an additions these types of characters are, Duck Hunt was one of the most Well-Known NES Games, and Plant is actually among the most Iconic characters on the roster. These characters also have to be Something very different from the Cast

I'm kind of unsure what direction they would take this Archetype? Any suggestions?
It's hard to say. We don't know whether Sakurai will take the wheel again or not and he's mostly the one who goes for the Out-there picks, like what he did with Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., Duck Hunt and Plant. If Sakurai doesn't take the wheel again, it's hard to know whether the new director will do a "surprise" pick or not and if they do, who it would be.

Cause I mean, any character that comes from a game or game series not really active anymore, like say, Mach Rider, Takamaru, a Custom Robo, etc could count as a "surprise" pick.
 

Geno Boost

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Rayman's creator was outed as harassing and abusing fellow employees.
is it just a rumor or there is an atual evidence? that kinda reminds of the creator of Earthworm Jim situation.
if that turns out to be true nintendo were aware of it that could really damage Rayman chances for a future smash game.
Also there is something I have to ask, when it comes to the Next Game

Who do you guys think would be the "Surprise" Character of the game? Characters like R.O.B, Duck Hunt, and Plant are these types of Characters.

The thing is that the reason these characters were chosen to be surprises likely had to do with them either having Large Legacy or perhaps more importantly, being Well-Known in some form of Fashion. As crazy as an additions these types of characters are, Duck Hunt was one of the most Well-Known NES Games, and Plant is actually among the most Iconic characters on the roster. These characters also have to be Something very different from the Cast

I'm kind of unsure what direction they would take this Archetype? Any suggestions?
i guess they like exploring some concepts and playstyles that hasnt been done in smash and bring them as a surprised since no one has thought of them but still making them as fun and unique as possible.
 

SKX31

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I keep staring at it, but I don't think Sora is in this picture. Weird. I thought that was illegal.


Imo Samus has long felt the most antiquated of the original 12 compared to what their moveset could be.


I think Samus' suit would already be different if the Samus Returns remake had been a bit earlier.
Really late on this, but still (and partly to change subjects):

I don't entirely agree on the antiquated side of things: because I think the intent was to have Samus players switch between the projectile and melee side of things as needed (kinda akin to Link). Something that Metroid games like Returns and Dread have started to lean more into with the melee counter. Although I get the impression that her Smash playstyle being unorthodox doesn't help. Her playstyle is neither zoning- or melee-exclusive, whereas if one were to take advantage of the powerups and what not she'd likely be leaning either way. She being a somewhat slow and floaty heavyweight - however - that stands in direct contrast to Dread in particular.

I mean, the kicks are generally serviceable... they're just not imaginative at this point.

Basically, I find it really weird that the closest Samus has gotten to canon Metroid is her Melee incarnation... if one is really generous and including the Extended Grapple Beam and the Super (Duper) Wavedash as a Speed Booster / Ball Spark equilvalent. Yeeeeah.

extender.png

While there are a few normals that could survive (F-Air and D-Tilt are fine in concept I'd argue, and I don't mind B-Air) I'm at the position where you could change say F-Tilt into a short ranged beam shot and U-Tilt into the uppercut - and if you're looking at aerials to change my primary targets would be N-Air and D-Air as beam attacks instead.

As for the Specials... I'm not entirely sure. Missiles, Bombs and Screw Attacks feel like future mainstays. Maybe changing Charged Shot around could be the key, because then you'd have a precious move slot over for the beam-switching or whatever you'd want to do with her. And then go from there essentially.

Was that proven? Last time I checked on the situation, both sides were adamant of the situation being true/false and there wasn't enough to confirm it true or false at the time.
While nothing super-confirming or denying has come out yet, the circumstancial stuff (this departure came after a summer of allegations within Ubisoft as a corp, mid-development of BGaE2 and as multiple other senior members - including AC Valhalla's creative director - had left as a result. To the point where Ubisoft's leadership had to launch the internal investigation with "specialized external consultants".) does not help his case at all and instead give some credence to the notion that something bad happened. I'm not sure if it'll come out publicly any time soon either, but still.
 

Momotsuki

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Also there is something I have to ask, when it comes to the Next Game

Who do you guys think would be the "Surprise" Character of the game? Characters like R.O.B, Duck Hunt, and Plant are these types of Characters.

The thing is that the reason these characters were chosen to be surprises likely had to do with them either having Large Legacy or perhaps more importantly, being Well-Known in some form of Fashion. As crazy as an additions these types of characters are, Duck Hunt was one of the most Well-Known NES Games, and Plant is actually among the most Iconic characters on the roster. These characters also have to be Something very different from the Cast

I'm kind of unsure what direction they would take this Archetype? Any suggestions?
It's the only way Madotsuki wins so it's gonna be her.
Your MW having to be a WTF is a strange thing to grapple with.
 
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Ivander

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While nothing super-confirming or denying has come out yet, the circumstancial stuff (this departure came after a summer of allegations within Ubisoft as a corp, mid-development of BGaE2 and as multiple other senior members - including AC Valhalla's creative director - had left as a result. To the point where Ubisoft's leadership had to launch the internal investigation with "specialized external consultants".) does not help his case at all and instead give some credence to the notion that something bad happened. I'm not sure if it'll come out publicly any time soon either, but still.
Okay, hopefully the truth is found. Cause it's become so much more important to not have a mob mentality and find what is the truth and what's not.
 

N3ON

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Companies aren't going to ice lucrative franchises over potentially problematic creators, they're just going to reach a settlement over their departure. That's clearly what happened with Ancel. It would take something seriously illegal, so much so it would really hinder the brand, for them to discard a profitable IP.

Maybe part of the reason Rayman isn't getting games right now is because Ancel isn't there to champion him, but a bigger reason is just because Ubisoft finds more profit elsewhere.
 

ShotoStar

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Also there is something I have to ask, when it comes to the Next Game

Who do you guys think would be the "Surprise" Character of the game? Characters like R.O.B, Duck Hunt, and Plant are these types of Characters.

The thing is that the reason these characters were chosen to be surprises likely had to do with them either having Large Legacy or perhaps more importantly, being Well-Known in some form of Fashion. As crazy as an additions these types of characters are, Duck Hunt was one of the most Well-Known NES Games, and Plant is actually among the most Iconic characters on the roster. These characters also have to be Something very different from the Cast

I'm kind of unsure what direction they would take this Archetype? Any suggestions?
I dunno I'd kinda like the idea of them trying their hand at Monita (From Nintendo Land) as a WTF character, Nintendo Land is amongst the best selling Wii U games and Monita is a vital part of it (as somewhat of a logo for it) so I think it'd be recognizable to some degree and I think Monita would be a cool WTF pick giving further representation to the Wii U.

That said who really knows if we'll even get a WTF pick or Retro pick going forward, depends on who's at the helm and how different their design philosophy is from Sakurai's own assuming it's not Sakurai. Still not sure if we even got a Retro pick this game or not even at that. It all comes down to who's at the helm which I still am pretty confident on it being Sakurai given the interviews with Harada.
 

Will

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So there's going to be a Next Smash speculation thread, huh?

So what you're saying is the time for the new Scorpion shilling support thread is now mine for the taking. :iwatanod:

EDIT: I even got the framework laid down.

Sora and Doomguy getting in both make this even easier to obtain so I'm hoping I can make it fancy and get traction lol
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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Chuderz

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Uh, yes excuse.


Have you ever worked a job and then be forced to all of a sudden just, start working from home? Especially a job where you're having to work with dozens of others on a single project?


It ain't just some "Ho hum let's do it!", it's legitimately hard, even for people who were prepared, which, Japan wasn't. Again, they handled the virus about as bad as America did.
Fair and thanks for replying with an earnest response but no excuse. They planned for the cut in production before COVID. It's what they wanted to do and hey it's probably the best business decision but I still don't have to like it. You can be satisfied and rationalize it but I see it as Nintendo cheaping out or not believing in Smash or Sakurai's work. Not to mention they could actually make more from Smash if they actually supported it like the fans want with Esports circuits and seasonal updates besides just DLC but hey maybe next game. Getting two seasons was really good by Nintendo's abysmal standards.

I wanna say "don't feed the trolls," but this is fun to watch.
View attachment 333885

Do you guys think the next game will focus more on DLC?

Ultimate was already a significant step up from Smash 4 in terms of post-launch support but if Smash 6 has a lot of cuts (which, let's be honest, it will), I can see Nintendo promising DLC veterans as a way to reassure fans.
Bottom text
What a way to start my last day as a 22-year-old.
All of you on the other hand are just as toxic as you claimed I was being for simply having an opinion you didn't like. Seems like projection from people with fragile egos. Oh well. Maybe the mods will make all the things you don't like in life go away just like they do on your precious boards in your gated topics.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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All of you on the other hand are just as toxic as you claimed I was being for simply having an opinion you didn't like. Seems like projection from people with fragile egos. Oh well. Maybe the mods will make all the things you don't like in life go away just like they do on your precious boards in your gated topics.
You can’t say “you all thought I was being toxic” and then say “your only being mean because of an opinion”. That doesn’t make sense. If you insult and talk down to other people on the thread (i.e. passing off everything they say with the retort of “Nintendofan”), you aren’t going to be regarded very well.

You got treated without respect because you showed no respect.

Hell, you’re doing it this very post by implying the people cower behind the mods as if to discourage discussions and saying they have fragile egos.

Simply stop disregarding, condescending, and belittling people and this isn’t a problem.
 
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BlondeLombax

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You can’t say “you all thought I was being toxic” and then say “your only being mean because of an opinion”. That doesn’t make sense. If you insult and talk down to other people on the thread (i.e. passing off everything they say with the retort of “Nintendofan”), you aren’t going to be regarded very well.

You got treated without respect because you showed no respect.

Hell, your doing it this very post by implying the people cower behind the mods as if to discourage discussions.

Simply stop disregarding, condescending, and belittling people and this isn’t a problem.
I second this. This is precisely why such petty squabbles like Smash character debates or the console wars deserve to die in an acid vat that is coincidentally set on fire, because it just inspires people to insult the other based on baseless merits.
 

chocolatejr9

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I second this. This is precisely why such petty squabbles like Smash character debates or the console wars deserve to die in an acid vat that is coincidentally set on fire, because it just inspires people to insult the other based on baseless merits.
Would it be off-topic if I asked if lighting acid on fire was even possible? Or do I need to find a way to tie that into Smash?
 
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